what's Milos' "special drink"

[Iago]

Firstly please answer me this! How on gods green earth can you say Milos has "MANGLED" me or Dennis for that matter?? How have we got worse since being with him?? Before i came to Milos i had done 4 pro shows. The first one. Dieted from 275 to 225! over dieted. The second one. 275 to 228! over dieted. The 3rd one. 280 to 230 over dieted. the 4th one 290 to 230. over dieted! The 5th one (under Milos) dieted from 280 to 250!  now i see a pattern here. I have improved out site since being with Milos. After NY last year i made the decision to do another 3 shows and 3 guest appearances and burnt myself out! Not Milos doing at all, but myself pushing the envelop to far. My worst showing was in Texas and i was still 244lbs.  Now remember, i live in Australia. Before i left the US last year in November Milos and myself say down and constructed a plan for the NY pro show this year. I hit an offseason of 285lbs and was still only 9% BF due to Milos's advice. I dieted for NY in Australia and came to Milos 3 weeks out of NY show and was 264lbs and peeled! READY! All this was Milos and his advice over the phone and over the net. I would sent pictures and he would tell me what to do. I am still trying to figure out how Milos has made me go backwards?? Now as i have said 50 times before but 1 more time i will say, i came down with a severe urinary tract infection 1 week out of the NY show which in turn cause me to go through endless nites sleep and incredible pain on stage.  I suppose this was Milos fault as well? I might go and jump off the Empire state building and is that Milos's fault as well. The promblem here is, alot of guys blame there GURO for there mishaps, but never look at how much they are the ones who have really stuffed up! in this case it was just very bad luck and very bad timing!

You say who would pay $200-$300 for simple advice from Milos?? where is your evidence that Milos's advice is simple?? Have you seen him before and sat down with him? do you know anyone who has? if so, who? If you are going by the advice Milos gives on this forum as his sole knowledge, than you are very mistaken! This is only absolute basics on this forum you read. Milos is a professional and this is his job. So it would be very unfair to for him to go into great detail about nutrition and training and people pay him good money to get this advice! and i have NEVER seen one who takes this advice go backwards!
My advice to you is put your money where your mouth is and give him a try! The investment will be HUGE!

Luke,

You seem like a legitimately nice guy and I am not trying to attack you here.  You have, on contest day, LOOKED progressively worse since working with Milos.  I don't care if you weighed more or not because that doesn't actually matter as the judges aren't busting out a scale and determining who places where based on weight.  Dennis James went from placing top 5 in the Olympia a couple years ago to limping into the top 5 at the New York Pro this year, do you consider this to be progress?  I beleive your placings have been getting progressively worse but I don't have the numbers on hand. Where did you place in your first US show versus your last?  Have your placings gotten better or not?  Once again I am not trying to attack you here.  Milos yes, you no.

In response to your last paragraph you have completely missed my point.  I am saying Milos makes things excessively complicated in an effort to validate the fees he charges not that his advice is simple.  Reread what I wrote and you will see that is what I was indicating.

[250Ben250]

Clearly you know nothing of Clancy Ross or any of the old guys.  You need to do some more research in regards to when Steroids were first implemented.

Clancy was competing in the 40s and 50s. No drugs were used PERIOD. End of story.  There is not one single documented case of any of these guys using anything by anyone.

Furhtermore Grimek was winning shows when testosterone wasn`t even developed.

Adonis you need to learn your history first -- D-bol was released by Ciga Pharmaceuticals in 1958 after its initial development a few years earlier, its not impossible at all that some of these guys used back then considering it was the drugs creator that brought it to the York gym crowd before it was released as a pharm drug -->


"The godfather of steroids was a rough-and-tumble Maryland physician named John Bosley Ziegler. Ziegler practiced medicine in Olney, Md. and conducted chemistry research at a company called Ciba Pharmaceuticals. A big, fleshy former Marine who answered to the nickname "Montana Jack," Ziegler loved to pump iron. During his long sessions at the gym, he befriended several bodybuilders associated with the York (Pa.) Barbell Club.

In the 1950s, York was at the center of American fitness training, and Bob Hoffman was the movement's spiritual leader. Hoffman, who competed with Joe Weider and Charles Atlas for the title of America's main muscleman, also ran the York Barbell Co. "I am proud that I am a builder of men," he wrote in the 1939 book Weight Lifting. The men he built included such famed old-time strongmen as John Grimek, John Davis, and Paul Anderson.

Hoffman figured that Ziegler's scientific credentials would prove useful in supplementing his bodybuilding theories, and Ziegler soon became a vital part of the York entourage. In 1954, Ziegler went with his York buddies to the World Weightlifting Championships in Vienna, Austria, as the team's doctor.

Upon returning to the United States, Ziegler started administering straight testosterone shots to selected York weightlifters. But these experiments proved unsatisfactory—strength gains were negligible, and the bodybuilders complained that the shots made them feel strange. Ziegler kept tinkering in an attempt to synthesize a substance with testosterone's strength-building attributes but none of the pesky side effects. In 1958, Ciba Pharmaceuticals unleashed his creation: methandrostenolone, which the company marketed as Dianabol."

...sure sounds a little more likely to me when you look at the history, feel free to post something showing the contrary...

[Bast000]

you seriously do not believe supplements work?  WOW youare more delusional then i thought i can name at least a dozen that are great

Name em.    Pretty much all are bullshit in my opinion.

[bigmc]

Supplements are shit eat real food and save your money

[Bast000]

Milos' advice is bullshit too, save your money.   Just lift, eat well, and take steroids if you want to be as big as Milos, just like he did.  You may not be able to look as good due to genetics, not because you don't possess his 'incredible knowledge'.

[The True Adonis]

Adonis you need to learn your history first -- D-bol was released by Ciga Pharmaceuticals in 1958 after its initial development a few years earlier, its not impossible at all that some of these guys used back then considering it was the drugs creator that brought it to the York gym crowd before it was released as a pharm drug -->


"The godfather of steroids was a rough-and-tumble Maryland physician named John Bosley Ziegler. Ziegler practiced medicine in Olney, Md. and conducted chemistry research at a company called Ciba Pharmaceuticals. A big, fleshy former Marine who answered to the nickname "Montana Jack," Ziegler loved to pump iron. During his long sessions at the gym, he befriended several bodybuilders associated with the York (Pa.) Barbell Club.

In the 1950s, York was at the center of American fitness training, and Bob Hoffman was the movement's spiritual leader. Hoffman, who competed with Joe Weider and Charles Atlas for the title of America's main muscleman, also ran the York Barbell Co. "I am proud that I am a builder of men," he wrote in the 1939 book Weight Lifting. The men he built included such famed old-time strongmen as John Grimek, John Davis, and Paul Anderson.

Hoffman figured that Ziegler's scientific credentials would prove useful in supplementing his bodybuilding theories, and Ziegler soon became a vital part of the York entourage. In 1954, Ziegler went with his York buddies to the World Weightlifting Championships in Vienna, Austria, as the team's doctor.

Upon returning to the United States, Ziegler started administering straight testosterone shots to selected York weightlifters. But these experiments proved unsatisfactory—strength gains were negligible, and the bodybuilders complained that the shots made them feel strange. Ziegler kept tinkering in an attempt to synthesize a substance with testosterone's strength-building attributes but none of the pesky side effects. In 1958, Ciba Pharmaceuticals unleashed his creation: methandrostenolone, which the company marketed as Dianabol."

...sure sounds a little more likely to me when you look at the history, feel free to post something showing the contrary...

Waste of time.....In regards to Steve Reeves, he was retired way before this shit was invented.  So even him ,it does not apply....Face it.  They were natural....End of story.

[CAPTAIN MARVEL]

Name em.    Pretty much all are bullshit in my opinion.

Creatine, BCAA's, Leucine, Arachidonic Acid, Caffeine, Ephedra, Yohimbe, Green Tea, Fish Oil, Pro-hormones/Pro-steroids, EAA's, 6-OXO......there are others
Do any of them equate steroids? Nope, but they do work

[250Ben250]

Waste of time.....In regards to Steve Reeves, he was retired way before this shit was invented.  So even him ,it does not apply....Face it.  They were natural....End of story.

meltdown.


"Bob Hoffman and his bodybuilders were already accustomed to popping supplements. Hoffman made millions peddling a soy-based protein powder called Hi-Proteen, and Barbell Club members were heavy users of the stuff. It didn't take much persuading for them to give John Ziegler's pills a try."b]

Who cares about Reeves, I'm talking about the rest, if the drug was "officially" released in 1958, that means Ziegler was making his own home brewed pills and passing it out to your idols at the York barbell club years earlier. There no such thing as a "natural", only varying degrees of chemical assistance -- you're just on the low end with your GNC factory-made protein powders.

[wood]

that was the best part about working there part-time, making commission off of suckas who believed the ads on every other page...

[250Ben250]

Waste of time.....In regards to Steve Reeves, he was retired way before this shit was invented.  So even him ,it does not apply....Face it.  They were natural....End of story.

PS...
RE: Steve Reeves --

"To help boost the swelling body, Marnul introduced Arnold to steroids, which were then legal. Back in the early 1960s, the trainer claims, "There was no weightlifter in the world who did not take them. You could get prescriptions for them from the doctor. Arnold never took them, though, without my super-vision."

Marnul says he learned about steroids from famed bodybuilder Steve Reeves. That name brings us to another energizing influence on Arnold: the imagery, which inspired him."

I'm still waiting for anything showing the contrary....

[The True Adonis]

PS...
RE: Steve Reeves --

"To help boost the swelling body, Marnul introduced Arnold to steroids, which were then legal. Back in the early 1960s, the trainer claims, "There was no weightlifter in the world who did not take them. You could get prescriptions for them from the doctor. Arnold never took them, though, without my super-vision."

Marnul says he learned about steroids from famed bodybuilder Steve Reeves. That name brings us to another energizing influence on Arnold: the imagery, which inspired him."

I'm still waiting for anything showing the contrary....

hahaha Kurt Marnul never made that statement...That is fiction from Wendy (Leigh) slanted biography of Arnold which holds tons of lies.

Pure fiction.

[Milos_Sarcev]

I don't want to "start" anything - but to put it nicely I have approached few of my bodybuilding heroes from the past...(out of respect I would NOT say their names)...
In our conversation I told them that I greatly respect their achievements and I expressed my opinion that IF they had what we have today...and IF they have used what bodybuilders are using today - certainly they would look EVEN better...

With the big smile couple of those "old time champions" told me: "and why do you think we didn't?"

I was in shock discovering WHAT was already used - "back in a day"....



Now, as far as supplements are concerned - only completely ignorant people (and we have just a few here on getbig...OK - I called them "color blind" before...) could make the statement that nutritional supplements are worthless.

While they are only SUPPLEMENT to someone's regular diet (solid food) they could indeed make considerable (I would even say - absolutely HUGE difference) if used soundly...Again - right nutrients in the right time MAKE ALL THE DIFFERENCE.

[The True Adonis]

The interveiw Steve and his is the question and his response :
question: " The other day I was at the local library I was looking at a book entitled ," Arnold An Unauthorized Biography " by an author named Wendy Leigh . on page 27it stated that Kurt Marnul told Arnold ( Schwarzenegger ) about steriods . Marnul said that he had learned about steriods and their dosages from Steve Reeves , whom he claims to have met in France during a 1952 Vacation . is this true?

Steve Reeves : That statement has also been brought to my attention by a friend who surfs the Internet. No its not true. I never heard of steriods until the mid 1960s and I was never in France during the 1950s! My first trip to France was in 1948 when I entered  and won the " Mr World " contest in Cannes.  Mt second trip to France was not until 1960 when I attended the premiere of my movie , The Last Days Of Pompeii. "

There it is right from Steves mouth ! and he is vehemently opossed to drugs in bodybuilding , and this is why I feel Steve Reeves is the greatest bodybuilder EVER simply because he did everything naturally and his physique still stands the test of time !

[Milos_Sarcev]

"I never heard of steriods until the mid 1960s" means "he is vehemently opossed to drugs in bodybuilding"?

And also proof is just because:
"There it is right from Steves mouth"? 


But - Steve is ONE OF THE GREATEST BODYBUILDERS THAT EVER LIVED - without the question...
Certainly one of my idols.

And I am NOT saying that he did anything...I am just pointing out on "depth" of your analysis and "proofs"...

[migizi]

Milos how did your protege do from the webisodes? Marcel?

[Milos_Sarcev]

Great - he placed 11th at the USA...
He placed for the first time in the National level show...he will be moving up very soon...

We are debating if he should enter North American championships next...

[The True Adonis]

"I never heard of steriods until the mid 1960s" means "he is vehemently opossed to drugs in bodybuilding"?

And also proof is just because:
"There it is right from Steves mouth"? 

Yes, it is RIGHT from his mouth and in his published book.
Proof also comes from his training partner and look at the timeline when he competed and trained versus the introduction of steroids on the bodybuilding scene.

You obviously are just as clueless about the past champions.  Steve Reeves HATED the way current bodybuild became and despised all the drug use with a passion.  You are on the other end of the spectrum, promoting the proliferation of drug use.  You and Chad Nichols and Palumbo and the rest of the steroid advocates are ruining Bodybuilding.

[YoungBlood]

Clearly you know nothing of Clancy Ross or any of the old guys.  You need to do some more research in regards to when Steroids were first implemented.

Now it's the word "implemented?" Just like you apparently flip-flopped on the Tom Prince bet, you've now changed from when something was invented to when something was implemented.
And, clearly, because I state that when a drug is invented, I have no idea about older bbers? Good generalization! Just like your other generalization that "no drugs were used PERIOD."
You weren't there, you do not know if they used or not. You can't say that. But the fact that the drug was discovered and invented means it was available to them and they COULD have used it.
Here's Grimek's history:

1939

York Perfect Man, Overall Winner
York Perfect Man, Medium, 1st

1940

Mr America - AAU, Most Muscular, 1st
Mr America - AAU, Winner

1941

Mr America - AAU, Winner

1946

Most Muscular Man in America, Winner

1948

Mr Universe - NABBA, Medium, 1st
Mr Universe - NABBA, Winner

1949

Mr USA, Winner

Magazines
   Vol 6, Num 2   IronMan
   Vol 6, Num 6   IronMan
1935 February   Num 539   La Culture Physique
1935 May   Vol 3, Num 6   Strength and Health
1936 August   Vol 1, Num 1   IronMan
1937 December   Vol 6, Num 1   Strength and Health
1938 June       Strength and Health
1939 June       Strength and Health
1940 January       Strength and Health
1940 April       Strength and Health
1940 August       Strength and Health
1940 October       Strength and Health
1941 February   Vol 4, Num 1   IronMan
1941 August       Strength and Health
1941 October   Vol 4, Num 4   IronMan
1941 December       Strength and Health
1942 November       Strength and Health
1943 April       Strength and Health
1943 December       Strength and Health
1945 January       Strength and Health
1945 June   Vol 5, Num 2   Your Physique
1945 September       Strength and Health
1946 April       Strength and Health
1947 February       Strength and Health
1947 July   Vol 76, Num 14   Health and Strength
1948 January       Strength and Health
1948 January   Vol 8, Num 4   Your Physique
1948 September   Vol 77, Num 20   Health and Strength
1948 September   Vol 8, Num 4   IronMan
1948 October       Strength and Health
1949 May   Vol 9, Num 3   IronMan
1949 May       Strength and Health
1949 June   Vol 4, Num 6   Chicago Bodybuilder
1949 December   Vol 78, Num 24   Health and Strength
1950 February       Strength and Health
1950 March   Vol 79, Num 6   Health and Strength
1950 November   Vol 79, Num 24   Health and Strength
1951 February       Strength and Health
1952 April   Vol 81, Num 7   Health and Strength
1952 April   Vol 6, Num 4   The Bodybuilder
1953 February   Vol 12, Num 4   IronMan
1954 January   Vol 13, Num 4   IronMan
1955 June       Strength and Health
1956 February       Strength and Health
1956 July   Vol 85, Num 15   Health and Strength
1958 February       Strength and Health
1958 December       Strength and Health
1962 January   Vol 91, Num 2   Health and Strength
1964 January   Vol 1, Num 1   Muscular Development
1965 June       Strength and Health
1967 February   Vol 4, Num 2   Muscular Development
1969 February   Vol 6, Num 2   Muscular Development
1993 November   Vol 5, Num 3   Hardgainer
1995 May   Vol 54, Num 5   IronMan
1996 January   Vol 122, Num 1   Health and Strength
1999 March   Vol 10, Num 5   Hardgainer
2002 January   Vol 128, Num 1   Health and Strength

Lo and behold it starts in the same year that Ross' did (According to your background check anyway), and years after testosterone was discovered.
You just cannot make the assumption that your correct and say they never used.
There's a story from MMI years back, where Vince Gironda, Bill Pearl, and numerous others were sitting around a table discussing wether to up their dosage from (I think it was) 5mg to 10mg. Nobody knew the effects it could have, but that they were getting good results so they all wanted to try to use more.
As far as Ross' workout routine, did you ever read the article regarding him in MMI about how he can't move anymore due to his joints being so fucked? He attributes this to his workout routine, saying how he used to do the same workout 3x/week and always heavy and hard. Now he regrets that, saying he'd changed it up. Just a FYI...nothing more.

[The True Adonis]

Theres no fucking story like that.

Even if there was, its just that, A STORY....PURE FICTION.

Drug use was frowned upon by Reeves,Grimek and Ross.

Gironda didn`t care for it either...They hated what they saw happeneing.

[YoungBlood]

We'll I've wasted 10min that I'll never get back.
Your as stubborn as a mule, you toad-licking douchebag elf.... go make some more cookies.

[Bast000]

Creatine, BCAA's, Leucine, Arachidonic Acid, Caffeine, Ephedra, Yohimbe, Green Tea, Fish Oil, Pro-hormones/Pro-steroids, EAA's, 6-OXO......there are others
Do any of them equate steroids? Nope, but they do work

I use whey protein (which includes Luecino and other amino acids you don't have to buy separately), vitamins, ephedra and caffeine.  Everything else is junk except for creatine (which will do little).


If Milos' special supplements work so well he should make a Pro comeback and win the Mr. O.   

[hangclean]

Creatine, BCAA's, Leucine, Arachidonic Acid, Caffeine, Ephedra, Yohimbe, Green Tea, Fish Oil, Pro-hormones/Pro-steroids, EAA's, 6-OXO......there are others
Do any of them equate steroids? Nope, but they do work

Sorry, but pro steroids are steroids.

[doison]

Theres no fucking story like that.

Even if there was, its just that, A STORY....PURE FICTION.

Drug use was frowned upon by Reeves,Grimek and Ross.

Gironda didn`t care for it either...They hated what they saw happeneing.

wow.....major meltdown.  

Impressive.

[250Ben250]

Theres no fucking story like that.

Even if there was, its just that, A STORY....PURE FICTION.

Drug use was frowned upon by Reeves,Grimek and Ross.

Gironda didn`t care for it either...They hated what they saw happeneing.

Hmmm... Who to believe, Adonis and his 2nd hand stories from google searches, or Milos who talked to these old BB vets face to face... tough one 

Yes I'm sure they all hated it when it started turning into a circus in the mid 80's, but 30 years earlier they were all popping little pink pills like they were tic tacs...

[AVBG]

Hmmm... Who to believe, Adonis and his 2nd hand stories from google searches, or Milos who talked to these old BB vets face to face... tough one 

Yes I'm sure they all hated it when it started turning into a circus in the mid 80's, but 30 years earlier they were all popping little pink pills like they were tic tacs...

I am with you.. The motivation to be the best over time doesn't change. If any of these "iron agers" back in their day wished to have an advantage over the competition they would have been on the hormones, for sure.. TA is kidding himself if he thinks otherwise..