The IFBB pro rulebook - An Analysis...

[Mr. Intenseone]

I really don't understand you guys here. Is the IFBB/system perfect? I agree: no way, far atfrom it. Is Bob Chick doing a crappy job as rep? No way, far from it. He's done a LOT with what little he's been given. Remember, as athlete rep Shawn Ray said he got nothing done because the position was powerless and no one would listen to him. Well, Bob Chick took that position and as he pointed out, brought health insurance to the athletes as well as money for all non-placing athletes (in addition to other things). That's pretty impressive.

And while I am all for competition (and hope the PDI brings good benefits for bodybuilders), is it a mere coincidence that Wayne leaves the IFBB and suddenly the athlete rep is able to get those benefits for the bodybuilders?

It's not the argument whether the IFBB is perfect.  Of course it's not.  Nothing is perfect.  We're not saying that Bob is doing a bad job...at least I'm not saying that...but what we are saying is, follow the rules.  If the rules are followed (and I do understand that they cannot always be followed to a T) it will in fact make the industry better and...again, somewhat legit and more appealing to the general public and thus, create more revenue.

[donrhummy]

It's not the argument whether the IFBB is perfect.  Of course it's not.  Nothing is perfect.  We're not saying that Bob is doing a bad job...at least I'm not saying that...but what we are saying is, follow the rules.  If the rules are followed (and I do understand that they cannot always be followed to a T) it will in fact make the industry better and...again, somewhat legit and more appealing to the general public and thus, create more revenue.

Really? Look at the rulebook and show me where in there it states ANYTHING that has to do with judging a physique (i.e. how to decide which physique is better than another).

[240 is Back]

Bob, I saw you repeatedly ask me a question about something Wayne did in 2003 or 2004, and I have no clue.  I was not involved.  If you want to know, email him.  If you just want to insult and embarass him, then keep asking kids on the web. 

Bottom line, bob, is that there seems to be a split.  You have done some good things as athletes rep.  Athletes and fans appreciate that, and you do work hard.  But your actions in the Lee Priest case have left you labeled way closer to IFBB rep than Athletes Rep. Even by your most ardent supporters here.

I don't really want to spend the next 2 months arguing this with you.  We have philosophical differences in beliefs, and that is fine.  I believe competition in the marketplace will make the IFBB give more prize money and put on better shows. You do not.  Okay, we have different opinions.  I don't think a nonprofit Can. org should be able to stop a guy from earning $ from a company in the US.  You do.  Okay, we have differing views.

Bottom line is that we both do care about the atheltes getting more money and having more opportunities. 

[Chick]

The question was asked because you like to sling mud at the IFBB, yet fail to ask the same hard questions to Wayne or the PDI...WHY?

Keith does the same thing...putting a post up about what the IFBB does NOT offer, yet failing to recognize the PDI offers nothing more than the IFBB does, sans competing where ever they want...

Of course they don't restrict their athletes from competing elsewhere...they are looking to START a federation, they have no choice.

[240 is Back]

The question was asked because you like to sling mud at the IFBB, yet fail to ask the same hard questions to Wayne or the PDI...WHY?

Keith does the same thing...putting a post up about what the IFBB does NOT offer, yet failing to recognize the PDI offers nothing more than the IFBB does, sans competing where ever they want...

Of course they don't restrict their athletes from competing elsewhere...they are looking to START a federation, they have no choice.

Bob, if there was no IFBB and only the PDI, I would be working with you to START the new IFBB.  You see, I have nothing against the IFBB- I just KNOW that 2 competitors in a field will benefit athletes and fans.  That's why I want a PDI- because it means more money for the guys competing.  95% of them can't earning a living from competing- and that should change. With only one BBing federation, that will not change.

There are a million people here to sling mud at the PDI.  You just listed everything they don't offer.  And that is fine- the point of message boards is to entertain and get thr truth out there, and it is very true- the PDI is still a very incomplete thing.  We don't know what will happen with it.  We don't know if it iwll be better or worse than the IFBB, or if it will survive at all.  So I'm NOT blindly supporting the PDi.  When there are holes in it, I admit it.  I am not a blind wayne lackey. 

I just want to see more money pumped into the sport, which can allow more of these guys to make a living from it.  Bbers make more sacrifices than athletes in just about any other sport.  Yet most of them are broke.  Yes, the O money went up from 2k to 4k this year. but those men who have qualified have ALREADY gotten a check for their placing.  80% of the IFBB guys don't make a penny from competing, not a cent. 

So let's stop making this a PDI/IFBB battle- because it's not.  It's about getting more opportunities for the athletes to make a living.

[Adam Empire]

The question was asked because you like to sling mud at the IFBB, yet fail to ask the same hard questions to Wayne or the PDI...WHY?

Keith does the same thing...putting a post up about what the IFBB does NOT offer, yet failing to recognize the PDI offers nothing more than the IFBB does, sans competing where ever they want...

Of course they don't restrict their athletes from competing elsewhere...they are looking to START a federation, they have no choice.

Bob, this question is not to dis-respect you in any way.  I am just looking for an honest answer (I don't do long winded threads like 240  )

Anyway...  Being the athletes rep, why do you defend the IFBB rule book and it's current enforcement the way you have?  You don't work for the IFBB, didn't write the rules, and have no power over it's enforcement.  But why so much defence of the rules that have been broken and non-enforced so many times that they are meaningless?  I would think that you would look at a thread like this a say, "Hey, looks like this book is open to be selectively enforced and could cost the athletes I represent money if they follow the rules.  Maybe I should address this."

Will you be addressing these things (to whatever the correct forum is) to perhaps look into enforcing some of these?

[Original Sin]

Everybody should really take a close look at the IFBB rule book.  Right at the very beginning it states that the rules are not cast in stone and each situation is open for interpretation.

So by this Lee is right saying that Ben fined him, because it is the President sole authority to interpret any matter arising out of the rules.  On the other hand Lee really has no basis for a case of any kind because he has agreed to this set of guidelines and its interpretations for many years.

I would love to be Lee’s Lawyer and pocket his money on a no-win scenario though.

1.4 Definitions:
The same definitions that are found in the Constitution also apply
to the Rules. The Code of Ethics, which forms an integral part of
the Constitution, also forms an integral part of the Rules and is
attached as Appendix 1.
1.5 Interpretation:
It is recognized that the Rules cannot encompass every possible
situation wherein written guidance might be sought in the
resolution of an issue. In such cases, the President has sole
authority to interpret any matter arising out of the Rules, or any
matter not encompassed by the Rules, said interpretation to be
final and binding.
1.6 Intent:
It is not intended that the Rules be considered as "cast in stone"
but instead, as guidelines. Each and every issue arising out of the
Rules must be judged on its own merits with the primary
consideration given to that which is in the best interests of the
sport of Bodybuilding.

[Chick]

I don't defend the rules...I explain them. There is a difference.

I can't be the "rebel without a cause" like Lee is...I can appreciate Lee's passion for the sport, but there is a chain of command that must be followed and a procedure to getting rules changed/ enforced, etc.

There are rules I don't agree with, and I submit proposals on behalf of the athletes to change those rules. I also take into consideration, the wishes of the athletes as a WHOLE, not the one.

As for the current rules reguarding conduct, etc. Why would I challenge them? They don't enforce them anyway...I'm much more concerned about making it possible for the athletes to make appearances, give seminars, guest pose, perform, etc in non sanctioned events, than I am about competing in rival federations...which 1 person has expressed an interest in so far.

[Chick]

Everybody should really take a close look at the IFBB rule book.  Right at the very beginning it states that the rules are not cast in stone and each situation is open for interpretation.

So by this Lee is right saying that Ben fined him, because it is the President sole authority to interpret any matter arising out of the rules.  On the other hand Lee really has no basis for a case of any kind because he has agreed to this set of guidelines and its interpretations for many years.

I would love to be Lee’s Lawyer and pocket his money on a no-win scenario though.

1.4 Definitions:
The same definitions that are found in the Constitution also apply
to the Rules. The Code of Ethics, which forms an integral part of
the Constitution, also forms an integral part of the Rules and is
attached as Appendix 1.
1.5 Interpretation:
It is recognized that the Rules cannot encompass every possible
situation wherein written guidance might be sought in the
resolution of an issue. In such cases, the President has sole
authority to interpret any matter arising out of the Rules, or any
matter not encompassed by the Rules, said interpretation to be
final and binding.
1.6 Intent:
It is not intended that the Rules be considered as "cast in stone"
but instead, as guidelines. Each and every issue arising out of the
Rules must be judged on its own merits with the primary
consideration given to that which is in the best interests of the
sport of Bodybuilding.

As I've been stating from day 1...the phrase "may be subject to..." tells the story. The IFBB can selectively enforce whichever rules they deem to be of greater importance.

[Adam Empire]

I don't defend the rules...I explain them. There is a difference.

I can't be the "rebel without a cause" like Lee is...I can appreciate Lee's passion for the sport, but there is a chain of command that must be followed and a procedure to getting rules changed/ enforced, etc.

There are rules I don't agree with, and I submit proposals on behalf of the athletes to change those rules. I also take into consideration, the wishes of the athletes as a WHOLE, not the one.

As for the current rules reguarding conduct, etc. Why would I challenge them? They don't enforce them anyway...I'm much more concerned about making it possible for the athletes to make appearances, give seminars, guest pose, perform, etc in non sanctioned events, than I am about competing in rival federations...which 1 person has expressed an interest in so far.

Thanks for the response.  I would still be concerned with the "They don't enforce them anyway", but that's just my opinion  

[Mr. Intenseone]

As I've been stating from day 1...the phrase "may be subject to..." tells the story. The IFBB can selectively enforce whichever rules they deem to be of greater importance.

Then it's pretty evident that the "Code of Ethics" and the "Drug Testing".......the two things that should be of the utmost importance are the least important. But lets face it, drugs are going to be in any sports some more obvious than others. But the code of ethics.....that should be enforced to the fullest extent of the rule book!

[onlyme]

Point being Keith, IFBB has been around for 75+ years and hasn't done a fraction of what skatebording has done in 15years...shit, even 5 years for that matter!

I agree 100%. 

[onlyme]

Everybody should really take a close look at the IFBB rule book.  Right at the very beginning it states that the rules are not cast in stone and each situation is open for interpretation.

So by this Lee is right saying that Ben fined him, because it is the President sole authority to interpret any matter arising out of the rules.  On the other hand Lee really has no basis for a case of any kind because he has agreed to this set of guidelines and its interpretations for many years.

I would love to be Lee’s Lawyer and pocket his money on a no-win scenario though.

1.4 Definitions:
The same definitions that are found in the Constitution also apply
to the Rules. The Code of Ethics, which forms an integral part of
the Constitution, also forms an integral part of the Rules and is
attached as Appendix 1.
1.5 Interpretation:
It is recognized that the Rules cannot encompass every possible
situation wherein written guidance might be sought in the
resolution of an issue. In such cases, the President has sole
authority to interpret any matter arising out of the Rules, or any
matter not encompassed by the Rules, said interpretation to be
final and binding.
1.6 Intent:
It is not intended that the Rules be considered as "cast in stone"
but instead, as guidelines. Each and every issue arising out of the
Rules must be judged on its own merits with the primary
consideration given to that which is in the best interests of the
sport of Bodybuilding.

Thank you Mr. Manion for explaining this

[Chick]

Basically the PDI is a company that charges it employees to work for them. The employees do all the work, do all the promoting and take all the sacrifices while the employer (PDI) reaps all the riches with absolutely 100% indemnity(?).It's really that simple.  And even worse than an employer cause for all the employees do to promote the employer and them money they recieve nothing back.

No pay
No insurance
No retirement fund
No security
No support
No legal counsel
No freedom
No profit sharing
No Christmas Party
No paid vacations
No per diem
No residuals
No roid allowance

So basically the BB's who compete in the PDI are.....................




Here you go KEITH, Just though I would help you out a little...

[LLES]

Besides charging 200 a yr for your Pro Card, of the things you listed,what does the IFBB do for the athletes?

[Chick]

Besides charging 200 a yr for your Pro Card, of the things you listed,what does the IFBB do for the athletes?

Nothing, except give opportunity...

This was Keith's original post, I figured I would post it rather than explain it...




onlyme
Getbig V

Posts: 8523


Don't f**k With Bears


   
   
Re: IFBB Rules? Is Lee Priest right?
« Reply #6 on: Today at 12:54:34 AM »
   Quote Remove
Basically the IFBB is a company that charges it employees to work for them. The employees do all the work, do all the promoting and take all the sacrifices while the employer (IFBB) reaps all the riches with absolutely 100% indemnity(?).It's really that simple.  And even worse than an employer cause for all the employees do to promote the employer and them money they recieve nothing back.

No pay
No insurance
No retirement fund
No security
No support
No legal counsel
No freedom
No profit sharing
No Christmas Party
No paid vacations
No per diem
No residuals
No roid allowance

So basically the BB's who compete in the IFBB are..................... ..........

[dearth]

Besides charging 200 a yr for your Pro Card, of the things you listed,what does the IFBB do for the athletes?

According to Bob, he gets to attend a christmas party

[dearth]

Bob,

the IFBB selective application of their rulebook, and blatant promotion of drug usage
does not bode well for any court case (remember Jay Cutler?), regarding their "rules".
There is no clearly defined hieracrchy of importance to their rules, that you had mentioned.
I do not think the IFBB lawyers can reference Bob C's "welcome to life" statement as a guidline
for determining which rules can and cannot be enforced.

[Chick]

Bob,

the IFBB selective application of their rulebook, and blatant promotion of drug usage
does not bode well for any court case (remember Jay Cutler?), regarding their "rules".
There is no clearly defined hieracrchy of importance to their rules, that you had mentioned.
I do not think the IFBB lawyers can reference Bob C's "welcome to life" statement as a guidline
for determining which rules can and cannot be enforced.

The IFBB is a private company, and thus can pick and choose what they wish to enforce...the IFBB lawyers can simply refer to the phrases, "may be subject to..." and "we reserve the right..."

BTW, there is no blatent promotion of drug use, there are clear cut rules the can enforce IF THEY WISH to, at any time...

Are you seeing the light now?

[dearth]

The IFBB is a private company, and thus can pick and choose what they wish to enforce...the IFBB lawyers can simply refer to the phrases, "may be subject to..." and "we reserve the right..."

BTW, there is no blatent promotion of drug use, there are clear cut rules the can enforce IF THEY WISH to, at any time...

Are you seeing the light now?

Chick, they seem to have left out "private company" in this description...

"The IFBB is a legal entity under the laws of the Government of Canada, founded in 1946 and federally incorporated as a not-for-profit organization"

The promotion of drug use by the IFBB isn't too terribly difficult to discern... just drug test any IFBB 'athlete' at a contest, per the rules.
that begs the question Chick, why doens't the ifbb enforce their own rules??

BTW- if the the IFBB lawyers have such an upper hand with this "loophole" of yours, then how did Cutler scare the IFBB into throwing out his failed drug tests at the 2001 olympia?

[jaejonna]

I hope Lee take you ass holes to court, they will reach a verdict in his favor. Your Jim Crowe laws are BS. When a governing body, private or public decides to pick and choose which law is enforceable and which arent, then all those laws are void.

Lee was talking about following the RULES...plain and simple, but puppet and rat cant talk about RULES , they talk about one specific rule as if it is better than the others....

[Chick]

Chick, they seem to have left out "private company" in this description...

"The IFBB is a legal entity under the laws of the Government of Canada, founded in 1946 and federally incorporated as a not-for-profit organization"

The promotion of drug use by the IFBB isn't too terribly difficult to discern... just drug test any IFBB 'athlete' at a contest, per the rules.
that begs the question Chick, why doens't the ifbb enforce their own rules??

BTW- if the the IFBB lawyers have such an upper hand with this "loophole" of yours, then how did Cutler scare the IFBB into throwing out his failed drug tests at the 2001 olympia?

Simple...Jay beat them at their own game.

The drug testing was supposed to be from an accredited IOC lab...it wasn't.

Thus the drug test could not be enforced.

[rockandrollfreak]

Chick,

Is the IFBB helping Cormier out at all with his medical bills due to his recent spinal infection?  He was in the hospital for quite some time and told me he was trying to get home care because the hospital was costing him way too much.  Did the IFBB Benefits package help him out at all?

[timfogarty]

"The IFBB is a legal entity under the laws of the Government of Canada, founded in 1946 and federally incorporated as a not-for-profit organization"

btw, there is no evidence that the IFBB was founded in 1946.  Dan Lurie used the name first for his Jan 1948 contest.  The first Weider IFBB contest was in May 1948.

The first international congress of nationall IFBB chapters was 1964.

A search of Canadian records show the IFBB was incorporated on December 30, 1969.

[figgs]

Imagine this now. A person dedicates himself to bodybuilding 100%. Trains with the intensity enough to fall an elephant, eats according to the clock and sets a bedtime. He loves bodybuilding. LOVES bodybuilding for whatever reason. It's what makes him happy.

Unfortunately, he dreams of becoming the best bodybuilder in the world. He's been told that he was meant to achieve this sometime in his life. He knows that if he wanted he could actually become a professional bodybuilder.

He has a difficult decision to make. That is to take an illegal drug to enter a legal industry. He knows he HAS to take steroids to compete with the pros! Know why? Because EVERY OTHER PRO HE MIGHT EVER COMPETE WITH ALSO TAKES STEROIDS. OK, everyone reading this knows that already but that fact is far more significant than it's perceived by the public (because bodybuilding remains unknown).

If he is intelligent, this person will accept bodybuilding as nothing more than a lifestyle or hobby. As long as he has his options, pursuing a position on the pro ranks in bodybuilding will be something he will forever regret. Dedicating himself to what he loves to do will get him nothing in life because:
1.) He's risking his health/life
2.) He will make no money at all unless he chooses to up his doses of anabolic steroids (increasing the likelihood of reason #1).
3.) He might die living with regret over his career choice.

I'm glad to have the ability to accept all of this as a fact, as it remains to be for now, so that I'm sure to be able to explore more options to choose a respectable profession to dedicate my life to. What I'm saying is that deep in my heart I love bodybuilding and to not be able to put that part of my heart into this sport is something I have to will myself to do for my own good.

I'd like to share an excerpt from Bob Paris' Gorilla Suit, one that changed the direction of my life and put me into better perspective as to what I should do with it.

"A vision-a fantastical, imaginary movie clip-has continually run through my mind during the last year. I am climbing, climbing, climbing all alone, to the top of this enormous mountain. I fall sometimes-a lot, actually; hurt myself; get up; climb some more; fall down again. It seems as if I've been climbing this mountain forever. After a while, when I'm close enough to the top to see it through breaks in the cloud cover, I pull out my map, to see where I am and discover that I've gone up the wrong mountain. Now, this mountain that I'm on is a high one-I can tell this from the map it's every bit as high as the one I thought I was climbing. It's just not the right one. The other mountain is the one that many dream of climbing because the hand of fate has lent it greater prestige. It is easy to get them confused; the way my map is drawn the two look a great deal alike. But it's still the wrong one. And I get mad at myself, and I cuss out the mountain, and I cuss out the mapmaker, and I cuss out all the rocks I've tripped over and the crevices I've fallen into on the way up. But in spite of all that cussing, I'm still on this mountain."

It's really quite depressing from this perspective.