lesson to remember (especially for beginners)

[corinth]

have you ever seen a fat guy growing muscles out of the intake of insulin?
have you ever seen insulin NONE RESPONDERS that hold low% bf
i havent

people get fat because they store fat in fat cells, not because they store fat in their liver

[gh15]

lordy lordy lordy lord:D jack tripper 1976

[ncmslippin]

people get fat because they store fat in fat cells, not because they store fat in their liver

I don't post much at all. But I have to chime in here to dispell some of the BS some of your are spewing. GH15 knows what he is talking about. I don't know if he is a pro, he certainly talks like one. I am a MD and I will try to explain how fat cells work and how they are stored and what effect insulin has on the body and fat cells are concerned. But GH15 is correct here. Let me explain:

Fat, or adipose tissue, is found in several places in your body. Generally, fat is found underneath your skin (subcutaneous fat). There's also some on top of each of your kidneys. Other locations depend upon whether you are a man or woman:

    * An adult man tends to carry body fat in his chest, abdomen and buttocks, producing an "apple" shape.
    * An adult woman tends to carry fat in her breasts, hips, waist and buttocks, creating a "pear" shape.

The difference in fat location comes from the sex hormones estrogen and testosterone.Fat tissue is made up of fat cells. Fat cells are a unique type of cell. You can think of a fat cell as a tiny plastic bag that holds a drop of fat:

    * White fat cells are large cells that have very little cytoplasm, only 15 percent cell volume, a small nucleus and one large fat droplet that makes up 85 percent of cell volume.

    * brown fat cells are somewhat smaller, are loaded with mitochondria and are composed of several smaller fat droplets. The mitochondria are able to generate heat.

Fat cells are formed in the developing fetus during the third trimester of pregnancy, and later at the onset of puberty, when the sex hormones "kick in." It is during puberty that the differences in fat distribution between men and women begin to take form. One amazing fact is that fat cells do not multiply after puberty -- as your body stores more fat, the number of fat cells remains the same. Each fat cell simply gets bigger!

In addition to fat tissue, some fat is stored in the liver, and an even smaller amount in muscle.

When you eat food that contains fat, mostly triglycerides, it goes through your stomach and intestines. In the intestines, the following happens:

1.Large fat droplets get mixed with bile salts from the gall bladder in a process called emulsification. The mixture breaks up the large droplets into several smaller droplets called micelles, increasing the fat's surface area.

2. The pancreas secretes enzymes called lipases that attack the surface of each micelle and break the fats down into their parts, glycerol and fatty acids.
3. These parts get absorbed into the cells lining the intestine.
4. In the intestinal cell, the parts are reassembled into packages of fat molecules (triglycerides) with a protein coating called chylomicrons. The protein coating makes the fat dissolve more easily in water.
5. The chylomicrons are released into the lymphatic system -- they do not go directly into the bloodstream because they are too big to pass through the wall of the capillary.
6. The lymphatic system eventually merges with the veins, at which point the chylomicrons pass into the bloodstream.

You might be wondering why fat molecules get broken down into glycerol and fatty acids if they're just going to be rebuilt. This is because fat molecules are too big to easily cross cell membranes. So when passing from the intestine through the intestinal cells into the lymph, or when crossing any cell barrier, the fats must be broken down. But, when fats are being transported in the lymph or blood, it is better to have a few, large fat molecules than many smaller fatty acids, because the larger fats do not "attract" as many excess water molecules by osmosis as many smaller molecules would.

Chylomicrons do not last long in the bloodstream -- only about eight minutes -- because enzymes called lipoprotein lipases break the fats into fatty acids. Lipoprotein lipases are found in the walls of blood vessels in fat tissue, muscle tissue and heart muscle. The activity of lipoprotein lipases depends upon the levels of insulin in the body. If insulin is high, then the lipases are highly active; if insulin is low, the lipases are inactive.

The fatty acids are then absorbed from the blood into fat cells, muscle cells and liver cells. In these cells, under stimulation by insulin, fatty acids are made into fat molecules and stored as fat droplets.

It is also possible for fat cells to take up glucose and amino acids, which have been absorbed into the bloodstream after a meal, and convert those into fat molecules. The conversion of carbohydrates or protein into fat is 10 times less efficient than simply storing fat in a fat cell, but the body can do it. If you have 100 extra calories in fat (about 11 grams) floating in your bloodstream, fat cells can store it using only 2.5 calories of energy. On the other hand, if you have 100 extra calories in glucose (about 25 grams) floating in your bloodstream, it takes 23 calories of energy to convert the glucose into fat and then store it. Given a choice, a fat cell will grab the fat and store it rather than the carbohydrates because fat is so much easier to store.

:It is important to note that as your body stores more fat, the number of fat cells remains the same; each fat cell simply gets bigger.:

When you are not eating, your body is not absorbing food. If your body is not absorbing food, there is little insulin in the blood. However, your body is always using energy; and if you're not absorbing food, this energy must come from internal stores of complex carbohydrates, fats and proteins. Under these conditions, various organs in your body secrete hormones:

    * pancreas - glucagon
    * pituitary gland - growth hormone
    * pituitary gland - ACTH (adrenocorticotropic hormone)
    * adrenal gland - epinephrine (adrenaline)
    * thyroid gland - thyroid hormone

These hormones act on cells of the liver, muscle and fat tissue, and have the opposite effects of insulin.

When you are not eating, or you are exercising, your body must draw on its internal energy stores of complex carbohydrates, fats and proteins. Your body's prime source of energy is glucose. In fact, some cells in your body, such as brain cells, can get energy only from glucose.

The first line of defense in maintaining energy is to break down carbohydrates, or glycogen, into simple glucose molecules -- this process is called glycogenolysis. Next, your body breaks down fats into glycerol and fatty acids in the process of lipolysis. The fatty acids can then be broken down directly to get energy, or can be used to make glucose through a multi-step process called gluconeogenesis. In gluconeogenesis, amino acids can also be used to make glucose.

In the fat cell, other types of lipases work to break down fats into fatty acids and glycerol. These lipases are activated by various hormones, such as glucagon, epinephrine and growth hormone. The resulting glycerol and fatty acids are released into the blood, and travel to the liver through the bloodstream. Once in the liver, the glycerol and fatty acids can be either further broken down or used to make glucose.

Insulin:

When you eat a candy bar or a meal, the presence of glucose, amino acids or fatty acids in the intestine stimulates the pancreas to secrete a hormone called insulin. Insulin acts on many cells in your body, especially those in the liver, muscle and fat tissue. Insulin tells the cells to do the following:

    * Absorb glucose, fatty acids and amino acids
    * Stop breaking down:
          o glucose, fatty acids and amino acids
          o glycogen into glucose
          o fats into fatty acids and glycerol
          o proteins into amino acids
    * Start building:
          o glycogen from glucose
          o fats (triglycerides) from glycerol and fatty acids
          o proteins from amino acids

Now stop spewing BS like little school girls. GH15 shared his opinion. I don't know about steve reeves and his insulin use, I didn't think anyone used insulin that far back then other than medical use but I could be wrong and I don't really care either way. But Gh15 is right on most counts when regarding insulin and it's use. 

[The True Adonis]

I don't post much at all. But I have to chime in here to dispell some of the BS some of your are spewing. GH15 knows what he is talking about. I don't know if he is a pro, he certainly talks like one. I am a MD and I will try to explain how fat cells work and how they are stored and what effect insulin has on the body and fat cells are concerned. But GH15 is correct here. Let me explain:

Fat, or adipose tissue, is found in several places in your body. Generally, fat is found underneath your skin (subcutaneous fat). There's also some on top of each of your kidneys. Other locations depend upon whether you are a man or woman:

    * An adult man tends to carry body fat in his chest, abdomen and buttocks, producing an "apple" shape.
    * An adult woman tends to carry fat in her breasts, hips, waist and buttocks, creating a "pear" shape.

The difference in fat location comes from the sex hormones estrogen and testosterone.Fat tissue is made up of fat cells. Fat cells are a unique type of cell. You can think of a fat cell as a tiny plastic bag that holds a drop of fat:

    * White fat cells are large cells that have very little cytoplasm, only 15 percent cell volume, a small nucleus and one large fat droplet that makes up 85 percent of cell volume.

    * brown fat cells are somewhat smaller, are loaded with mitochondria and are composed of several smaller fat droplets. The mitochondria are able to generate heat.

Fat cells are formed in the developing fetus during the third trimester of pregnancy, and later at the onset of puberty, when the sex hormones "kick in." It is during puberty that the differences in fat distribution between men and women begin to take form. One amazing fact is that fat cells do not multiply after puberty -- as your body stores more fat, the number of fat cells remains the same. Each fat cell simply gets bigger!

In addition to fat tissue, some fat is stored in the liver, and an even smaller amount in muscle.

When you eat food that contains fat, mostly triglycerides, it goes through your stomach and intestines. In the intestines, the following happens:

1.Large fat droplets get mixed with bile salts from the gall bladder in a process called emulsification. The mixture breaks up the large droplets into several smaller droplets called micelles, increasing the fat's surface area.

2. The pancreas secretes enzymes called lipases that attack the surface of each micelle and break the fats down into their parts, glycerol and fatty acids.
3. These parts get absorbed into the cells lining the intestine.
4. In the intestinal cell, the parts are reassembled into packages of fat molecules (triglycerides) with a protein coating called chylomicrons. The protein coating makes the fat dissolve more easily in water.
5. The chylomicrons are released into the lymphatic system -- they do not go directly into the bloodstream because they are too big to pass through the wall of the capillary.
6. The lymphatic system eventually merges with the veins, at which point the chylomicrons pass into the bloodstream.

You might be wondering why fat molecules get broken down into glycerol and fatty acids if they're just going to be rebuilt. This is because fat molecules are too big to easily cross cell membranes. So when passing from the intestine through the intestinal cells into the lymph, or when crossing any cell barrier, the fats must be broken down. But, when fats are being transported in the lymph or blood, it is better to have a few, large fat molecules than many smaller fatty acids, because the larger fats do not "attract" as many excess water molecules by osmosis as many smaller molecules would.

Chylomicrons do not last long in the bloodstream -- only about eight minutes -- because enzymes called lipoprotein lipases break the fats into fatty acids. Lipoprotein lipases are found in the walls of blood vessels in fat tissue, muscle tissue and heart muscle. The activity of lipoprotein lipases depends upon the levels of insulin in the body. If insulin is high, then the lipases are highly active; if insulin is low, the lipases are inactive.

The fatty acids are then absorbed from the blood into fat cells, muscle cells and liver cells. In these cells, under stimulation by insulin, fatty acids are made into fat molecules and stored as fat droplets.

It is also possible for fat cells to take up glucose and amino acids, which have been absorbed into the bloodstream after a meal, and convert those into fat molecules. The conversion of carbohydrates or protein into fat is 10 times less efficient than simply storing fat in a fat cell, but the body can do it. If you have 100 extra calories in fat (about 11 grams) floating in your bloodstream, fat cells can store it using only 2.5 calories of energy. On the other hand, if you have 100 extra calories in glucose (about 25 grams) floating in your bloodstream, it takes 23 calories of energy to convert the glucose into fat and then store it. Given a choice, a fat cell will grab the fat and store it rather than the carbohydrates because fat is so much easier to store.

:It is important to note that as your body stores more fat, the number of fat cells remains the same; each fat cell simply gets bigger.:

When you are not eating, your body is not absorbing food. If your body is not absorbing food, there is little insulin in the blood. However, your body is always using energy; and if you're not absorbing food, this energy must come from internal stores of complex carbohydrates, fats and proteins. Under these conditions, various organs in your body secrete hormones:

    * pancreas - glucagon
    * pituitary gland - growth hormone
    * pituitary gland - ACTH (adrenocorticotropic hormone)
    * adrenal gland - epinephrine (adrenaline)
    * thyroid gland - thyroid hormone

These hormones act on cells of the liver, muscle and fat tissue, and have the opposite effects of insulin.

When you are not eating, or you are exercising, your body must draw on its internal energy stores of complex carbohydrates, fats and proteins. Your body's prime source of energy is glucose. In fact, some cells in your body, such as brain cells, can get energy only from glucose.

The first line of defense in maintaining energy is to break down carbohydrates, or glycogen, into simple glucose molecules -- this process is called glycogenolysis. Next, your body breaks down fats into glycerol and fatty acids in the process of lipolysis. The fatty acids can then be broken down directly to get energy, or can be used to make glucose through a multi-step process called gluconeogenesis. In gluconeogenesis, amino acids can also be used to make glucose.

In the fat cell, other types of lipases work to break down fats into fatty acids and glycerol. These lipases are activated by various hormones, such as glucagon, epinephrine and growth hormone. The resulting glycerol and fatty acids are released into the blood, and travel to the liver through the bloodstream. Once in the liver, the glycerol and fatty acids can be either further broken down or used to make glucose.

Insulin:

When you eat a candy bar or a meal, the presence of glucose, amino acids or fatty acids in the intestine stimulates the pancreas to secrete a hormone called insulin. Insulin acts on many cells in your body, especially those in the liver, muscle and fat tissue. Insulin tells the cells to do the following:

    * Absorb glucose, fatty acids and amino acids
    * Stop breaking down:
          o glucose, fatty acids and amino acids
          o glycogen into glucose
          o fats into fatty acids and glycerol
          o proteins into amino acids
    * Start building:
          o glycogen from glucose
          o fats (triglycerides) from glycerol and fatty acids
          o proteins from amino acids

Now stop spewing BS like little school girls. GH15 shared his opinion. I don't know about steve reeves and his insulin use, I didn't think anyone used insulin that far back then other than medical use but I could be wrong and I don't really care either way. But Gh15 is right on most counts when regarding insulin and it's use. 

Very good post.

I know GH15 knows his drugs.  But he is wrong regarding Steve Reeves.

He is right about Insulin and all of the other drugs and knows his shit chemically.

[ncmslippin]

Very good post.

I know GH15 knows his drugs.  But he is wrong regarding Steve Reeves.

He is right about Insulin and all of the other drugs and knows his shit chemically.

I agree TA. The use of insulin back in Steve Reeves time  I am very skeptical about. I thought the use of Insulin was much more current than that. The use of AS back in his time was rare, let alone insulin use.  Like I said I could be wrong since I am not a pro and he may be privey to info I am not.  I highly doubt it though. I agree he does know his drugs though, (he would put some residents to shame that I know, no kidding.). Sad but true.

[ncmslippin]

I'm not a doctor, but I'm 100% sure the liver stores fat. I have a good friend who just went in to get her stomach "stapled", and we talked about this very thing. She had to go on a special diet for 3 weeks before specifically to reduce her liver fatty levels. Had she not, her liver would have been too big for the doctor to effectively go in and perform the operation.

You are correct. It does. Check my above post.

[The True Adonis]

I agree TA. The use of insulin back in Steve Reeves time  I am very skeptical about. I thought the use of Insulin was much more current than that. The use of AS back in his time was rare, let alone insulin use.  Like I said I could be wrong since I am not a pro and he may be privey to info I am not.  I highly doubt it though. I agree he does know his drugs though, (he would put some residents to shame that I know, no kidding.). Sad but true.

Is there any way to measure glycogen levels in the liver?

[The True Adonis]

And Muscles.

[ncmslippin]

Is there any way to measure glycogen levels in the liver?

Yes TA, a common test is usually a LFT( or Liver Function Test). Now I am not a lab chemist and I don't want to bullshit you and say I know every method there is to measure a LFT, but I can say the most common that I know of is glucose oxidase assay serum insulin concentration by an enzyme-linked immunosorbent assay (ELISA) kit. I usually don't know what method this or any other hospital uses is why I don't like to speculate on such issues I just order the nurse to call the lab and order a LFT.

A more common test is a "glucose tolerance test" used to determine a patient's ability to secrete insulin and maintain normal blood glucose levels after a glucose load.  They then measure their blood sugar level 10-14 hours following their last meal, drink a glucose mixture containing 75 grams of glucose and determine blood glucose levels after 30 and 120 minutes. The conclusions to such a test should be:

    *  Overnight fasting and light work do not normally reduce blood sugar levels  below normal levels. This should be readily apparent.

    * Consumption of a large sugar load leads to increases in blood glucose, but these are kept below those that lead to  appearance of glucose in urine.

    * Normal levels are again reached within 2 hours after ingestion of a glucose load.

    *  Blood sugar is quite stable under most physiological conditions in healthy people regardless of their activity level.  The only normal exception is the increase seen after meals. 

    * There must be powerful and sensitive mechanisms to control and stabilize blood sugar levels.  This is absolutely essential for the brain's metabolism as it cannot take up other nutrients from the blood stream.  There is, however, the exception of ketone bodies.  At best these account for about 50% of the brain's energy supply.

The first line of defense against a fall in blood glucose is the liver's glycogen reserve.  This polysaccharide can be rapidly split into glucose units which are then transported to the blood.  Indeed,this is the only major function of liver glycogen.  It is not utilized by the liver to support its own requirements for energy. 

More importantly we should be looking at how glucose and the liver effects our bodybuilding efforts and when to not and when to increase such glycogen levels. Liver glycogen levels fall dramatically during the night.  We wake up with little or no glycogen reserves.  The day should begin with a breakfast that includes carbohydrates. The glucose from these replaces the glycogen that is used while we sleep.   Liver glycogen falls thereafter, supporting blood glucose levels during the morning's activities.  A new increase in hepatic glycogen follows lunch, and a major climb is seen after a "good dinner" and an evening snack.  Then comes the long dark night and glycogen levels fall once more to rather low levels.

 What if you do not "listen to Mom" and skip breakfast?  Well, your blood glucose will probably be just as stable as after a good meal, but the mechanism for this will be quite different.  Instead of a hormone balance dominated by insulin and synthetic processes, skipping breakfast forces the body to call forward the stress hormones glucagon, adrenaline and growth hormone. These rearrange metabolism such that lactate and amino acids are converted by the liver to glucose, so-called gluconeogenesis.  We see that gluconeogenesis is quite active after about 10-12 hours after the last meal.  This may be a useful solution to keep blood sugar stable, but the stress hormone response does not lead to an ideal  setting for our bodies when on a strict diet where bodybuilding is concerned or to perform contemplative work that we must do on a day to day basis.

Gluconeogenesis can provide enough glucose for moderate energy utilization for some weeks, using amino acids derived from muscles as substrate. But this for a bodybuilder would be less than ideal.

[ncmslippin]

ncmslippin I see you posted a whopping 6 times...mind posting some more? Can you give any credence to the comment Chick made about getting all his gear/drugs prescribed to him by a doctor (in the states presumably since he lives here)?

I usually post on the a few AS boards to help out the guys there since most don't have adequate medical care and don't have access to a medical doctor. My time is very short( I work at a major trauma center ER) and I need to post where I would be most effective, and that is AS boards. I post under a different name other than this one but I will try to post more on here. It is 3AM here and I am just now taking my break(lunch).

As far as Chick getting all of his gear I don't really want to speculate. Perhaps he knows his Physician very well personally(family member, friend, etc.) I highly doubt that he gets all of his AS and ancillaries off of his physician since a Physician would not likely prescribe the needed drugs for a cycle for him, unless like I said it is a friend or a family member. But you have to also remember this, most of the drugs that are prescribed are not in a Pro BB arsenal. Such a test Prop, no HRT specialist would prescribe this unless necessary, since Test Cyp or Enan is the preferred Test of choice and it has a half life of about 14 days. Usually one shot weekly or bi weekly. Now there is no human grade Tren or Equipoise that a HRT would prescribe , I don't even think that human grade is made and I am sure any self respecting HRT specialist would not prescribe it. D'bol, forget it. Anavar yes, but how many Pro BB use this, none. Primo, yes. Nandrolone(Deca) quite often. Nolvadex not often but I have seen it prescribed, as well a clomid. You have to remember that a HRT specilist prescribes AS or Test or one of it's derivitives as Hormone replacement therapy, as such they should only prescribe what you are missing and your body is not producing naturally, hence the title Hormone Replacement Therapy.

I highly doubt he is getting all of his AS as prescribed by a doctor unless is is using only Test and Deca(nandrolone) and the few I mentioned above as well as some ancellaries. GH is a whole other story all together. Yes this can be prescribed and often is. I think he has a few prescribtions for test and GH as well as some ancellaries, this is certainly possible. Everything I doubt it.

[ncmslippin]

Thanks for answering.

Kinda what I thought:
--can get limited variety in limited quantities to replace what you're naturally lacking.
--Full bber spectrum of substances, no.
--Full bber quantity, no.

No problem.
No it's back to work I go. 

[Van_Bilderass]

Yup it's total bullshit that Pro's get all their drugs legally. And what they get, a little test, deca, GH, is not strictly legal either. It may offer some protection if busted with the drugs in possession but we've seen plently of "HRT" Docs and clinics busted due to catering to athletes. Prescribing hormones for athletic purposes is illegal. Period. Legit HRT is about replacing normal levels of testosterone, not about putting levels into supraphysiological range.

[NarcissisticDeity]

Hello.....  Many BBs claimed they were drug free, and for many years, and many still do.. gh15 is giving his opinion based on whatever information he has collected and or believes based on his experiences. Kind of like you expressing your opinion about gh15…

“Because he's full of shit and I'm calling him out and he's being exposed for what he is a jackass lair.”

I think that is your opinion as many would disagree with you….

Or your opinion about garraeth being “a boot-licking groupie”. Another opinion of yours…..

Bye the way, you stated…..

“if he has proof that steroids and anabolics were in use before 1956 he should provide it because as of right now his ' opinion ' is worthless”…

This has already been proven..

So again, relax….

Hello.....  Many BBs claimed they were drug free, and for many years, and many still do.. gh15 is giving his opinion based on whatever information he has collected and or believes based on his experiences. Kind of like you expressing your opinion about gh15…

Again many bodybuilders are open about thier use as well. now the ones who have to lie about their use are usually doing while they're currectly using . Steve Reeves retired in 1950 and use some logic & common sense . he would have absolutely no reason to lie what so ever. he was retired and lets entertain that steroids were available to him back then they wouldn't have been illegal so what would his motivation for lying 50 years after the fact be? simple none.

I think that is your opinion as many would disagree with you….

I don't care if many would disagree with , I stand by my statement. he may be extremly knowlegeble about the current drug scene but to speculate , on Reeves' drug use as far as , type , duration , and lenght isn't an opinion ...its fantasy.

Or your opinion about garraeth being “a boot-licking groupie”. Another opinion of yours…..

That wasn't my opinion mearly a stoop down to his level retort.

Bye the way, you stated…..

“if he has proof that steroids and anabolics were in use before 1956 he should provide it because as of right now his ' opinion ' is worthless”…

This has already been proven..

So again, relax….

I should have further elaborated on that statement.  if he has proof that steroids and anabolics were in use in the United States before 1956 he should provided it. because as of right now his ' opinion ' on the matter of Steve Reeves and steroid use is worthless.

and he has NOT proven anything he keeps avoiding the questions of how he came to his opinion of what Reeves took , how long he took it , what was available and what wasn't couple that with the fact now he's claims he probably used insulin lol its pure nonsense !

[gh15]

how about making a thread and ask the members of getbig if they think mr reeves was 100% natural and never experiemnted with hormones. i sugest you do it and see your big dissapointment to whos opinion they respect more try it my friend (make sure you make lots of extra names and also bring adonis to make extra names you will need it )

[NarcissisticDeity]

how about making a thread and ask the members of getbig if they think mr reeves was 100% natural and never experiemnted with hormones. i sugest you do it and see your bigi dissapointed to whos opinion they respect more try it my friend (make sure you make lots of extra names and also bring adonis to make extra names you will need it )

Again who cares what the majority would think? 50 million believe the same lie its still a lie. no one is doubting your knowlege about the current scene , I'm doubting your dubious claims of personal information about his experimentation.

You made very specific claims I'm asking you how you know these matter of factly. you're making very huge leaps by now saying he may have used insulin!  and you've yet to answer my original questions. please answer my original questions.


How do you personally know Steve Reeves experimented with steroid?

How do you know the consistancy of his alleged use?

How do you know how much product he had avialable?

How do you know he did not finish his career natural?

How do you know the duration his alleged use?

[LurkerNoMore]

Calling oneself an Emperor and the Be-All-End-All of all knowledge regarding every single aspect of bodybuilding, including the bodybuilders of the past themselves, along with vague threats towards other members to start looking over their shoulders is the most pathetic display of ego masturbating I have ever seen.

I think the flash in the pan just flashed out.

[NarcissisticDeity]

Calling oneself an Emperor and the Be-All-End-All of all knowledge regarding every single aspect of bodybuilding, including the bodybuilders of the past themselves, along with vague threats towards other members to start looking over their shoulders is the most pathetic display of ego masturbating I have ever seen.

I think the flash in the pan just flashed out.

What a great post !!

[gh15]

MAY have used insulin?? try "experiemented with insulin" with out the may infront of it. i always claimed he experiemnted with insulin and testosterone.

the answer i will give you for your questions will never satisfy you so why bother? you cant give me one proof to your claims that he never done it.

see the moment you provide me a "positive proof",,that make me look like an idiot,, i will provide you the best proofs any one possibly can online becuse as you notice i have short temper and i dont like to be proved an idiot

so here it is i give you a mission,,,go find a proof,,,some kind of drug test,,,or something to that level at that era (then you didnt know how to cheat the system so i will exept something like that) and i will give you solid proofs that will shock your world.

the point is neither you nor i can give 100% proofs. this is why it is called OPINION,,,but since i make a living out of "my opinions" id take them very seriously if i was you or any one else to that matter.

again you bring a SOLID proof and i open a PANDORA BOX. deal?

[gh15]

Calling oneself an Emperor and the Be-All-End-All of all knowledge regarding every single aspect of bodybuilding, including the bodybuilders of the past themselves, along with vague threats towards other members to start looking over their shoulders is the most pathetic display of ego masturbating I have ever seen.

I think the flash in the pan just flashed out.

the threat was for a specific drug dealer. those are no regular guys,,they earn in a single day what you make in a whole month. in rome act like a romanian my friend 

[NarcissisticDeity]

MAY have used insulin?? try "experiemented with insulin" with out the may infront of it. i always claimed he experiemnted with insulin and testosterone.

the answer i will give you for your questions will never satisfy you so why bother? you cant give me one proof to your claims that he never done it.

see the moment you provide me a "positive proof",,that make me look like an idiot,, i will provide you the best proofs any one possibly can online becuse as you notice i have short temper and i dont like to be proved an idiot

so here it is i give you a mission,,,go find a proof,,,some kind of drug test,,,or something to that level at that era (then you didnt know how to cheat the system so i will exept something like that) and i will give you solid proofs that will shock your world.

the point is neither you nor i can give 100% proofs. this is why it is called OPINION,,,but since i make a living out of "my opinions" id take them very seriously if i was you or any one else to that matter.

again you bring a SOLID proof and i open a PANDORA BOX. deal?

MAY have used insulin?? try "experiemented with insulin" with out the may infront of it. i always claimed he experiemnted with insulin and testosterone.

So I'll add this to my list of questions . how do you know he experimented with insulin? and at the begining of this thread you mearly claimed steroid use NOT insulin and now in this post you're claiming you always claimed thats simply not true , you just recently added this claim.

the answer i will give you for your questions will never satisfy you so why bother? you cant give me one proof to your claims that he never done it.

see the moment you provide me a "positive proof",,that make me look like an idiot,, i will provide you the best proofs any one possibly can online becuse as you notice i have short temper and i dont like to be proved an idiot

You know the answers you give me wont satisfy me because its bullshit. and again you're the one claiming to know what he took , how long he took it , what was available , etc.. NOT ME the burden of proof lies ON YOU to back up your claims and as of yet you have not done that.

And I provided you with a direct statement from Steve Reeves outright denying any use , thats a hell of a lot better than what you've come up with. and who should I believe? Steve Reeves or some allged IFBB pro on GetBig lol who supplements his imcome by dealing?

Now I can claim that you also supplement your imcome by doing gay-for-pay because its a realitive common practice among bodybuilders who aren't sloely making a living off the sport. now the burden of proof lies on me to back up that claim . but if I follow your lead I don't have to verify anything just make a baseless claim and tell you to prove me wrong. see how it works out?

so here it is i give you a mission,,,go find a proof,,,some kind of drug test,,,or something to that level at that era (then you didnt know how to cheat the system so i will exept something like that) and i will give you solid proofs that will shock your world.

the point is neither you nor i can give 100% proofs. this is why it is called OPINION,,,but since i make a living out of "my opinions" id take them very seriously if i was you or any one else to that matter.

again you bring a SOLID proof and i open a PANDORA BOX. deal?

Again these are YOU CLAIMS stop asking ot to prove anything this isn't about me ! this is about gh15 and his claims , prove your claims and stop making them.

[Palpatine Q]

Again many bodybuilders are open about thier use as well. now the ones who have to lie about their use are usually doing while they're currectly using . Steve Reeves retired in 1950 and use some logic & common sense . he would have absolutely no reason to lie what so ever. he was retired and lets entertain that steroids were available to him back then they wouldn't have been illegal so what would his motivation for lying 50 years after the fact be? simple none.

Did you know Steve Reeves personally? How could you even profess to know what the man's motivations would or wouldn't be? The only things you know about Reeves are what you read in a muscle magazine or online. Real credible sources


You call Garreath a groupie and you post shit like this

[gh15]

ok this will be the last time i respond on this thread since im  obviously talking to a kid. from reading you,,you simply have zero clue to what reality is in the uniqe, interesting and quite misleading world of bodybuilding.

most bodybuilders "have" a chemist degree my friend. i would not count on them as a chemist but most of us know chemistry  better than the fuckin proffessors. thats that

now i am ending this ridicoulous thread and WILL start another one later on when i have more time since someone got a comp soon and need to train a second session today

i will end this by giving you a major secret so maybe your big head can learn what i been trying to stuck in it the last 300 posts

have you ever heard about the combination of letters D N P? very popular drug (in 1930-40s nothing was a crime when it comes to sport enhancing products,,it was all in research phases)

add DNP too to the insulin and rough versions of  testosterone he experiemnted with. DNP WAS A VERY POPULAR FAT LOSS product AT THOSE DAYS

the problem is my friend,,,you DO NOT HAVE A CLUE about hormones. that is the main problem.

again i will start a complete new thread now about steve reeves and his drug use thank to guess who,,,,you got that one right i hope,,,you. in this thread i will elaborate about steeve reeves drug experiements and his ability to own the bodybuilding scene against the competition during the 40s.

another suggestion i would recomend to you is to open the arnold book about the education of a bodybuilder,,,since you love those books,,,in this book there is a picture of arnold standing last raw and then in the front raw there is a picture of franco,,,they are in the europian champinoship if i remember correctly with other young guys of the day.  franco is REAL NATURAL THERE  my friend.

i suggest you go and take a look and learn the difference between the 2 because since i dont charge you money on every sentence i say here,,,,i at the least! expect you to become educated.

enjoy and i will start a thread for my opinion about mr reeves and drug experiemnting either today or very soon. it will be very detailed and will help many here.

[NarcissisticDeity]

Did you know Steve Reeves personally? How could you even profess to know what the man's motivations would or wouldn't be? The only things you know about Reeves are what you read in a muscle magazine or online. Real credible sources


You call Garreath a groupie and you post shit like this

Thank you ! you just proved my entire point . I never claimed to know Reeves personally , or know his motivations . I'm not the one claiming to know what Reeves allegedly experimented with , the duration , the types gh15 did that , so don't be hypocritcal. don't complain I even hinted at knowing what his intenstions or motivations and not say a damn would to gh15 who in FACT claimed to know his intentions & motivation. when you do so it makes you look like a jackass.

Two facts are is follows , Steve Reeves flat out denies ever takeing steroids . this is a fact I have the book and its in black & white.

Fact anabolic steroids were NOT in use in the United States until the bare minimum 1956 , thats six years after Reeves retired. these are facts and I can back them up .

gh15 has yet to provide ANY facts what so ever as to his claims .

[NarcissisticDeity]

ok this will be the last time i respond on this thread since im  obviously talking to a kid. from reading you,,you simply have zero clue to what reality is in the uniqe, interesting and quite misleading world of bodybuilding.

most bodybuilders "have" a chemist degree my friend. i would not count on them as a chemist but most of us know chemistry  better than the fuckin proffessors. thats that

now i am ending this ridicoulous thread and WILL start another one later on when i have more time since someone got a comp soon and need to train a second session today

i will end this by giving you a major secret so maybe your big head can learn what i been trying to stuck in it the last 300 posts

have you ever heard about the combination of letters D N P? very popular drug (in 1930-40s nothing was a crime when it comes to sport enhancing products,,it was all in research phases)

add DNP too to the insulin and rough versions of  testosterone he experiemnted with. DNP WAS A VERY POPULAR FAT LOSS product AT THOSE DAYS

the problem is my friend,,,you DO NOT HAVE A CLUE about hormones. that is the main problem.

again i will start a complete new thread now about steve reeves and his drug use thank to guess who,,,,you got that one right i hope,,,you. in this thread i will elaborate about steeve reeves drug experiements and his ability to own the bodybuilding scene against the competition during the 40s.

another suggestion i would recomend to you is to open the arnold book about the education of a bodybuilder,,,since you love those books,,,in this book there is a picture of arnold standing last raw and then in the front raw there is a picture of franco,,,they are in the europian champinoship if i remember correctly with other young guys of the day.  franco is REAL NATURAL THERE  my friend.

i suggest you go and take a look and learn the difference between the 2 because since i dont charge you money on every sentence i say here,,,,i at the least! expect you to become educated.

enjoy and i will start a thread for my opinion about mr reeves and drug experiemnting either today or very soon. it will be very detailed and will help many here.

Again the master of avoiding direct questions ! I have read Arnold The Encyclopedia of Bodybuilding in fact I've read it cover-to-cover at least 5 times starting in 1985 . that has nothing to do with your claims.

elaborate on your claims about Steve Reeves specifically I don't care about anyone else , prove how you personally know Steve Reeves experimented with steroids and insulin.

[Palpatine Q]

Thank you ! you just proved my entire point . I never claimed to know Reeves personally , or know his motivations . I'm not the one claiming to know what Reeves allegedly experimented with , the duration , the types gh15 did that , so don't be hypocritcal. don't complain I even hinted at knowing what his intenstions or motivations and not say a damn would to gh15 who in FACT claimed to know his intentions & motivation. when you do so it makes you look like a jackass.

Two facts are is follows , Steve Reeves flat out denies ever takeing steroids . this is a fact I have the book and its in black & white.

Fact anabolic steroids were NOT in use in the United States until the bare minimum 1956 , thats six years after Reeves retired. these are facts and I can back them up .

gh15 has yet to provide ANY facts what so ever as to his claims .

What I did say 20 posts ago is that NOBODY knows. The thing is GH15 says he thinks he did because of his vast experience and thourough knowledge of anabolics and their effects, and you say you know he didn't because he said so. I'm with GH on this one.