Anthony D'Arezzo - RIP

[nicorulez]

Finally Johnny and ETA PI, some more info for both of you.  As I said before, 80-90% of type 2 diabetes have a weight problem and this, along with their genetic pre-disposition, cause them to become diabetic.  You make the point that only 1 in 40000 college have type 2 diabetes.  I counter that there are probably many more than that statistically speaking (and remember, not everyone publishes their health info online).  I have never doubted that weight loss and exercise will help and possibly keep a patient off of meds.  However, for you to state that type 2 diabetics are lazy and slothful 100% of the time is an issue I have.  That is not true and I believe you at least owe an apology to approximately 1 million type 2 diabetics that are not obese and slothful.  The reason, there are over 15 million type 2 diabetics in this country.  If 90 percent are obese or overweight, that means 10 percent or so are not. 

Also, if over 50 percent of American or overweight or obese, we would have over 150 million diabetics going by your reasoning.  So, although I agree to a point to what you are stating, you have completely disregarded the genetic component of this disease.  Now, as above, I concur if you exercise and lose weight the long term side effects will be markedly diminished.  However, being overweight and slothful are not the main risk factors.

[The True Adonis]

then why are you working at GNC?

haahahahahahahah He sold a Gold Card and now he thinks he is Ronnie Coleman.

[War-Horse]

So anyway....someone measured jim quinns bodyfat at 0.0% .......flex wheeler, right??

[nicorulez]

Very cool avatar Adonis. 

[I ETA PI]

Wrong again my friend. I am double board certified and have been out for some time.  Moreover I am a nephrologist and when people like Johnny make blanket statements that are false or wrong, I need to correct him.  Certainly, I have openly admitted that obesity is a risk factor, but he totally ignores genetics.  Never once did he acknowledge the Pima Indian's and their genetic risk.  He makes a blanket statement that they would not be diabetic if they lifted weights; that is completely asinine and false.  They will always be diabetic; they may be able to control it with diet and exercise but as soon as they slip they will need meds again.  Thus, I had to correct him because his pompousness and bashing of all Type 2 diabetics (read his posts bud and you will see his arrogant attitude) is appalling. 

BTW Johnny, there are multiple college athletes with type 2 diabetes.  Whether they control it with exercise, diet or meds is individual to individual.  I literally can find hundreds of instances where athletes were type 2.  For instance, renal or heart transplant patients can become diabetic from the immunosuppressive meds they are on.  Think it is only because they are lazy.    You make false blanket statements that are erroneous.  Your complete and utter disrespect to all diabetics is appalling. 

PI, why do you have to stick your nose in this thread.  You are uninformed and clueless as Johnny.  If you are an engineer, I would not sit here debating architectural design with you.  Thus, for Johnny to debate me is like a one legged man entering an arse kicking contest; he is going to lose as he is totally uninformed.  BTW, I correct soccer moms all the time when they are wrong and off base. 

I never debated you.  I just stated that you should be embarassed for grandstanding here on a bodybuilding board.  Give yourself a big pat on the back for dueling with non-physicians.  Do you brag to other doctors about your ability to "own" people who aren't doctors on medical knowledge?  Or would you feel silly in doing that?  If the latter is true, then perhaps you should tone it down a notch.....

[The True Adonis]

Very cool avatar Adonis. 

The Squad needs a medical doctor.

[shootfighter1]

I concur with nicorulez on many points.  However, we do need to keep focus on the obesity epidemic and its relation to the rising # of type II diabetics...especially the rising # of juvenille type II diabetics.  Obesity is the single largest risk factor for diabetes and over 90% of type II diabetics are overweight/obese.  30% of the U.S. population is now obese.

[I ETA PI]

I concur with nicorulez on many points.  However, we do need to keep focus on the obesity epidemic and its relation to the rising # of type II diabetics...especially the rising # of juvenille type II diabetics.  Obesity is the single largest risk factor for diabetes and over 90% of type II diabetics are overweight/obese.  30% of the U.S. population is now obese.

John,
   If I am correct, you too are a medical doctor.  How do you feel about someone from your profession looking down upon, and mocking people here on this board in a debate over a serious issue?  Would it not be better for all individuals for those with greater education on a subject attempt to help those with less education, rather than try to prove just how much more educated they are? 

The elitism from many doctors is embarassing to me. 

[I ETA PI]

By the way, I appreciate your ability to post with insight, void of the grandstanding others would apply.

[War-Horse]

I mean really....was jim quinn that ripped???

[MindSpin]

Ba ha h ha!!!!  Yeah buddy!  One Advil jpg and more than a handful of you meltdown…LOL! 

For the record, it was not intended at Anthony, may he rest in peace.  As others who “get it” have already explained, it was a simple metaphor for the denial/”cover up” that was sure to come, after yet one more gear related death. 

how would you have felt if somebody posted this in a Billy Carp thread?

you have no class

E

I could give a rat’s ass what anyone says about Billy on this forum, where it is mandatory to say shit just to get a rise out of people.  You come to expect it.  I know why Billy passed away.  I know what type of person he was.  Nothing an anonymous person on this board says, can change that.   

The biggest asshole on the board posts this shit upon someones passing. Fucken asshole.

I think I'll save this jpg and hope I see a day ( very soon ) when I will have a chance to post it in a thread for Scott's boy.

The Beef

Ha ha ha ha…I own you so bad it’s comical.  Newsflash…when I die, there will surely be a long line of happy people.  That means nothing to me as long as I have the love of my friends and family. 

Mindspin, you are a little homo. What do you expect from a guy who never won a title to speak of who thinks he is better than Steve Reeves was.

Well, it’s the 2nd time you’ve made that accusation, and I will again correct you.  Never once have I compared myself to the legendary Steve Reeves (where are you getting this ).  At my best, I never came close to achieving anything resembling his amazing physique.   
 

[War-Horse]

I cant believe you guys went nuts over the advil thing.   We all know what that means around here..........spin could beat reeves tho.

[jaejonna]

If I die cause I was drinking and got behind the wheel of my car and crashed ..please someone put up an Advil pic!!!

[UK Gold]

Ba ha h ha!!!!  Yeah buddy!  One Advil jpg and more than a handful of you meltdown…LOL! 

For the record, it was not intended at Anthony, may he rest in peace.  As others who “get it” have already explained, it was a simple metaphor for the denial/”cover up” that was sure to come, after yet one more gear related death. 


I could give a rat’s ass what anyone says about Billy on this forum, where it is mandatory to say shit just to get a rise out of people.  You come to expect it.  I know why Billy passed away.  I know what type of person he was.  Nothing an anonymous person on this board says, can change that.   


Ha ha ha ha…I own you so bad it’s comical.  Newsflash…when I die, there will surely be a long line of happy people.  That means nothing to me as long as I have the love of my friends and family. 

Well, it’s the 2nd time you’ve made that accusation, and I will again correct you.  Never once have I compared myself to the legendary Steve Reeves (where are you getting this ).  At my best, I never came close to achieving anything resembling his amazing physique.   
 

If you're daughter died of an Advil overdose would you mind if someone posted that Advil pic? You crossed the line - you know you did. Don't try and weasel out of it now.

[War-Horse]

Sarcasms posted lots of pic's of cucumbers in his ass......Im sure someones died of cucumberitis and took it personal.   We dont walk on eggshells around here.

[MindSpin]

If you're daughter died of an Advil overdose would you mind if someone posted that Advil pic? You crossed the line - you know you did. Don't try and weasel out of it now.

Weasel out of it...   I've made no apologies and stand by my post.  Bodybuilding is on par with any other type of dangerous "sport".  If a mountain climber slips and falls to his death, it's the risk he took.  Only difference is, it won't be blamed on "pre existing conditions". 

Oh, and if anyone in my family decides to pump mass quantities of male hormones into their body, to the point where is causes a major organ shut down, trust me, I won't be blaming it on "pre existing conditions".  So, there would be no need for the Advil jpg...

[nicorulez]

John,
   If I am correct, you too are a medical doctor.  How do you feel about someone from your profession looking down upon, and mocking people here on this board in a debate over a serious issue?  Would it not be better for all individuals for those with greater education on a subject attempt to help those with less education, rather than try to prove just how much more educated they are? 

The elitism from many doctors is embarassing to me. 

I am only making a point that I am very passionate about.  47% of all dialysis patients in this country are there because of diabetes.  Yes, shootfighter is correct that 90% are overweight, however I have over 200 dialysis patients (about 100 with diabetes).  I would say quite confidently that at least 10-15 of these patients are not your typical overweight slots.  In fact, one was an ex-college football star and is in no way overweight.  I have chronic kidney disease patient's with diabetes; many are not grossly overweight.  Some in fact are quite thin.  Johnny gets on this board and essentially bashes anybody who is a type 2 diabetic.  He calls them lazy, slothful and obese.  His arrogance and attitude are astonishing.  I tried to point out initially that genetics were a major cause also.  He essentially shot me down without even addressing the issue.  Thus, I had to call him out and show him the truth.  PI, sometimes when you make a point you have to drive it home.  Most of my colleagues could give a rat's ass that I post on GetBig.  The majority of physicians I work with do not even practice what they preach.  Thus, it is not an issue.  I don't go about ragging on individuals on this board.  I try to educate to the best of my ability.  The arrogance of this schmoe, however, pissed me off.  Thus, I essentialy emasculated him on a message board.  Sorry that I was not overly professional, but even our Senators and Congressman go off at times.  I apologize if I offended you.  However, what I stated was the truth.  I never denied the fact that obesity is rampant.  Look at my previous post about how 50% if Americans are overweight.  I just tried to educate the masses that being fat and lazy is not the only risk factor. 

[nicorulez]

Johnny, yes I am a physician and I do work out.  In fact, I stress diet, exercise and weight loss to all of my patients.  However, I agree with you that most physicians do not practice what they preach; it does piss me off to see a physician smoke for instance.  However, I believe you are mistaking something grossly; medical science does not make blanket statements without scientific proof.  For instance, over 50% if Pima Indians are diabetic; this has been proven over and over again.  There is a known genetic basis for this.  Type 2 Diabetes has an exceedingly high genetic basis; thus, if your mom had it you are at increased risk.  Blacks are known to be at increased risk to be hypertensive; this has nothing to do with their conditioning.  There are genetic basis for both hypertension and diabetes.  Now, you use testosterone and only test.  Let us see, do you honestly think that if you run of the threadmill for thirty minutes a day it would prevent the negative cholesterol side effects.  The answer is no.  Also, exercise only decreases a patient's cholesterol by 15-20% max.  This has been studied.  Even world class athletes are on lipitor or zocor.  There is definitely a genetic basis. Here is a linky for you.

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?cmd=Retrieve&db=pubmed&dopt=Abstract&list_uids=9537421

Now, let us say you dabble in GH.  You don't believe that an adult male with normal GH levels who takes in far more than is physiologically necessary will have side effects.  Yes, long term studies are few and far between, but when kids who take just a enough GH to boost growth (miniscule compared to pro BB) have an increased risk for diabetes that should raise your eyebrows.  GH does cause diabetes and I gurantee that if professional BB's who abused GH took routine bloodwork; this would come out.  BTW, even if an athlete has hypertension or diabetes do you really think they would let anyone but their physicians and immediate family to know.  No way as they are making a living doing this stuff.

Finally, do roids cause liver cancer? Well, once again you are uninformed.  Alzado did not die of AIDS.  He had a brain tumor.  Did steroids contribute to this.  We will never know, although I am sure they did not exactly slow down the cancer.  However, anabolics (especially oral steroids which require two passes in the liver) can cause cirrhosis and cancer.  Don't believe me, check out some links or just google it.  There are numerous journal articles that show your ignorance.  Word of mouth from your steroid dealers and buddies is not fact.  In fact, most steroid abusers are so in the dark that it is actually quite scary that they would consider injecting or ingesting this stuff without medical supervision.  It is stupid and dangerous.  At least if you use, get a qualified physician who is not judgemental to test you.  It is pretty easy.  Well, here is the last link.  Hope this clears up some of your misconceptions.

http://www.nida.nih.gov/SteroidAlert/SteroidAlert.html

PI, here was my initial post to Johnny.  I was anything but sarcastic.  I made some valid points which he shot down without any insight.  He essentially bashed all doctors as being ignorant.  Thus, I had to respond.

[gordiano]

My only problem is, whenever there is a death in the bodybuilding community, it almost seems like there is a cover up as to what happened to the deceased(s) in questions. Sometime, it's very obvious, but nobody wants to come out and say it like it is. regardless, we always gonna ask questions why such and such die at a young age, and why that person(s) which was supposed to be healthy die so young. It's time to say it like it is.

I agree man. Thing is, not very many people want to speak out about it. They don't want to be called assholes for it.

[I ETA PI]

PI, here was my initial post to Johnny.  I was anything but sarcastic.  I made some valid points which he shot down without any insight.  He essentially bashed all doctors as being ignorant.  Thus, I had to respond.

Fair enough. 

[johnnytosh]

I must admit, that the issue of case numbers (or more pertinently the lack thereof) does pose somewhat of a bugbear for myself

When we navigate around the piss weak 'oh, trust me, in 20 years time you will see thousands of dead guys' canard so oft employed by the anti steroid brigade, there really isnt much to see

Sensible steroid use isnt dangerous

GH? well, that has been commonplace for at least 20 years

Insulin/IGF, 10+ years

Where are the MOUNTAINS of dead guys?

I think the anti gang really do need to bring the real world case studies to the table, rather than the stock in trade scaremongering that has been the main tool for the last six decades

Christ, it wouldnt even be so bad if they had the honour to admit they were wrong about steroids, much less sweeping that defeat under the carpet and moving onto [with the same old 'wait and see' canard] GH and IGF/Insulin

Exactly, those are the real facts..  produce names nicorulz, you can't !!

[johnnytosh]

John,
   If I am correct, you too are a medical doctor.  How do you feel about someone from your profession looking down upon, and mocking people here on this board in a debate over a serious issue?  Would it not be better for all individuals for those with greater education on a subject attempt to help those with less education, rather than try to prove just how much more educated they are? 

The elitism from many doctors is embarassing to me. 

Thats correct, skip the elitism...and PRODUCE NAMES !!

[War-Horse]

This is getbig.  Were not here to be educated.   Throw your opinions out on this board, and wait for the attacks.

[nicorulez]

Johnny, now I know that you are espousing the use of AAS.  While I cannot in good conscious agree with you, I will provide with a review article that compared weightlifters who used steroids vs those who did not.  The steroid abusers had increased left ventricular hypertrophy (LVH).  If you know anything about cardiovascular risk profiles, LVH is considered a fairly strong risk factor for acute myocardial infarcts.  I am not stating that all bodybuilders who use get LVH or heart disease.  I just believe that the cavalier attitude that some of you have is irresponsible and plain foolish.  Thus, if you continue to inject unknown substances (yes, the steroids from Mexico are not always legit), at least get tested to make sure your system is doing alright.  I am not denouncing steroids; they are a drug that has clinical uses in the right setting.  However, the amount that national level and professional bodybuilders is akin to the five hundred pound junk food junkie in a candy shop; she can't eat only one (she probably also has type 2 diabetes  ).  Thus, I honestly believe that a controlled cycle with medical supervision is probably much less dangerous than smoking or drinking heavily daily.  However, I fear that young athletes and pro bb do not always exercise such caution and abuse the drug.  Any drug, even Advil  is very dangerous when used inappropriately.  So, I am not necessarily arguing with you, I am just advocating caution and the need to educate ones self about the potential risks.

http://heart.bmjjournals.com/cgi/content/full/90/5/473

http://www.nida.nih.gov/ResearchReports/Steroids/anabolicsteroids3.html

This last article although not definitive is interesting; look at what the medical examiner had to say.  All I can say is to be careful if you use.  If you refuse to believe me and something bad happens, do not say you had no idea.

http://www.usatoday.com/sports/2004-03-12-wrestling-list_x.htm

[nicorulez]

Eh Johnny, I guess I produced a couple of names.  Why would a twenty something die of a heart attack otherwise.  Oh well, you will continue to believe what you want.  Take care my friend and get your liver enzymes checked.