Author Topic: IFBB Rules? Is Lee Priest right?  (Read 20625 times)

IFBBwannaB

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Re: IFBB Rules? Is Lee Priest right?
« Reply #125 on: August 04, 2006, 06:32:44 PM »
I think complaining is different from stating facts and speaking his mind.  Lee has as much if not more insight on the IFBB than anyone one here.  How can you argue with someone knows volumes more than you doabout the IFBB,Manion, Weiners and the BB industry.

I can because his arguments are basless.He simply ask for donations.
You talk about him as if he is a figure to be adored,nothing more then a 2 tier juice head.

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Re: IFBB Rules? Is Lee Priest right?
« Reply #126 on: August 04, 2006, 06:42:17 PM »
I can because his arguments are basless.He simply ask for donations.
You talk about him as if he is a figure to be adored,nothing more then a 2 tier juice head.
monster jealousy.
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onlyme

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Re: IFBB Rules? Is Lee Priest right?
« Reply #127 on: August 04, 2006, 09:10:15 PM »
I can because his arguments are basless.He simply ask for donations.
You talk about him as if he is a figure to be adored,nothing more then a 2 tier juice head.

I do adore Jack.  He is bald as am I.  But unless he sends me some pics with Muscle Mafia on it I may not adorn him anymore

IFBBwannaB

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Re: IFBB Rules? Is Lee Priest right?
« Reply #128 on: August 04, 2006, 11:38:46 PM »
I do adore Jack.  He is bald as am I.  But unless he sends me some pics with Muscle Mafia on it I may not adorn him anymore

I was talking about Lee.

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Re: IFBB Rules? Is Lee Priest right?
« Reply #129 on: August 05, 2006, 02:51:33 AM »

The Luke

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Re: IFBB Rules? Is Lee Priest right?
« Reply #130 on: August 05, 2006, 08:50:06 AM »
Just a quick question...

Why is Vince Basile, a highly respected, intelligent and insightful person who has made many contributions to this (and other) bodybuilding boards, defending his logical and reasoned argument against the likes of IFBBwannaB?

Vince is posting proof that he is college edumacated, IFBBwannaB "claims" to be studying engineering. I'm not sure how you do it in the States... but here in Europe, college students can string a sentence together, without spelling mistakes and malapropisms.

Just a thought...

The Luke

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Re: IFBB Rules? Is Lee Priest right?
« Reply #131 on: August 05, 2006, 08:55:26 AM »
Vince,

While your point about rampant drug use is valid, I think the powers-that-be in the IFBB realize something you are not considering. If they tested stringently for drugs, then amateurs would be bigger and more cut than the pros. And if that were the case, why would casual bodybuilders go to shows or buy magazines of guys who are smaller than themselves? Why would a non-bodybuilder want to buy legit supplements or read about training secrets from guys who are smaller than his own cousin Tony, with the acne? Professional bodybuilding and the entire industry would fold like a lawnchair overnight. It would suddenly be that much more obvious to the average guy who hadn't already figured it out that the drugs were more responsible for the pro's size than their supposed work ethic and nutritional regimen. Look at Hulk Hogan for an example.

Sure, pros have good genetics, but it's their genetic response to juice that sets them apart. If anabolic compounds did not exist, I'd wager that only a third of the top current pros would still be on a competitive stage. It's so easy for them to say it's not all about the juice while they are still on the juice.

At least in established sports like track, football and soccer, the best in the world clearly had a gift before their first cycle. You often see and hear the story of the once-skinny bodybuilder who became a giant, but you don't hear too many stories of the slow kid who went on to become a speed demon. Since bodybuilding is only about muscle, and not about god given fast-twitch fibers or a natural ability to make good split-second decisions, the most naturally gifted and hard working are not the ones getting pro cards. Can you imagine the heat track and field would take if the best runners in the world actually became slower, once they turned pro and started getting tested for drugs? Would anyone watch the Tour de France if the competitors used to be faster and better as non-tested amateurs? That is what would happen if the IFBB tested for drugs.

So while it may sound like I'm disagreeing with you, I'm not. In fact, I'm going one step further and say this; since anabolics cannot be uninvented, and since steroid users in the general population have little or no fear of seeing a jail cell, bodybuilding will not only continue to die, but this demise was an inexorable part of a larger sequence of events that began long ago. The non-prosecution or persecution of casual users by the Fed means that the IFBB's hands are tied. The IFBB can't let the gap between what their athletes and the general population look like falter or reverse itself and still expect to be in business. And even if the Fed started going after casual users, they'd soon have to go after the more obvious users, such as pro athletes and bodybuilders or risk a public outcry of "Payoff!"

As bad as drugs are for bodybuilders, and as bad as they are for bodybuilding, the genie is out of the bottle. Remove them at this point and no one will bother watching bodybuilders at all. They'll just go see their cousin Tony, who has bad acne, but can bench a truck and has arms two inches bigger than the pros.
i agree with this... drugs are here to stay no matter what you do... i'm personally not against their use... what I am against is their abuse and here is where the IFBB CAN take a stand... the abusers are easy to spot lets face it their guts are hanging all over the freakin place... the judging is the key to it.

so far this year the shows have been won by guys that looked great -dexter and phil - but come olympia time the jelly bellies will rule again unfortunately

IFBBwannaB

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Re: IFBB Rules? Is Lee Priest right?
« Reply #132 on: August 05, 2006, 09:13:42 AM »
Just a quick question...

Why is Vince Basile, a highly respected, intelligent and insightful person who has made many contributions to this (and other) bodybuilding boards, defending his logical and reasoned argument against the likes of IFBBwannaB?

Vince is posting proof that he is college edumacated, IFBBwannaB "claims" to be studying engineering. I'm not sure how you do it in the States... but here in Europe, college students can string a sentence together, without spelling mistakes and malapropisms.

Just a thought...

The Luke

You can try and ask me question regarding EEE.I have spelling and grammer mistakes because my native language and English are quiet diffrent in the way you build a sentence.Its exacly the oposite ,combine that with quick typing and I pharprase English with Hebrew grammer which is wrong.

Anymore questions son?

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Re: IFBB Rules? Is Lee Priest right?
« Reply #133 on: August 09, 2006, 02:26:18 AM »
Good posts, Vince.  I'm not sure how you could be disappointed with the Sun not doing your story back in the day...there's no money for the papers in that, plus the only person to gain was the dude who owned the gym you worked out at.  Today, it's the same thing....the ONLY money to be made is in supplements.  I'm sure that the gay factor was MUCH worse years ago than in today's more tolerant society. 

Bodybuilding has a lot be blamed for, but as a movement it's not lucrative but for a handful.  And that handful intend to squeeze every last drop out, for better or worse.

Vince, don't kid yourself...bodybuilding never had a 'glorious' past, nor will the future hold much better in my opinion.  The sport, as you put it, is dead!

The only thing you can do is simply train yourself, and if you choose to compete, do so in a tested show.  Simple!

But you won't have sponsorship from REAL sponsors (Nike, Reebok) unless you get MAJOR viewerships...and that simply won't happen.  In some cases, sports just take the high road...every notice you don't see Nike at UFC?  It's too controversial for the big players, just like bodybuilding. 

The only good things about the old days is that not everybody was cranked to the gills...so to compete meant a little more. 

I just like to train as the older guys did, to their standard.  And reap the rewards!...I'll stick to my dayjob for dollars. 

In a perfect world, bodybuilding would be as you describe....but it's not.  Keep fighting, but for what reason I haven't a clue.

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Re: IFBB Rules? Is Lee Priest right?
« Reply #134 on: August 09, 2006, 08:52:10 AM »
Bodybuilding to the general public has always been an activity that was frowned upon. For some reason it became an abject activity and we really haven't obtained any acceptance at all. Like I said, 'fat' is a really bad word but 'muscle' isn't really a positive unless it is associated with athletes and sport. Bodybuilding can't be a sport in the true sense of the word because the judging is not about ability and so on. Perhaps 2500 years ago it was advantageous to have big muscles in hand to hand combat. When guns arrived all you had to do was pull a trigger. Being strong wasn't so important anymore.

A curious thing about women is that in most western cultures musclemen are a turnoff. That really is surprizing because fat guys, bald guys, short guys, old guys, ugly guys, gay guys, etc., are not in demand, either. Why isn't a large, muscular body attractive to women? If it isn't then why would anyone bother developing a body that does nothing for most women. That is not smart. I always believed that the skinning intellectuals argued that muscles were not important and the mind was. To me that was a rationalization to compensate for what those skinny guys lacked. What about the combination of brain and brawn? Is that guy attractive to women? I suppose the best that can be said is that he will do okay but will have a lot of stares and will be considered not as smart as others because of those muscles.

Decades ago it was believed that big muscles made you musclebound and slow. Ben Johnson proved that was false but many still cling to the notion that big guys are slow and do not have much flexibility. Mickey Hargitay in the fifties was quoted as saying he couldn't function unless he has a massage first thing in the morning. Many gullible people believed that because they wanted to believe that there was no advantage to have big muscles. To this day there is a culture that continues to be against big muscles. The reasons have changed slightly but the bias continues. If anyone big gets rich or famous he is the exception and the rest of the muscle guys are stupid, gay, or drug users. It is as if the public are looking for reasons to keep rejecting muscles.

If we forget about competition for a moment and just concentrate on strength and muscle size then surely in our sometimes threatening societies it is an advantage to be bigger than average and stronger than average. People tend to leave big guys alone and that size is a deterent to anyone messing with them or their families and friends. When it comes to reality people do respect big guys in person. They generally reject the posing and displays under lights and in magazines. However, in certain things it is acceptable. Comic book heroes are often huge. Superman was supposed to be bigger than the versions who have played him in the movies. They should make him smarter, too, and not go for a silly female like Lois! Heck, he could even be a bit naughty and look through clothes with that x-ray vision.

Arnold comes along and somehow succeeds with a package that surely couldn't do what he did. A German speaking Austrian musclehead is govenor of California? That guy makes $20,000,000 or more for playing a machine in Hollywood movies?! I suppose we all underestimated Arnold's motivation, persistence and philosophy. If he can succeed then why can't the other musclemen? Steve Reeves was the biggest movie star way back in 1960-61. Reg Park and a few others had some success as did big Lou. We have yet to see anyone with big muscles get an oscar for acting ability.

Even though a few bodybuilders had personal success it never rubbed off on the rest of the community. In a way we can say the sport has gone backwards in recent years because of the controvery over drugs. I don't agree that if we test for drugs that the sport will not have any big guys. There will be lots of guys getting huge but it might take a bit longer. If and when that happens there is no reason why some of those champions cannot make money in advertising and so on. I don't mean for supplement companies, either.

If we insist that big muscles are the ultimate ideal of the perfect man then add a PhD and we should have a superman. There have been several guys who came close to that combination. Zane, Scott, and a few guys who were doctors had brawn and brain. Somehow we need a philosophy of bodybuilding that will help everyone transcend the status we now have. While those drugs are being used and no testing done I am afraid there is no way we can change what the public thinks of us. If the Weiders and DeMilia cannot agree to do testing then the status quo will continue because neither side can risk losing all the competitors who would defect to whichever organization does not do testing.

You would think that if these drugs are illegal then why hasn't the government stepped in to test bodybuilders? Something just doesn't seem fair dinkum here and the lads carry on doing the same thing year after year. The bottom line is that the vast majority of people who want to build themselves up do not want to use dangerous drugs. You would think money could be poured into exercise science to come up with shortcuts to hypertrophy. Maybe scientists can find ways to get bigger without resorting to anabolics and so on? I wish Arnold would use his influence to initiate something along those lines. Guys get arrested for minor things and he says nothing at all about how silly all that DEA attention is. I guess his being a good politician he is not touching bodybuilders with a 10 foot pole.

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Re: IFBB Rules? Is Lee Priest right?
« Reply #135 on: August 09, 2006, 09:15:07 AM »
zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz

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Re: IFBB Rules? Is Lee Priest right?
« Reply #136 on: August 09, 2006, 09:43:15 AM »
Here's the translation:

Nobody liked BB from the start, women don't like it either. why hasn't a BB won an oscar?...Drugs are the blame for everything...

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Re: IFBB Rules? Is Lee Priest right?
« Reply #137 on: August 09, 2006, 10:22:44 AM »
BB was never really loved by the public, it was often chided as being a vein narcissistic pursuit. During the late 70's early 80's it hit mainstream and the public loved it and flocked to the gym. Unless being muscular becomes the style again it will not be mainstream again. The drugs didn't kill it, muscles just went out of style.

But what we could get back to is the great subculture and brotherhood that it once was. Its fraternal underground quality was part of its appeal. Making  friends and socializing while pursuing ideal physiques was healthy and great fun. We never really needed mainstream acceptance. What we need are good leaders and a federation that isn't riddled with corruption and greed.

The Weider empire needs to fall (boycott and protests) and we need a new one that puts health and the athletes first. The leaders have to be more than muscle heads, we need to see they are intelligent, moral people with a well balanced life and a overall good people. They deserve privacy for their steroid use and in turn use their fame and strength for good, not for the pursuit of sex, drugs and more sex and more drugs.

A grassroots effort would be great to get the ball rolling , but the strongest momentum will come from a great charasmatic leader or group of leaders that have the balls to speak up and clean house.


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Re: IFBB Rules? Is Lee Priest right?
« Reply #138 on: August 09, 2006, 10:32:51 AM »


When guns arrived all you had to do was pull a trigger. Being strong wasn't so important anymore.

I'd say it was the industrial revolution that killed muscle, not guns.


A curious thing about women is that in most western cultures musclemen are a turnoff. If it isn't then why would anyone bother developing a body that does nothing for most women. That is not smart.


You seem to be walking right into your opponents argument here. If it isn't smart to create muscles larger than women find pleasing, why do bodybuilders do it? To impress the guys?

I always believed that the skinny intellectuals argued that muscles were not important and the mind was. To me that was a rationalization to compensate for what those skinny guys lacked.


I'm sure skinny intellectuals would make the counter argument that dumb guys build muscles to compensate for what they lacked. And which individual has made a difference on this planet? Ronnie Coleman, the paragon of muscle, or Albert Einstein, the apex of intellectuals?

Decades ago it was believed that big muscles made you musclebound and slow. Ben Johnson proved that was false but many still cling to the notion that big guys are slow and do not have much flexibility.

Ben trained for power, not for muscles. The muscle was a byproduct. Bodybuilders don't do plyometrics. So comapring a sprinter, who is very muscular and athletic, with a bodybuilder, who is very muscular only, is disingenuous. You can argu that some bodybuilders are also athletic, but that is irrelevant. Also, most sports require more than one ten seond burst of power, and those athletes can't perform aerobically with pounds and pounds of extraneous muscle. 

If we forget about competition for a moment and just concentrate on strength and muscle size then surely in our sometimes threatening societies it is an advantage to be bigger than average and stronger than average.

The guys in prison are bigger than the guys on the outside. Did they figure they should solve problems with their fists, just because they knew they could?

People tend to leave big guys alone and that size is a deterent to anyone messing with them or their families and friends.

My feeling is the opposite. Most people tend to leave big guys alone. But jails full of guys who were big before they even got incarcerated. Big tough guys seem to get in fights more, not less.  My feeling is that big guys get in fights more because they are either looking to assert themselves on someone, or someone is trying to assert themselves by taking them on. I'm not saying your best option is to be skinny and invisible, but being bigger to avoid fights does not work, in general.

You would think money could be poured into exercise science to come up with shortcuts to hypertrophy.

Myostatin inhibitors are on their way. The real stuff....not that crap we already see on sale today. Human testing is already underway. In a few years, weightrooms may become obsolete, though like all hypertrophy compounds, I'm sure their abuse will have real side effects, like enlarged hearts. 

I'm not a bodybuilding hater, just some guy who found he got more girls and more confidence by putting on a reasonable amount of muscle. Enough to look like the hated swimmers I read about on Getbig.

It's the elephant oin the room Vince. If women are repulsed by the size of pro bodybuilders, and only a handful make a few time living doing it, why do men want to get that big? (Why women want to get that big is a lot simpler, I think).



mrsirjojo

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Re: IFBB Rules? Is Lee Priest right?
« Reply #139 on: August 09, 2006, 10:37:02 AM »
Here's the translation:

Nobody liked BB from the start, women don't like it either. why hasn't a BB won an oscar?...Drugs are the blame for everything...

More like "Male bodybuilders are to most women what women with massive unnaturally large fake boobs are to men...loved by a minority and shunned by the majority."

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Re: IFBB Rules? Is Lee Priest right?
« Reply #140 on: August 09, 2006, 11:56:43 AM »
NPC shows in the New England area are dying.  The last NPC Mr. RI had about 30 people in the audience. Their were more competitors.  They even cancelled the night show and just ran the pre judging and the poses and posedown with a 30 minute break.  Now no more NPC RI's.  The year before was almost sold out?  I don't get it.  Now, I believe it's all been put into Jays's Mass show.  Maine, New Hampshire and Vermont aren't doing much better, when only 1 or 2 years earlier they were packed.  Why the sudden loss of intrest in the North East?  Their's not much else to do.  Even with Palumbo guest posing and Mike Katz MCing it was still a loss.  How is the IFBB going to get bigger when the minor league shows are dying?
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onlyme

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Re: IFBB Rules? Is Lee Priest right?
« Reply #141 on: August 09, 2006, 12:46:07 PM »
I heard even the USA's in Vegas wasn't even close to a sellout.  They had 300+ competitors which is awesome, but that just meant most of the people in the audience got comped tickets. 

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Re: IFBB Rules? Is Lee Priest right?
« Reply #142 on: August 09, 2006, 12:48:19 PM »
My local show had Darrem Charles in 04, then Vic martinez guest pose last year.  This year it's Dave palumbo. 

Now there is nothing wrong with Palumbo, sounds like a helluva likeable guy. 

Just wish we had a top pro up there. I know more people were going to the show for Vic M than for anything local.

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Re: IFBB Rules? Is Lee Priest right?
« Reply #143 on: August 09, 2006, 12:53:32 PM »
I heard even the USA's in Vegas wasn't even close to a sellout.  They had 300+ competitors which is awesome, but that just meant most of the people in the audience got comped tickets. 
I heard the sky is falling.

Keith had you been there you could have SEEN the place was packed. How does 300+ competitors equate to the audience getting comped tickets?

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RJB

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Re: IFBB Rules? Is Lee Priest right?
« Reply #144 on: August 09, 2006, 12:54:27 PM »
More like "Male bodybuilders are to most women what women with massive unnaturally large fake boobs are to men...loved by a minority and shunned by the majority."

I agree with this statement.
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onlyme

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Re: IFBB Rules? Is Lee Priest right?
« Reply #145 on: August 09, 2006, 01:16:53 PM »
I heard the sky is falling.

Keith had you been there you could have SEEN the place was packed. How does 300+ competitors equate to the audience getting comped tickets?



Well I just made a few calls and I guess we are both right.  It was packed for awhile.  But the 3 people I just got off the phone with all said that after the women were done at least 1/3 or more of the audience had left.  So I guess you were right and I was right

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Re: IFBB Rules? Is Lee Priest right?
« Reply #146 on: August 09, 2006, 01:23:39 PM »
Well I just made a few calls and I guess we are both right.  It was packed for awhile.  But the 3 people I just got off the phone with all said that after the women were done at least 1/3 or more of the audience had left.  So I guess you were right and I was right

The only correct part of your post was "They had 300+ competitors which is awesome"
The rest was your usual "I heard" crap.
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Re: IFBB Rules? Is Lee Priest right?
« Reply #147 on: August 09, 2006, 01:49:15 PM »
Well I just made a few calls and I guess we are both right.  It was packed for awhile.  But the 3 people I just got off the phone with all said that after the women were done at least 1/3 or more of the audience had left.  So I guess you were right and I was right
You are a hoot. Packed for awhile is still packed. What difference does it make if they were there for the men or the women?

Still waiting on how you gathered the tickets were comped. I guess all those family members of the figure competitors got in for free huh?

Do us all a favor and stop talking on what you "heard" as it continues to be a load of shit.

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onlyme

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Re: IFBB Rules? Is Lee Priest right?
« Reply #148 on: August 09, 2006, 03:30:43 PM »
You are a hoot. Packed for awhile is still packed. What difference does it make if they were there for the men or the women?

Still waiting on how you gathered the tickets were comped. I guess all those family members of the figure competitors got in for free huh?

Do us all a favor and stop talking on what you "heard" as it continues to be a load of shit.

 :-*

Wow Issac honey why so mad.  Aren't you and Kevin staying with each other.  I love when two nobodies talk to me.  It makes my day.  Any good naked pics of guys you got at the contest afterwards. And what does it matter if they are there for the women or men.  Nothing I guess if you are a women competitor.  If I was a male competitor and seeinghow many people were watching the women then left when it was the men's time, I would be a little upset that they didn't hang around.  Of course the both of you had a full room at the hotel I'm sure.  Both of you quit the IFBB/NPC ball-licking, it makes you look bad  worse.  You get so mad at what I say, instead of reading what I write just look at each other and figure out how you will improve yourselves.  And somewhere I heard both of you were okay photographers.  You are right, I need to quit listening to others cause it's shit.  By honeys hopefully will see you at the Olympia.  Maybe we can get a group hug picture together.  No handsies though

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Re: IFBB Rules? Is Lee Priest right?
« Reply #149 on: August 09, 2006, 03:43:10 PM »
Wow Issac honey why so mad.  Aren't you and Kevin staying with each other.  I love when two nobodies talk to me.  It makes my day.  Any good naked pics of guys you got at the contest afterwards. And what does it matter if they are there for the women or men.  Nothing I guess if you are a women competitor.  If I was a male competitor and seeinghow many people were watching the women then left when it was the men's time, I would be a little upset that they didn't hang around.  Of course the both of you had a full room at the hotel I'm sure.  Both of you quit the IFBB/NPC ball-licking, it makes you look bad  worse.  You get so mad at what I say, instead of reading what I write just look at each other and figure out how you will improve yourselves.  And somewhere I heard both of you were okay photographers.  You are right, I need to quit listening to others cause it's shit.  By honeys hopefully will see you at the Olympia.  Maybe we can get a group hug picture together.  No handsies though
HAHA - who's mad? Simply asking you to answer the question. When all else fails deflect the attention away from what you, yourself brought up. Comped tickets - still waiting for you to state how most of the tickets were comped.

Awe a group hug in Vegas. I'm all giddy just thinking about it.
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