Author Topic: Monster Overfeeding for skinny geeks!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!  (Read 16028 times)

ManBearPig...

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Re: Monster Overfeeding for skinny geeks!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
« Reply #75 on: August 20, 2006, 12:43:37 PM »

i agree, but if someone were actually 150 lbs at 6 feet plus as sarcasm described i dont see where they could go wrong eating that much if they had trained with some intensity.  i wouldnt call that overeating at all, especially when you're trying to fill in such a skinny frame.  sarcasm has stated before that he's debunked the "grazing" theory and feels people can get away with eating one big meal a day ala serge nubret.  but now 70 g's of protein is too much for one meal?  there's at least that much in an average sized steak.  

that shake looked fine to me as long as you're getting your protein cheap from costco and not paying muscletech prices

Second teh costco protein.  just got a jug.  great deal.
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Re: Monster Overfeeding for skinny geeks!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
« Reply #76 on: August 20, 2006, 01:47:01 PM »
Come on, this is bullshit.
You don't need 100g of dextrose after a workout, especially when your not on roids. 
That's way off. Also were do you come up with that ratio of 4:1??

I'd say 30g of protein and some complex carbs (about 50-60g) is okay for the first thing after a workout.
30 minutes later again 30g of protein and some more complex carbs.

The fast carbs will give you a insulin spike.

A professor on sports medicine told me that there has been shown no difference, going as low as 6 grams of amino acids post workout.

It's all about the carbs, those will give a insulin release. A sports scientist told me that 180 grams of carbs post workout would be something to try to get a kickass insulin release. And he also told me to keep the protein low, as that will slow down the carbs.

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Re: Monster Overfeeding for skinny geeks!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
« Reply #77 on: August 20, 2006, 02:00:03 PM »
According to conventional wisdom I'm supposed to eat like 500 grams of protein a day, I don't even eat half of that and I have no problem maintaining my size. It's hogwash. Think about where these beliefs originated......muscle mags trying to sell you protein. It's all genetics, like EVERYTHING in bodybuilding. What works for one doesn't work for the other, so there are no universal axioms. The people that truly progress in this "sport" are the one's who find what works for them and stick to it.

I've never heard anyone say you should eat 500 grams a day. As for maintaining size, most are not interested in that, most are interesting in growing.
Z

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Re: Monster Overfeeding for skinny geeks!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
« Reply #78 on: August 20, 2006, 02:02:11 PM »

i agree, but if someone were actually 150 lbs at 6 feet plus as sarcasm described i dont see where they could go wrong eating that much if they had trained with some intensity.  i wouldnt call that overeating at all, especially when you're trying to fill in such a skinny frame.  sarcasm has stated before that he's debunked the "grazing" theory and feels people can get away with eating one big meal a day ala serge nubret.  but now 70 g's of protein is too much for one meal?  there's at least that much in an average sized steak. 

that shake looked fine to me as long as you're getting your protein cheap from costco and not paying muscletech prices

How much is still debatable, used to be max 30 grams. 70 might be a little too much, who cares.
Z

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Re: Monster Overfeeding for skinny geeks!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
« Reply #79 on: August 20, 2006, 02:05:40 PM »
The fast carbs will give you a insulin spike.

A professor on sports medicine told me that there has been shown no difference, going as low as 6 grams of amino acids post workout.

It's all about the carbs, those will give a insulin release. A sports scientist told me that 180 grams of carbs post workout would be something to try to get a kickass insulin release. And he also told me to keep the protein low, as that will slow down the carbs.

YIP
Zack

Yes, but the insulin spike will do you no good in the long run.
The carbs are absorbed anyway, so low GI carbs will do. As for the protein, i don't take protein shakes at all.
5-8g BCAA after a workout followed by 20g amino acids 30 minutes later followed by a whole meal 30 minutes later.

The insulin spike every time you work out kills your insulin sensitivity, which means you will need more and more carbs to spike your insulin.
i take 4-6 g of cinnamon each day to keep insulin sensitivity high, then low carbs or very little carbs will do.
Studies show that cinnamon supplementation helps with insulin sensitivity.


Study given below.

Bioactive compounds extracted from cinnamon potentiate insulin activity, as measured by glucose oxidation in the rat epididymal fat cell assay. Wortmannin, a potent PI 3'-kinase inhibitor, decreases the biological response to insulin and bioactive compounds from cinnamon similarly, indicating that cinnamon is affecting an elements upstream of PI 3'-kinase. Enzyme studies done in vitro show that the bioactive compounds can stimulate autophosphorylation of a truncated form of the insulin receptor and can inhibit PTP-1, a rat homolog of a tyrosine phosphatase (PTP-1B) that inactivates the insulin receptor. No inhibition was found with alkaline phosphate or calcineurin suggesting that the active material is not a general phosphatase inhibitor. It is suggested, then, that a cinnamon compounds, like insulin, affects protein phosphorylation-dephosphorylation reactions in the intact adipocyte. Bioactive cinnamon compounds may find further use in studies of insulin resistance in adult-onset diabetes.


Cinnamon Improves Glucose and Lipids of People With Type 2 Diabetes
Alam Khan, MS, PHD1,2,3, Mahpara Safdar, MS1,2, Mohammad Muzaffar Ali Khan, MS, PHD1,2, Khan Nawaz Khattak, MS1,2 and Richard A. Anderson, PHD3

1 Department of Human Nutrition, NWFP Agricultural University, Peshawar, Pakistan
2 Post Graduate Medical Institute, Hayatabad Medical Complex, Peshawar, Pakistan
3 Nutrients Requirements and Functions Laboratory, Beltsville Human Nutrition Research Center, Beltsville, Maryland

Address correspondence and reprint requests to Dr. Richard A. Anderson, Nutrient Requirements and Functions Laboratory, Beltsville Human Nutrition Research Center, Bldg. 307, Rm. 224, Beltsville, MD 20705. E-mail: Anderson@307.bhnrc.usda.gov

OBJECTIVE—The objective of this study was to determine whether cinnamon improves blood glucose, triglyceride, total cholesterol, HDL cholesterol, and LDL cholesterol levels in people with type 2 diabetes.

RESEARCH DESIGN AND METHODS—A total of 60 people with type 2 diabetes, 30 men and 30 women aged 52.2 ± 6.32 years, were divided randomly into six groups. Groups 1, 2, and 3 consumed 1, 3, or 6 g of cinnamon daily, respectively, and groups 4, 5, and 6 were given placebo capsules corresponding to the number of capsules consumed for the three levels of cinnamon. The cinnamon was consumed for 40 days followed by a 20-day washout period.

RESULTS—After 40 days, all three levels of cinnamon reduced the mean fasting serum glucose (18–29%), triglyceride (23–30%), LDL cholesterol (7–27%), and total cholesterol (12–26%) levels; no significant changes were noted in the placebo groups. Changes in HDL cholesterol were not significant.

CONCLUSIONS—The results of this study demonstrate that intake of 1, 3, or 6 g of cinnamon per day reduces serum glucose, triglyceride, LDL cholesterol, and total cholesterol in people with type 2 diabetes and suggest that the inclusion of cinnamon in the diet of people with type 2 diabetes will reduce risk factors associated with diabetes and cardiovascular diseases.




Cinnamon Extract Prevents the Insulin Resistance Induced by a High-fructose Diet

B. Qin 1, M. Nagasaki 2, M. Ren 3, G. Bajotto 1, Y. Oshida 1, 2, Y. Sato 1, 2
1 Department of Sports Medicine, Graduate School of Medicine, Nagoya University, Furo-cho, Chikusa-ku, Nagoya 464-8601, Japan
2 Research Center of Health, Physical Fitness and Sports, Nagoya University, Furo-cho, Chikusa-ku, Nagoya 464-8601, Japan
3 Department of Visual Neuroscience, Graduate School of Medicine, Nagoya University, Furo-cho, Chikusa-ku, Nagoya 464-8601, Japan
Abstract

The aim of this study was to determine whether cinnamon extract (CE) would improve the glucose utilization in normal male Wistar rats fed a high-fructose diet (HFD) for three weeks with or without CE added to the drinking water (300 mg/kg/day). In vivo glucose utilization was measured by the euglycemic clamp technique. Further analyses on the possible changes in insulin signaling occurring in skeletal muscle were performed afterwards by Western blotting. At 3 mU/kg/min insulin infusions, the decreased glucose infusion rate (GIR) in HFD-fed rats (60 % of controls, p < 0.01) was improved by CE administration to the same level of controls (normal chow diet) and the improving effect of CE on the GIR of HFD-fed rats was blocked by approximately 50 % by N-monometyl-L-arginine. The same tendency was found during the 30 mU/kg/min insulin infusions. There were no differences in skeletal muscle insulin receptor (IR)-β, IR substrate (IRS)-1, or phosphatidylinositol (PI) 3-kinase protein content in any groups. However, the muscular insulin-stimulated IR-β and IRS-1 tyrosine phosphorylation levels and IRS-1 associated with PI 3-kinase in HFD-fed rats were only 70 ± 9 %, 76 ± 5 %, and 72 ± 6 % of controls (p < 0.05), respectively, and these decreases were significantly improved by CE treatment. These results suggest that early CE administration to HFD-fed rats would prevent the development of insulin resistance at least in part by enhancing insulin signaling and possibly via the NO pathway in skeletal muscle.



Hedgehog

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Re: Monster Overfeeding for skinny geeks!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
« Reply #80 on: August 20, 2006, 02:12:40 PM »
Yes, but the insulin spike will do you no good in the long run.
The carbs are absorbed anyway, so low GI carbs will do. As for the protein, i don't take protein shakes at all.
5-8g BCAA after a workout followed by 20g amino acids 30 minutes later followed by a whole meal 30 minutes later.

The insulin spike every time you work out kills your insulin sensitivity, which means you will need more and more carbs to spike your insulin.
i take 4-6 g of cinnamon each day to keep insulin sensitivity high, then low carbs or very little carbs will do.
Studies show that cinnamon supplementation helps with insulin sensitivity.



Ahh..

A fellow cinnamon eater. ;D

I don't think much of the desensitizing (sp?) after a workout. My overall carb intake is however dictated by it. I never eat simple carbs except for this one meal. Otherwise I stick to carb sources like brown rice and likewise.

I forgot where I read or heard about the insulin resistance not being affected when taking fast carbs post work out. Probably heard it at a seminar.

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Zack
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Bast000

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Re: Monster Overfeeding for skinny geeks!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
« Reply #81 on: August 20, 2006, 02:17:11 PM »
how lean are you Zachary?

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Re: Monster Overfeeding for skinny geeks!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
« Reply #82 on: August 20, 2006, 02:19:26 PM »
Ahh..

A fellow cinnamon eater. ;D

I don't think much of the desensitizing (sp?) after a workout. My overall carb intake is however dictated by it. I never eat simple carbs except for this one meal. Otherwise I stick to carb sources like brown rice and likewise.

I forgot where I read or heard about the insulin resistance not being affected when taking fast carbs post work out. Probably heard it at a seminar.

YIP
Zack

I got rid of all simple carbs a while ago and it works for me. I guess if you have your carbs under control it's not a thing to worry about.

I can't even stand these dextrose filled shakes PWO anymore.  ;D

Try complex carbs for PWO for a while and see if it works for you. It's better for your health in the long run and you might see some improvements or feel better.  ;)

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Re: Monster Overfeeding for skinny geeks!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
« Reply #83 on: August 20, 2006, 02:21:24 PM »
I was having cereal postworkout when gaining.  fuck dextrose.

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Re: Monster Overfeeding for skinny geeks!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
« Reply #84 on: August 20, 2006, 02:29:56 PM »
how lean are you Zachary?

The caliper reads approx 11%.

My guess would be that I'm somewhere at 13-14, calipers somehow read too low.

Waist is 33 inches. Got some abs.

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Re: Monster Overfeeding for skinny geeks!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
« Reply #85 on: August 20, 2006, 06:25:22 PM »
I notice sarcasm starts these "brutal gym owning" threads then leaves after the first page, watching it develop into a multi-page love-in. That seems to be what he enjoys most - just watching his work manifest into 5 pages of back-and-forth bickering

Personally, I'd like to hear some of sarcasm's "asking people how much test they're running" stories. He mentioned on another thread that he often asks people how much steroids they're taking, then rolls his eyes when they are at a loss for how he knew. He even did it to a cop.

A couple of those stories would be a nice change of pace.

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Re: Monster Overfeeding for skinny geeks!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
« Reply #86 on: August 20, 2006, 06:29:36 PM »
Yes, but the insulin spike will do you no good in the long run.
The carbs are absorbed anyway, so low GI carbs will do. As for the protein, i don't take protein shakes at all.
5-8g BCAA after a workout followed by 20g amino acids 30 minutes later followed by a whole meal 30 minutes later.

The insulin spike every time you work out kills your insulin sensitivity, which means you will need more and more carbs to spike your insulin.
i take 4-6 g of cinnamon each day to keep insulin sensitivity high, then low carbs or very little carbs will do.
Studies show that cinnamon supplementation helps with insulin sensitivity.


Study given below.

Bioactive compounds extracted from cinnamon potentiate insulin activity, as measured by glucose oxidation in the rat epididymal fat cell assay. Wortmannin, a potent PI 3'-kinase inhibitor, decreases the biological response to insulin and bioactive compounds from cinnamon similarly, indicating that cinnamon is affecting an elements upstream of PI 3'-kinase. Enzyme studies done in vitro show that the bioactive compounds can stimulate autophosphorylation of a truncated form of the insulin receptor and can inhibit PTP-1, a rat homolog of a tyrosine phosphatase (PTP-1B) that inactivates the insulin receptor. No inhibition was found with alkaline phosphate or calcineurin suggesting that the active material is not a general phosphatase inhibitor. It is suggested, then, that a cinnamon compounds, like insulin, affects protein phosphorylation-dephosphorylation reactions in the intact adipocyte. Bioactive cinnamon compounds may find further use in studies of insulin resistance in adult-onset diabetes.


Cinnamon Improves Glucose and Lipids of People With Type 2 Diabetes
Alam Khan, MS, PHD1,2,3, Mahpara Safdar, MS1,2, Mohammad Muzaffar Ali Khan, MS, PHD1,2, Khan Nawaz Khattak, MS1,2 and Richard A. Anderson, PHD3

1 Department of Human Nutrition, NWFP Agricultural University, Peshawar, Pakistan
2 Post Graduate Medical Institute, Hayatabad Medical Complex, Peshawar, Pakistan
3 Nutrients Requirements and Functions Laboratory, Beltsville Human Nutrition Research Center, Beltsville, Maryland

Address correspondence and reprint requests to Dr. Richard A. Anderson, Nutrient Requirements and Functions Laboratory, Beltsville Human Nutrition Research Center, Bldg. 307, Rm. 224, Beltsville, MD 20705. E-mail: Anderson@307.bhnrc.usda.gov

OBJECTIVE—The objective of this study was to determine whether cinnamon improves blood glucose, triglyceride, total cholesterol, HDL cholesterol, and LDL cholesterol levels in people with type 2 diabetes.

RESEARCH DESIGN AND METHODS—A total of 60 people with type 2 diabetes, 30 men and 30 women aged 52.2 ± 6.32 years, were divided randomly into six groups. Groups 1, 2, and 3 consumed 1, 3, or 6 g of cinnamon daily, respectively, and groups 4, 5, and 6 were given placebo capsules corresponding to the number of capsules consumed for the three levels of cinnamon. The cinnamon was consumed for 40 days followed by a 20-day washout period.

RESULTS—After 40 days, all three levels of cinnamon reduced the mean fasting serum glucose (18–29%), triglyceride (23–30%), LDL cholesterol (7–27%), and total cholesterol (12–26%) levels; no significant changes were noted in the placebo groups. Changes in HDL cholesterol were not significant.

CONCLUSIONS—The results of this study demonstrate that intake of 1, 3, or 6 g of cinnamon per day reduces serum glucose, triglyceride, LDL cholesterol, and total cholesterol in people with type 2 diabetes and suggest that the inclusion of cinnamon in the diet of people with type 2 diabetes will reduce risk factors associated with diabetes and cardiovascular diseases.




Cinnamon Extract Prevents the Insulin Resistance Induced by a High-fructose Diet

B. Qin 1, M. Nagasaki 2, M. Ren 3, G. Bajotto 1, Y. Oshida 1, 2, Y. Sato 1, 2
1 Department of Sports Medicine, Graduate School of Medicine, Nagoya University, Furo-cho, Chikusa-ku, Nagoya 464-8601, Japan
2 Research Center of Health, Physical Fitness and Sports, Nagoya University, Furo-cho, Chikusa-ku, Nagoya 464-8601, Japan
3 Department of Visual Neuroscience, Graduate School of Medicine, Nagoya University, Furo-cho, Chikusa-ku, Nagoya 464-8601, Japan
Abstract

The aim of this study was to determine whether cinnamon extract (CE) would improve the glucose utilization in normal male Wistar rats fed a high-fructose diet (HFD) for three weeks with or without CE added to the drinking water (300 mg/kg/day). In vivo glucose utilization was measured by the euglycemic clamp technique. Further analyses on the possible changes in insulin signaling occurring in skeletal muscle were performed afterwards by Western blotting. At 3 mU/kg/min insulin infusions, the decreased glucose infusion rate (GIR) in HFD-fed rats (60 % of controls, p < 0.01) was improved by CE administration to the same level of controls (normal chow diet) and the improving effect of CE on the GIR of HFD-fed rats was blocked by approximately 50 % by N-monometyl-L-arginine. The same tendency was found during the 30 mU/kg/min insulin infusions. There were no differences in skeletal muscle insulin receptor (IR)-β, IR substrate (IRS)-1, or phosphatidylinositol (PI) 3-kinase protein content in any groups. However, the muscular insulin-stimulated IR-β and IRS-1 tyrosine phosphorylation levels and IRS-1 associated with PI 3-kinase in HFD-fed rats were only 70 ± 9 %, 76 ± 5 %, and 72 ± 6 % of controls (p < 0.05), respectively, and these decreases were significantly improved by CE treatment. These results suggest that early CE administration to HFD-fed rats would prevent the development of insulin resistance at least in part by enhancing insulin signaling and possibly via the NO pathway in skeletal muscle.




I highly doubt taking high GI carbs PWO is going to affect your insulin resistance. Following a workout your cells are extremely insulin sensitive. Following your logic, all pros (that use slin PWO) would be diabetics...

Palpatine Q

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Re: Monster Overfeeding for skinny geeks!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
« Reply #87 on: August 20, 2006, 08:20:50 PM »
I've never heard anyone say you should eat 500 grams a day. As for maintaining size, most are not interested in that, most are interesting in growing.

Going by the 1.5 per lb. rule I should be taking in at least that. I don't take in half that, and never have, but Iv'e managed to go from 220 to 240(at times 250) in the last 3 years. That would be GROWING.

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Re: Monster Overfeeding for skinny geeks!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
« Reply #88 on: August 20, 2006, 08:28:51 PM »
hahaha no one here has a clue
A

Marty Champions

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Re: Monster Overfeeding for skinny geeks!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
« Reply #89 on: August 20, 2006, 08:33:20 PM »
eat to repair, grow, get fat
A

Palpatine Q

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Re: Monster Overfeeding for skinny geeks!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
« Reply #90 on: August 20, 2006, 08:55:52 PM »
eat to repair, grow, get fat

Please elaborate DW, you are one of the few here who looks like they have a clue.

gtbro1

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Re: Monster Overfeeding for skinny geeks!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
« Reply #91 on: August 21, 2006, 04:18:13 AM »
It's actually us who are honoured to serve under great leaders like you and the great Sarcasm, Mars 8)

it is impossible for you to serve under sarcasm...everyone knows that Mars is ALWAYS under sarcasm.


bmacsys

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Re: Monster Overfeeding for skinny geeks!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
« Reply #92 on: August 21, 2006, 04:40:37 AM »
Meltdown.

How long did it take you to think up this post you mindless toadie? ::)
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Re: Monster Overfeeding for skinny geeks!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
« Reply #93 on: August 21, 2006, 05:08:30 AM »
It's actually us who are honoured to serve under great leaders like you and the great Sarcasm, Mars 8)

Now that is sarcasm.


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Re: Monster Overfeeding for skinny geeks!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
« Reply #94 on: August 21, 2006, 05:12:53 AM »
How long did it take you to think up this post you mindless toadie? ::)

Not very long "bmacysdvGFD" oh brother what a fucking name what where you thinking? haha.

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Re: Monster Overfeeding for skinny geeks!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
« Reply #95 on: August 21, 2006, 05:20:45 AM »
I notice sarcasm starts these "brutal gym owning" threads then leaves after the first page, watching it develop into a multi-page love-in. That seems to be what he enjoys most - just watching his work manifest into 5 pages of back-and-forth bickering

Personally, I'd like to hear some of sarcasm's "asking people how much test they're running" stories. He mentioned on another thread that he often asks people how much steroids they're taking, then rolls his eyes when they are at a loss for how he knew. He even did it to a cop.

A couple of those stories would be a nice change of pace.

sarcasm is a drive-by postwhore
Z

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Re: Monster Overfeeding for skinny geeks!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
« Reply #96 on: August 21, 2006, 05:31:53 AM »
Not very long "bmacysdvGFD" oh brother what a fucking name what where you thinking? haha.

Hahahaha hey Mars, look up bmacsys' pic up from the Gallery of Getbiggers thread in the Pics of members board if you need a good laugh.

sarcasm is a drive-by postwhore

You should be the last one to talk about postwhoring, gimmick.

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Re: Monster Overfeeding for skinny geeks!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
« Reply #97 on: August 21, 2006, 05:53:26 AM »
Not very long "bmacysdvGFD" oh brother what a fucking name what where you thinking? haha.

Another in a long line of great posts. You brown-nosing toadie.
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bmacsys

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Re: Monster Overfeeding for skinny geeks!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
« Reply #98 on: August 21, 2006, 05:54:41 AM »
Hahahaha hey Mars, look up bmacsys' pic up from the Gallery of Getbiggers thread in the Pics of members board if you need a good laugh.



Whatever, you bald headed dwarf. You look like my neighbors lawn gnome.
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bmacsys

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Re: Monster Overfeeding for skinny geeks!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
« Reply #99 on: August 21, 2006, 05:55:42 AM »
Hahahaha hey Mars, look up bmacsys' pic up from the Gallery of Getbiggers thread in the Pics of members board if you need a good laugh.



Looking at your pic doesn't bring a laugh. It makes someone want to vomit.
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