Author Topic: Vince Taylor out of the PDI & into the Olympia (Read 177899 times)

jwb · « **Reply #275 on:** July 17, 2006, 11:06:46 PM »

That contract ain't worth shit.

Basically wayne is saying he doesn't mind if vince DOES compete in the IFBB but DOES mind if he doesn't compete in the PDI.

How will the PDI look to the fans if wayne sues vince, a guy struggling to make ends meet apparently, for damages when he is only looking out for himself and his family?

Wayne won't sue vince no way in the world becuase nobody else will defect if he does...

Chick · « **Reply #276 on:** July 17, 2006, 11:09:29 PM »

"must show adequate reason to not compete..."

Talk about open ended...! Adequate to who?

240 is Back · « **Reply #277 on:** July 17, 2006, 11:11:58 PM »

Quote from: Chick on July 17, 2006, 11:09:29 PM

"must show adequate reason to not compete..."

Talk about open ended...! Adequate to who?

Too bad you weren't this flippant about contractual language when Lee decided not to do the O last year

Vince B · « **Reply #278 on:** July 17, 2006, 11:13:55 PM »

At least Chick responded to some of the things I have written here. Let's get something straight. This is a discussion board and many are voicing opinions about various aspects and organizations in the sport of bodybuilding.

The IFBB doesn't just run professional contests. They are supposed to represent anyone who wants to compete in their contests. Only members of organizations can effect changes there. Sometimes it helps to say things and criticize an organization and individuals so that others will make those changes or at least consider them. Why does anyone assume the IFBB is correct or has the best organization or anything like that? If they were doing things right there wouldn't be so much controversy in their contests.

I am interested in discussing what is best for the bodybuilders and bodybuilding. It is up to individuals in the IFBB to decide where to take that organization. If I had my way I would get rid of the whole shebang and start again. Everything. How can you change a group that has a lifetime president? Answer? With great difficulty. That is exactly what we find here. You are taking heaps of knocks and you are not the IFBB but only a representative of some bodybuilders. However, you seem to defend the IFBB and that is why you continue to get the heat.

What is this nonsense of only one person being unimportant in the IFBB. The president in only one person but look at how much power he has. If you require many voices then the meek will never inherit what is their due. Everyone will refrain from making any criticism because they know what happens to those who do. They place 8th! That is a convenient way to dismiss individuals. "Nice point, Lee, but you are the only one who wants that." What about the justice of what he desires? Namely to be able to make money as a professional doing whatever shows he likes both for posing and competing.

You know, this is all a bunch of crap. Ever since we had professional organizations the sport has gone downhill. Most of us competed just for trophies and titles. As soon as there was prize money all manner of stuff started happening. Loyalty and all that stuff. Can you imagine a tennis player having to be loyal to Wimbleton just to be able to play there? It is preposterous. Instead of our sport growing it has decayed into a sideshow.

Let's talk about some of those majority decisions. Most of the women bodybuilders would support letting women have breast implants. However, by allowing them to have them many have been able to do all manner of things to their bodies and still retain a certain female look because they have breasts. That allowed most to use drugs and develop very muscular bodies. While many are certainly impressive the look is hardly what is approved of by most people who witness these contests or see photos of them.

Another majority decision would be using drugs. Most top bodybuilders would support being able to use anabolic steroids, etc., and other substances to help them look ripped. That many would vote to support those substances is surely what has tainted the sport and makes the whole activity seem underground. Every other sport has drug testing and they are strict about it. Bodybuilding? It is a joke. You don't need to be in the IFBB or a rep to know what is killing the sport.

In our modern world people are hungry for entertainment. However, they will hardly want to look at contests that portray cheaters and drug users. I won't even talk about synthol or inserts. If you get back to the basics and reward pure bodybuilding then it should be clear what has to be done.

The problem that the IFBB had in the past was finding a way to attract and then keep enough bodybuilders to make a viable organization. The AAU and NAABA were top organizations long ago. Other organizations popped up but the IFBB had the show that everyone wanted to win. The Olympia was that show. Eventually they made rules to stop anyone from competing in other shows. Next we heard about contracts? Why on earth do you need contracts? Well, it all smacks of a business. That is what we are hearing here on this forum.

Vince Basile, IFBB Mr Canada 1970

Chick · « **Reply #279 on:** July 17, 2006, 11:20:01 PM »

Quote from: 240 is Back on July 17, 2006, 11:11:58 PM

Too bad you weren't this flippant about contractual language when Lee decided not to do the O last year

If Lee had made mention to me that he had a problem PRIOR to bailing out of the Olympia ...I couldv'e looked into it. He said he read it, understood it, signed it, and sent it in...THEN he changed his mind.

He must not have too big an issue with it, as he has stated he want'd to enter THIS years Olympia with the SAME contract

240 is Back · « **Reply #280 on:** July 17, 2006, 11:24:27 PM »

Bob, I made sense for the first time ever, and you wouldn't answer. I'm a little bummed:

IMO, part of the atheltes rep job is to put it in writing, go over it with the lawyer, and submit it. Then, if and when it's rejected, go to your lawyer and ask what can be done to change the rule. If necessary, you sue the IFBB for limiting its athletes' earning power in a non-salaried sport.

240 is Back · « **Reply #281 on:** July 17, 2006, 11:27:07 PM »

Quote from: Chick on July 17, 2006, 11:20:01 PM

If Lee had made mention to me that he had a problem PRIOR to bailing out of the Olympia ...I couldv'e looked into it. He said he read it, understood it, signed it, and sent it in...THEN he changed his mind.

Didn't Vince also read/understand/sign/send in a contract? Did he skip the 'send it in' step? I thought Wayne's statement said a contract was in place?

Chick · « **Reply #282 on:** July 17, 2006, 11:32:38 PM »

Quote from: 240 is Back on July 17, 2006, 11:24:27 PM

Bob, I made sense for the first time ever, and you wouldn't answer. I'm a little bummed:

IMO, part of the atheltes rep job is to put it in writing, go over it with the lawyer, and submit it. Then, if and when it's rejected, go to your lawyer and ask what can be done to change the rule. If necessary, you sue the IFBB for limiting its athletes' earning power in a non-salaried sport.

You make NO sense because you don't have any idea of what you're commenting on...

What lawyer? You think the athletes will "pitch in" to hire a lawyer...lolol.

I haven't even submitted my request at this time to ammend the ruling of making non-sanctioned appearances.... to be accepted I hope.

avesher · « **Reply #283 on:** July 17, 2006, 11:33:06 PM »

note to self----keep mouth shut and stay out of anything

Chick · « **Reply #284 on:** July 17, 2006, 11:34:18 PM »

Quote from: 240 is Back on July 17, 2006, 11:27:07 PM

Didn't Vince also read/understand/sign/send in a contract? Did he skip the 'send it in' step? I thought Wayne's statement said a contract was in place?

Not my job to look into PDI contracts...

honest · « **Reply #285 on:** July 17, 2006, 11:51:50 PM »

Who really cares pro bodybuilding is fuckin ridiculous, Chic you represnt athletes that dont get paid or if they do in the scope of proffesional sports fuck all, and most other sportsmen dont have to stick half their winning in thier arse, your an unpaid rep, are you really that wealthy you can afford to do the job for nothing, or reality is with it being charity your the only idiot whos giving it time, if the rep was paid position youd be gone, but as your such an attention whore, your willing to do it as it gets you out there because your physique clearly aint good enough to talk about and those also ran would be pros in the PDI, heres a scoop for you, they would more than likely give you a run for your money based on your last show.

D-Ray · « **Reply #286 on:** July 17, 2006, 11:53:39 PM »

I think most are missing the point on this, the sadest part of this whole thing is that two people in a relationship had to break it off because one was afraid of being blackballed out of her profession. What type of profession is that and who would want to be part of it? If I worked for Fed Ex and married a woman who worked at UPS, would I be fired? No, so why is it any different here.

Before Titus went crazy, he used to talk about this same thing where his comments were going to be held against Kelly and her placings. I guess the IFBB just wants to show who has the power! I hate it for Lee and Adela. They seemed so much in love in the interviews in MD and on his reality DVDs. Don't worry Lee, I've got huge respect for a person that speaks their mind and doesn't fear the consequences. I will continue to buy your DVDs no matter where you compete or even if you do. As a person who loves the art of bodybuilding and competing against my self to outdo my previous best condition and placing, I feel the exact opposite about the business side of it.

Why would anyone want to put theirselves through this BS and end up like Lee and Adela? Maybe to end up in the top spots like Ronnie and Jay, but that's two out of how many? I would like to see year-end earnings of every IFBB pro from last year. Every fan would be amazed and I guarantee very few people would take the same risks to turn pro that they are right now. As for Bob Chick, you are in a position that doesn't come with a salary, the people you represent don't respect the postion as evidenced by the turnout at athletes' meetings, and a postion that the IFBB doesn't respect as evidenced by your comment that Lee's request would fall on deaf ears.

You are however an sponsored athlete of AMI, who own the IFBB right? I know the Weiders are still supposed to be in charge, but come on Bob. As much as I will continue to support Lee by buying his DVD's and such, I won't come near anything that supports you. I don't even shop at Bodybuilding.com anymore. You have won one pro show, masters at that, and used to make fun of other pro's in the pages of Flex magazine. And somehow, someone put you in the position to represent those same athletes. Go figure

Vince G, CSN MFT · « **Reply #287 on:** July 18, 2006, 04:02:27 AM »

Quote from: 240 is Back on July 17, 2006, 11:24:27 PM

Bob, I made sense for the first time ever, and you wouldn't answer. I'm a little bummed:

IMO, part of the atheltes rep job is to put it in writing, go over it with the lawyer, and submit it. Then, if and when it's rejected, go to your lawyer and ask what can be done to change the rule. If necessary, you sue the IFBB for limiting its athletes' earning power in a non-salaried sport.

I'll answer this for Bob because its obvious.

The IFBB Athletes Rep does not get paid for his work. Therefore in order to hire a lawyer, other people would need to chip in with the money. Filing a lawsuit would be fruitless as well. The IFBB is a business and its board of directors set the rules in place making it unlikely to be successful. A lawyer would not even touch the case.

littleguns · « **Reply #288 on:** July 18, 2006, 06:41:19 AM »

Vince,

I wold love to see your business card:

Vince Goodrum
Attorney at Law
Certified Nutritionist
COmpetitive Bodybuilder
Security Guard
Magic Stick/ Bee Pollen Expert
Poet Laureate/Scribe
Mouth piece for the IFBB
"you name it, I am it!"

You Da Man!

bestposer1 · « **Reply #289 on:** July 18, 2006, 06:58:44 AM »

Quote from: jwb on July 17, 2006, 08:08:57 PM

I think when they send in their money for the card each year they sign something binding them the the IFBB pro division.

Chick is this true? Because if not, essentially a bodybuilder is a contractor and free to compete wherever he wants and 14:9 would get struck down in court correct?

Lee_a_priest · « **Reply #290 on:** July 18, 2006, 07:02:41 AM »

Quote from: Chick on July 17, 2006, 11:20:01 PM

If Lee had made mention to me that he had a problem PRIOR to bailing out of the Olympia ...I couldv'e looked into it. He said he read it, understood it, signed it, and sent it in...THEN he changed his mind.

He must not have too big an issue with it, as he has stated he want'd to enter THIS years Olympia with the SAME contract

Bob i contacted the man in charge Robin Chang and got no response. If i remeber correctly, i did mention it Bob, maybe even on the radio show. You said you had not yet seen the contract and would take a look at it remember AND NEVER GOT BACK TO ME. But i don't blmae you - even the IFBB pro division leader Jim Manion didn't even know what was in it the Day of the show when i spoke to him.

Lee

Lee_a_priest · « **Reply #291 on:** July 18, 2006, 07:07:21 AM »

Quote from: D-Ray on July 17, 2006, 11:53:39 PM

I think most are missing the point on this, the sadest part of this whole thing is that two people in a relationship had to break it off because one was afraid of being blackballed out of her profession. What type of profession is that and who would want to be part of it? If I worked for Fed Ex and married a woman who worked at UPS, would I be fired? No, so why is it any different here. Before Titus went crazy, he used to talk about this same thing where his comments were going to be held against Kelly and her placings. I guess the IFBB just wants to show who has the power! I hate it for Lee and Adela. They seemed so much in love in the interviews in MD and on his reality DVDs. Don't worry Lee, I've got huge respect for a person that speaks their mind and doesn't fear the consequences. I will continue to buy your DVDs no matter where you compete or even if you do. As a person who loves the art of bodybuilding and competing against my self to outdo my previous best condition and placing, I feel the exact opposite about the business side of it. Why would anyone want to put theirselves through this BS and end up like Lee and Adela? Maybe to end up in the top spots like Ronnie and Jay, but that's two out of how many? I would like to see year-end earnings of every IFBB pro from last year. Every fan would be amazed and I guarantee very few people would take the same risks to turn pro that they are right now. As for Bob Chick, you are in a position that doesn't come with a salary, the people you represent don't respect the postion as evidenced by the turnout at athletes' meetings, and a postion that the IFBB doesn't respect as evidenced by your comment that Lee's request would fall on deaf ears. You are however an sponsored athlete of AMI, who own the IFBB right? I know the Weiders are still supposed to be in charge, but come on Bob. As much as I will continue to support Lee by buying his DVD's and such, I won't come near anything that supports you. I don't even shop at Bodybuilding.com anymore. You have won one pro show, masters at that, and used to make fun of other pro's in the pages of Flex magazine. And somehow, someone put you in the position to represent those same athletes. Go figure

Nice post thank you.I hope you like the dvds the next one should be funny me at six flags wearing a superman cape i won.

sarcasm · « **Reply #292 on:** July 18, 2006, 07:08:16 AM »

hey Vince Basile when you deposit checks at the bank do you sign them......Vince Basile Mr. Canada 1970?

Lee_a_priest · « **Reply #293 on:** July 18, 2006, 07:09:15 AM »

Quote from: bestposer1 on July 18, 2006, 06:58:44 AM

Chick is this true? Because if not, essentially a bodybuilder is a contractor and free to compete wherever he wants and 14:9 would get struck down in court correct?

Yes we are and keep getting reminded that we are INDEPENDANT CONTRACTORS.

Tre · « **Reply #294 on:** July 18, 2006, 07:57:45 AM »

Quote from: onlyme on July 17, 2006, 08:47:27 PM

Yep. It's nice how they make the money in the US and transfer the funds to Canada. Smart but still sneaky.

Since the IFBB is supposedly a "non-profit" organization, where does all the American dollars go once they're in Canada?

All that tax-free income sure must be nice...

buffbodz · « **Reply #295 on:** July 18, 2006, 08:19:16 AM »

Boxing did the same thing when the WBC and the WBA were the only show in town. Many boxers and promoters were feeling left so Bob Lee, who turned out to be a crook and is besides the point, started the IBF. Larry Holmes and Marvin Hagler were the first to jump ship and now the IFB is as powerful as any of the other organizations, if now more. If the PDI is run well and doesn't become a dumping ground for bb's who can't get recognized anywhere else than it's doomed, but if Vince and Lee honor their contractsAnd other big names who can't get placed in the IFBB compete in the PDI, as they should, than the PDI has fair ground to show the world what they can do. Precedent has been set and done well, so give the PDI a shot and stop the monopoly that the IFBB has over Pro Bodybuilding. The group Vince McMahon set up in the 80's was more geared to wrestling, not bodybuilding, so that will be one lesson learned.

Chick · « **Reply #296 on:** July 18, 2006, 09:10:04 AM »

Quote from: bestposer1 on July 18, 2006, 06:58:44 AM

Chick is this true? Because if not, essentially a bodybuilder is a contractor and free to compete wherever he wants and 14:9 would get struck down in court correct?

Yes, when you sign and send in your renewel form...you agree to abide by the rules set forth by the IFBB.

We are considered "independant contractors", and are members of the Pro league which is a sub-division of the IFBB.

Chick · « **Reply #297 on:** July 18, 2006, 09:17:04 AM »

Quote from: Lee_a_priest on July 18, 2006, 07:02:41 AM

Bob i contacted the man in charge Robin Chang and got no response.If i remeber correct i did mention it Bob maybe even on the radio show.You sadi you had not yet seen the contract and would take a look at it remember AND NEVER GOT BACK TO ME.But i don't blmae you even the IFBB pro division leader Jim Mnaion didn't even know what was in it the Day of the show when i spoke to him.

Lee

Yeah...I could be wrong, but I believe you were on AFTER you pulled out...other question is...why did you sign it and send it in if you had such a big problem with it?

Why are you willing to sign it THIS year...?

G o a t b o y · « **Reply #298 on:** July 18, 2006, 09:18:36 AM »

Quote from: Chick on July 18, 2006, 09:10:04 AM

Yes, when you sign and send in your renewel form...you agree to abide by the rules set forth by the IFBB.

We are considered "independant contractors", and are members of the Pro league which is a sub-division of the IFBB.

I don't understand how the IFBB can pay you as an "independant contractor" (in other words, NOT pay you), yet expect to exert the same control over you that an employer would, and limit your ability to earn outside income.

That would be like me hiring a plumber to do work on my house, and making him sign a contract not to do plumbing work for anyone else!

Legally, I understand how they're getting away with it, but morally it's not right and you know it! As athlete's rep you should be fighting what to any outside observer who hasn't drank the IFBB Koolaid is an obvious injustice.

Chick · « **Reply #299 on:** July 18, 2006, 09:26:51 AM »

The IFBB is a sanctioning body... all they do is provide a platform to compete for prize money via the promoter. They don't "hire" anyone...you JOIN their club...thats the difference.

It would be more like the plumber volunteering to fix your sink on the premise that you would give him referrals to make money off of other jobs...your job would merely be a showcase of your talents.