The IFBB pro rulebook - An Analysis...

[240 is Back]

It has no credence, as the rules specifically state..." may be subject to being fined, suspended, etc"....

That means they retain the right, but are not bound to. Yes, that means they can pick and choose what rules to enforce.

There are also other athletes that have been suspended/ fined for competing in non sanctioned shows, thus setting a precedent.

Imagine the the NFL banned Ricky WIlliams for a year for weed, but publicly admitted to letting Peyton Manning slide on a coke charge lol...

And relaly, the defending of selective enforcement should be coming from the mouth of an IFBB official - NOT and athletes rep>  The atheltes rep should be standing up shouting about the unfairness of selective enforcement.

Chic, you're becoming a walking joke here, even in the eyes of your diehard fans.  

[thisiskeith12]

I'm sure they dont...It's my OPINION, and ONLY my opinion...that they do nothing on the womens porn issue because if they did enforce it, the entire womens division would collapse. That would be unfortunate for those who don't dabble in the schmo/ porn field.

I do know that Betty pariso (IFBB women's rep) is preparing/ attempting to change that.

What about Rodney St. Cloud? And other male competitors that have dipped into a little porno earnings?

[ieffinhatecardio]

I agree...whay are you arguing with me?

This post is classic.

Chick is just flabbergasted that a Chickophant would post anything even remotely argumentative about him.

[thisiskeith12]

This post is classic.

Chick is just flabbergasted that a Chickophant would post anything even remotely argumentative about him.

Things are blatently ignored!

[Chick]

Imagine the the NFL banned Ricky WIlliams for a year for weed, but publicly admitted to letting Peyton Manning slide on a coke charge lol...

And relaly, the defending of selective enforcement should be coming from the mouth of an IFBB official - NOT and athletes rep>  The atheltes rep should be standing up shouting about the unfairness of selective enforcement.

Chic, you're becoming a walking joke here, even in the eyes of your diehard fans. 

Are you Joking? Remember the Steve Howe "banned from baseball for life 8 times story? Pete Rose alledgedly bet on baseball and has STILL not been let back in...there are examples all over the place....

I'm merely giving you the reality of the situation, I didn't say I applaud it.

Standing up and shouting is exactly what Lee does....it gets nothing accomplished and falls on deaf ears. I go through the proper channels and put it on paper and submit it to make change for ALL...not one not me....ALL IFBB Pro's.

[thisiskeith12]

Are you Joking? Remember the Steve Howe "banned from baseball for life 8 times story? Pete Rose alledgedly bet on baseball and has STILL not been let back in...there are examples all over the place....

I'm merely giving you the reality of the situation, I didn't say I applaud it.

Standing up and shouting is exactly what Lee does....it gets nothing accomplished and falls on deaf ears. I go through the proper channels and put it on paper and submit it to make change for ALL...not one not me....ALL IFBB Pro's.

A large number of fans feel Rose should be in the Hall and many experts and analysts say he deserves to be in.

[onlyme]

hahaha Imagine another sport where they choose to enforce some rules and not others.....FUCKING PATHETIC.

Could you imagine baseball, football or basketball or even golf picking and choosing what rules to enforce.  A guy clearly steps out of bounds running down the field for a towndown, the refs don't call it cause they decided that day you can do that.  Or the ump calls a ball that hits the foul pole a foul ball becasue that day they didn't want to call it a home run.  Yep the IFBB picks and coosed what rules they want to enforce.  Please the guys who compare BB to any real sport, please do not do this again.  It embarrases real sports.  Hell ESPN or the local news in Vegas doesn't even report who wins the Mr. Olympia.  Face it, the IFBB is a company that the Weiders started so they can see muscled guy in speedos and make allot of money.  They control it and whatever happens in it is their fault.  Anyone who thinks Wayne was in charge of what happened in the IFBB is truly dellusional. EVERYONE knows Weider was the boss and Wayne did exactly what he was told to do.  WHen he decided he no longer wanted to do what they ask he left.  That's simple.

[Special Ed]

The only thing that makes this debate interesting is the very real possibility that the IFBB and NPC power-that-be are concerned about facing a legal challenge that would require them to open their books and be subject to intense scrutiny. There's no way a steroid-laden non-profit organization wants media attention in this age of steroid-hysteria. Hopefully, Lee's attorneys are poised to do battle.

Special "Court TV" Ed

[DonDan]

Enquiring minds want to know. As per the following section of the IFBBPro rules:

34.11 Refund Policy:
Once the organizer pays the Pro League the total sum of the prize money, that money cannot be returned to the organizer for any reason. If, for any reason, the organizer cancels the competition, the total sum of the prize money is distributed in equal amounts to each of the competitors who signed a contract to participate in the competition.

Did that money get distributed to the athletes when the Toronto Pro was cancelled? I guess I'll wait and see if this gets deleted.

[240 is Back]

Toronto Pro promoter Winston Smith had never paid the fee, despite his 2004 cancellation, one month out from the show.

Ask Mike/1Fast400 when his promoter fee was due.

[DonDan]

Toronto Pro promoter Winston Smith had never paid the fee, despite his 2004 cancellation, one month out from the show.

Ask Mike/1Fast400 when his promoter fee was due.

Actually this has nothing to do with the sanctioning fee. This has to do with the prize money which the rules say I believe the money has to be paid to the IFBB 60 days prior to the event. Yes I found it, it's 60 days.

Article 35 – Payment of Fees and Fines
35.1 Payment of Fees and Fines:
4. Prize money must be paid in full no later than sixty days before the date
scheduled for the event.

[lastrep]

Lee, stay strong.. change will happen with your efforts. It's about time someone stood up and PROVED how the 'rules' are not enforced strictly or legally. The fact that we hear "There are many rules the IFBB obviously chooses to not enforce" proves it's a scam. Not once have we heard the answer as to why some rules are being followed and some not.. if we get a "that's life" response (which is truly immature and and a cop-out) then the rules document is not legal and you have EVERY right to take this to court and easily win.

[Adam Empire]

Great thread - how did it not get discussed earlier?

BTW...  If a pro competes clean and takes last, can he sue?  If the lack of enforcement (drug testing) ruins his earning ability, placing, and winnings?

[DonDan]

Actually this has nothing to do with the sanctioning fee. This has to do with the prize money which the rules say I believe the money has to be paid to the IFBB 60 days prior to the event. Yes I found it, it's 60 days.

Article 35 – Payment of Fees and Fines
35.1 Payment of Fees and Fines:
4. Prize money must be paid in full no later than sixty days before the date
scheduled for the event.

By the way, just in case someone like chic or lift, or shawn comes back with "no money was collected or given to the IFBB by the promoter" then I think that all the athletes who had contracts to compete should sue the IFBB for negligence because of the prize money they failed to collect, and the remedy should be A) the original prize money B) courtcosts and reasonable attorney fees C) damages in the form of mental anguish cause by both the promoter for cancelling the show and the IFBB for not enforcing their own rules.

[jwb]

The potholes in the rule book are starting to open up big time...but bigger questions are starting to emerge.

The IFBB defintely needs to be investigated by a higher authority in regards to it's business dealings. If they were paying taxes on all this sanction money then fair enough but I highly doubt it.

Also, since they are a canadian non profit organisation are they even allowed to conduct "fund raisers" - which is what contests for them basically are - in countries outside canada? probably not unless they register with the tax office of those specific countries.

[The True Adonis]

Great thread - how did it not get discussed earlier?

BTW...  If a pro competes clean and takes last, can he sue?  If the lack of enforcement (drug testing) ruins his earning ability, placing, and winnings?

damn good question!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[alexxx]

First off,

Where the hell are they?

If you go to the IFBB.com site you get a link to the rules of the IFBB and you click on a PDF file which is a lengthy document which is clearly the IFBB "AMATEUR" rule book mainly referring to issues in regards to the IFBB world championships - Ben Weider's baby

Chick, does this rulebook apply to the pros?

I was looking for the same thing when I was about to turn pro.

[Lee_a_priest]

and you just supported my argument...thank you. So you agree that they could give you a ticket, but choose not to, right?

Listen, I'm not arguing the point that certain rules are enforced, while others are not...I'm pointing out that  there is a bigger value put on some laws/ rules  more than others

I'm not quite sure why you're arguing with me, as It's not going to change the inevitable...you should be trying to convince your peers to support your platform and vote to change the rules.

I highly suggest you get everyone in your corner to attend the next athletes meeting, where it can be put to vote and submitted for consideration.THAT'S how things get accomplished...

No i am saying they let you go 10-12 miles over due to different tire size .all makes and modles have different speEdo calibrations so to say it's 60 and someone is doing 65 on thier radar but in the car thier speedo might say 60.So they let you go 10 or so that way they know you are way ove.IT HAS NOTHING TO DO WITH THE IFBB RULES YOU DUMB IDIOT WE TAKE DRUGS KNOW FACT,PEOPLE ARE NAKED ON VIDEO AND IN PRINT,PEOPLE HAVE BAD MOUTHED EACH OTHER AND CONTESTS ETC BUT COMPETE IN A DIFFERENT SHOW AND THE RULES SUDDENLY APPEAR TO BE UPHELD COME ON IT'S A JOKE JUST ADMITT IT.

[jwb]

No i am saying they let you go 10-12 miles over due to different tire size .all makes and modles have different spedo calibrations so to say it's 60 and someone is doing 65 on thier radar but in the car thier speedo might say 60.So they let you go 10 or so that way they know you are way ove.IT HAS NOTHING TO DO WITH THE IFFBB RULES YOU DUMB IDIOT WE TAKE DRUGS KNOW FACT,PEOPLE ARE NAKED ON VIDEO AND IN PRINT,PEOLE HAVE BAD MOUTHED EACH OTHER AND CONTESTS ETC BUT COMPETE IN A DIFFERENT SHOW AND THE RULES SUDDENLY APPEAR TO BE UPHELD COME ON IT'S A JOKE JUST ADMITT IT.

I hope Chick realises the shit storm that is going to erupt if the IFBB do ban/fine Lee for doing the PDI show...

The most popular athlete in the entire sport from a fan perspective - easy the most popular - being thrown out for trying to raise money for his new foundation aimed at promoting the sport on a grassroots level...

the backlash will be huge...

[240 is Back]

I hope Chick realises the shit storm that is going to erupt if the IFBB do ban/fine Lee for doing the PDI show...

The most popular athlete in the entire sport from a fan perspective - easy the most popular - being thrown out for trying to raise money for his new foundation aimed at promoting the sport on a grassroots level...

the backlash will be huge...

I love the internet and grassroots fan movements.  Web really is the great equalizer.

[Amir Hamzic]

if rules are rules well then they should enforce all of them instead of only enforcing what is of benefit to ifbb.If athletes are independent contractors why cant they earn outside??doesnt hurt other sports if ifbb allowed that it would make things lot easier for all involved.

[jwb]

I love the internet and grassroots fan movements.  Web really is the great equalizer.

Ron is the guy we need to thank robbie...

[Adam Empire]

If a pro competes clean and takes last, can he sue?  If the lack of enforcement (drug testing) ruins his earning ability, placing, and winnings?

Again, can somebody shed some light on this?  What if they obvious rule infractions in golf were let go (say no penality stroke for a water shot) for only some competitors.  Could this type of thing go to court if those that followed the rules were FINANCIALLY affected?  It seems to me like they could - perhaps on a discrimination angle even...

[Chick]

Again, can somebody shed some light on this?  What if they obvious rule infractions in golf were let go (say no penality stroke for a water shot) for only some competitors.  Could this type of thing go to court if those that followed the rules were FINANCIALLY affected?  It seems to me like they could - perhaps on a discrimination angle even...

The difference is...a penalty stroke affects the outcome of the competition, whether or not someone had naked pictures for sale does not.

[Chick]

Great thread - how did it not get discussed earlier?

BTW...  If a pro competes clean and takes last, can he sue?  If the lack of enforcement (drug testing) ruins his earning ability, placing, and winnings?

Sue on what basis? All athletes are subject to testing. Any enforcement or lack therof, is on level playing field.