Shwan PERINE`s comments regarding Natural Bodybuilding and Tom Prince.

[dorkeroo]

This thread shouldn't die.

It should be pointed out that Tom represented everything that was wrong with bodybuilding - literally every bad stereotype related to meatheads suited him perfectly.

It's people like him who get all the press and reflect the group as a whole which will keep steroids illegal and keep stereotypes alive.

If you don't want that perception of BBing to stay, why keep this thread going?

[Earl1972]

Fair enough.  Maybe the thread should die. 

don't worry only bodybuilding fans read bodybuilding boards

E

[johnnytosh]

On 1,500+ mg of test a week you would grow more than naturals by far doing nothing.  Yes, absolutely nothing, and this is scientific fact - on 600 mg a week it was proven fact by Bhasin and his colleagues in 1996, on 1,500 mg of test a week you could probably place in a local natural show doing 30 pushups a day.

You just proved that you know absolutely nothing about BB. I cant even justify wasting the time to prove you are wrong. YOUR STATEMENT is EXACTLY the reason why Tom Prince-or other enhanced BB's for that matter HATE naturals. 30 pushups ??  You are a FOOL.  STFU until you get a CLUE !!

[johnnytosh]

A few years ago when I was a loyal Flex reader, they had an article about Tom and Titus, when they were friends.  They were talking about naturals and saying it's no big deal and they wish the naturals would just leave them alone.  They made no denials they were on, but were saying they were always put down, behind their backs of course, buy naturals.  No bad mouthing just stating that all pros and top armatures use so what's the big deal.  Just leave us alone and we'll leave you alone.  I wish I'd saved the issue.  Anyone remember it?

I saw them SPEAK those words on a televsion documentary. You are exactly right. It is the NATURAL BB that start all the bullshit by slamming the juicers !!  I used to be a natural BB that was JEALOUS of the development of the juicers, so I critcized them. I DID work out VERY hard when I was natural-so I felt PROUD of myself.  Once I became a juicer-I had GREAT respect for a natural !!   

NATURALS DONT respect the juicers-that is a fact !!  While juicers START OFF respecting the NATURALS, until they start talking out their ass like MIKE C in the thread above about doing 30 pushups & winning a local title !!  That is an absurd derogatory insult towards juicers !!  And that is what Prince & Titus were talking about on the documentary. Thats how it always starts !! The natural insulting the juicer.

[UK Gold]

Nothing really prepares you for when you go on the gear. You gain more in two months than you do in a year natrually - as long as you train. All this crap about people that do loads of steroids and look like pros is just insane.

[sarcasm]

Typical juicer denial.

If you are using 1,500 mg of testosterone a week, you will grow off 30 pushups a day far and beyond any gains you could ever make naturally, regardless of what training or diet you employ.

You do realize there is scientific evidence for this right?

I guess juiced lifters want to pretend it is some special knowledge of training or nutrition which makes up the brunt of their gains.  It's just hard to accept the reality that the most significant strength and muscle gains do indeed come from an injection.

"johnnytosh" probably believes Massive G's claims of a 545lb. incline barbell press and 650 grams of protein/day diet too, hahahaha, monster delusions.

[sarcasm]

Why would he even claim that?  Your body can only process so much protein and the rest will go to waste.  It's not MG's physiology is any different than the rest of the human population.  In addition I would think if anyone even attempted to consume that much protein that they would be putting unnecessary stress on their kidneys.

he's just trying to impress the crowd over there with his DC Training bullshit, that guy is such a fucking tool but the sad thing is the way no one calls him on his obvious lies.

[johnnytosh]

Typical juicer denial.

If you are using 1,500 mg of testosterone a week, you will grow off 30 pushups a day far and beyond any gains you could ever make naturally, regardless of what training or diet you employ.

You do realize there is scientific evidence for this right?

I guess juiced lifters want to pretend it is some special knowledge of training or nutrition which makes up the brunt of their gains.  It's just hard to accept the reality that the most significant strength and muscle gains do indeed come from an injection.

Edited to add - Lastly, this whole post is in reply to Tom Prince who by the way, is smaller than I am now, someone who I would consider to be a natural with genetics that are average at best - this is after he had thousands in juice pumped into him for 18 years.  Here was a guy built off juice who wouldn't even be my size off juice saying juice is an insignificant factor!  Let alone all the larger natural (or clean) trainers on this board, e.g., True Adonis.  If Tom was standing behind True Adonis he would disappear.

I'll bust out some before and after pics of various pros on and off juice in my next thread.

Scientific evidence ??  You're insane !!  Please produce the name of 1 actual living person that has won a local title by only doing 30 push-ups / day !!  You have 6 BILLION people to pick from.  BETTER YET.... Why don't you ask professor / doctor "Bhasin & his colleagues" in your Difinitive Landmark bullshit 1996 study to PRODUCE the name of that person ??  Dr. Bhasin still has all his records, doesn't he ?
I mean it was such a scientific study..   

You always talk about scientific evidence as if you hold the trump card.

Until you produce the name of ONE PERSON that accomplished the absurd feat that you state,
THERE WAS NO STUDY !!

EVERYBODY I know that has ever won ANY title has trained their balls off. Of Course the juicer gets phonomenal gains, I never dis-agreed with that. 

For the record, I trained for 16 years natural, and at the age of 34 I juiced heavy for 1 year to win the title I won in 2000.  I juiced 1 more year after that contest & have trained the last 5 years natural !!
So I have been training natural for 21 years !!  I know what the juice can & can't do. I have always trained hard. The juice allows you to train harder..

I don't care what Tom Prince looks like now, after his illness. That wasn't the statement that I responded to.  I personally know national level heavyweights that eat 600 grams protein / day, in fact I am good friends with one...Todd Mendelson, who took 16th (SPHWT) in the nationals last year in Atlanta. I know for a fact thats how much he eats during his bulking phase. His kidneys have not exploded yet as you claim they would & he in 40 years old.

If you actually WATCHED what Tom Prince said, like I did, he simply said the Natty's should leave the juicers alone & quit with all the sour grapes. He doesn't care if someone juices or not..  It's no different than having the office GEEK go around the office telling everyone that "So & So" uses Steroids. The Natty likes to tear down the juicer-JUST LIKE I DID BEFORE I USED !!  Because I was upset I wasn't getting the gains they were.. But the Juicers never tore me down, they were too busy training.

[johnnytosh]

My point is, on hormones you will grow without training, as long as your caloric and protein intake is high.  Maybe the pushups example was a bit of a stretch, but my point is clear.

I AGREE with what you are saying, that some guys just EXPLODE from the juice, while a NATTY can do everything right & still not get good gains. ANd I don't respect people that hit the gas the first year they start training. They are mentally weak.. So were are basically in agreement... I think.

[YoungBlood]

Scientific evidence ??  You're insane !!  Please produce the name of 1 actual living person that has won a local title by only doing 30 push-ups / day !! 

MattC didn't even bring up the idea of winning a title. He just stated that there is scientific evidence saying the the average person doing thirty push-ups a day while on juice will grow more than somebody not even training. There was no mention of a BBing contest nor any placement, in the study he cited.

[toolarge4u]

natty? whos natty? With things like m1t or superdrol or pro hormones out the ass, nattys are hypocrites and nothing more. Because its not illegal yet they think they are holier then thou.

[johnnytosh]

MattC didn't even bring up the idea of winning a title. He just stated that there is scientific evidence saying the the average person doing thirty push-ups a day while on juice will grow more than somebody not even training. There was no mention of a BBing contest nor any placement, in the study he cited.

We are BOTH half right & half wrong. If you read Matts post on July 12, he cited the study that 30 push-ups would enable a person using 1500 mg /test / wk to place in a natural show. 

I mis-read that to mean winning a local title.  Obviously thre is a difference in winning a local non-tested title, compared to only placing in a natural show..  So I was wrong there. But Matt C certainly DID mention a BB contest & a Placement

[johnnytosh]

natty? whos natty? With things like m1t or superdrol or pro hormones out the ass, nattys are hypocrites and nothing more. Because its not illegal yet they think they are holier then thou.

This is true

[The True Adonis]

natty? whos natty? With things like m1t or superdrol or pro hormones out the ass, nattys are hypocrites and nothing more. Because its not illegal yet they think they are holier then thou.

I would never use that shit either. 

[jonno gb]

I would never use that shit either. 

If you take any of that you cannot be considered natural-all on the IOC banned list.

[The True Adonis]

If you take any of that you cannot be considered natural-all on the IOC banned list.

Exactly.