Jay Cutler and Rich Gaspari: Fair comparison?

[GHGut]

What do you guys think?

Rich Gaspari...people always talked about his genetics or lack thereof and how he made more of them than anyone thought possible...was the second best bodybuilder in the world behind Haney for years...wouldn't quit, retaining the passion, drive and determination to be the best, even when his body started to break down (muscle tears)...

Jay Cutler...did anyone who watched Jay come onto the scene expect he'd be able to get as far as he has? (A testament to the man)...only Ronnie Coleman has stood in his way for years now as world's best bodybuilder...still holding up and getting better...

[IFBBwannaB]

If Jay came in with Rich Gaspari's hardness he would beat Ronnie - even judging traditions couldn't change that.  Then again, if any of the top five came in as hard as Gaspari I think the same can be said.  How did this guy get so damn hard??  Rich Gaspari would have beat Lee Haney in 1987 if he was only a couple of inches taller.

Crack is bad for you....see post above for proof 

[GHGut]

Crack is bad for you....see post above for proof 

Sorry,
I don't get it.
S-P-E-L-L it out for me?

[IFBBwannaB]

Sorry,
I don't get it.
S-P-E-L-L it out for me?

Jay wont win if he comes in at Gaspari condition.Matt acts like Coleman comes in soft.
People dont mention his condition because he is always very good.Even when he is off he is only behind Dex and one or two other guys.

When Coleman is on his condtion is up there with the best of them.

[IFBBwannaB]

Uh huh.  And what exactly do you think Jay does?

Pour Stanazolol insted of milk with his Dbol cereal..yummy..breakfast of champions! 

Seriously now...what does Jay dedication have to do with this 
Not to mention Coleman is just as if not more dedicated,remember he did everything that Jay does while being a cop.Jay does nothing else in his life.

[corinth]

For Jay to come in that hard he'd probably end up weighing in the 240's and he'd be way too small to handle Ronnie. If Jay could keep the size he currently has, plus add the hardness of Gaspari, he would be a formidable opponent to a 275 pound Ronnie. But keeping that size and getting that hard would be very, very hard to do.

[pobrecito]

I've been watching Cutlers "One Step Closer" and I am simply not impressed by his physique at all, I mean his mass is certainly impressive, but the "puffy" stomach, wide waist, weak back (relative to Coleman and Yates), less than stellar Calf genetics (fairly high calves for a causcasian), etc. Cutler simply looks like a cinder block, doesn't really have any standout bodyparts, and doesn't wow me like Coleman and Yates do. I doubt he will ever be Mr. O, which is sad becuase his dedication is second to none.

[thisiskeith12]

Pour Stanazolol insted of milk with his Dbol cereal..yummy..breakfast of champions! 

Seriously now...what does Jay dedication have to do with this 
Not to mention Coleman is just as if not more dedicated,remember he did everything that Jay does while being a cop.Jay does nothing else in his life.

Actually Jay does real estate. And Ronnie doesn't patrol anymore.

[thisiskeith12]

I've been watching Cutlers "One Step Closer" and I am simply not impressed by his physique at all, I mean his mass is certainly impressive, but the "puffy" stomach, wide waist, weak back (relative to Coleman and Yates), less than stellar Calf genetics (fairly high calves for a causcasian), etc. Cutler simply looks like a cinder block, doesn't really have any standout bodyparts, and doesn't wow me like Coleman and Yates do. I doubt he will ever be Mr. O, which is sad becuase his dedication is second to none.

Cutler doesn't have calves? His calves dwarf Ronnie's and Dorian's. You are scum!

[corinth]

I've been watching Cutlers "One Step Closer" and I am simply not impressed by his physique at all, I mean his mass is certainly impressive, but the "puffy" stomach, wide waist, weak back (relative to Coleman and Yates), less than stellar Calf genetics (fairly high calves for a causcasian), etc. Cutler simply looks like a cinder block, doesn't really have any standout bodyparts, and doesn't wow me like Coleman and Yates do. I doubt he will ever be Mr. O, which is sad becuase his dedication is second to none.

I've been watching "One Step Closer"  as well and for all the talk about Ronnie's stomach Jay's is absolutely horrible throughout the whole video. Those shots of him in his kitchen the night before the O with his stomach just sticking a foot farther out than his chest are almost funny. I also have "Redemption" and watching Ronnie work out is almost surreal. Noone should be that big and that strong. It's an incredible sight to see.  Jay's definitely dedicated though. You get the impression watching him that he's never even one minute late for a meal or a workout. Ronnie just seems much more relaxed and laid back. Noonish, must be time to bench 500. 3ish, must be time to go to the Black Eye Pea. Both videos are great and good insights to each man.

[thisiskeith12]

Not so sure about Dorian's.  Dorian's calves were massive.  Jay has bigger calves than Ronnie though, but not by much.  They are superior in terms of shape and balance though.

Ronnie has small high calves. And 90% less brain cells.

[pobrecito]

hmm...why does Yates impress you but not Cutler?  Yates may be harder, but both have wide waists and are built in much the same way.  Cutler would be way more impressive if his waist was smaller, but that comes down to genetics and I don't see his waist size changing.

Cutler's waist is well wider than Dorian's, check the 93 tape, Dorian's waist was small for a white guy 257lbs (if someone could tell me how to get stinking screenshots I would take some).

Also, Cutler has never come close to Yates' overall condition, esp. his lower back. Plus, as blocky as you all claim Dorian was, he is nowhere near as blocky as Cutler is. Cutler just doesn't really look good in any poses

[body88]

For Jay to come in that hard he'd probably end up weighing in the 240's and he'd be way too small to handle Ronnie. If Jay could keep the size he currently has, plus add the hardness of Gaspari, he would be a formidable opponent to a 275 pound Ronnie. But keeping that size and getting that hard would be very, very hard to do.

Jay was what 270 last year? You think he would have to shed 30 more lbs to be as ripped as gaspari was? lol

[corinth]

Jay was what 270 last year? You think he would have to shed 30 more lbs to be as ripped as gaspari was? lol

Jay was 267, I think he'd have to loose about 20 pounds to be as hard and ripped as Gaspari. 10 of it would have to come from his waist.

[pobrecito]

Do you have the PowerDVD program?

no

[body88]

Jay was 267, I think he'd have to loose about 20 pounds to be as hard and ripped as Gaspari. 10 of it would have to come from his waist.

Actually doesent sound to far fetched if you put it that way.

[pobrecito]

I'll check that out Matt, thanks


Now, on to more serious matters

I've always contended I know why Ronnie is Mr. Olympia, and it's exactly what he says. He's the only one who wants to lift any "heavy ass weights" (same reason Dorian won, he trained heaviest and hardest, unfortunately he broke down).

Anyways, in Cutler's new video he does deadlifts off a rack (not rack deads per se, but 3/4 deads). Goes up to 495 grunting loud as hell. He mentions that he stops doing deadlifts off the floor 6 weeks out becuase it puts too much strain on the waist

Too much strain on the waist? PLEASE. Coleman did 805 for 2 reps 5 weeks out. Cutler acts like it was bullshit he lost, but he JUST started doing basic exercises (deads, BB row, T-bar row) that Coleman has been doing for about 10-15 years, and he expects to beat Coleman

[body88]

I'll check that out Matt, thanks


Now, on to more serious matters

I've always contended I know why Ronnie is Mr. Olympia, and it's exactly what he says. He's the only one who wants to lift any "heavy ass weights" (same reason Dorian won, he trained heaviest and hardest, unfortunately he broke down).

Anyways, in Cutler's new video he does deadlifts off a rack (not rack deads per se, but 3/4 deads). Goes up to 495 grunting loud as hell. He mentions that he stops doing deadlifts off the floor 6 weeks out becuase it puts too much strain on the waist

Too much strain on the waist? PLEASE. Coleman did 805 for 2 reps 5 weeks out. Cutler acts like it was bullshit he lost, but he JUST started doing basic exercises (deads, BB row, T-bar row) that Coleman has been doing for about 10-15 years, and he expects to beat Coleman

You think since Jay does not train like Ronnie that is why he does not win the O? Maybe for his body his waist grows to much from deads. I bet you think if you sauced alot you would be a pro!

You do know that if jay trained the exact same as ronnie and both where on he would lose right? Since ronnie has the better genetics and shape.

[pobrecito]

Jay has been training "Ronnie style" now for basically 1 full year and look at the improvement he made in back. You think if he would have been training that instead of machines for 10 years he might have a better shot at beating ronnie

[body88]

Jay has been training "Ronnie style" now for basically 1 full year and look at the improvement he made in back. You think if he would have been training that instead of machines for 10 years he might have a better shot at beating ronnie

No. He does not have the natural shape and detail coleman does. By the way I saw Jay train about 6 years ago as well as know guys he trained with when in mass and he trains just as hard as any pro out there. Machines lol.

[pobrecito]

No. He does not have the natural shape and detail coleman does. By the way I saw Jay train about 6 years ago as well as know guys he trained with when in mass and he trains just as hard as any pro out there. Machines lol.

he doesn't have the shape and detail becuase he trained like a pussy comapared to Coleman. Cutler stuggles pretty good with 8plate T-bar row here and ronnie was doing that back in 1997 .....you think training on a machine is anywhere near 12 plate t-bar rows, 495lb bb row, 800lb deadlift?

[body88]

I have seen Jay train in person. 5 feet away. Have you? Many people on here can vouch the same. Jay is a beast in the gym. I don't give a shit what you saw on a video 2 weeks out. He hits the heavy compounds just as hard as Ronnie. Maybe he isn't as gifted strength wise, but he trains just as hard. I guess you cannot see that Ronnie is genetically superior to every single guy he beats. No amount of heavy lifting is going to make  a guys genetics better. Kovacks lifts heavy as shit. Look at how great he looks.

You obv think since he does not train the same style as Ronnie that is the reason he does not have a better shot at the O. The guys dedication and grit are second to none. Was Ronnie dragging his ass out of bed at 2a, to do cardio? Guess that is why he was not as ripped as years past You couldn't hold Cutlers right testicle up in a workout!

[pobrecito]

I have seen Jay train in person. 5 feet away. Have you? Many people on here can vouch the same. Jay is a beast in the gym. I don't give a shit what you saw on a video 2 weeks out. He hits the heavy compounds just as hard as Ronnie. Maybe he isn't as gifted strength wise, but he trains just as hard. I guess you cannot see that Ronnie is genetically superior to every single guy he beats. No amount of heavy lifting is going to make  a guys genetics better. Kovacks lifts heavy as shit. Look at how great he looks.

You obv think since he does not train the same style as Ronnie that is the reason he does not have a better shot at the O. The guys dedication and grit are second to none. Was Ronnie dragging his ass out of bed at 2a, to do cardio? Guess that is why he was not as ripped as years past You couldn't hold Cutlers right testicle up in a workout!

Ronnie worked a full 8 hour day, and was up doing an hour of cardio at midnight before bed. He actually did MORE than Jay ever did, becuase Jay never had to have a full-time job.

Bottom line is, Jay finally realized how to become a champion, and that is to train like Dorian and Ronnie did, heavy barbell rows and deadlifts, something he did little of before. The problem was it took him well too long to figure this out. Coleman has already been training this way for 10 years. Just look at the improvement Jay made in back from 2004 to 2005, huge improvement, all becuase he started training like Coleman