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Author Topic: More INFO for Beginners.  (Read 10899 times)
pobrecito
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« Reply #25 on: September 07, 2006, 09:40:00 PM »

Adonis has several valid points.

The problem with his posts are he thinks he is standard aka the genetic elite. When the reality, this is not the case. So saying a natural can only gain 3lbs a year of muscle is laughable....just becuase you can't build anymore than 3lbs/year TA doesn't mean no one else can Wink
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AVBG
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« Reply #26 on: September 07, 2006, 09:41:22 PM »

Adonis has several valid points.

The problem with his posts are he thinks he is standard aka the genetic elite. When the reality, this is not the case. So saying a natural can only gain 3lbs a year of muscle is laughable....just becuase you can't build anymore than 3lbs/year TA doesn't mean no one else can Wink

Spot on. My point exactly.
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The True Adonis
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« Reply #27 on: September 07, 2006, 09:43:16 PM »

You don`t know what I build in a year,because I never have said such.

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pobrecito
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« Reply #28 on: September 07, 2006, 09:44:15 PM »

You don`t know what I build in a year,because I never have said such.



You have average genetics. At least you work hard with what you have though.
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The True Adonis
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« Reply #29 on: September 07, 2006, 09:49:13 PM »

You have average genetics. At least you work hard with what you have though.

There is no such thing as average as the Human Population when viewed in its entirety, all have the same Protein Synthesis capability.

Remember that is when viewed on the whole.

Furthermore, there really is no such things as "Superior" natural genetics.

There is no standard for it,no reference point for "Superior" Lifetime Natural Bodybuilding Genetics.
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The True Adonis
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« Reply #30 on: September 07, 2006, 09:53:48 PM »

Adam is saying there is no "genetic elite".  Human beings all gain muscle mass at roughly the same rate (slow).  There is also no evolutionary reason why we would ever need to have as much muscle as pro bodybuilders which is why it's impossible to get that size naturally.  Processing food (protein) and response to resistance training is also all pretty well the same amongst people.  I won't say there are 0 exceptions to this, but I will say that this applies to the sweeping majority of human beings.

EDIT: damn, we almost said the same thing at the same time.  Grin

No idea why they just don`t break it down like this in the Magazines.
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pobrecito
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« Reply #31 on: September 07, 2006, 09:56:40 PM »

There is no such thing as average as the Human Population when viewed in its entirety, all have the same Protein Synthesis capability.

Remember that is when viewed on the whole.

Furthermore, there really is no such things as "Superior" natural genetics.

There is no standard for it,no reference point for "Superior" Lifetime Natural Bodybuilding Genetics.

When viewed as a whole, sure you can put everone in one general category. But, when you break it down some people have genetic characteristics that are more suitable to bodybuilding criteria than others. However, what I would call good genetics for bodybuilding is actually, evolutionarily speaking, bad genetics. The ability to stay very lean for one is considered good for bodybuilders, but is bad in an evolutionary sense. Back in the day (think caveman), they needed that fat. Things like insulin sensitivity and fat distrobution vary widely in the human population and these can either suit bodybuilders or not. That being said, you are right, many of us are lumped in the same category, we are all relatively similar genetically. However, there are those few that are genetically superior.

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pobrecito
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« Reply #32 on: September 07, 2006, 09:59:07 PM »

ah, forgot to add....shape! That's a huge genetic trait that varies greatly!
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myseone
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« Reply #33 on: September 07, 2006, 09:59:20 PM »

I don't know if this info hurts or helps beginning bodybuilders.

On one hand a goal of 5' 11" or so at 200lbs is qiuet good naturally, in fact excellent. A gentically gifted man could achieve this without supps, and drugs, it would take sound training, good diet, and enough rest. Basic stuff.

On the other hand, even though rare there are people who exceed this without drugs. Not many at 5'11", but I train an indivdual who weighs about 225-227lbs and he's probably around 9%.

At a height of just under 5'11" I have achieved a build of 210lbs, single digit body fat, without drugs (I have been clean for about 10 years, with drugs up to 230lbs single digits). My body weight now fluctuates between 200 and 210, and still single digits are held.

Once the drugs are out of the system the bodies natural levels of GH, Test, etc. go back to normal if excessive amounts of drugs were not used. So yes it is possible for a person to do it without drugs, rare,but possible.

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pobrecito
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« Reply #34 on: September 07, 2006, 10:01:32 PM »

Once you do sift through all the garbage I do feel TA has a few valid points:

1) becoming delusional thinking you are gaining muscle when it's just fat. We have ALL fallen into this trap, myself included
2) You don't need supplements, just simple food

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AVBG
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« Reply #35 on: September 07, 2006, 10:01:37 PM »

When viewed as a whole, sure you can put everone in one general category. But, when you break it down some people have genetic characteristics that are more suitable to bodybuilding criteria than others. However, what I would call good genetics for bodybuilding is actually, evolutionarily speaking, bad genetics. The ability to stay very lean for one is considered good for bodybuilders, but is bad in an evolutionary sense. Back in the day (think caveman), they needed that fat. Things like insulin sensitivity and fat distrobution vary widely in the human population and these can either suit bodybuilders or not. That being said, you are right, many of us are lumped in the same category, we are all relatively similar genetically. However, there are those few that are genetically superior.



And why is that so hard to accept??
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myseone
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« Reply #36 on: September 07, 2006, 10:14:52 PM »

When viewed as a whole, sure you can put everone in one general category. But, when you break it down some people have genetic characteristics that are more suitable to bodybuilding criteria than others. However, what I would call good genetics for bodybuilding is actually, evolutionarily speaking, bad genetics. The ability to stay very lean for one is considered good for bodybuilders, but is bad in an evolutionary sense. Back in the day (think caveman), they needed that fat. Things like insulin sensitivity and fat distrobution vary widely in the human population and these can either suit bodybuilders or not. That being said, you are right, many of us are lumped in the same category, we are all relatively similar genetically. However, there are those few that are genetically superior.



Good point, but what exists as a strength in a certain environment can be a big handicap in another. In terms of genetics for bodybuilding with or without drugs, what helps is

1) Small hip to shoulder ratio
2) small to medium sized joints
3)long muscle bellies
4) ability to burn fat easily (in naturals)
5) Sturdy bones, tendons, etc.
6) Neuromuscular effiency
7) Good to great recovery ability


Other important factors (more so with drug free trainees, but also important for competitive drug users)
Cool Discipline
9) high pain tolerance
10) intelligence (ability to learn, adapt training methods to circumstances, etc.. Not seen in all bodybuilders for sure)
11) passion



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yangmian
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« Reply #37 on: September 07, 2006, 10:22:51 PM »

ISNT CROATCH UNDER 511 AND OVER 200
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Bast000
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« Reply #38 on: September 07, 2006, 10:31:53 PM »

ISNT CROATCH UNDER 511 AND OVER 200

not in contest shape, genius.
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myseone
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« Reply #39 on: September 07, 2006, 10:36:14 PM »

I did the musclemania Superbody in 2005. Weighed in at 205lbs at just under 5'11". I also did an natural NPC show a few years back at the same weight.
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sean
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« Reply #40 on: September 07, 2006, 10:37:11 PM »

Ok. Show me 5 Lifetime Naturals that meet this criteria?

Show me one.
Can you?

Here ya go assbag.
http://www.bodybuilders.com/nrogers.htm
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Bast000
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« Reply #41 on: September 07, 2006, 10:38:32 PM »

don't you think that taking steroids in the past and getting bigger has helped you get to that weight later on without drugs myseone?

Your muscle cells have grown and stretched before so I think it's possible that they grow easier later on even off of steroids.
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sean
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« Reply #42 on: September 07, 2006, 10:39:25 PM »

Sorry to burst everyone's bubble, but bodybuilding as we know it is just drugs.  The only true "genetics" involved are genetic response to drugs.  Meaning that Adam may not be pro size ON drugs, but they sure as hell would be his size OFF drugs.

You guys get this right?  Please get it!

If pros were off the juice, they would be Adam's size.  They would be the size of my training partner.  Actually, I would doubt many of them would have 17" calves in good condition naturally.

Everyone here who is telling us that being huge consists of some incredible "work ethic" or "genetics" or whatever are insulting not only our work ethic and genetics, but also our intelligence.

Look at Tom Prince - weighing all of 180 pounds today.  But Tom did say that the last thing which makes a pro a pro is his gear cycles.  Roll Eyes

Tom also said his cycles were "extremely basic."  Yeah - 18 IUs of GH and one gram of test per day.  I guess it is pretty short and to the point.  Roll Eyes

and you plan to remove your tounge from adams ass when?
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myseone
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« Reply #43 on: September 07, 2006, 10:41:09 PM »

Despite lying about my height here goes another

http://www.bodybuilders.com/hosannah.htm
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sean
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« Reply #44 on: September 07, 2006, 10:41:21 PM »

Did you guys see the pictures of Dillett that just came out?  He is all of 230 at 6'1 and fat.  ahh, the power of gear memory.
post please
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The True Adonis
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« Reply #45 on: September 07, 2006, 10:44:17 PM »


Failed the Criteria. He is over 5`11.

Plus he could be leaner.
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Wombat
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« Reply #46 on: September 07, 2006, 10:44:39 PM »

Good point, but what exists as a strength in a certain environment can be a big handicap in another. In terms of genetics for bodybuilding with or without drugs, what helps is

1) Small hip to shoulder ratio
2) small to medium sized joints
3)long muscle bellies
4) ability to burn fat easily (in naturals)
5) Sturdy bones, tendons, etc.
6) Neuromuscular effiency
7) Good to great recovery ability


Other important factors (more so with drug free trainees, but also important for competitive drug users)
Cool Discipline
9) high pain tolerance
10) intelligence (ability to learn, adapt training methods to circumstances, etc.. Not seen in all bodybuilders for sure)
11) passion





good points and also natural test level and natural gh levels along with inslin sensitivity...
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ManBearPig...
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« Reply #47 on: September 07, 2006, 10:48:38 PM »


he/s 6'2" dickbreath
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myseone
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« Reply #48 on: September 07, 2006, 10:49:48 PM »

don't you think that taking steroids in the past and getting bigger has helped you get to that weight later on without drugs myseone?

Your muscle cells have grown and stretched before so I think it's possible that they grow easier later on even off of steroids.


Interesting point, but no not really. Muscle cells don't stretch they get thicker with training. After you stop using drugs you are actually at a disadvantage because hormonal levels are way off, high cortisol low test profile (llok at former steriod users that stop, Mike Morris comes to mind. It took me about a year to begin growing again and I did'nt use that much (fact).

After the year I built up to around 205lbs defintely single digits body fat, and was able to get bigger than that at single digits drug free. Not to mention that i have not used in years (10 aprox.)

Not to mention that i incured a quadricep tendon rupture while I was training naturally (heavy lunges which put me out of training hardcore for close to a year. Add in the 9 month depression in which I did'nt train.

So no, the drugs and there effects are way gone. It's possible for some men to get that big naturally.
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ManBearPig...
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« Reply #49 on: September 07, 2006, 10:50:21 PM »

Despite lying about my height here goes another

http://www.bodybuilders.com/hosannah.htm

props man, great physique.
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