lesson to remember (especially for beginners)

[pkaz]

to all the new bodybuilders in the block,,,i suggest you follow ths thread from now so you can see the real face of bodybuilding. you will see how many additional posts will be added to this thread (half of them from pro bodybuilders and top amatuers under diff names)  because this thread now have meat attached to it. ofcourse at the end it will get erased so the faster you save it the better it will be for you. they might actually stop posting to try to prove me wrong but the inner self is stronger than the outer self,,in any case i dont care as long as you understand how severe the situation is when it comes to bodybuilding and hormones.

now about the remark of i can get anything from people other than you,,,who do you think leo get his "materials" from? i told you i NEVER lie. a lot of money was invested in us being able to maniplulate the market and reason i am online is because it makes me a lot more money than my pro card will ever do for me. the combo of the 2 is a killer and  the reason you are big has  A LOT to do with guess who,,you got that right...ME.

gh15,

Haven't you every heard the statement:

Smart people don't need advise and stupid people wont take it...

Seems like you are wasting you time and knowledge with some of the these naive personalities here...

[NarcissisticDeity]

how do you say rest my case in nd language? this is pretty much it other than that nothing is 100%. "it is just the ability of one to maintain both size of muscle and superb condition that equals hormonal use." gh15 aug12 2006.

That has NOTHING to do with your claims .

How do you personally know Steve Reeves experimented with steroid?

How do you know the consistancy of his alleged use?

How do you know how much product he had avialable?

How do you know he did not finish his career natural?

How do you know the duration his alleged use?





Answer these questions. and again some vauge refferences don't mean anything .

[NarcissisticDeity]

gh15,

Haven't you every heard the statement:

Smart people don't need advise and stupid people wont take it...

Seems like you are wasting you time and knowledge with some of the these naive personalities here...

Knowlege? if he had knowlege he'd answer the questions and he's done everything but. he may be knowleable about drugs in todays game , but for him to lay claim to personal information is dubious.

[NarcissisticDeity]

History of Steroid Use

Humans are a naturally competitive species. As long as we have had sports to compete in, athletes have tried all kinds of things to be the best. Athletes have used various substances and potions to improve athletic performance since the beginning of civilization. The ancient Greeks ate sesame seeds, the Australian aborigines chewed the pituri plant, Norse warriors ate hallucinogenic mushrooms, and ancient cultures around the world had similar traditions.

In the 1860s, a group of swimmers in Amsterdam were charged with taking drugs to speed up their races. For the next 80 years or so, athletes who wanted to cheat focused mostly on stimulants to speed themselves up.

In 1935, the male hormone testosterone was first synthesized. During World War II, German soldiers were reportedly given testosterone to increase their performance and aggressiveness on the battlefield.

In the 1940s testosterone began to be widely used in competitive sports, but the dangers of loading up on testosterone were not yet clear. In the 1952 Olympics, the Russian weightlifting and wrestling teams dominated those sports, at least in part due to synthetic testosterone.

Scientists all over the world worked to formulate better performance-enhancing drugs during the 1950s and beyond. Still, in the early days, there was not much awareness of the dangers such substances could pose to users.


In the 1920s and 1930s, experimentation culminated in the discovery of testosterone. In 1918, Leo L. Stanley, resident physician of San Quentin State Prison in California, transplanted testicles removed from recently executed prisoners into inmates, some of whom claimed that they recovered sexual potency. In 1920, a lack of human material led to the substitution of boar, deer, goat, and ram testes. In the 1920s, Russian–French surgeon Serge Voronoff made a fortune transplanting monkey glands into aging men. Throughout this period, researchers tested the androgenic effects of substances isolated from large quantities of animal testicles and from human urine. (Adolf Butenandt isolated milligram amounts of androsterone from 15,000 L of policemen’s urine.) Finally, Karoly G. David, Ernst Laqueur, and colleagues isolated crystalline testosterone from testicles and published the results in 1935. Within a few months, groups led by Butenandt and G. Hanisch (funded by Schering Corp. in Berlin), and Leopold Ruzicka and A. Wettstein of Ciba, developed synthetic methods of preparing testosterone. Butenandt and Ruzicka shared the 1939 Nobel Prize in Chemistry for this achievement.

The sources you state that refere to drug use in the United States are vauge at best , here is a detailed first hand account of among the very first ever weightlifters/bodybuilders to use anabloic steroids in the United States .

 
http://www.post-gazette.com/pg/05275/581242.stm

[gh15]

That has NOTHING to do with your claims .

How do you personally know Steve Reeves experimented with steroid?

How do you know the consistancy of his alleged use?

How do you know how much product he had avialable?

How do you know he did not finish his career natural?

How do you know the duration his alleged use?





Answer these questions. and again some vauge refferences don't mean anything .

the article is more proof than your "proofs" of steve reeves never experiementing with hormones. nd,, you dont understand that you sound dumb? in all my posts i never stated how much he took or its duration etc,,,i stated he EXPERIEMNTED with hormones in their rough stages of development. he, from young age adored bodybuilding and trained to be a bodybuilder,,the human nature itself + the will to become the best + the will to make a living world wide + the human brain + the article that other dude just posted,,,all of the above = ANY SINGLE NORMAL HUMAN BEING TO GET OFF THE OLYMPUS HE CLIMED ON AND UNDERSTAND THAT SANTA CLAUS IS NOT REAL and steeve reeves is like the rest of us.

wize up nd,, you are playing a game of exact answers to exact questions. this game can not be answered with 100% accuracy and reference quotes because we did not live in the 40s. i said before it was MY OPINION a VERY EDUCATED OPINION.

[corinth]

the article is more proof than your "proofs" of steve reeves never experiementing with hormones. nd,, you dont understand that you sound dumb? in all my posts i never stated how much he took or its duration etc,,,i stated he EXPERIEMNTED with hormones in their rough stages of development. he, from young age adored bodybuilding and trained to be a bodybuilder,,the human nature itself + the will to become the best + the will to make a living world wide + the human brain + the article that other dude just posted,,,all of the above = ANY SINGLE NORMAL HUMAN BEING TO GET OFF THE OLYMPUS HE CLIMED ON AND UNDERSTAND THAT SANTA CLAUS IS NOT REAL and steeve reeves is like the rest of us.

wize up nd,, you are playing a game of exact answers to exact questions. this game can not be answered with 100% accuracy and reference quotes because we did not live in the 40s. i said before it was MY OPINION a VERY EDUCATED OPINION.

So it's your opinion that a man you never met, who it still hasn't been completely established if he even actually had access to the hormones you said he took, experimented with steroids because he was human, just like the rest of us. That's very very thin proof GH. By all accounts Reeves was a man of high integrity and his physique was entirely attainable through hard work.

[gh15]

this is your opinion and you got the right to think whatever you want i can assure you that anyone that been through one little 3 week cycle of  LEGIT andriol and dianabol,,, both or each,,, does not share your opinion.

[corinth]

this is your opinion and you got the right to think whatever you want i can assure you that anyone that been through one little 3 week cycle of  LEGIT andriol and dianabol,,, both or each,,, does not share your opinion.

so you're saying Reeves took anadrol and dianabol, which everyone knows wasn't available until the late 50s

[pkaz]

The sources you state that refere to drug use in the United States are vauge at best , here is a detailed first hand account of among the very first ever weightlifters/bodybuilders to use anabloic steroids in the United States .

 
http://www.post-gazette.com/pg/05275/581242.stm

That is because the subject and use of these and most drugs was very vague in the 30s, 40s, and 50s.. And your "detailed first hand account of among the very first ever weightlifters/bodybuilders to use anabolic steroids in the United States" is only recognizable because sports enhancement was becoming more known in the public environment. Just like homosexuality was in the closet for many years, and recreantion drugs were not spoken off (who would confess to going to Chinese opium dens to use opium), no one wanted to confess to experimenting with sport enhancement type drugs when BB was suppose to have the appearance of health, beauty and fitness...

You need to relax a little. Collect information from others and use it or don't use it.. But relax...

[gh15]

so you're saying Reeves took anadrol and dianabol, which everyone knows wasn't available until the late 50s

NO. you put words in my mouth. i DID not say reeves took andriol and diabanol in the 40s in their final forms! ! ! ! ! !  he did took them during the 50s and 60s ofcourse but that was beyond bodybuilding aiming at his career more than his bodybuilding goals.

what i DID say was that reeves took testosterone in its rough stages in a tablet form,,he most likley took insulin too witch is a  LOT MORE anabolic if your body fat is low enough and he always maintain low body fat from his skinny teen ager years till the beggining of his experiemnting thus the insulin worked on him even better for anabolic activity and for maintaining muscle mass while cutting.

so,,NO he did not take ANDRIOL and DIANABOL during the 40s as the product you are femiliar with now days. he took testosterone tablets that are a lot more natural to the body than any other bi-test  product and sad for the athletes in the 40s,,,also didnt do much for constant blood levels of test.

it was a lot more for strength and endurance those days,,it was for,, as a bodybuilder,, being able to try to maintain the muscle mass through extra balistic strength achieved by those tabelts that at the end resulted by increased muscle mass or maintaining it,, as long as your nutirion was solid as in enough calories.

pay attention i do not mention any other stimulants for i am only talking about early stages of testosterone products and ofcourse good ole insulin by lilly. every thing was NOT supervized what so ever those days and was very very very EASY to get in europe and from the late 50s in usa normal every day gyms also.

wize up people

now give me my ISSA personal trainer license ,,,oh wait i already have my pro card

[NarcissisticDeity]

the article is more proof than your "proofs" of steve reeves never experiementing with hormones. nd,, you dont understand that you sound dumb? in all my posts i never stated how much he took or its duration etc,,,i stated he EXPERIEMNTED with hormones in their rough stages of development. he, from young age adored bodybuilding and trained to be a bodybuilder,,the human nature itself + the will to become the best + the will to make a living world wide + the human brain + the article that other dude just posted,,,all of the above = ANY SINGLE NORMAL HUMAN BEING TO GET OFF THE OLYMPUS HE CLIMED ON AND UNDERSTAND THAT SANTA CLAUS IS NOT REAL and steeve reeves is like the rest of us.

wize up nd,, you are playing a game of exact answers to exact questions. this game can not be answered with 100% accuracy and reference quotes because we did not live in the 40s. i said before it was MY OPINION a VERY EDUCATED OPINION.

You claimed " in all my posts i never stated how much he took or its duration"

these are you quotes throughout this thread.



1) you claimed to know he didn't have consistancy in his drug use and further elaborated he didn't take much nothing to write home about .

steve reeves could be called natural because he did not have consistancy in his drug use. it was nothing to write home about.


2) you elaborated on what he took and the fact he didn't have enough to make significant gains

said reeves WAS natural. he experiemnted with testosterone and pre testosterone products (tablets) exactly like the nazi army experiemnted with them in the 30s and 40s. he didnt have enough product and he couldnt make any significant gains with them beside retaining some of the muscle while dieting hard. it was NOT to significant levels and was not a major factor.


3) You once again claim as a fact you know he experimented .

steve reeves was the closest thhing to natural that you will ever see as a bodybuilder. steve reeves was indeed a natural.



never the less steve reeves was indeed THE CLOSEST THING YOU WILL FIND TO NATURAL. he only experiemnted and nothing else and this is MY OPINION you can disagree.

4) here you claim to know for a fact when he started ( early 1940s ) which would make him 14 in 1940 , 15 in 1941 and 16 in 1942 etc which could all be considered the ' early 40s ' again you claim to know that he experimented whever he could get his hands on some.


steeve reeves did experiment with testosteone and other products during the 40s and 50s. he DID NOT finish his career natural. he INDEED was natural at the beggining simply because the level of testosteone plasma he achieved hurt him more than helped him during the early 40s. he simply experiemtned once in a while whenever he got some in his hands.

These are you quotes , stop backpeddling and acting like NOW you never claimed to know what he was taking or their duration because you simply did . and I thought you ' never lie ' ?   you already tried to say these were mearly your " OPINION " and now by deny ever saying them . you're being exposed for the liar you are.

[corinth]

NO. you put words in my mouth. i DID not say reeves took andriol and diabanol in the 40s in their final forms! ! ! ! ! !  he did took them during the 50s and 60s ofcourse but that was beyond bodybuilding aiming at his career more than his bodybuilding goals.

what i DID say was that reeves took testosterone in its rough stages in a tablet form,,he most likley took insulin too witch is a  LOT MORE anabolic if your body fat is low enough and he always maintain low body fat from his skinny teen ager years till the beggining of his experiemnting thus the insulin worked on him even better for anabolic activity and for maintaining muscle mass while cutting.

so,,NO he did not take ANDRIOL and DIANABOL during the 40s as the product you are femiliar with now days. he took testosterone tablets that are a lot more natural to the body than any other bi-test  product and sad for the athletes in the 40s,,,also didnt do much for constant blood levels of test.

it was a lot more for strength and endurance those days,,it was for,, as a bodybuilder,, being able to try to maintain the muscle mass through extra balistic strength achieved by those tabelts that at the end resulted by increased muscle mass or maintaining it,, as long as your nutirion was solid as in enough calories.

pay attention i do not mention any other stimulants for i am only talking about early stages of testosterone products and ofcourse good ole insulin by lilly. every thing was NOT supervized what so ever those days and was very very very EASY to get in europe and from the late 50s in usa normal every day gyms also.

wize up people

now give me my ISSA personal trainer license ,,,oh wait i already have my pro card

So now we've added insulin to the party. GH, you have no proof whatsoever of your claims. NONE.  You are nothing but a jealous loud mouth. You see a man with a physique you could never naturally attain and to make yourself feel better you insist he had to take steroids to look like that. That is pathetic in my book. I have no idea if Reeves ever took steroids and neither do you. Let the man rest in peace and stick to what you do best, talking about yourself...

[gh15]

i need to charge you on my advice,,those quotes you put there are the closet thing you will ever get to know the truth. it shows exactly what i claim as my opinion. i never back out of anything,, i just gave you a lesson and got your hero to a human scale level.

the fact you learned something new doesnt mean you got to feel bad,,i charge a lot more than internet time for my information and advice and you got them for free my friend

[gh15]

So now we've added insulin to the party. GH, you have no proof whatsoever of your claims. NONE.  You are nothing but a jealous loud mouth. You see a man with a physique you could never naturally attain and to make yourself feel better you insist he had to take steroids to look like that. That is pathetic in my book. I have no idea if Reeves ever took steroids and neither do you. Let the man rest in peace and stick to what you do best, talking about yourself...

again you need to feel lucky i am on this board,,the few times i offered to leave i got people begging me not to,, i am here for ONLY the truth. insuling was never added to the picture it was always there in my posts and in the bodybuilding world from the 30s and on in diff forms. (lilly produced it in the early 20!) insulin is more anabolic than any other hormone if you poses low body fat.

i said many times let reeves rest in peace while all you can bring to the convo is curses twards me. i also like reeves and that is why i talk about him with respect. any normal human can read my posts and say i know very very well where i come from and what im doing.

no need to argue with me

[gh15]

in about 5 min poor mike arvilla will be blamed for being me because he got issa license and bunch of kids will stalk him . leave it be i am the reason you can be big and muscular and stil compete with the best on an IFBB stage  and thats only thing you gotta know.

[NarcissisticDeity]

i need to charge you on my advice,,those quotes you put there are the closet thing you will ever get to know the truth. it shows exactly what i claim as my opinion. i never back out of anything,, i just gave you a lesson and got your hero to a human scale level.

the fact you learned something new doesnt mean you got to feel bad,,i charge a lot more than internet time for my information and advice and you got them for free my friend

Now you've been caught in another lie , you're now claiming to have said those quotes yet in the previous post you outright deny them .

in all my posts i never stated how much he took or its duration etc

Which is it? and again you are specficially backing out of answering the questions you claim to know.


How do you personally know Steve Reeves experimented with steroid?

How do you know the consistancy of his alleged use?

How do you know how much product he had avialable?

How do you know he did not finish his career natural?

How do you know the duration his alleged use?




Don't backpeddle and say this is mearly your " OPINION " this is just a tad more than an opinion , this indicates personal firsthand information . answer the questions.

[corinth]

again you need to feel lucky i am on this board,,the few times i offered to leave i got people begging me not to,, i am here for ONLY the truth. insuling was never added to the picture it was always there in my posts and in the bodybuilding world from the 30s and on in diff forms. (lilly produced it in the early 20!) insulin is more anabolic than any other hormone if you poses low body fat.

i said many times let reeves rest in peace while all you can bring to the convo is curses twards me. i also like reeves and that is why i talk about him with respect. any normal human can read my posts and say i know very very well where i come from and what im doing.

no need to argue with me

Respect a man by saying he used insulin, testosterone, andrial, dianabol, when he always claimed to be drug free. That's how you show respect? and your TRUTH only exists in your own eyes. And why do you constantly go back and forth between saying something it the truth and then two sentences later saying it is your opinion?

[NarcissisticDeity]

again you need to feel lucky i am on this board,,the few times i offered to leave i got people begging me not to,, i am here for ONLY the truth. insuling was never added to the picture it was always there in my posts and in the bodybuilding world from the 30s and on in diff forms. (lilly produced it in the early 20!) insulin is more anabolic than any other hormone if you poses low body fat.

i said many times let reeves rest in peace while all you can bring to the convo is curses twards me. i also like reeves and that is why i talk about him with respect. any normal human can read my posts and say i know very very well where i come from and what im doing.

no need to argue with me

You claim to like Reeves and talk about him with respect yet you're directly contradicting his claim he was drug free , thats disrespectful period. 

[NarcissisticDeity]

And you're being exposed for the douche you are.

And you've been exposed as a boot-licking groupie 

[gh15]

Why do you specify "if you posess low body fat"? I have high fat (20%+) and it's the fucken most awesome things I have ever taken in my entire friggen life. holy shit. I've lost a couple points of bf using it even...it's completely opposite what everyone says about "watch out or you'll get fat".

i didnt say it wont work if you have high bodyfat%,, what i said was that it will work BETTER if you got low bodyfat%. the reason ronnie got to be ronnie is not because he started insulin at 20% bf% but because he started it at 6% bodyfat. the reason you see bodybuilder developed to the level you see from year to year,,especially at the beggining stages of their prospective careers,, is because they had the courage to compete in lower level competitions at the beggining and then when they were 6% post competition they went on insulin and gh and other muscle building hormones and that was their secret to adding pure qualitative and quantitative size to their frame.

low body fat is the KEY for better gains (8-13% for the ave person). it dont mean you cant gain with higher bodyfat,,but 6-8% will gain extra 10-20lb on a cycle comparing to 25% bf powerlifter.

[corinth]

i didnt say it wont work if you have high bodyfat%,, what i said was that it will work BETTER if you got low bodyfat%. the reason ronnie got to be ronnie is not because he started insulin at 20% bf% but because he started it at 6% bodyfat. the reason you see bodybuilder developed to the level you see from year to year,,especially at the beggining stages of their prospective careers,, is because they had the courage to compete in lower level competitions at the beggining and then when they were 6% post competition they went on insulin and gh and other muscle building hormones and that was their secret to adding pure qualitative and quantitative size to their frame.

low body fat is the KEY for better gains (8-13% for the ave person). it dont mean you cant gain with higher bodyfat,,but 6-8% will gain extra 10-20lb on a cycle comparing to 25% bf powerlifter.

insulin is a transporter, what would body fat % have to do with it's effectiveness.

[gh15]

insulin is a transporter, what would body fat % have to do with it's effectiveness.

insulin will work better when your liver holds less fat. the way we develop monstrous physiqe,, the few of us who have it,, is by cleaning the liver of fat and competing at very low body fat atleast once or twice a year. low body fat will make any hormone work better on your physiqe. this is one of the biggest secrets you will hear and i need to charge you for that ,,,"liver fat storage" is the key reason for gains that stopped as a result of steroid use. the way to keep your liver low on fat storage is by keeping yourself on low to low double digit bodyfat at almost any moment of your bodybuilding career,,,or simply go off hormones and clean yourself completely for a while. (a while is 6 months not 2 months)

inositol and choline powders can help you on that one if you are  real natural bodybuilder (which is very hard to find now days) and maintain higher bf% as in 20%

insulin shuttles nutients to the muscle is a basic activity of the product but like everything else it is a chain reaction where if you dont have the whole chain connected,,you will see nothing in return.

[corinth]

insulin will work better when your liver holds less fat. the way we develop monstrous physiqe,, the few of us who have it,, is by cleaning the liver of fat and competing at very low body fat atleast once or twice a year. low body fat will make any hormone work better on your physiqe. this is one of the biggest secrets you will hear and i need to charge you for that ,,,"liver fat storage" is the key reason for gains that stopped as a result of steroid use. the way to keep your liver low on fat storage is by keeping yourself on low to low double digit bodyfat at almost any moment of your bodybuilding career,,,or simply go off hormones and clean yourself completely for a while. (a while is 6 months not 2 months)

inositol and choline powders can help you on that one if you are  real natural bodybuilder (which is very hard to find now days) and maintain higher bf% as in 20%

insulin shuttles nutients to the muscle is a basic activity of the product but like everything else it is a chain reaction where if you dont have the whole chain connected,,you will see nothing in return.

I have never heard of the liver storing fat, never.  how does insulin even work with the liver other than dipping into it for glucose stores as a last resort . I've never heard of the human body using the liver as a storage point for fat.

[pkaz]

You claim to like Reeves and talk about him with respect yet you're directly contradicting his claim he was drug free , thats disrespectful period. 

Hello.....  Many BBs claimed they were drug free, and for many years, and many still do.. gh15 is giving his opinion based on whatever information he has collected and or believes based on his experiences. Kind of like you expressing your opinion about gh15…

“Because he's full of shit and I'm calling him out and he's being exposed for what he is a jackass lair.”

I think that is your opinion as many would disagree with you….

Or your opinion about garraeth being “a boot-licking groupie”. Another opinion of yours…..

Bye the way, you stated…..

“if he has proof that steroids and anabolics were in use before 1956 he should provide it because as of right now his ' opinion ' is worthless”…

This has already been proven..

So again, relax….

[gh15]

have you ever seen a fat guy growing muscles out of the intake of insulin?
have you ever seen insulin NONE RESPONDERS that hold low% bf
i havent


* i am not talking about diabetic condition that is medicated with insulin.