The IFBB pro rulebook - An Analysis...

[jwb]

This will prove nothing as YOU have broken many of these rules, Lee...and nothing was done.

Actually Chick, you and the entire PBBW show may be in breach of the ifbb pro rule book.

according to this document basically any criticism of the sport of bodybuilding by an ifbb athlete, official, judge is against the rules of the federation.... no negative comments are allowed at all!

not criticism of the ifbb but criticism of the sport in general is not allowed...

[Chick]

And this is the very point I've been trying to make...There are many rules the IFBB obviously chooses to not enforce...which each and every IFBB pro has been guilty of. But the point is, these rules about conduct, etc. are meant to be more of a guideline they can use at their discression, than an enforceable rule. No one is looking to suspend an athlete for voicing his/ her opinion on the outcome of a show, or someone doing a store opening at their local Max muscle.

Joining and competing in a rival federation on the other hand is a clear and concise infraction that they will enforce...the rules also state quite clearly that you "may be subject to...", which means they reserve the right to enforce, but don't have to do a damn thing if they so choose.

I've chosen to fight for the rights to make appearances, etc. in non sanctioned events as this affects the earning power to a much higher degree, than competing in other federations does.

[jwb]

Okay,

If anyone wants to take these fuckers to court it, according to them, has to take place only in a court in montreal, canada.

the pro league can drug test anybody at any time and it can be "targeted" not just random (sounds really unbiassed doesn't it...), in-competition or out-of-competition...

any behaviour can be deemed against the rules by the pro committee at any time and the committee can changed what they deem as behavious unbecoming a member whenever they like...

some of the other stuff is just AMAZINGLY unfair and unlawful it is incredible...

total stalinism

[240 is Back]

I've chosen to fight for the rights to make appearances, etc. in non sanctioned events as this affects the earning power to a much higher degree, than competing in other federations does.

This is true today.  However, if a green light were given, you'd certainly have a lot more pros than just the very berave lee, doing the PDI shows.  And the PDI would sell a lot more tickets in the Euro shows.  Which means more IFBB guys could earn $ on the side.

Bob, realize that many here who are beating up on you are not just 16-year old kids living in their basements.  You have educated people, somewhat wise to the ways of the world, seeing thru the facade you're trying to sell the public.  

When you say you want the atheltes to earn the most money possible, but won't work for them to be allowed to complete in a new federation run by the very guy who ran the IFBB shows very well for 20 years, you're insulting everyone's intelligence.

Seriously, everyone reads getbig.  And they all see thru the little word games we play.  Your IFBB bosses don't want guys doing the PDI shows, and you're doing nothing to change things to allow guys to earn real money.  O money went from $2k in 2005 to $4k in 2006.  hooray.  But a PDI Euro grand prix might be a slight help to a lot of guys too.  

[Ron]

Again and again - in college, you can't join two fraternities - that is a clear rule and one of the most sacred.

You also can't drink, haze, get copies of tests, take someone else's beer without asking, or sleep with someone's girl, but these are rarely enforced.

But join another fraternity while you are in one fraternity is a big no-no.

Why can't you understand this simple concept. The same applies to the IFBB. Same ideas too.

And once again, you choose to join this federation. You think it is unfair, don't joi. You think it is unlawfal. Don't join. Every year, it is up to you to join or not.  If you don't like it, then don't join.  Don't pay your dues at the beginning of the year. Same as a fraternity. You reap the benefits of the federation if you want to.

But I know that so many NPC members wish they can be good enough to join the elite IFBB, and agree to their rules. So simple, yet you make it so complicated.

Your IFBB bosses don't want guys doing the PDI shows, and you're doing nothing to change things to allow guys to earn real money.

They can do that show if they want - but if they join another fraternity - oops - federation - don't expect to be in the one they are in.

In my fraternity days, we had someone who pledged another fraternity. He has given the choice to stay or not. He asked the same question, why, and he was told because you need to support one or the other. Simple as that.

[jwb]

And this is the very point I've been trying to make...There are many rules the IFBB obviously chooses to not enforce...which each and every IFBB pro has been guilty of. But the point is, these rules about conduct, etc. are meant to be more of a guideline they can use at their discression, than an enforceable rule. No one is liooking to suspend an athlete for voicing his/ her opinion on the outcome of a show, or someone doing a store opening at their local Max muscle.

Joining and competing in a rival federation on the other hand is a clear and consise infraction that they will enforce...the rules also state quite clearly that you "may be subject to...", which means they reserve the right to enforce, but don't have to do a damn thing if they so choose.

I've chosen to fight for the rights to make appearances, etc. in non sanctioned events as this affects the earning power to a much higher degree, than competing in other federations does.



 

Of course lee will be suspended once he competes in the PDI but the point is how can the rule book be considered a legal document if ALL the other breaches of it ARE NOT enforced?

If he takes them to court with evidence of all these other breaches, including breaches by PBBW - according to the rule book - you really think the IFBB will win?

oh wait a minute the case would be in montreal where the IFBB probably has "friends" in high places...ie. the court system

[Has Beens]

Where does it state that one rule carries a lesser offense if broken than others ? This is the point Lee and others are trying to make. How can one be inforced and another not ? Where and how does "discretion" come into play ? Where is it stated what is inforcable and what is overlooked ?

[jwb]

Where does it state that one rule carries a lesser offense if broken than others ? This is the point Lee and others are trying to make. How can one be inforced and another not ? Where and how does "discretion" come into play ? Where is it stated what is inforcable and what is overlooked ?

exactly...

[240 is Back]

If the IFBB is a nonprofit organization, why would it care what it's guys do on the side to make money? 

Do Red Cross workers get mad if its employees do some charity work at the American Cancer Society on the weekends? 

Why would a Canadian nonprofit organization care at all, if its uncontracted and often unpaid members wanted to work for an American private sports company (the PDI)?

I cannot believe this hasn't come up yet.

[Ron]

Where does it state that one rule carries a lesser offense if broken than others ? This is the point Lee and others are trying to make. How can one be inforced and another not ? Where and how does "discretion" come into play ? Where is it stated what is inforcable and what is overlooked ?

Bob is stating it. Everyone is stating it. Everyone knows it. Simple as that.

Running a red light and almost hitting a car would get you a ticket much faster than speeding a little if a cop sees you.  Same analogy.

[jwb]

Again and again - in college, you can't join two fraternities - that is a clear rule and one of the most sacred.

You also can't drink, haze, get copies of tests, take someone else's beer without asking, or sleep with someone's girl, but these are rarely enforced.

But join another fraternity while you are in one fraternity is a big no-no.

Why can't you understand this simple concept. The same applies to the IFBB. Same ideas too.

And once again, you choose to join this federation. You think it is unfair, don't joi. You think it is unlawfal. Don't join. Every year, it is up to you to join or not.  If you don't like it, then don't join.  Don't pay your dues at the beginning of the year. Same as a fraternity. You reap the benefits of the federation if you want to.

But I know that so many NPC members wish they can be good enough to join the elite IFBB, and agree to their rules. So simple, yet you make it so complicated.

They can do that show if they want - but if they join another fraternity - oops - federation - don't expect to be in the one they are in.

In my fraternity days, we had someone who pledged another fraternity. He has given the choice to stay or not. He asked the same question, why, and he was told because you need to support one or the other. Simple as that.

We understand the logic Ron we just think it's bullshit

Bodybuilding is an INDIVIDUAL sport like golf, surfing, tennis etc.

In these sports the athletes get paid ZERO from their governing bodies but they compete wherever they want... imagine if the PGA told Tiger Woods he couldn't do an independant tournament/exhibition in Dubai or somewhere with a massive payday... he'd tell them to go fuck themselves and sue their asses off

[Chick]

Where does it state that one rule carries a lesser offense if broken than others ? This is the point Lee and others are trying to make. How can one be inforced and another not ? Where and how does "discretion" come into play ? Where is it stated what is inforcable and what is overlooked ?

Welcome to life.

Much like cops CHOOSE to enforce certain laws. Jaywalking is against the law technically, but rarely enforced...seat belts, "personal use" weed, rolling through a stop sign, speeding is a great example...you could pull someone over every 2 seconds for doing 3MPH over the limit, a clear violation of the LIMIT...but for obvious reasons, they don't.

[240 is Back]

Bob,

If the IFBB is a nonprofit organization, why would it care what it's guys do on the side to make money? 

Do Red Cross workers get mad if its employees do some charity work at the American Cancer Society on the weekends? 

Why would a Canadian nonprofit organization care at all, if its uncontracted and often unpaid members wanted to work for an American private sports company (the PDI)?

I cannot believe this hasn't come up yet.

[jwb]

The real point is that the IFBB isn't really a governing body of anything... the sport isn't even recognised as a sport.

The IFBB own the pro league and rule it with an iron fist... it has made them loads of money but they pay no tax on it... that would be interesting to investigate fully...

[Chick]

Bob,

If the IFBB is a nonprofit organization, why would it care what it's guys do on the side to make money? 

Do Red Cross workers get mad if its employees do some charity work at the American Cancer Society on the weekends? 

Why would a Canadian nonprofit organization care at all, if its uncontracted and often unpaid members wanted to work for an American private sports company (the PDI)?

I cannot believe this hasn't come up yet.

They don't care what you do on the side to make money...they care if you choose to support a DIFFERENT bodybuilding federation. Big Difference.

They run their club as an exclusive "members only". You join, you agree to abide by their rules. Simple as that. With paid dues comes opportunity exclusive to IFBB members...doors opening to supplement companies, increased exposure through their magazines, guest posing opportunities within the organization and sister NPC, etc.

THAT is why they run the federation the way they do. Vince T is a great example of that paying off, as he clearly See's the best opportunities have come from the IFBB and his being a part of it...according to him, the PDI has been nothing short of a bunch of broken promises and opportunities that have yet to materialize.

[G o a t b o y]

Bodybuilding is an INDIVIDUAL sport like golf, surfing, tennis etc.

In these sports the athletes get paid ZERO from their governing bodies but they compete wherever they want... imagine if the PGA told Tiger Woods he couldn't do an independant tournament/exhibition in Dubai or somewhere with a massive payday... he'd tell them to go f**k themselves and sue their asses off

Bingo.

[240 is Back]

They don't care what you do on the side to make money...they care if you choose to support a DIFFERENT bodybuilding federation. Big Difference.

They run their club as an exclusive "members only". You join, you agree to abide by their rules. Simple as that. With paid dues comes opportunity exclusive to IFBB members...doors opening to supplement companies, increased exposure through their magazines, guest posing opportunities within the organization and sister NPC, etc.

THAT is why they run the federation the way they do. Vince T is a great example of that paying off, as he clearly See's the best opportunities have come from the IFBB and his being a part of it...according to him, the PDI has been nothing short of a bunch of broken promises and opportunities that have yet to materialize.

But the IFBB is a CANADIAN NON PROFIT ORGANIZATION.

Why would they care what an American For-Proft company does? 

They're not competing in a market outside of their classification, are they?

[Has Beens]

Bob is stating it. Everyone is stating it. Everyone knows it. Simple as that.

Running a red light and almost hitting a car would get you a ticket much faster than speeding a little if a cop sees you.  Same analogy.

Because Bob is stating something does not make it fact.....we have all seen that to be true. Bob, thanks for welcoming me to "life", but I have been here already for quite some time. Bottom line is that the punishment ( if it ever does happen) will be only an attempt to make an example out someone crossing over to another organization. I could give two shits about the PDI, but I do feel strongly as the "athlete`s rep" you should be representing the athletes, not a spokesperson for the IFBB.

[onlyme]

You want to start shit with the IFBB. Make some phone calls to the IRS, send them letters and email them.  Tell them the situation with the IFBB.  Make sure you mention you pay them $200 a year for membership in their organizaton.  Tell them you have not recieved any tax forms from them.  Not sure about this one but as a not for profit organization isn't the money you give them a tax-deductible donation.  Give the IRS a list of promoters and see if those promoters paid tax on the sanction fees they sent the IFBB.  If not then we all know the IFBB did not pay the tax on the sanction fee.  So who is repsonsible.  The IRS is probably a little disturb that $10,000+ at a time is leaving the country without being taxed.  Now this has been going on for how long.  We are talking millions of dollars the IFBB owes in taxes.  If not then each promoter is liable for the taxes.  Someone is responsible.

[Chick]

Because Bob is stating something does not make it fact.....we have all seen that to be true. Bob, thanks for welcoming me to "life", but I have been here already for quite some time. Bottom line is that the punishment ( if it ever does happen) will be only an attempt to make an example out someone crossing over to another organization. I could give two shits about the PDI, but I do feel strongly as the "athlete`s rep" you should be representing the athletes, not a spokesperson for the IFBB.

I do represent the athletes, within the IFBB. That means I can't be a "rebel without a cause"...I have to work within the rules that have been set forth, and bring the voice of the athletes to the brass when something needs to be addressed or changed.

So far, I'll let my record speak for itself. If and when the athletes decide that being allowed to compete in different federations is their wish...it will be presented without hesitation.

[Has Beens]

I do represent the athletes, within the IFBB. That means I can't be a "rebel without a cause"...I have to work within the rules that have been set forth, and bring the voice of the athletes to the brass when something needs to be addressed or changed.

So far, I'll let my record speak for itself. If and when the athletes decide that being allowed to compete in different federations is their wish...it will be presented without hesitation.

I know what you are saying and acknowladge that you are at times between a rock and a hard place.....but there is way too much grey area here and always will be.

[jwb]

I do represent the athletes, within the IFBB. That means I can't be a "rebel without a cause"...I have to work within the rules that have been set forth, and bring the voice of the athletes to the brass when something needs to be addressed or changed.

So far, I'll let my record speak for itself. If and when the athletes decide that being allowed to compete in different federations is their wish...it will be presented without hesitation.

Could a proposal like this be presented with the athletes names suppressed from the IFBB brass?

[jwb]

You want to start shit with the IFBB. Make some phone calls to the IRS, send them letters and email them.  Tell them the situation with the IFBB.  Make sure you mention you pay them $200 a year for membership in their organizaton.  Tell them you have not recieved any tax forms from them.  Not sure about this one but as a not for profit organization isn't the money you give them a tax-deductible donation.  Give the IRS a list of promoters and see if those promoters paid tax on the sanction fees they sent the IFBB.  If not then we all know the IFBB did not pay the tax on the sanction fee.  So who is repsonsible.  The IRS is probably a little disturb that $10,000+ at a time is leaving the country without being taxed.  Now this has been going on for how long.  We are talking millions of dollars the IFBB owes in taxes.  If not then each promoter is liable for the taxes.  Someone is responsible.

Keith,

ask wayne where the $200,000 a year he paid to the weiders in sanction fee to promote the olympia went every year?

[Mr. Intenseone]

And this is the very point I've been trying to make...There are many rules the IFBB obviously chooses to not enforce...which each and every IFBB pro has been guilty of. But the point is, these rules about conduct, etc. are meant to be more of a guideline they can use at their discression, than an enforceable rule. No one is looking to suspend an athlete for voicing his/ her opinion on the outcome of a show, or someone doing a store opening at their local Max muscle.

Joining and competing in a rival federation on the other hand is a clear and concise infraction that they will enforce...the rules also state quite clearly that you "may be subject to...", which means they reserve the right to enforce, but don't have to do a damn thing if they so choose.

I've chosen to fight for the rights to make appearances, etc. in non sanctioned events as this affects the earning power to a much higher degree, than competing in other federations does.

Are you freaking kidding me, what do you mean "There are many rules the IFBB chose not to enforce"? The "IFBB" chose not to enforce the entire articals on drug use and the code of ethics. Example 2 is a perfect example where it states "to honor, dignify and support the sport of bodybuilding", this is just an example of how the "sport" is being honered, I post this not to be funny but to make a point........
The people who are supposed to enforce the rules are turning their backs on the rules and killing the compeitors and the industry...congrats, you're killing two birds with boulder!

Is this "dignified"?

[240 is Back]

Are you freaking kidding me, what do you mean "There are many rules the IFBB chose not to enforce"? The "IFBB" chose not to enforce the entire articals on drug use and the code of ethics. Example 2 is a perfect example where it states "to honor, dignify and support the sport of bodybuilding", this is just an example of how the "sport" is being honered, I post this not to be funny but to make a point........
The people who are supposed to enforce the rules are turning their backs on the rules and killing the compeitors and the industry...congrats, you're killing two birds with boulder!

Is this "dignified"?

LMAO... this sport gets funnier and funnier every day. 

Epic dignity.