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Author Topic: U.S. probes Israeli use of cluster bombs in civilian areas of Lebanon  (Read 3067 times)
Hugo Chavez
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« on: August 25, 2006, 08:57:09 AM »

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20060825/ap_on_go_ca_st_pe/us_israel_weapons_1

The investigation, like others that have happened, will be dropped, forgotten, and the person who brough it up will be, reassigned or forced to resign.  Actually there is no ivestigation I'm sure...
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The Showstoppa
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« Reply #1 on: August 25, 2006, 08:58:40 AM »

Who cares?  Cool
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ToxicAvenger
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« Reply #2 on: August 25, 2006, 09:20:00 AM »

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20060825/ap_on_go_ca_st_pe/us_israel_weapons_1

The investigation, like others that have happened, will be dropped, forgotten, and the person who brough it up will be, reassigned or forced to resign.  Actually there is no ivestigation I'm sure...


you mean the article implies we didn't know that we sold em..no GAVE em the cluster bombs?? Shocked
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« Reply #3 on: August 25, 2006, 09:41:46 AM »

It's being reported right now that Irael may have used cluster bombs in civilian areas that is in direct violation of international law.  When these cluster bombs get dropped and don't detonate they become like land mines.
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headhuntersix
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« Reply #4 on: August 25, 2006, 10:03:50 PM »

So is blowing up a Sbarro's via suicide bomber or killing a bus load of school kids...international law.. i think the rags lead th league in violations of that..gimme a break.
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« Reply #5 on: August 25, 2006, 11:22:39 PM »

I'm not attempting anything.. I could care less about how many cluster bombs fell on the rags....U mentioned international law..who gives  a shit.  Grin
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headhuntersix
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« Reply #6 on: August 26, 2006, 12:58:51 AM »

Use of Cluster bomb munitions have  two purposes.. area denial and the straight forward destructive power. They are a wonderful weapon. the can cut off and entire grid square... an entire airfield or in this case attempt to cut off movement of Hez forces while directly destroying Rocket postions. You can load in small mines as well. The folks that lived in those areas' were warned and told to leave. Some did but many did not. Many of these people support/hide/defend Hezbollah. This is called fourth generation war..something that Israel has fought since they first invaded but an idea that the West has only taken to heart since the US invasion of Iraq. the people live , work and protect the enemy that you re trying to fight. They are just as guilty as the enemy that you have to fight. There is no difference between combatants and civilians in this type of war. You have two choices..wage total war and kill eveybody or attempt to separate the combatants from the civilinas through poltical and diplomatic means...hearts and minds. The Israeli's waged a bit of total war. I think cluster munitions are great Grin
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JOHN MATRIX
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« Reply #7 on: August 26, 2006, 01:22:31 AM »

headhunter is exactly right as usual.
beserker...give me a break Roll Eyes
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headhuntersix
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« Reply #8 on: August 26, 2006, 01:26:15 AM »

I was commenting on the fact that the folks who got killed as part of the violation of international law should have moved. By staying they are or have become combatants. I did not pull that crap outa my ass...its an idea that is floating around the Pentagon and viewed by historians as shift on how we view combat in urban operations. Its what I do for a living so its as accurate as the doctrine or idea is. Look up fourth generation warfare its very long and involved.
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Hugo Chavez
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« Reply #9 on: August 26, 2006, 01:31:38 AM »

headhunter is exactly right as usual.
beserker...give me a break Roll Eyes
You're right John, I'm sorry Headguy Grin
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headhuntersix
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« Reply #10 on: August 26, 2006, 01:40:34 AM »

And if we can find peace maybe there is hope for the rest of humanity.  Grin
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Hugo Chavez
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« Reply #11 on: August 26, 2006, 01:57:49 AM »

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headhuntersix
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« Reply #12 on: August 26, 2006, 04:20:24 AM »

Your apparently having way more fun then me............... Cry
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« Reply #13 on: August 26, 2006, 05:06:50 PM »

So is blowing up a Sbarro's via suicide bomber or killing a bus load of school kids...international law.. i think the rags lead th league in violations of that..gimme a break.

GI-Joe trying using your fucking brain for a change..

"rags" are not a fucking country, dumbass. Israel is a country and should be held accountable.
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OzmO
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« Reply #14 on: August 26, 2006, 05:45:08 PM »

Use of Cluster bomb munitions have  two purposes.. area denial and the straight forward destructive power. They are a wonderful weapon. the can cut off and entire grid square... an entire airfield or in this case attempt to cut off movement of Hez forces while directly destroying Rocket postions. You can load in small mines as well. The folks that lived in those areas' were warned and told to leave. Some did but many did not. Many of these people support/hide/defend Hezbollah. This is called fourth generation war..something that Israel has fought since they first invaded but an idea that the West has only taken to heart since the US invasion of Iraq. the people live , work and protect the enemy that you re trying to fight. They are just as guilty as the enemy that you have to fight. There is no difference between combatants and civilians in this type of war. You have two choices..wage total war and kill eveybody or attempt to separate the combatants from the civilinas through poltical and diplomatic means...hearts and minds. The Israeli's waged a bit of total war. I think cluster munitions are great Grin

Sorry i strongly disagree.  A little girl age 14 doesn't have any choice who occupies her nieghborhood and niether does the any objector to Hezbollah.  So a girl goes walking in a field and steps on a unexploded cluster bomb.  Does she deserve that?  No f-ing way.  Aside from that i think it's against international law...  as if Israel ever pay attention to it.   

Hezbollah has been there for 4 generations?  After the Bull shit Israel has pulled over the years, (and hez is certainly not innocent either)  I'd want them there.  At least i have some level of protection/Deterence against their aggression.  The bottom line here is Israel went way overboard.  Way way overboard. The country now has taken 7 billion dollars of damage.  Yeah, that's going to spurr a mutual solution to both their problems.
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headhuntersix
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« Reply #15 on: August 27, 2006, 05:15:19 AM »

GI-Joe trying using your fucking brain for a change..

"rags" are not a fucking country, dumbass. Israel is a country and should be held accountable.


Sorry but I don't take a liberal approach to war having actually fought in one. Hezbollah is a terrorist organization responsible for killing innocent people. Israel did what it had to. Accountable for what.....
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headhuntersix
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« Reply #16 on: August 27, 2006, 05:23:12 AM »

Sorry i strongly disagree.  A little girl age 14 doesn't have any choice who occupies her nieghborhood and niether does the any objector to Hezbollah.  So a girl goes walking in a field and steps on a unexploded cluster bomb.  Does she deserve that?  No f-ing way.  Aside from that i think it's against international law...  as if Israel ever pay attention to it.   

Hezbollah has been there for 4 generations?  After the Bull shit Israel has pulled over the years, (and hez is certainly not innocent either)  I'd want them there.  At least i have some level of protection/Deterence against their aggression.  The bottom line here is Israel went way overboard.  Way way overboard. The country now has taken 7 billion dollars of damage.  Yeah, that's going to spurr a mutual solution to both their problems.


I would say that her parents and neighbors should have done more to not allow Hezbollah to occupy and use their towns/homes villages etc to launch rockets at a sovereign nation. Perhaps thats not practical..ok so maybe the nation of Lebenon should have exerted more control over the southern part of their own country. That should make perfect sense to anybody. Neither happend so Israel did what it needed to in order to defend itself.

You could argue that Israel went overboard..I can't argue that. You can employ cluster munitions..its where u fire them. In a perfect world its horrible to use such weapons in an urban area. However tactically it makes perfect sense. Israel did what it had to in order to save the lives of its people and in particular its troops.
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« Reply #17 on: August 27, 2006, 09:47:43 AM »


I would say that her parents and neighbors should have done more to not allow Hezbollah to occupy and use their towns/homes villages etc to launch rockets at a sovereign nation. Perhaps thats not practical..ok so maybe the nation of Lebenon should have exerted more control over the southern part of their own country. That should make perfect sense to anybody. Neither happend so Israel did what it needed to in order to defend itself.

You could argue that Israel went overboard..I can't argue that. You can employ cluster munitions..its where u fire them. In a perfect world its horrible to use such weapons in an urban area. However tactically it makes perfect sense. Israel did what it had to in order to save the lives of its people and in particular its troops.


No they can't.  The civilians don't have the "muscle" to do it if they wanted to.  How are you going to tell thousands of ARMED millitia type people to leave?  If you start talking you'll get beat down or killed.  Lebanon goverment's power base includes the exsistance and location of hez.  They are not getting rid of them and cannot do it if they wanted to.  You gotta remember this started over a simple kidnapping follow by a disproportionate response by israel attacking civilian areas THEN hez started launching rockets and it turned into what is was.

Of course using closter bombs make tactical sense, but so does using nukes.  If, civilians are involved th way they were you HAVE to use other methods, though less effective, to deminish civilian deaths. 
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