Vince Taylor out of the PDI & into the Olympia

[Chick]

Bob,

In all honesty though do you really think guys are going to come to you and ask to be able to compete in 2 feds? With no ramifications, blackballing etc etc? Cmon now....

Years ago the IFBB allowed WBFers back after paying a penalty but can you honestly say they were fairly judged upon there return to an IFBB stage? No way in hell.

Please...you think there would be ramifications for merely ASKING about competing? I talk to these guys all thee time, see them at every show and have discussed the issue at length with many more....no one is interested.

Most of them don't want anything to do with Wayne, some were on the receiving end of fines and suspensions and quite honestly don't trust Wayne. Others are willing to take the climb in the IFBB, have contracts and are doing very well,etc.

I'm sure there are a few taking a "wait and see" approach, as there are certainly no guarantee's, little money to be made and a show yet to take place.

[240 is Back]

Please...you think there would be ramifications for merely ASKING about competing?

Yes.  There seems to be a lot of stock put in loyalty, even if it means passing up great opportunities that exist to earn $ on non-ifbb show nights. 

If loyalty to a nonprofit Canadian org which pays you 2 grand a year is keeping your family's income at the poverty line, perhaps it is time to question the way things are set up.

[Chick]

Just what are these "great opportunities" you keep referring to? A show that has yet to take place and could very well go the way of the "qualifiers" that have been canceled?

Major sponsors that STILL have yet to be named...?

Appearances and guest posing opportunities that Vince (or anyone else) had a total of ZERO?

A radio show which has yet to make it's appearance?

There are a lot of athletes with very nice endorsement contracts, all due to the opportunities and exposure they've had competing in the IFBB.

[Big N]

Just what are these "great opportunities" you keep referring to? A show that has yet to take place and could very well go the way of the "qualifiers" that have been canceled?

Major sponsors that STILL have yet to be named...?

Appearances and guest posing opportunities that Vince (or anyone else) had a total of ZERO?

A radio show which has yet to make it's appearance?

There are a lot of athletes with very nice endorsement contracts, all due to the opportunities and exposure they've had competing in the IFBB.

One question bro, as much time as you spend on here when are you at the gym preparing for a contest?

Thanks

[littleguns]

There are a lot of athletes with very nice endorsement contracts, all due to the opportunities and exposure they've had competing in the IFBB.

Those hold true for perhaps the top 10 Olympia people (Jays, Ronnie's etc) but what about others out of the top 10?
Are you saying that perhaps maybe their time is up and look for other things to do besides BB'ing. Alot of them are smart and seem to have other investments but what about the ones that don't? It's tough to hold a F/T job and be an elite BB'er

[240 is Back]

Just what are these "great opportunities" you keep referring to? A show that has yet to take place and could very well go the way of the "qualifiers" that have been canceled?

Bob, even if there is only ONE show which pays 30 grand, isn't that 30,000 reasons to stand up for the guys and give them the right to compete?   

Saying "Let's wait and see" means that the guys are deprived opportunities to earn $ in both. 

If they had permission to do both, they could earn more money.  Throw all the politics and "what ifs" out the window.  Bottom line is that the IFBB guys could earn more money by doing PDI shows on the side.  Whether it last one show or ten years, why prevent it?

[Chick]

One question bro, as much time as you spend on here when are you at the gym preparing for a contest?

Thanks

I'm not preparing for a contest right now...

I train everyday between 12 noon and 1:30, sometimes I go back at night.

 ....and you can see exactly when and where I train on my new "War 4 the Worlds" DVD available at BB.com!!

[Chick]

Bob, even if there is only ONE show which pays 30 grand, isn't that 30,000 reasons to stand up for the guys and give them the right to compete?   

Saying "Let's wait and see" means that the guys are deprived opportunities to earn $ in both. 

If they had permission to do both, they could earn more money.  Throw all the politics and "what ifs" out the window.  Bottom line is that the IFBB guys could earn more money by doing PDI shows on the side.  Whether it last one show or ten years, why prevent it?

1.Who's preventing it?

2. It's the guys themselves that are saying wait and see.

3. Without major sponsors being announced, where is the guarantee of $30,000 actually being paid? Where is the money coming from, Wayne's pocket?

[ribonucleic]

I'm not preparing for a contest right now...

I train everyday between 12 noon and 1:30, sometimes I go back at night.

 ....and you can see exactly when and where I train on my new "War 4 the Worlds" DVD available at BB.com!!

Nice segue there, Bob. 

[natural al]

I'm not preparing for a contest right now...

I train everyday between 12 noon and 1:30, sometimes I go back at night.

 ....and you can see exactly when and where I train on my new "War 4 the Worlds" DVD available at BB.com!!

bob, I have nothing againts you but I do have an honest question.  What do you think-as athlete's rep-of the way that the guys who did the WBF shows were treated upon returning to the IFBB.  They worked out an agreement, payed a fine and for the most part were screwed from that point on.  Aaron Baker and David Dearth along with Jim Quinn-structure aside-presented some very impressive physiques and were constantly placed lower than they shoudl have-Baker getting screwed at the 95 Ironman and I think the SouthBeach (first show in 95, can't remember the name, I think it was southbeach) and dearth presented some amazing conditioning and only earned one 3rd place for all of his efforts.  Berry Demay looked damn good at the NOC and placed what, 14th?  How can the IFBB justify this type of treatment?  I even remember weider telling the other mags that if they covered the WBF shows they would be blackballed, is this legal?  I thought imposing a monopoly was againts the law...I might be wrong on that but I remember hearing it.  

[DonDan]

You seem to profess you know how I think and what others think about me...funny, I don't remember seeing you in any of the meetings, or at any of the shows...just what exactly do you know?

Why don't you list all I've done for the athlete's since you seem to know...?

The public doesn't give a rats ass about testing...no more than they care about baseball players being tested...you see any drop in attendance?

There is more money in bodybuilding today than at any other time in history. More guys are making a living bodybuilding, and have endorsement contracts than at any other time in history...There were more people in atendance at the Olympia this past year, than at any other time in history.

This aint 1974 anymore, Mr. Canada...times have changed.

Quit talking about what *I* say, do, or think...you don't know me.

Let us not forget, more bodybuiliders have been DIEING than any other time in history. MEN and Women. What does that say about Pro bodybuilders and drug use? Many will say ok, prove it. I say, let your mind and heart show you the truth. GEAR is killing bodybuilders because they have no clue what/how these drugs interact. Experimentation really isn't smart. Once a mistake is made, there's no going back.

[240 is Back]

1.Who's preventing it?
2. It's the guys themselves that are saying wait and see.
3. Without major sponsors being announced, where is the guarantee of $30,000 actually being paid? Where is the money coming from, Wayne's pocket?

1.  The IFBB is preventing it, promising bans for anyone who competes

2.  If even one guy (Lee) is NOT saying "Let's wait and see", it's the athletes rep job to represent him to the best of his abilities, for the right to earn in both federations.

3.  There have been sponsors announced.  Wayne has a pretty good history of paying guys - he did manage to run things in the IFBB pretty well for 20 years.  You have no reason to believe that guys will be stiffed.  I'd be a lot more nervous about some of the smaller show IFBB promoters than Wayne DeMilia in his debut independent production.

[Chick]

bob, I have nothing againts you but I do have an honest question.  What do you think-as athlete's rep-of the way that the guys who did the WBF shows were treated upon returning to the IFBB.  They worked out an agreement, payed a fine and for the most part were screwed from that point on.  Aaron Baker and David Dearth along with Jim Quinn-structure aside-presented some very impressive physiques and were constantly placed lower than they shoudl have-Baker getting screwed at the 95 Ironman and I think the SouthBeach (first show in 95, can't remember the name, I think it was southbeach) and dearth presented some amazing conditioning and only earned one 3rd place for all of his efforts.  Berry Demay looked damn good at the NOC and placed what, 14th?  How can the IFBB justify this type of treatment?  I even remember weider telling the other mags that if they covered the WBF shows they would be blackballed, is this legal?  I thought imposing a monopoly was againts the law...I might be wrong on that but I remember hearing it. 

Well, I guess it comes down to how one looks at it.

The IFBB was under no obligation to let them back in...they could have simply said no.

Other than Aaron (who I personally would have had winning)...I don't think anyone got screwed. Barry had a torn pec which was very prominent, Mike Christian was past his prime, Dearth was never placing that well BEFORE he went to the WBF, Quinn was never in condition...I mean really, who really got screwed here?

Has Lee gotten the shaft since announcing his PDI plans? Many argue he got a gift at the last 2 shows...

The top guys in the IFBB were still the top guys when the WBF guys came back, as none of them left.

[natural al]

Well, I guess it comes down to how one looks at it.

The IFBB was under no obligation to let them back in...they could have simply said no.

Other than Aaron (who I personally would have had winning)...I don't think anyone got screwed. Barry had a torn pec which was very prominent, Mike Christian was past his prime, Dearth was never placing that well BEFORE he went to the WBF, Quinn was never in condition...I mean really, who really got screwed here?

Has Lee gotten the shaft since announcing his PDI plans? Many argue he got a gift at the last 2 shows...

The top guys in the IFBB were still the top guys when the WBF guys came back, as none of them left.

you might be right about the shape of some guys, I'm going off memory.  I guess I was not asking about particular guys.  I was getting at the way the IFBB took thier money, I think it was 10% of thier earnings while in the WBF  which the guys paid in good faith and then had the tag "WBF Guy" on them for the rest of thier competitive careers.  Now maybe some of them never would have done crap but no one can really say the slate was clean when they came back and that was what I was getting at.  Now I know this is not the subject of this thread and I know you were not there and had nothing to do with it, this is nothing personal just want to know how you feel about this. 

[Chick]

1.  The IFBB is preventing it, promising bans for anyone who competes

2.  If even one guy (Lee) is NOT saying "Let's wait and see", it's the athletes rep job to represent him to the best of his abilities, for the right to earn in both federations.

3.  There have been sponsors announced.  Wayne has a pretty good history of paying guys - he did manage to run things in the IFBB pretty well for 20 years.  You have no reason to believe that guys will be stiffed.  I'd be a lot more nervous about some of the smaller show IFBB promoters than Wayne DeMilia in his debut independent production.

1. The IFBB rules have been in place for 40 years, everyone is aware of this when they sign the contract to become a member.

2. Everyone is well aware of Lee's position...I can't make them anymore aware than they are. They aren't going to change the rules for 1 guy...Lee can make HIS opinion and wishes known for LEE...I have to reflect the wishes of EVERYONE as a whole.

3.What sponsors? All I seen is a bunch of filler on the poster...Other than Universal (which may only be on board because of Vinny) where is the money coming from?

It's YOUR opinion that he "ran things well for 20 years"...many would disagree that have actual experience with wayne at the helm. Some of the very rules the IFBB has that you have a problem with, were put in place by....you guessed it....Wayne DeMilia.

[240 is Back]

1. The IFBB rules have been in place for 40 years, everyone is aware of this when they sign the contract to become a member.

2. Everyone is well aware of Lee's position...I can't make them anymore aware than they are. They aren't going to change the rules for 1 guy...Lee can make HIS opinion and wishes known for LEE...I have to reflect the wishes of EVERYONE as a whole.

3.What sponsors? All I seen is a bunch of filler on the poster...Other than Universal (which may only be on board because of Vinny) where is the money coming from?

It's YOUR opinion that he "ran things well for 20 years"...many would disagree that have actual experience with wayne at the helm. Some of the very rules the IFBB has that you have a problem with, were put in place by....you guessed it....Wayne DeMilia.

I see you doing nothing but defending the IFBB, and attacking the PDI.

A*true* athletes rep would let some IFBB spokesman handle those tasks.  A *true* athletes rep - whose only goal was for every athlete to have the most available opportunities possible - would instead focus his energies upon every single dollar he would get for the athletes.

Read over your posts, Bob.  It's pretty clear to anyone who reads them that you are more focused upon talking about why the PDI will fail, than you are about getting more money in the pros' pockets.  There are many IFBB guys who will go their whole careers and never make a peep about the PDI, but who would do the NOC or a Euro show in a heartbeat if they thought they were allowed.  Those Euro IFBB guys who fly around the world to not place in the USA - they would LOVE a PDI show in their country, where they have a shot at $.

The only good thing in all this, is that the world reads getbig.  The pros, the brass, the PDI, the IFBB, they all read it.  They are having an "ah-ha" moment right now, and it's abundantly clear that Bob Chic doesn't work for the athletes, he works for the IFBB.  And that is fine- but just admit it.  Stop grandstanding about all the opportunities you're working for, and look in the mirror and realize all the opportunities you're preventing as well.

You make a good living from BBing.  90% of the guys don't. The PDI is a great chance for Tier 2 & 3 guys to make a better living.  I don't know why you're standing in their way.

[Chick]

I see you doing nothing but defending the IFBB, and attacking the PDI.

A*true* athletes rep would let some IFBB spokesman handle those tasks.  A *true* athletes rep - whose only goal was for every athlete to have the most available opportunities possible - would instead focus his energies upon every single dollar he would get for the athletes.

Read over your posts, Bob.  It's pretty clear to anyone who reads them that you are more focused upon talking about why the PDI will fail, than you are about getting more money in the pros' pockets.  There are many IFBB guys who will go their whole careers and never make a peep about the PDI, but who would do the NOC or a Euro show in a heartbeat if they thought they were allowed.  Those Euro IFBB guys who fly around the world to not place in the USA - they would LOVE a PDI show in their country, where they have a shot at $.

The only good thing in all this, is that the world reads getbig.  The pros, the brass, the PDI, the IFBB, they all read it.  They are having an "ah-ha" moment right now, and it's abundantly clear that Bob Chic doesn't work for the athletes, he works for the IFBB.  And that is fine- but just admit it.  Stop grandstanding about all the opportunities you're working for, and look in the mirror and realize all the opportunities you're preventing as well.

You make a good living from BBing.  90% of the guys don't. The PDI is a great chance for Tier 2 & 3 guys to make a better living.  I don't know why you're standing in their way.

Yeah....there's one gigantic flaw in your rambling.

If 90% of the guys in the IFBB aren't making a dime...then what do they have to gain by staying in it...and what do they have to lose by simply going to the PDI, anyway?

I got your "A-Ha" moment...right heeeeeeeere!

[The Master]

Yeah....there's one gigantic flaw in your rambling.

If 90% of the guys in the IFBB aren't making a dime...then what do they have to gain by staying in it...and what do they have to lose by simply going to the PDI, anyway?

I got your "A-Ha" moment...right heeeeeeeere!

You two: get a room.

[natural al]

Yeah....there's one gigantic flaw in your rambling.

If 90% of the guys in the IFBB aren't making a dime...then what do they have to gain by staying in it...and what do they have to lose by simply going to the PDI, anyway?

I got your "A-Ha" moment...right heeeeeeeere!

honestly most of these guys have spent thier entier lives trying to be pro's now they have a choice, stay with the IFBB and continue as is or swich and if it fails then thier career is over and thier dreams are destroyed.  That's what's stopping alot of these guys, you don't think they forgot what happened to the wbf guys...what's to say it won't happen again?

[kmhphoto]

The PDI is a great chance for Tier 2 & 3 guys to make a better living.  I don't know why you're standing in their way.

If you're truly concerned that these "Tier 2 & 3" athletes can make money, surley you should support the IFBB's rule because otherwise they will still not place?
If Ronnie, Jay, Dexter, Melvin, Darrem, Phil. entered the NOC, name me the top six?
Same people go home with the same amount of money.

[natural al]

if I understand bob's title he's the IFBB athletes rep...he hs no obligation to help people succeed outside of the IFBB he's only there to act as a go between for the athletes and the officials....am I mistaken on this?

[ribonucleic]

if I understand bob's title he's the IFBB athletes rep...he hs no obligation to help people succeed outside of the IFBB he's only there to act as a go between for the athletes and the officials....am I mistaken on this?

240 would blame Chick for leaking Valerie Plame's CIA identity if he could. 

[DragonsBreath]

If you're truly concerned that these "Tier 2 & 3" athletes can make money, surley you should support the IFBB's rule because otherwise they will still not place?
If Ronnie, Jay, Dexter, Melvin, Darrem, Phil. entered the NOC, name me the top six?
Same people go home with the same amount of money.

Good point. I can see both point of view. 240 is saying that the "2nd & 3rd tier" guys only chance to make a decent living is to compete in an organization (PDI) that they will have a chance in. At the same time, I take it that the guys from the IFBB should be able to cross-compete in the PDI without any ramifications to get an "extra paycheck" on the side as you put it.

But kmh has a good point. If the IFBB guys were allowed to do that, then the same guys would go home with all the money and the exhisting "problem" will still be in place......2nd & 3rd tier left with pennies!

[240 is Back]

BUt the top guys won't enter every show.  The top IFBB guys can't peak 20 times a year.  You're not going to see a Cutler or Coleman traveling to Yugoslavia for many shows.  Top guys will be more selective with their shows.  While the top guys will earn more money (a good thing) the lesser guys will obviously earn too.  Plus, they'll gain exposure in EUR which might open up more opportunities there for them.

[Chick]

As I said before...all things being equal, if all the guys can compete in all the shows...we end up with the SAME shows on both sides of the fence...no more money to the lower tier guys, same money to the top guys....and two watered down federations and fan bases.

BTW, does anyone think the SAME supplement companies are going to spend MORE money to support another federation catering to the same fan base?