Vince Taylor out of the PDI & into the Olympia

[Vince G, CSN MFT]

Vince...so what will you say if Lee does not place ahead of these soo called "non-equals"? Will you then shut your pie hole, get in the gym and train?

If he loses, the IFBB may not let him back......


Either way he's screwed unless he drops out from the show.


Vince and Rhino are great bodybuilders but they're not good enough to be considered "Pro Quality"

[jaejonna]

I think PDI needs to introduce one of those "big names"  they have been talking about crossing over or the NOC will look like Vinny and Rhino posing in front of Arvillia and littleguns.

[onlyme]

Ron, YOU cannot compare anything like the NFL or any other REAL sporting body to the IFBB.  The IFBB is not a recognized organization in any industry.  It is basically a business owned and operated by the Weiders and now AMI with the Weiders still making the calls.  It is their business and they run it the way THEY want.  Not the right way but their way.  Every IFBB pro is basically spineless and gutless except for guys like Milos and Lee.  

They are so insecure and afraid to speak what they really want to say because they are afraid of getting a black eye from the IFBB.  The NFL and every other sporting organization take care of their members.  The IFBB DOES NOT do anythng.  It has been proven since it's inception.  As much as I still like Chic and I like his attitude, he supports people that take advantage of every opportunity to f**k an IFBB pro.  This is beyond me.  How can they tell you what and where to go to make money when they do not pay you one penny.  

They do absoultely nothing for you, to try to defend the IFBB is absolutely worthless and stupid beyond all comprehension.  Are you really that insecure not to speak your mind and do what you can to support you and your family.  


CHic since you are the IFBB rep answer these;

1.  What kind of retirement fund does the IFBB provide or have in place for their members
2.  What kind of insurance does the IFBB provide
3.  What is the minimum pay in the IFBB
4.  What kind of legal representation does the IFBB provide each member in case of non-payment or any other issue reagrding competition, sponsorship etc.
5.  What sponsorhsips do the IFBB provide the members
6.  How many IFBB pros are on the Board of Directors
7.  Who are the regional representatives for the IFBB members or are youtheir only rep worldwide
8.  Does the IFBB provide insurance to it's members when on photo shoots or any other apperance where they are representing the IFBB.
9.  When is the voting for the Board of Directors
10. Since the IFBB doesn't allow members to make money outside of IFBB sponsored events, do they pay the members anything to offset what they are missing out at shows they could be working or appearing.
11. Does the IFBB pay the members who appear in magazines for their likeness.
12. What type of profit-sharing does the IFBB offer its members
13. What kind of residual payments do IFBB members get for use of their pictures or likeness in publications, tapes, DVD or other material.  And if not, does the IFBB provide a tracking system for the members so that they can track their usage and charge whoever accordingly
14. I know their is a rule in the IFFB rules stating no drug use.  DO the have an annual date they test all the members or do they provide the cost of testing to each member so they can get tested.  How do they enforce this rule.  (P.S. we all knwo they put this rule in only so that organizations like the IOC would even talk to them.  There was never any intention to enforce it.  It was put in place to fullfill certain requirements by other federations and organizations)

Since your are the IFBB spokeperson cause Manion is too afraid please answer these very easy questions.  Then please list all the ways the IFBB is good for its members.  And please providing sanctioned shows is not one of them.  Anybody can put on a show by themselves without having to pay the IFBB.

[onlyme]

The guys like Ron and Vince and CHic that say why would the IFBB prevent their member to compete in a rival organization just does not hold water.  What gives them the right to say where you can compete.  They do not pay their members a dime.  How can they dictate how or where you can make money when they do not own you.  Only pussies let guys like the IFBB runs their lives.  What it comes down too is the member are too stupid and have no intelligence to go out and make money themselves.  They have to rely on the IFBB.  Which s even more stupid cause they do not pay you or make you money.

[onlyme]

You guys are forgetting Frey and a few others from Europe in the NOC.  Frey could very easily beat the majority of the IFBB pros.  Maybe not the top ten but pretty much the remaining 190 members

[Vince B]

Well, Lee and Keith and Milos are real men and speak their minds. I wish more people could do that. What happens is that bodybuilders want to win the Olympia and since it is the biggest contest they learn to tow the line. If Lee gets the boot by rebelling then that is one less guy to compete against. Every bodybuilder quickly learns what NOT to do. Namely don't think or try to go against those running the IFBB contests.

Ben Weider is fond of calling what he does the Official way. When you look at organizations, even Olympic ones, you end up seeing individuals running things. Ben gets Manion and others to support him. He gives them power and they tow the line. If you look at this thread you see how the IFBB works. Read what Chick says. Lee is only one person so will be ignored. Heck, way to go, Chick, you will be promoted for saying that. Better still, you will be athlete rep for life!!

Only me says it better than I can. The plain truth is you have to kiss butt to win IFBB contests. There are no exceptions. I love the way the IFBB placed Sergio and Bev Francis 8th. Ben Weider virtually fixed the 83 debut contest Bev competed in. It is all documented in "Pumping Iron, The Women." There was Steve Weinberger shaking his head wondering what happened. Well, if he had a clue he would have realized that they would never let Bev win. She was bad for women's bodybuilding. They never did let her win the Olympia. It is my opinion that the IFBB has a posedown so that errant judges can correct their scores. We have seen this several times in the history of the sport. They did it one year when Bev was winning except lost in the posedown. That is what the posedown is for. Ben is clever. He continues to dupe clueless, gutless bodybuilders. Serge Nubret was popular in Europe so Ben elected himself life president to prevent Serge or anyone else from ever running the IFBB.

In 1981 a group of us ran contests in Sydney. We respected bodybuilders and all decisions were done for their benefit. One thing we did was publish the judges results at the end of the contest. It was simple to do but not possible if you have a posedown that might alter placings. There is no way anyone can judge a posedown where all are doing different things. It is preposterous. Yet Chick and others seem to accept this blatant nonsense. It is a pity Ben was never a bodybuilder. Come to think about it Joe hardly lifted a weight, either. I don't trust non-bodybuilders. I don't trust the IFBB when they install former criminals to help them do whatever it is that they do. It surely is not the sport of bodybuilding. The IFBB stinks from the top down. Guys like me are never invited to judge or contribute. I could redo the whole judging enterprise to make it fair and valid. Until someone fair redoes this the nonsense we witness yearly will continue. Lee will be silenced and he will be used to keep the others kissing butt. Watch and see if I am right.

[Earl1972]

Wayne may have been a dick to Kevin Levrone at the 2002 Olympia athlete's meeting, but he is a damn good promoter. 

yes wayne was officialy a douchebag in my mind after I saw that

E

[Chick]

Well, Lee and Keith and Milos are real men and speak their minds. I wish more people could do that. What happens is that bodybuilders want to win the Olympia and since it is the biggest contest they learn to tow the line. If Lee gets the boot by rebelling then that is one less guy to compete against. Every bodybuilder quickly learns what NOT to do. Namely don't think or try to go against those running the IFBB contests.

Ben Weider is fond of calling what he does the Official way. When you look at organizations, even Olympic ones, you end up seeing individuals running things. Ben gets Manion and others to support him. He gives them power and they tow the line. If you look at this thread you see how the IFBB works. Read what Chick says. Lee is only one person so will be ignored. Heck, way to go, Chick, you will be promoted for saying that. Better still, you will be athlete rep for life!!

Only me says it better than I can. The plain truth is you have to kiss butt to win IFBB contests. There are no exceptions. I love the way the IFBB placed Sergio and Bev Francis 8th. Ben Weider virtually fixed the 83 debut contest Bev competed in. It is all documented in "Pumping Iron, The Women." There was Steve Weinberger shaking his head wondering what happened. Well, if he had a clue he would have realized that they would never let Bev win. She was bad for women's bodybuilding. They never did let her win the Olympia. It is my opinion that the IFBB has a posedown so that errant judges can correct their scores. We have seen this several times in the history of the sport. They did it one year when Bev was winning except lost in the posedown. That is what the posedown is for. Ben is clever. He continues to dupe clueless, gutless bodybuilders. Serge Nubret was popular in Europe so Ben elected himself life president to prevent Serge or anyone else from ever running the IFBB.

In 1981 a group of us ran contests in Sydney. We respected bodybuilders and all decisions were done for their benefit. One thing we did was publish the judges results at the end of the contest. It was simple to do but not possible if you have a posedown that might alter placings. There is no way anyone can judge a posedown where all are doing different things. It is preposterous. Yet Chick and others seem to accept this blatant nonsense. It is a pity Ben was never a bodybuilder. Come to think about it Joe hardly lifted a weight, either. I don't trust non-bodybuilders. I don't trust the IFBB when they install former criminals to help them do whatever it is that they do. It surely is not the sport of bodybuilding. The IFBB stinks from the top down. Guys like me are never invited to judge or contribute. I could redo the whole judging enterprise to make it fair and valid. Until someone fair redoes this the nonsense we witness yearly will continue. Lee will be silenced and he will be used to keep the others kissing butt. Watch and see if I am right.

Lee is being heard loud and clear...he is but one voice. When others express an interest in competing elsewhere in addition to the IFBB, then we can submit for change. Are you suggesting the IFBB should make a change every time a single bodybuilder has a problem with something?

I submit items for consideration on behalf of the athletes...the MAJORITY of athletes...can't think of anything more fair than that.

It's obvious you have an ax to grind with the IFBB, and a major chip on the shoulder...think it alters your thinking any?

[240 is Back]

Lee is being heard loud and clear...he is but one voice. When others express an interest in competing elsewhere in addition to the IFBB, then we can submit for change. Are you suggesting the IFBB should make a change every time a single bodybuilder has a problem with something?

I submit items for consideration on behalf of the athletes...the MAJORITY of athletes...can't think of anything more fair than that.

It's obvious you have an ax to grind with the IFBB, and a major chip on the shoulder...think it alters your thinking any?

You have how many IFBB pros?  100? 200?  You're not going to submit anything until at least half of them tell you they want it?

Did half of them come to you on health insurance?  judging reform?  whatever else you've petitioned to the IFBB?


Aside from that, can you at least admit that many feel showing any interest in the PDI will get them penalized in IFBB judging?  I know you have to play nice with the rulebook, but in real life, ppl get screwed for things like that.

[jwb]

I think 240 needs to be realistic about what is probably gonna happen to the PDI in the next few months and not get too upset about it (and therefore not post too many whiny posts either dude...).

Wayne simply didn't have the CASH brother!

I said on here last year that to start a new org it would cost someone quiet a few MILLION dollars and I still stand by it.

First year he needed to offer some guys who are good but not that well off financially (like vince taylor) a monthly salary from 6 months out from the first show to get them to commit and help promote the show.

The first show could NEVER make money and shouldn't have been planned to do as such. The first year would be all about momentum and one great show to get people talking and excited.

Wayne made the fatal mistake of talking about shows in 3 years time blah blah blah. The bodybuilders care about TODAY and paying their rent TODAY.

Bodybuilding can be fixed but it has to suffer for a few years before the turn around could occur. Its like a big company that still makes a profit but is slowly making less and less each year. It needs to spent money now on new ideas and innovations to ensure it's long term survival.

Bodybuilding's long term survival entails more acceptable looking (and healthy looking) physiques winning the top shows and the biggest not being considered the best.

It has a chance with Phil Heath perhaps to change things but it needs to get to the point where a huge guy is basically laughed off the stage because of his growth/insulin gut because MOST of the fans find it ridiculous which isn't the case right now because so many of the young fans simply don't know what a good physique looks like. It needs to be taught to them the ideas of proportion, symmetry, aesthetics, good posing.

When I got involved with the sport it had an artistic side to it promoted by guys like George Butler that gave it some mainstream cred. The general public found it odd but if you told them these guys felt they were living artforms and were trying to perfect their art (ie. themselves) they kind of accepted that concept  and could appreciate it (hey it was the 70's too)

As for BOB saying he wouldn't table a request from Lee Presit to be able to compete in BOTH IFBB and PDI I think that is a disgrace.

As the athlete rep and Lee still being a fvcking PAID member for 2006. If Lee wrote a formal request this week asking to be able to compete in both then Bob should table it on his behalf as his rep to the powers that be.

end of story

[240 is Back]

good points, balanced post, jwb!

[bestposer1]

Would someone like to tell me how this compares to an NFL situation as they are signed to a contract with a professional organization...last I checked not one athlete has a signed contract with the IFBB.  Yes you sign contracts to compete in different shows and with supplement companies but not with the IFBB.

[jwb]

Would someone like to tell me how this compares to an NFL situation as they are signed to a contract with a professional organization...last I checked not one athlete has a signed contract with the IFBB.  Yes you sign contracts to compete in different shows and with supplement companies but not with the IFBB.

I think when they send in their money for the card each year they sign something binding them the the IFBB pro division.

[onlyme]

Some might question the legitimacy of that "non-profit" status...

Yep.  It's nice how they make the money in the US and transfer the funds to Canada.  Smart but still sneaky.

[bestposer1]

I think when they send in their money for the card each year they sign something binding them the the IFBB pro division.

If this is true then why would rule 14:9 exist?

[Miss Karen]

Just goes to show the strength when the rep says he won't listen or do any thing for one member he needs alot to act.Thank god you are not a union boss Chick you would go missing.

[Chick]

I think you guys are missing the point...The "powers that be" know full well, Lee's position...that in itself isn't going to make any change when it isn't being echoed by anyone else. I'll be more than happy to submit a formal request if Lee puts it together...and all but guarantee it will fall on deaf ears.

The Athletes rep position was created by Shawn and myself to give a COLLECTIVE voice to the IFBB pro's, whose voices and requests wen't largely unanswered by the "powers that be" at the time....

I, myself wanted to do away with having the posing round scored...went to the athletes to get a vote on the matter, they still voted to keep it even though they know they're not really getting scored on it...thats life. Even though I believe it would be in the best interest of the athletes, they feel differently. By majority, those that voted were heard and counted.

When someone else is the rep, they can run it however they want...I'll let the majority rule.

[240 is Back]

I think you guys are missing the point...The "powers that be" know full well, Lee's position...that in itself isn't going to make any change when it isn't being echoed by anyone else. I'll be more than happy to submit a formal request if Lee puts it together...and all but guarantee it will fall on deaf ears.

No flaming - being serious here -

IMO, part of the atheltes rep job is to put it in writing, go over it with the lawyer, and submit it.  Then, if and when it's rejected, go to your lawyer and ask what can be done to change the rule.  If necessary, you sue the IFBB for limiting its athletes' earning power in a non-salaried sport.

Thoughts?

[OneMoreRep]

Chic,

Some other guy in here asked these questions, how about you answer?

CHic since you are the IFBB rep answer these;

1.  What kind of retirement fund does the IFBB provide or have in place for their members
2.  What kind of insurance does the IFBB provide
3.  What is the minimum pay in the IFBB
4.  What kind of legal representation does the IFBB provide each member in case of non-payment or any other issue reagrding competition, sponsorship etc.
5.  What sponsorhsips do the IFBB provide the members
6.  How many IFBB pros are on the Board of Directors
7.  Who are the regional representatives for the IFBB members or are youtheir only rep worldwide
8.  Does the IFBB provide insurance to it's members when on photo shoots or any other apperance where they are representing the IFBB.
9.  When is the voting for the Board of Directors
10. Since the IFBB doesn't allow members to make money outside of IFBB sponsored events, do they pay the members anything to offset what they are missing out at shows they could be working or appearing.
11. Does the IFBB pay the members who appear in magazines for their likeness.
12. What type of profit-sharing does the IFBB offer its members
13. What kind of residual payments do IFBB members get for use of their pictures or likeness in publications, tapes, DVD or other material.  And if not, does the IFBB provide a tracking system for the members so that they can track their usage and charge whoever accordingly
14. I know their is a rule in the IFFB rules stating no drug use.  DO the have an annual date they test all the members or do they provide the cost of testing to each member so they can get tested.  How do they enforce this rule.  (P.S. we all knwo they put this rule in only so that organizations like the IOC would even talk to them.  There was never any intention to enforce it.  It was put in place to fullfill certain requirements by other federations and organizations)

[jwb]

I think you guys are missing the point...The "powers that be" know full well, Lee's position...that in itself isn't going to make any change when it isn't being echoed by anyone else. I'll be more than happy to submit a formal request if Lee puts it together...and all but guarantee it will fall on deaf ears.

The Athletes rep position was created by Shawn and myself to give a COLLECTIVE voice to the IFBB pro's, whose voices and requests wen't largely unanswered by the "powers that be" at the time....

I, myself wanted to do away with having the posing round scored...went to the athletes to get a vote on the matter, they still voted to keep it even though they know they're not really getting scored on it...thats life. Even though I believe it would be in the best interest of the athletes, they feel differently. By majority, those that voted were heard and counted.

When someone else is the rep, they can run it however they want...I'll let the majority rule.

Good, hopefully Lee will get off his butt and send you something but are you saying if he does then they won't even respond to it in the negative?

[Chick]

Chic,

Some other guy in here asked these questions, how about you answer?

CHic since you are the IFBB rep answer these;

1.  What kind of retirement fund does the IFBB provide or have in place for their members
A. none

2.  What kind of insurance does the IFBB provide
A. none...the Athletes rep has secured Group Health Ins. for IFBB members who wan't it.

3.  What is the minimum pay in the IFBB
A. There is no pay, as a member you are listed as an independant contractor

4.  What kind of legal representation does the IFBB provide each member in case of non-payment or any other issue reagrding competition, sponsorship etc.
A. the IFBB has legal consul which can be used for such purposes, other than that, athletes can contact their rep for solutions to problems.

5.  What sponsorhsips do the IFBB provide the members
A. none directly... indirectly,they offer a platform and exposure via their magazines which have led to many athletes securing contracts including myself.

6.  How many IFBB pros are on the Board of Directors
A. no active members that I know of.

7.  Who are the regional representatives for the IFBB members or are youtheir only rep worldwide
A. there is no need for "regional" reps...there is one for each respective division.

8.  Does the IFBB provide insurance to it's members when on photo shoots or any other apperance where they are representing the IFBB.
A. The IFBB does not provide insurance, Insurance is available via the PTA in accordance with the business deal set up with the athletes rep on behalf of the IFBB athletes.

9.  When is the voting for the Board of Directors
A. Don't know

10. Since the IFBB doesn't allow members to make money outside of IFBB sponsored events, do they pay the members anything to offset what they are missing out at shows they could be working or appearing.
A. no

11. Does the IFBB pay the members who appear in magazines for their likeness.
A. No, Weider/AMI does.

12. What type of profit-sharing does the IFBB offer its members
A. None...last I knew the IFBB is a non profit organization.

13. What kind of residual payments do IFBB members get for use of their pictures or likeness in publications, tapes, DVD or other material.  And if not, does the IFBB provide a tracking system for the members so that they can track their usage and charge whoever accordingly
A. none, the IFBB doesn't have a publication, sell tapes or DVD's.

14. I know their is a rule in the IFFB rules stating no drug use.  DO the have an annual date they test all the members or do they provide the cost of testing to each member so they can get tested.  How do they enforce this rule.  (P.S. we all knwo they put this rule in only so that organizations like the IOC would even talk to them.  There was never any intention to enforce it.  It was put in place to fullfill certain requirements by other federations and organizations)
A. Guess you already have the answer

I'll fire the same questions back to you, Keith...just insert "PDI" where IFBB is.

[240 is Back]

No flaming - being serious here -

IMO, part of the atheltes rep job is to put it in writing, go over it with the lawyer, and submit it.  Then, if and when it's rejected, go to your lawyer and ask what can be done to change the rule.  If necessary, you sue the IFBB for limiting its athletes' earning power in a non-salaried sport.

Thoughts, bob?

[Chick]

No flaming - being serious here -

IMO, part of the atheltes rep job is to put it in writing, go over it with the lawyer, and submit it.  Then, if and when it's rejected, go to your lawyer and ask what can be done to change the rule.  If necessary, you sue the IFBB for limiting its athletes' earning power in a non-salaried sport.

Thoughts, bob?

My thought is that your opinion is meaningless when it comes to the IFBB, or how I run my athletes rep position...

[240 is Back]

My thought is that your opinion is meaningless when it comes to the IFBB, or how I run my athletes rep position...

Fair enough.

Thank you for your answer. 

[Ron]

http://www.getbig.com/news/2006-03/060717pdi.htm


The contract that Vince signed - with his signature.