Bodybuilding: Can It Survive Without The Mass Monsters?

[dseiler]

It's evident that most of the fans of today's regime of bodybuilding love to see the mass monsters. The guys like Coleman and Ruhl and even Cutler who seem to pack muscle in places beyond genetic limitations. Each year the bar is pushed higher and it's obvious to reach the upper echelon of BBing you absolutely have to play the mass game.

It's also obvious for those in the know that in order to play this game, you do need to take your share of anabolics. From this, I pose you some questions.

Can bodybuilding survive a drug clean sweep? I know it's been asked before, but do you think the sport could survive if everyone was forced to train clean? Have the elite bodybuilders push the sport beyond its recovery point where you can't go backwards?

You have to think that some people will lose interest in the sport if the guys who pack on slabs of muscle are forced into strict training with no outside help and the general bodybuilding type is smaller overall. I can't see the sport changing direction anytime soon as the chemicals get more enhanced and the bodies just keep growing but I am curious what you all think. 

[Superman]

Of course natural body could survive you just got too believe.

[TheAnimal]

thats when the self-fufilling prophecy kicks in... when you believe you cannot achieve without "aids"

[Hedgehog]

Had bodybuilding remained where it was in terms of mass, cerca late 80's, it would most likely not been such an easy target.

The blame is mainly with the head judges and those in charge of NPC and IFBB (Team Manion and DeMilia).

But the media has a part in it too. MD had a Freak award at one Olympia. Kovacs was pimped by Musclemagtech in the late 90's. Rühl or Darrem Charles, we all know who has the most pro wins of these two, but who gets more publicity?

How many pro BB's are getting sponsorship deals with regular businesses today in comparison to in the late 80's? Why should you pay a BB to represent your nutrition company, when there are more attractive athletes, in PR terms, in other sports? Track and Field, Extreme sports, Ice hockey, Tennis, Golf (!), Motor Sports, Football, Ovalball...


Would bodybuilding survive without the mass monsters?

I think the question should be, can it survive WITH the mass monsters?

Bring back the physiques of Nubret, Arnold, Mentzer, Coe, Jeff King... There would be a difference. I don't think homos who wants their toyboys as big as possible should be allowed to set standards.

YIP
Zack

[njflex]

Had bodybuilding remained where it was in terms of mass, cerca late 80's, it would most likely not been such an easy target.

The blame is mainly with the head judges and those in charge of NPC and IFBB (Team Manion and DeMilia).

But the media has a part in it too. MD had a Freak award at one Olympia. Kovacs was pimped by Musclemagtech in the late 90's. Rühl or Darrem Charles, we all know who has the most pro wins of these two, but who gets more publicity?

How many pro BB's are getting sponsorship deals with regular businesses today in comparison to in the late 80's? Why should you pay a BB to represent your nutrition company, when there are more attractive athletes, in PR terms, in other sports? Track and Field, Extreme sports, Ice hockey, Tennis, Golf (!), Motor Sports, Football, Ovalball...


Would bodybuilding survive without the mass monsters?

I think the question should be, can it survive WITH the mass monsters?

Bring back the physiques of Nubret, Arnold, Mentzer, Coe, Jeff King... There would be a difference. I don't think homos who wants their toyboys as big as possible should be allowed to set standards.

YIP
Zack

TRUE,BUT C'MON these above guy's listed were all in their own right mass monster's and would be considered by some still too big,esp king his leg's are on par with the top pro's today,only difference is the advanced level of drug's just like their era had their advanced usage...

[SAMSON123]

The sport CAN NOT SURVIVE without the FREAKS...I mean...would you go to a Miss America contest or swim suit contest if the women looked no different than AVERAGE WOMEN??...You wouldn't bother, but if the women looked PHENOMENAL then you would be first on line. Well the same for sports figures and that includes BB. Personally I go to the shows and expos to see the FREAKS, then I go back to the gym crushed that my puny body looks like shit. Nonethe less the fantasy that i could get to that point by working out is what keeps me motivated and if all else fails...before I drop dead for old age I will invest in a shott or two just to know that I somewhat came close...Ha Ha

But serious ...all sports exist because the athletes in one form or another has its FREAKS in either size, ability, strength, talent etc. Without it...the sport is DEAD ON ARRIVAL.

[Bluto]

You will soon forget all about steroids and start to worry about implants and surgery.

[brianX]

The sport CAN NOT SURVIVE without the FREAKS...I mean...would you go to a Miss America contest or swim suit contest if the women looked no different than AVERAGE WOMEN??...You wouldn't bother, but if the women looked PHENOMENAL then you would be first on line. Well the same for sports figures and that includes BB. Personally I go to the shows and expos to see the FREAKS, then I go back to the gym crushed that my puny body looks like shit. Nonethe less the fantasy that i could get to that point by working out is what keeps me motivated and if all else fails...before I drop dead for old age I will invest in a shott or two just to know that I somewhat came close...Ha Ha

But serious ...all sports exist because the athletes in one form or another has its FREAKS in either size, ability, strength, talent etc. Without it...the sport is DEAD ON ARRIVAL.

Your argument is based on the assumption that it is impossible to build an impressive physique without drugs. The fact is that guys like Reg Park and Steve Reeves had fantastic physiques a full decade before steroids were first introduced. Also, some of the strongest people in the world have never used steroids. The best Olympic weightlifters would destroy any pro bodybuilder in the gym, and they're drug tested year round.

[Nordic Beast]

of course the sport will survive-people have been bondybuliding too long now for it to die completely (plus the supplement companies need someone to slang there sh*t)--but you wont see 100G prize money and full auditoriums

[HUGEPECS]

Had bodybuilding remained where it was in terms of mass, cerca late 80's, it would most likely not been such an easy target.

The blame is mainly with the head judges and those in charge of NPC and IFBB (Team Manion and DeMilia).

But the media has a part in it too. MD had a Freak award at one Olympia. Kovacs was pimped by Musclemagtech in the late 90's. Rühl or Darrem Charles, we all know who has the most pro wins of these two, but who gets more publicity?

How many pro BB's are getting sponsorship deals with regular businesses today in comparison to in the late 80's? Why should you pay a BB to represent your nutrition company, when there are more attractive athletes, in PR terms, in other sports? Track and Field, Extreme sports, Ice hockey, Tennis, Golf (!), Motor Sports, Football, Ovalball...


Would bodybuilding survive without the mass monsters?

I think the question should be, can it survive WITH the mass monsters?

Bring back the physiques of Nubret, Arnold, Mentzer, Coe, Jeff King... There would be a difference. I don't think homos who wants their toyboys as big as possible should be allowed to set standards.

YIP
Zack

I agreed with all of the Above. IF the Federation decided to abolish the current standard, that would be a first step, but seems to me that the most Fans are still in love with Mass Monsters.

[the shadow]

bodybuilding will and always b the big guys sport..the mass monsters r bodybuilding...damn how phil heath won the new york pro beating dennis james is still beyond me.....and after ronnie retires and if a fuckin aesthetic asshole wins the olympia ...BODYBUILDING IS GONNA B HISTORY...

[Joopie]

bodybuilding will and always b the big guys sport..the mass monsters r bodybuilding...damn how phil heath won the new york pro beating dennis james is still beyond me.....and after ronnie retires and if a fuckin aesthetic asshole wins the olympia ...BODYBUILDING IS GONNA B HISTORY...

Are you just suggesting that if Big Ron would get hit by a truck, "Marcus Ruhl" would commit suicide?

[SAMSON123]

Your argument is based on the assumption that it is impossible to build an impressive physique without drugs. The fact is that guys like Reg Park and Steve Reeves had fantastic physiques a full decade before steroids were first introduced. Also, some of the strongest people in the world have never used steroids. The best Olympic weightlifters would destroy any pro bodybuilder in the gym, and they're drug tested year round.

Oh I certainly am not saying or assuming that a decent body can not be attained by working out, eating and taking a few supplements(not steroids). What a person will NOT be able to attain is a RONNIE, JAY, GUNTER etc type of body without roids. Now even in its natural day bodybuilders often had to do more than just stand on stage and pose...most bodybuilders were also strong men and had to do FEATS OF STRENGTH to hold a crowd. TOday bodybuilders have to be SIZE FREAKS to keep the crowds attention and interest.

So far as any olympic weight lifter destroying a pro bodybuilder...We have gone through this argument too many times on this board for this to even be brough up again, but since you have. A bodybuilders goals are not a olympic lifters goal and vice versa. Not a single olympic lifter would have the esthetics to stand on a stage for a minute without being BOOED off, if it was about appearance. BB on the other hand are not into trying to lift massive amouts of weight for only ONE REP. So once the difference between BB and Olympic lifters is understaood (I hope you understand now) then these comparisons/arguments (as mindless as I find them) can come to a stop.

For the record though RONNIE COLEMAN with 800+ pound squats, 800+ pound deadlifts and 500+ pound benches would certainly give any powerlifter or olympic lifter a RUN FOR HIS MONEY...even though that is not Ronnies intention. So far as your argument on some of the strongest people having never used steroids....only a FOOL BELIEVES THAT!!!

Every sport is innundated with steroids today as it has been for some years now. Boxing, wrestling, hockey, powerlifting/strongman events, track and field, gymnastics, cyclist, football, ultimate fighting, HELL... BALLET MAY HAVE  ROID USERS..

Forget the fantasy dude... Everyone juices in sports to one level or another.

[candidate2025]

"ironage" physiques are lame.....theres nothing entertaining or worth while about watching a man with an attainable muscular build pose in a thong. thats just gay....but when the man is a pure monster, like rhul, coleman, or cutler, then its just awe-inspiring...not in the least bit faggish.

[Miss Karen]

Does health come into it??.

[IceCold]

"ironage" physiques are lame.....theres nothing entertaining or worth while about watching a man with an attainable muscular build pose in a thong. thats just gay....but when the man is a pure monster, like rhul, coleman, or cutler, then its just awe-inspiring...not in the least bit faggish.

very well put.


fans of every sport want to see the best.  that's why amateur organizations and minor leagues, whether it be area and european football, mma, baseball, baseketball, etc. dont even compare to the professional ranks.  people want to see what the best is.

also, whoever said that phsyiques like arnold, nubret, etc. were attainable?  the reason that bbing was more popular in the 70's is bc it was practically brand new.  it had nothing to do with the fact that the body of arnold is more attainable than the body or ronnie.  you think people in the 70's thought that they could look like arnold? arnold was the ronnie of his day.    that was the first time, in the 70's, that bbing was on tv, in the media (pumping iron).  after that, the novelty wore off and only the true fans of bbing remained.  the more unattainable the phsique, the better it will be.  more fans will want to see that than some mo that practically anyone with decent genetics and a good work ethic could look like.

[timfogarty]

The fact is that guys like Reg Park and Steve Reeves had fantastic physiques a full decade before steroids were first introduced.

steroids were around during the time of Reeves and Park.   Test esters were available.   Reeves' Mr A was probably drug free.   Park I doubt.

Also, some of the strongest people in the world have never used steroids. The best Olympic weightlifters would destroy any pro bodybuilder in the gym, and they're drug tested year round.

not too many people with any knowledge of the sport believe that Olympic athletes are truley life time drug free.

[timfogarty]

"ironage" physiques are lame.....theres nothing entertaining or worth while about watching a man with an attainable muscular build pose in a thong. thats just gay....but when the man is a pure monster, like rhul, coleman, or cutler, then its just awe-inspiring...not in the least bit faggish.

yes, you can see at any gym physiques similar to the top physiques of the 1960s and early 1970s.  but there is a big difference between that and the physiques of the late 1970s and early 1980s.  You don't see those type of physiques hardly anywhere today.  That's because even top amateur bodybuilders aren't willing to go without their GH and insulin.   

no one is saying to go back to the 1950s or 1960s.  we are saying to put the emphasis back on symmetry and proportionality.  the way to do that is to get rid of the GH and insulin.   They'd still be plenty big, just not the mass monsters.

[brianX]

"ironage" physiques are lame.....theres nothing entertaining or worth while about watching a man with an attainable muscular build pose in a thong. thats just gay....but when the man is a pure monster, like rhul, coleman, or cutler, then its just awe-inspiring...not in the least bit faggish.

Shut the fuck up, you delusional little shit. The physiques built by the likes of Bill Pearl, George Eiferman, and Reg Park during the pre-steroid era are not "attainable" for the vast majority of drug free lifters. It takes a huge amount of back-breaking work with heavy weights to get that big naturally. Reg Park bench pressed 500 lb in 1953. Marvin Eder did weighted dips with 400 lb around his waist and could overhead press 315 for reps. Most of those "faggish" IronAge bodybuilders were incredibly strong, and would crush your marshmallow ass in the gym.

[MCWAY]

"ironage" physiques are lame.....theres nothing entertaining or worth while about watching a man with an attainable muscular build pose in a thong. thats just gay....but when the man is a pure monster, like rhul, coleman, or cutler, then its just awe-inspiring...not in the least bit faggish.

Then, let's see you attain a physique like that, say, Bill Pearl in his prime, 5'10", 241 lbs. ripped (at least, ripped by 1970s standards).

Furthermore, I don't see the reason for all the fuss. This ridiculous "us vs. them" mentality is yet another reason why bodybuilding has floundered in attempts to reach a bigger audience. Where does it state that a "mass monster" has to look six months pregnant, or have his physique resemble a jigsaw puzzle of bodyparts from different people?

Part of the problem is that certain bodybuilders are trying to weigh 300 lbs, when they're 5'7" or shorter. You can be big AND aesthetic. That's how Lee Haney got the nickname, "the Awesome One". Other examples include former WBF Champion Gary Strydom, 2001 USA Champion Quincy Taylor, and 2002 National Champion Toney Freeman.

They're all HUGE, plus, they have great proportions and aesthetics to their builds.

[MCWAY]

bodybuilding will and always b the big guys sport..the mass monsters r bodybuilding...damn how phil heath won the new york pro beating dennis james is still beyond me.....and after ronnie retires and if a fuckin aesthetic asshole wins the olympia ...BODYBUILDING IS GONNA B HISTORY...

Heath beating James is hardly a surprise. Darrem Charles has beaten him, too, as well as bigger bodybuilders like Markus Ruhl, Chris Cormier, Art Atwood, Quincy Taylor, etc.