When PROS COME OFF DRUGS.

[danielson]

the criteria is 1 year with no prohormones,  I took prohormones 6 months ago, will be 7 next month.   So going by there criteria I'm out. 

But I could enter any natural show and pass the drug test.

I actually thought you were a nattie? You looked good in your last pics, juicehead or not.

[alexxx]

Guys I have a confession to make.. I  took  something  2 cycles of............   creatine. But I came off cycle stronger..

[Mr.Hutch]

Guys I have a confession to make.. I  took  something  2 cycles of............   creatine. But I came off cycle stronger..

dont worry you cant tell....

[the choad]

the criteria is 1 year with no prohormones,  I took prohormones 6 months ago, will be 7 next month.   So going by there criteria I'm out. 

But I could enter any natural show and pass the drug test.

Bast how could you...Like they say on Bodybuilding.com all you need is whey a muti and creatine...and you will grow..

[brianX]

Heavy prohormone users are definitely not "natural". Taking drugs that significantly raise your natural testosterone levels goes against the entire concept of being natural. I don't care if they're less effective than regular steroids. You're either drug free or you aren't. You can't have it both ways.

[jr]

Heavy prohormone users are definitely not "natural". Taking drugs that significantly raise your natural testosterone levels goes against the entire concept of being natural. I don't care if they're less effective than regular steroids. You're either drug free or you aren't. You can't have it both ways.

What about if you took nolvadex, which caused your testosterone levels to go from low normal levels to normal levels (hypothetically). Nolvadex tricks your brain into causing your testes to make more testosterone by blocking the negative feedback that estrogen has on your brain. Is that cheating? I mean it's your own balls making the test, as instructed by your pituitary gland in the brain.

Apparently tribulus, eurycoma, and other herbal shit increases test levels, is this cheating?

[gatrainer]

Apparently tribulus, eurycoma, and other herbal shit increases test levels, is this cheating?

only if you are f*cking someone besides your girlfriend and taking that stuff

[DK II]

What about if you took nolvadex, which caused your testosterone levels to go from low normal levels to normal levels (hypothetically). Nolvadex tricks your brain into causing your testes to make more testosterone by blocking the negative feedback that estrogen has on your brain. Is that cheating? I mean it's your own balls making the test, as instructed by your pituitary gland in the brain.

Apparently tribulus, eurycoma, and other herbal shit increases test levels, is this cheating?

Tribulus and the likes are not able to increase your test levels to a tenfold of it's normal output, like artificial hormones do.
Tribulus does nothing for a healthy 20 year old, PH and steroids do a lot.

[jr]

I was more interested in the opinion on nolvadex, I just added the tribulus line as a lame comparison. 
Lets say nolvadex took you from 300ng/dl testosterone level to 600ng/dl  (normal range for males being 300 to 900ng/dl).

[DK II]

I was more interested in the opinion on nolvadex, I just added the tribulus line as a lame comparison. 
Lets say nolvadex took you from 300ng/dl testosterone level to 600ng/dl  (normal range for males being 300 to 900ng/dl).

To me, even nolvadex would be not considered natural. But that's my opinion.

I consider it wrong to take medication to up my test levels.

[jr]

Ok, lets complicate things a little. Lets say at 20 years of age you had a test level of 600. Ten years later due to a stressful lifestyle (rec drug and alcohol use, stressful job, bouts of depression) your levels have dropped to 300 because the stress has screwed up your endocrine system function. You do a couple of 'cycles' of nolvadex (under doctors supervision) which brings you back to a level of 600. A year has past since you have last done nolvadex and you are still running under your own steam at 600. You could still be considered natural.

Though I agree with you that running nolvadex non stop year round would def be unnatural.

[DK II]

Ok, lets complicate things a little. Lets say at 20 years of age you had a test level of 600. Ten years later due to a stressful lifestyle (rec drug and alcohol use, stressful job, bouts of depression) your levels have dropped to 300 because the stress has screwed up your endocrine system function. You do a couple of 'cycles' of nolvadex (under doctors supervision) which brings you back to a level of 600. A year has past since you have last done nolvadex and you are still running under your own steam at 600. You could still be considered natural.

Though I agree with you that running nolvadex non stop year round would def be unnatural.

Not a lifetime natural anymore. Not that i'm all against HRT or something like that, but i would not consider you a lifetime natural anymore.
It would be the same if you do just one cycle of test. 

[jr]

No, the difference is a cycle of test will increase your test levels to far far beyond what you can acheive naturally. EG a 500mg injection of testosterone will result in a 3000ng/dl blood test reading, a far cry from the male natural average of 600.

[DK II]

No, the difference is a cycle of test will increase your test levels to far far beyond what you can acheive naturally. EG a 500mg injection of testosterone will result in a 3000ng/dl blood test reading, a far cry from the male natural average of 600.

I know. But i think that it's the same in regarding that you put your body to a medication that's not necessary.

[Palpatine Q]

Not a lifetime natural anymore. Not that i'm all against HRT or something like that, but i would not consider you a lifetime natural anymore.
It would be the same if you do just one cycle of test. 

That's a pretty high standard. If someone has low test levels and uses OTC supplements (6-OXO, Novedex XT, Trib) to bring them up a little I would still consider them a natty. To me a non natty TODAY that wasn't taking actual gear would be on Halodrol 50, superdrol and shit like that, things that are clearly meant to put muscle on you. Also from what I understand you can still get M1T if you know where to look.

[DK II]

That's a pretty high standard. If someone has low test levels and uses OTC supplements (6-OXO, Novedex XT, Trib) to bring them up a little I would still consider them a natty. To me a non natty TODAY that wasn't taking actual gear would be on Halodrol 50, superdrol and shit like that, things that are clearly meant to put muscle on you. Also from what I understand you can still get M1T if you know where to look.

Yup, i always have high standards. 

[Hedgehog]

the criteria is 1 year with no prohormones,  I took prohormones 6 months ago, will be 7 next month.   So going by there criteria I'm out. 

But I could enter any natural show and pass the drug test.

What rules will apply this year?

-Hedge

[Lee_a_priest]

I`d like to hear a Pros take on the way he feels and thinks when he comes off of drugs completely.

Is it a rude awakening?  Do you feel awful?  Are you depressed?  Does it fuck with your head?  Can you still even bring yourself to train?  Do you then realize its harder to stay lean as opposed to when on drugs?

I`d like to hear from Shawn Ray or anyone for that matter.

WELL I AM OFF HAVE BEEN SINCE LAST SEPTEMBER...AND NO TO ALL THE ABOVE....I FEL GREAT....WIEGH 260 RIGHT NOW ...STILL TRAIN HARD IF NOT HARDER..AS I DONT FEEL THAT SHITTY SICK FEELING WHEN ON SHIT...........NO GRANTED I WILL GO BACKON COME CONTEST TIME BUT TILL THEN I FEEL GREAT....I WISH THEY WOULD DRUG TEST ALL SHOWS.....I HAVE NO PROBLEM WITH IT AT ALL

[Monster_Everything]

WELL I AM OFF HAVE BEEN SINCE LAST SEPTEMBER...AND NO TO ALL THE ABOVE....I FEL GREAT....WIEGH 260 RIGHT NOW ...STILL TRAIN HARD IF NOT HARDER..AS I DONT FEEL THAT SHITTY SICK FEELING WHEN ON SHIT...........NO GRANTED I WILL GO BACKON COME CONTEST TIME BUT TILL THEN I FEEL GREAT....I WISH THEY WOULD DRUG TEST ALL SHOWS.....I HAVE NO PROBLEM WITH IT AT ALL

yeah, but Lee your a genentic freak...not the avg. roider mcroiderson..

[musclehedz]

WELL I AM OFF HAVE BEEN SINCE LAST SEPTEMBER...AND NO TO ALL THE ABOVE....I FEL GREAT....WIEGH 260 RIGHT NOW ...STILL TRAIN HARD IF NOT HARDER..AS I DONT FEEL THAT SHITTY SICK FEELING WHEN ON SHIT...........NO GRANTED I WILL GO BACKON COME CONTEST TIME BUT TILL THEN I FEEL GREAT....I WISH THEY WOULD DRUG TEST ALL SHOWS.....I HAVE NO PROBLEM WITH IT AT ALL

It's fairly easy getting rid of roids out of your body, or to mask it with chemicals. Look at the tennis players for example.

[ricosauve]

I`d like to hear a Pros take on the way he feels and thinks when he comes off of drugs completely.

Is it a rude awakening?  Do you feel awful?  Are you depressed?  Does it fuck with your head?  Can you still even bring yourself to train?  Do you then realize its harder to stay lean as opposed to when on drugs?

I`d like to hear from Shawn Ray or anyone for that matter.

Do you know what i find interesting? its that an border line crack head look a like person suck as you can call yourself bodybuilder    

[ThaRealist]

I am still in awe of how many "naturals" are obsessed with people that chose to use AAS...I mean damn, why are many them soo obsessed with juicers??? I hear this shit all the time in the gym and I just laugh at these guys...You never hear a bunch of guys that use AAS in the gym sitting around discussing naturals and bitching about them LoL....Envy/jealousy is a quality most naturals seem to have about AAS users....

[omg]

WELL I AM OFF HAVE BEEN SINCE LAST SEPTEMBER...AND NO TO ALL THE ABOVE....I FEL GREAT....WIEGH 260 RIGHT NOW ...STILL TRAIN HARD IF NOT HARDER..AS I DONT FEEL THAT SHITTY SICK FEELING WHEN ON SHIT...........NO GRANTED I WILL GO BACKON COME CONTEST TIME BUT TILL THEN I FEEL GREAT....I WISH THEY WOULD DRUG TEST ALL SHOWS.....I HAVE NO PROBLEM WITH IT AT ALL

haha lee the lies u utter.

u know very well they will never drug test all shows for obvious reasons. if they did, you would be 150pounds at your 5'4.

[Special Ed]

Lee has no reason to lie. Unlike liars, his stories never change. And his physique never dramatically differs. He eats big and gets big off-season and then turns it on, sucks it up, and gets shredded for a show.

Again, we're talking about a freak who looked better at 13 than most look at 31. The guy turned pro at 21. When was the last time that happened? Oh yeah, it was when Lee Priest did it.

[Laura Lee]

I`d like to hear a Pros take on the way he feels and thinks when he comes off of drugs completely.

Is it a rude awakening?  Do you feel awful?  Are you depressed?  Does it fuck with your head?  Can you still even bring yourself to train?  Do you then realize its harder to stay lean as opposed to when on drugs?

I`d like to hear from Shawn Ray or anyone for that matter.

Go visit Titus and ask him.  He is probably the best candidate for this question.