Ruby Ridge and Waco.....

[bmacsys]

How come our conspiracy theorists never brings these tragic saga's up? Because Bill Clinton was president?

[240 is Back]

How come our conspiracy theorists never brings these tragic saga's up? Because Bill Clinton was president?

I believe you'll notice that when I bring up true information which dispels the official story, I keep politics out of it.  Clinton orchestrated the first WTC attacks and the OK City attack.

[240 is Back]

There are many problems with the official story of the bombing. Let's start with McVeigh's whereabouts on April 17.

McVeigh had been filmed by a security camera at a nearby McDonald's 24 minutes before the time stamped on the truck rental agreement, wearing clothes that did not match either of the men seen at Elliott's.
There is no plausible explanation of how he traveled the mile and a quarter from McDonald's to the rental agency, carless and alone as he claims, without getting soaked in the rain.
 

The three people interviewed agreed John Does 1 and 2 were dry. According to Stephen Jones, who has seen the interview transcripts, it took 44 days for the FBI to convince the car rental agency owner that John Doe 1 was Timothy McVeigh. And in the end they did not dare put him on the witness stand, for fear of what might happen under cross-examination.
There is also an unanswered question with regard to the truck, namely what was the Army doing with a Ryder Truck just before the Murrah blast?


From CNN Transcripts:
"...here's now what we are starting to learn about the succession, or what someone obviously hoped would be a succession of explosions. The first bomb that was in the federal building did go off ... the second explosive was found and defused. The third explosive that was found and they are working on it right now ... both the second and third explosives, if you can imagine this, were larger than the first. ... It is just incredible to think that there was that much heavy artillery that was somehow moved into the downtown Oklahoma City federal building."
"...this is the work of a sophisticated group, this is a very sophisticated device, and it has to have been done by an explosives expert."

There's more.  There are recordings and seismic data which show multiple "booms" when the official report just said one.  There are plenty of video clips on google where you can see MSNBC, CNN, and FOX announcing bombs #2 and #3 were found and removed.

[Hugo Chavez]

How come our conspiracy theorists never brings these tragic saga's up? Because Bill Clinton was president?

What are you trying to say 240 is a Clinton man I have some theories on Waco/Okcity. Not sure if I've brought them up here, what now you're interested in Conspiracy Theory all of a sudden, or just if it makes Clinton look bad?  Or is that your theory, all of these present conspiracy theories are all about being anti-bush and that's it....   

[240 is Back]

For the record- I believed from minute one that clinton was an evil human being.  The body count, the lies, the ability to selectively enforce policy, and of course, the false self-attacks that happened on his dime.

And for the record- I used to be a huge Bush fan.  My truck?  Bush sticker and shotgun rack.  My computer?  Lots of conservative online radio and bush stickers everywhere.  I had bush t-shirts.  I got people to vote for him.  I would debate dems until they cracked.  I stayed up all night during both elections to see the results.  I supported the war, I gave to charities, I wore my USA pin.  I hated bin laden.  I loved my president.

Since I've learned that 911 was a staged attack- and I've spend 4 hours a day for 6 months now studying it - I KNOW it was a staged attack - my feelings have changed.  I'm not a treehugging pussy who always hated repubs.  It took a LOT to convince me.  Now that I know, I don't have a party.  Bush killed 3000 people to get us into war.  It's as simple as that.  If you don't believe that, you haven't researched it.  Spend a few weeks reading and the truth will come to you. 

So I'm not pro-clinton or pro-bush.   I have no party.

[24KT]

For the record- I believed from minute one that clinton was an evil human being.  The body count, the lies, the ability to selectively enforce policy, and of course, the false self-attacks that happened on his dime.

And for the record- I used to be a huge Bush fan.  My truck?  Bush sticker and shotgun rack.  My computer?  Lots of conservative online radio and bush stickers everywhere.  I had bush t-shirts.  I got people to vote for him.  I would debate dems until they cracked.  I stayed up all night during both elections to see the results.  I supported the war, I gave to charities, I wore my USA pin.  I hated bin laden.  I loved my president.

Since I've learned that 911 was a staged attack- and I've spend 4 hours a day for 6 months now studying it - I KNOW it was a staged attack - my feelings have changed.  I'm not a treehugging pussy who always hated repubs.  It took a LOT to convince me.  Now that I know, I don't have a party.  Bush killed 3000 people to get us into war.  It's as simple as that.  If you don't believe that, you haven't researched it.  Spend a few weeks reading and the truth will come to you. 

So I'm not pro-clinton or pro-bush.   I have no party.

If you hated Bill, ...you don't even want to experience the emotions Hilary could inspire.

I don't have all the facts lined up at the moment, ...however, the common consensus from those more in the know than I, (as relayed to me back in 1991 before Bill even became president) is that Hilary is extraordinarily high up in the chain-of-command. Far more powerful than Bill ever was, and that the path was being paved for her to eventually become President.

To give a really, really, really simple analogy. You don't get to be President in the US unless you're a secret member of the boy scouts. Well, Bill was the charismatic cub scout with 2 merit badges, (while Queen Elizabeth has 50 badges), ...but Hilary is the scout with 3,457 merit badges, ...but she was a chick, and the country wasn't yet ready for that. Notwithstanding imo, she'd be preferable to any member of PNAC or their protogees. I think those guys are absolutely, utterly, deranged madmen.

[240 is Back]

I think perhaps McCain is the LEAST evil of all the major candidates.

Gore was in on everything with Clinton.
Clinton was in on everythng with Clinton.
Kerry and Bush are practically brothers.  Research it.

On the repub side...
Condi was the #3 man on 9/11 and personally called mayor Willi Broen of San Fran and told him not to fly on 9/11.
Rudy sold the 911 crime scene to China 3 hours after the first plane hit and shipped it overseas with zero invesitgation

I don't know what McCain has done yet.

[Eyeball Chambers]

Seems like even little kids would know how important securing the crime scene is. 



They do it for a Mini Mart but not the World Trade Center???

[24KT]

I think perhaps McCain is the LEAST evil of all the major candidates.

Gore was in on everything with Clinton.
Clinton was in on everythng with Clinton.

Well, I'm not sure Clinton was in on everything with Clinton.
clearly there were some thiings she didn't know  

Kerry and Bush are practically brothers.  Research it.

On the repub side...
Condi was the #3 man on 9/11 and personally called mayor Willi Broen of San Fran and told him not to fly on 9/11.
Rudy sold the 911 crime scene to China 3 hours after the first plane hit and shipped it overseas with zero invesitgation

I don't know what McCain has done yet.

I'm personally rather leery of McCain, however that's based on my gut instincts. I think he's a nice enough guy,
strikes me as a little weak & pliable, ...but no biggie. My biggest reservation about McCain has to do with his status as a former Vietnam POW. When I couple what I know about MK-Ultra and the ability to fracture and compartmentalize the brain, ...I'm cautious of a head-of-state who has been subjected to torture. Won't go into a long explainantion, just rent "The Manchurian Candidate" to give you a rough idea

[240 is Back]

clearly there were some thiings she didn't know  

hahaha wow, you just pwned a senator.

I'm cautious of a head-of-state who has been subjected to torture. Won't go into a long explainantion, just rent "The Manchurian Candidate" to give you a rough idea

hahaha brilliant!  I remember that! I"m gonna have to rent that again. Awesome movie.  Luckily, with Bush out of office and the dems winning the house, perhaps the checks and balance system will regain some power in 2008.

[Hugo Chavez]

bleep.... bleep.... bleep... Manchurian Candidate... Bush... bleep bleep... bleep bleep... Match

[240 is Back]

...

[24KT]

hahaha wow, you just pwned a senator.

oops.

hahaha brilliant!  I remember that! I"m gonna have to rent that again. Awesome movie.  Luckily, with Bush out of office and the dems winning the house, perhaps the checks and balance system will regain some power in 2008.

It was originally done in the 60's with Frank Sinatra, ...but then Kennedy was assassinated, and the studio freaked deciding to shelve the film and not release it. The concept of a president conspired against by a secret cabal intent on ruling, who then assasinate the president using a former military man in an altered state mindcontrolled by the cabal was something no one wanted placed in the psyches of an already traumatized nation. I haven't seen the Sinatra version, ...but I did enjoy Denzel's version.

I remember being shocked out of my seat when Cathy O'Brien told me how these things occurred and how the military could use these 'mindless drones' (for want of a better word ...with no disrespect intended) as the perfect mules. You fracture the mind, creating multiple personalities you can call upon at will. Trigger personality #4, give it information, then make it retreat. Then after the mind-control slave arrives where they need to be, their contact then triggers personality #4 to come forward. Personality #4 delivers their info, and retreats again. All the while the individual has neither any knowledge of what took place, nor what they even know. The handlers dirty little secrets are locked away in the recesses of a very troubled & abused mind. The last thing any of them expected was that these personalities would ever successfully merge into one or that their victims would ever begin to start having total recall as Cathy did.

[Mr. Intenseone]

I believe you'll notice that when I bring up true information which dispels the official story, I keep politics out of it.  Clinton orchestrated the first WTC attacks and the OK City attack.

Clinton conspired and murdered people to keep quite and if his wife ever became pres she'd probably "off" him too, but I don't think the was behind WTC and Oklahoma!

[24KT]

Clinton conspired and murdered people to keep quite and if his wife ever became pres she'd probably "off" him too, but I don't think the was behind WTC and Oklahoma!

He's too much of an asset for her to consider that.

[Al-Gebra]

If you hated Bill, ...you don't even want to experience the emotions Hilary could inspire.

I don't have all the facts lined up at the moment, ...however, the common consensus from those more in the know than I, (as relayed to me back in 1991 before Bill even became president) is that Hilary is extraordinarily high up in the chain-of-command. Far more powerful than Bill ever was, and that the path was being paved for her to eventually become President.

To give a really, really, really simple analogy. You don't get to be President in the US unless you're a secret member of the boy scouts. Well, Bill was the charismatic cub scout with 2 merit badges, (while Queen Elizabeth has 50 badges), ...but Hilary is the scout with 3,457 merit badges, ...but she was a chick, and the country wasn't yet ready for that. Notwithstanding imo, she'd be preferable to any member of PNAC or their protogees. I think those guys are absolutely, utterly, deranged madmen.

Pot, meet grandma Kettle.

[bmacsys]

What are you trying to say 240 is a Clinton man I have some theories on Waco/Okcity. Not sure if I've brought them up here, what now you're interested in Conspiracy Theory all of a sudden, or just if it makes Clinton look bad?  Or is that your theory, all of these present conspiracy theories are all about being anti-bush and that's it....   

No, I just thought that lots of people died for no reason. That whole compound of people in Waco died for nothing. Kids, woman. I don't know if it was Janet Reno, Clinton or just a bunch of out for revenge federal agents. They could and should have just waited them out. As far as Ruby Ridge- a sniper shooting and killing a mother holding an infant is sick. All because the guy sold a sawed off shotgun. I would be outraged even if Bush, Reagan, JFK. Or any president.

[Hedgehog]

For the record- I believed from minute one that clinton was an evil human being.  The body count, the lies, the ability to selectively enforce policy, and of course, the false self-attacks that happened on his dime.

And for the record- I used to be a huge Bush fan.  My truck?  Bush sticker and shotgun rack.  My computer?  Lots of conservative online radio and bush stickers everywhere.  I had bush t-shirts.  I got people to vote for him.  I would debate dems until they cracked.  I stayed up all night during both elections to see the results.  I supported the war, I gave to charities, I wore my USA pin.  I hated bin laden.  I loved my president.

Since I've learned that 911 was a staged attack- and I've spend 4 hours a day for 6 months now studying it - I KNOW it was a staged attack - my feelings have changed.  I'm not a treehugging pussy who always hated repubs.  It took a LOT to convince me.  Now that I know, I don't have a party.  Bush killed 3000 people to get us into war.  It's as simple as that.  If you don't believe that, you haven't researched it.  Spend a few weeks reading and the truth will come to you. 

So I'm not pro-clinton or pro-bush.   I have no party.

Evil human being? USA had a better record with Clinton than any other president post-World War II.

Clinton is largely responsible for the problems with Israel-Palestine, as he was key in making Palestine's getting a really shitty bargain, only a few percent of the land mass, when they actually outnumbers the Israelis in population (did you know this?).

But, you claimed to not care for other countries. So Clinton's domestic record would be the most important for you. He's responsible for improving the economy and left a budget surplus.

You seem to have some idea that Democrats are some kind of soft ass weaklings, and that Republicans are the tough John Wayne guys.

Why would you vote for anything but the issues?

Which candidate has the best platform? Or perhaps, the least worst ( ).

That person is the one who should get the vote IMO. Be it Republican or Democrat.

YIP
Zack

[240 is Back]

I am a conservative on most issues.  But when I know that the repubc candidate (Condi or Rudy for example)did things which illustrate foreknowledge of 911, I can't vote for them.

Condi called mayor Willie Brown on Sept 10 and told him "DO NOT FLY TOMORROW'.  He told his local paper "Wow, I got lucky!"  Then, when hordes of reporters asked him and Condi about it later, neither would comment.

Little things like that, some people will just dismiss as "that doesn't prove anything!".  No, but it sure needs looked into deeper. 

[Hugo Chavez]

No, I just thought that lots of people died for no reason. That whole compound of people in Waco died for nothing. Kids, woman. I don't know if it was Janet Reno, Clinton or just a bunch of out for revenge federal agents. They could and should have just waited them out. As far as Ruby Ridge- a sniper shooting and killing a mother holding an infant is sick. All because the guy sold a sawed off shotgun. I would be outraged even if Bush, Reagan, JFK. Or any president.

I just watched Waco: The Rules of Engagement on the documentary channel. If you haven't watched this documentary, watch it.. You won't regret it, it's very good and answers all questions...  Those people were murdered by the ATF/FBI.  The part that gets me in the documentary is infrared film of the fire and two agents firing into the only way out as the fire burned through the building.  There is also another documentary that shows well the information corruption between the agency and Reno.  Clinton would have been in contact with Reno so a corrupted information would have been involved at their level.  Plus it shouldn't be forgotten that Clinton just starting his presidency.  I doubt Clinton in the first month of his presidency would have been able to get this all going with the ATF.  No, this was a murderous greedy agency that needed a big score to justify funding needs.  It's all proven very well in the documentary.  They also show the agents setting the fire on infrared film.  There are some fucked up Democrat bastards in the hearings.  Some that should never be forgiven for the BULLSHIT they spewed... BIDEN and especially Schumer being the biggest full of shit idiots.  Many lies and a massive cover-up is proven in this doc.. A must see.

[24KT]

The footage that was finally released showed the ATF fired first. Those guys were incinerated.
The takedown was forced rather than waiting them out because the federal warrants would have expired if they had not been acted on that day. Some real shady characters turned up that day, ...who also turned up at other incidents.

[bmacsys]

I just watched Waco: The Rules of Engagement on the documentary channel.

I wish I had that channel. Koresh was a nut but he didn't kill a compound full of people. Government agents did. A sad and shameful day for law enforcement.

[Dos Equis]

From what I recall, Koresh set fires inside the compound and a number of them either shot themselves and/or each other. 

The real criminal was David Koresh.  Even if you assume the government should have waited them out, there is no question he was a pedophile.  I don't fault the government at all for going after that creep. 

[240 is Back]

From what I recall, Koresh set fires inside the compound and a number of them either shot themselves and/or each other. 

The real criminal was David Koresh.  Even if you assume the government should have waited them out, there is no question he was a pedophile.  I don't fault the government at all for going after that creep. 

Would it bother you if you saw proof that the govt fired on those fleeing, and that the fbi shot incindiary devices at the building?

[240 is Back]

From what I recall, Koresh set fires inside the compound and a number of them either shot themselves and/or each other. 

The thing is, "from what you recall" means what you saw on the news and were told by an FBI spokesman.  There are people who have studied the film and reports of the day and have come to far sadder conclusions.

Also, very strange that  the FBI would bulldoze and BURY the crime scene instead of spending time analyzing it.  They just wanted that situation to go away.  Kinda like on 911 - no nee dto analyze the crime scene.  Just ship that steel to china and forget about it.