"Adonis has almost pro-size mass"

[danielson]

Look, I may be new here, but I've trained for years at some of the largest bodybuilding gyms in the USA... And I'm a top amateur competitor myself. The way I see things, Adonis doesn't need to prove anything to you, and you'd be losing $2500 by betting against him. That's too much money to just throw away on a misplaced bet. Your friend is nothing special, I routinely see guys bigger and better than he is. Hell, he's skinnier than a European fashion model! Adonis, on the other hand, has a very good natural physique... he may have some structural flaws (such as triceps and forearms) but, on the whole, is far superior to 'the meat'. I actually think that Adonis stands a pretty good chance of placing very highly here.
Give it up, Danielson.

It may be worth noting that interest in the Mr. Getbig is high even among people who don't normally post on internet forums. Should be a cool contest. 

Thank you for your insight, like I said, the photos would be "recent", I never said when those shots were taken. Adonis, it looks like you should be able to win 2500 easily, according to that guy.

[Maldoror]

I might add that with $2500 on the line, most people would be sorely tempted to run a cycle or two... It may not be entirely honorable, but nobody wants to lose money like that.

[danielson]

I might add that with $2500 on the line, most people would be sorely tempted to run a cycle or two... It may not be entirely honorable, but nobody wants to lose money like that.

very good point. there would be just enough time to do one. The bet would be more feasible a week or 2 out, huh?

[danielson]

I might add that with $2500 on the line, most people would be sorely tempted to run a cycle or two... It may not be entirely honorable, but nobody wants to lose money like that.

hey Maldador, I know you are more knowledgeable than me, but seriously, you really think meat has "average" legs? They look fuckin huge in person.

[The True Adonis]

hey Maldador, I know you are more knowledgeable than me, but seriously, you really think meat has "average" legs? They look fuckin huge in person.

Huge is a relative term to whoever is the observer.  You apparently thought your friend was huge.

I hear people say this all the time.  "Man he is huge".  Well huge compared to what?

[The True Adonis]

Look, I may be new here, but I've trained for years at some of the largest bodybuilding gyms in the USA... And I'm a top amateur competitor myself. The way I see things, Adonis doesn't need to prove anything to you, and you'd be losing $2500 by betting against him. That's too much money to just throw away on a misplaced bet. Your friend is nothing special, I routinely see guys bigger and better than he is. Hell, he's skinnier than a European fashion model! Adonis, on the other hand, has a very good natural physique... he may have some structural flaws (such as triceps and forearms) but, on the whole, is far superior to 'the meat'. I actually think that Adonis stands a pretty good chance of placing very highly here.
Give it up, Danielson.

It may be worth noting that interest in the Mr. Getbig is high even among people who don't normally post on internet forums. Should be a cool contest. 

Thank you for the kind words!
Which organization do you compete in? NPC.

Somebody should get you some blue stars!

[danielson]

Huge is a relative term to whoever is the observer.  You apparently thought your friend was huge.

I hear people say this all the time.  "Man he is huge".  Well huge compared to what?

His legs have always been huge, imo. 30 inch quads, thats big right? we betting or not?

[Maldoror]

hey Maldador, I know you are more knowledgeable than me, but seriously, you really think meat has "average" legs? They look fuckin huge in person.

They're certainly a hell of a lot larger than the legs of an average gym-rat, and they're clearly a standout bodypart for him... But, from what little I've seen, I'd have to say that they'd look rather average next to the legs of a decent NPC competitor. If he's natural, he's done a pretty good job with them, that's for sure...


...But that's also a sort of 'Catch 22' --- his legs overpower his upper body somewhat, which makes him look narrow. Bodybuilding is all about balance, bro. I once had a friend who had massive quads -- quads that, from the side, wouldn't look out of place on a goddamn T-Rex -- they were so massive, in fact, that his upper-body (which was decent) looked really small and out-of-place sitting on top of it. Needless to say, he never did well in competiton...

[The True Adonis]

They're certainly a hell of a lot larger than the legs of an average gym-rat, and they're clearly a standout bodypart for him... But, from what little I've seen, I'd have to say that they'd look rather average next to the legs of a decent NPC competitor. If he's natural, he's done a pretty good job with them, that's for sure...


...But that's also a sort of 'Catch 22' --- his legs overpower his upper body somewhat, which makes him look narrow. Bodybuilding is all about balance, bro. I once had a friend who had massive quads -- quads that, from the side, wouldn't look out of place on a goddamn T-Rex -- they were so massive, in fact, that his upper-body (which was decent) looked really small and out-of-place sitting on top of it. Needless to say, he never did well in competiton...

ala` Tom Platz.  Memorable Legs, Forgettable Upperbody.

[danielson]

ala` Tom Platz.  Memorable Legs, Forgettable Upperbody.

yep, we called him Platz in high school, he actually can't train them very often, they grow too easily.

[Maldoror]

Thank you for the kind words!
Which organization do you compete in? NPC.

Somebody should get you some blue stars!

Thanks, bro.  I don't want the stars, though... They'd just make me feel considerably less comfortable when giving out steroid-related information and discussing cycles. I'd prefer to remain incognito for the time being
You're doing real well, by the way...

[The True Adonis]

Thanks, bro.  I don't want the stars, though... They'd just make me feel considerably less comfortable when giving out steroid-related information and discussing cycles. I'd prefer to remain incognito for the time being
You're doing real well, by the way...

Its taken me a good while.  I know I still need a lot of work and will improve, no matter what.  I figure I can only go forward, not backwards.

[Jezebelle]

lol beat the meat

[Maldoror]

Its taken me a good while.  I know I still need a lot of work and will improve, no matter what.  I figure I can only go forward, not backwards.

Right, bro. The way I see things, you can only work with the hand you're dealt... and you've done a real good job with it so far. (As a natural.)
Very few people here, I think, can imagine the work I had to put in to overcome my own genetic shortcomings. That's the hardest part about bodybuilding -- not the endless eating, not the injections, but the struggle against your own body's 'setpoint' and it's genetic flaws. They can be corrected, but only at a very great cost of blood, sweat and tears. (And tendonitis, which I personally have had to deal with more than a dozen times... )

Here's my two cents, for what little it's worth: After the contest, take 6 months and hit your 'problem' areas with all you've got -- force them to become your best bodyparts. It's possible, believe me. Perform maintainance-only work on the rest of your body. Once you've done that, resume training as usual -- your 'good', genetically-blessed bodyparts, will soon stand out once again... and will look that much better due to better overall balance.

Another thing: If you ever want to turn to the 'dark side' -- and you should consider it eventually as you could probably go far -- I'd be very glad to help you, inasmuch as I can.

[The True Adonis]

Right, bro. The way I see things, you can only work with the hand you're dealt... and you've done a real good job with it so far. (As a natural.)
Very few people here, I think, can imagine the work I had to put in to overcome my own genetic shortcomings. That's the hardest part about bodybuilding -- not the endless eating, not the injections, but the struggle against your own body's 'setpoint' and it's genetic flaws. They can be corrected, but only at a very great cost of blood, sweat and tears. (And tendonitis, which I personally have had to deal with more than a dozen times... )

Here's my two cents, for what little it's worth: After the contest, take 6 months and hit your 'problem' areas with all you've got -- force them to become your best bodyparts. It's possible, believe me. Perform maintainance-only work on the rest of your body. Once you've done that, resume training as usual -- your 'good', genetically-blessed bodyparts, will soon stand out once again... and will look that much better due to better overall balance.

Another thing: If you ever want to turn to the 'dark side' -- and you should consider it eventually as you could probably go far -- I'd be very glad to help you, inasmuch as I can.

I have never specifically focused on a weak group yet.  I have trained everything in an equal manner.  I have given it a lot of though to do what you suggested and I think I will do that after all of this.

I may throw in a twice a week for some bodyparts.  I appreciate the response.  Do you think I should stay really lean? 

[natural al]

Right, bro. The way I see things, you can only work with the hand you're dealt... and you've done a real good job with it so far. (As a natural.)
Very few people here, I think, can imagine the work I had to put in to overcome my own genetic shortcomings. That's the hardest part about bodybuilding -- not the endless eating, not the injections, but the struggle against your own body's 'setpoint' and it's genetic flaws. They can be corrected, but only at a very great cost of blood, sweat and tears. (And tendonitis, which I personally have had to deal with more than a dozen times... )

Here's my two cents, for what little it's worth: After the contest, take 6 months and hit your 'problem' areas with all you've got -- force them to become your best bodyparts. It's possible, believe me. Perform maintainance-only work on the rest of your body. Once you've done that, resume training as usual -- your 'good', genetically-blessed bodyparts, will soon stand out once again... and will look that much better due to better overall balance.

Another thing: If you ever want to turn to the 'dark side' -- and you should consider it eventually as you could probably go far -- I'd be very glad to help you, inasmuch as I can.

I've been following BB along time, I'm not a national level guy or anything but I think I have a decent eye as far as evaluating a guy's physique.  Tell me what you see in TA's build that has you so impressed, cause maybe you're seeing something I'm not. 

[Maldoror]

I have never specifically focused on a weak group yet.  I have trained everything in an equal manner.  I have given it a lot of though to do what you suggested and I think I will do that after all of this.

I may throw in a twice a week for some bodyparts.  I appreciate the response.  Do you think I should stay really lean? 

Yeah, just give it some consideration. I think you'll be happy with the results if you give it a shot...
As for training specific bodyparts twice a week, I always train calves, forearms, lower-back and hamstrings in that manner. They're not weak points, though -- they just respond better to twice a week training... Experimenting with it might be a good idea.

Your last question is a tough one, though, as I don't really know how easy (or difficult) it is for you to shed fat. Generally speaking, it's okay to fatten up a bit, but don't 'let yourself go' completely. I know that certain pros do, but chemical assistance renders it far easier for them to burn fat than would 'naturally' be possible. Although, as previously mentioned, it really depends on your metabolism, I would advise you not to exceed 14% BF...
...But you probably know better than I do. Listen to your body and your conscience.

I've been following BB along time, I'm not a national level guy or anything but I think I have a decent eye as far as evaluating a guy's physique.  Tell me what you see in TA's build that has you so impressed, cause maybe you're seeing something I'm not. 

Look at the most recent pictures he posted. Imagine him with just 1 more inch on his triceps and forearms, and an additional 0.5" of chest depth... He'd be extremely massive and impressive for a natural bodybuilder then, wouldn't you say? He's already doing damn good for a natural, and he has all the genetic tools to go far, including very noteworthy strength. To take things to the next level, he needs to bring up his balance and turn his weaknesses into strengths. It's eminently possible, and I'm sure that he shall. (This, by the way, is what seperates the champions from the wanna-bes. People who say that bodybuilding is all drugs have clearly never had to strive to build a massive, balanced physique. It's a lot harder than most people think.)
Most importantly, perhaps: He has very good muscle insertion points (especially in the lats, pecs, biceps), and therefore lots of room to 'fill out' even further. You can build a great physique with short muscles -- look at Al Beckles, for example -- but it's much easier when you have favorable insertion points.

The bottom line: Adonis oozes potential.

[natural al]

adonis has a big frame...so did katz.  I think he has good bi's but that's about it.  I don't find his chest to be very impressive, tri's and forearms look real small.  Even though he looks like he has a large frame his shoulders look narrow to me in the front double bi, maybe he's not hitting it the right way.  I can only think of one pic that shows his back...the naked one and it didn't seem to have alot of depth to me, his lats look narrow in the front double bi...again, maybe he's hitting it wrong, seems to me he's drawing his shoulders up and in.  I've never seen his legs especially not the calves.  I don't even think his shoulders look very big or seperated.  Is the potential there to be big?  Probably but the structure is way to screwed up to me.  If TA is so confident, I'm sure there are some natural shows about the same time as the getbig contest, since you're gonna be so perfect why not enter them?

[The True Adonis]

Yeah, just give it some consideration. I think you'll be happy with the results if you give it a shot...
As for training specific bodyparts twice a week, I always train calves, forearms, lower-back and hamstrings in that manner. They're not weak points, though -- they just respond better to twice a week training... Experimenting with it might be a good idea.

Your last question is a tough one, though, as I don't really know how easy (or difficult) it is for you to shed fat. Generally speaking, it's okay to fatten up a bit, but don't 'let yourself go' completely. I know that certain pros do, but chemical assistance renders it far easier for them to burn fat than would 'naturally' be possible. Although, as previously mentioned, it really depends on your metabolism, I would advise you not to exceed 14% BF...
...But you probably know better than I do. Listen to your body and your conscience.

Look at the most recent pictures he posted. Imagine him with just 1 more inch on his triceps and forearms, and an additional 0.5" of chest depth... He'd be extremely massive and impressive for a natural bodybuilder then, wouldn't you say? He's already doing damn good for a natural, and he has all the genetic tools to go far, including very noteworthy strength. To take things to the next level, he needs to bring up his balance and turn his weaknesses into strengths. It's eminently possible, and I'm sure that he shall. (This, by the way, is what seperates the champions from the wanna-bes. People who say that bodybuilding is all drugs have clearly never had to strive to build a massive, balanced physique. It's a lot harder than most people think.)
Most importantly, perhaps: He has very good muscle insertion points (especially in the lats, pecs, biceps), and therefore lots of room to 'fill out' even further. You can build a great physique with short muscles -- look at Al Beckles, for example -- but it's much easier when you have favorable insertion points.

The bottom line: Adonis oozes potential.

I lose bodyfat VERY quickly with no cardio at all.  I force myself to gain weight and actually am kind of sick of doing that because there comes a point when the weight is just pure fat.  You really cannot rush a growing muscle.  

What is your opinion on a bulk phase for 4 weeks followed by a cut phase and so on in the offseason?

[natural al]

I lose bodyfat VERY quickly with no cardio at all.  I force myself to gain weight and actually am kind of sick of doing that because there comes a point when the weight is just pure fat.  You really cannot rush a growing muscle.  

What is your opinion on a bulk phase for 4 weeks followed by a cut phase and so on in the offseason?

you take 2 steps forward and then 2 steps back.....

[The True Adonis]

you take 2 steps forward and then 2 steps back.....

Im not so sure about that. ARe you "DC" eating and do you really think it works and that you can "rush" a natural muscle gain?

I do not.

[I ETA PI]

you take 2 steps forward and then 2 steps back.....

That's a great way to make progress.  

Is this "new math?"

[The True Adonis]

I also find it interesting what people who really know bodybuilding have to say:

http://ironage.us/yabbse/index.php?topic=13818.0


Getting an honest assessment that isn`t biased can be tough. 

[I ETA PI]

I also find it interesting what people who really know bodybuilding have to say:

http://ironage.us/yabbse/index.php?topic=13818.0


Getting an honest assessment that isn`t biased can be tough. 

It must feel so good to be "accepted."  Especially for someone so dependant on other's acceptance.

[natural al]

Im not so sure about that. ARe you "DC" eating and do you really think it works and that you can "rush" a natural muscle gain?

I do not.

honest to God, I started DC training in about July of 2004 at a weight of 194lbs, I'm not super tall.  By about the end of August I was up to 211.  All I did was eat protien, never rinsed my beef, never took in olive oil, just protien, protien, protien.  Every 2 hours.  I HAD to stop due to a family tragedy and I just started back up a few weeks ago.  I didn't have my BF checked but I don't think I put on a ton of fat as I ate pretty clean, my waist got bigger but I did NO cadio.  Right now I'm eating pretty much only protien, monday-saturday and then sunday I load up to restore glycogen.  I just started this so I don't know if it will work.

I think DC is a very effective program, especially in as far as getting stronger.  I just started at powerhouse a month ago and I'm already using the 120's for about 14 reps rest paused.  I know you have issues with Dante and that's fine but as far as how effective the actual program is, I'd say very.

That's a great way to make progress.  

Is this "new math?"

that's a great way to pay attention to what was said.  You see ta asked if someone thought doing a bulking phase followed by a cut phase was a good idea and I said "you take 2 steps forward then take 2 steps back" meaning it was not effective...maybe that was over your head?