Tonight's MSNBC Poll: Was the US Govt involved in 911?

[Brian Peppers]

I would like to see CNN & Fox news polls of the same topic.  I didn't expect the numbers to be this high, honestly.  54% say yes, the US Govt was involved in the attacks.

It's an incredible phenomenon happening before our eyes.  Over half of a population of a country outwardly stating they believe the government was somehow involved.  Staggering numbers. 

[Brian Peppers]

9/11 conspiracy theorists multiply

He wondered why 110-story towers crashed and military jets failed to intercept even one airliner. He read the 9/11 Commission report with a swell of anger. Contradictions were ignored and no military or civilian official was reprimanded, much less cashiered.

"To me, the report read as a cartoon." White-haired and courtly, Griffin sits on a couch in a hotel lobby in Manhattan, unspooling words in that reasonable Presbyterian minister's voice. "It's a much greater stretch to accept the official conspiracy story than to consider the alternatives."
NEW YORK - He felt no shiver of doubt in those first terrible hours.

He watched the attacks on the World Trade Center and the Pentagon and assumed al-Qaeda had wreaked terrible vengeance. He listened to anchors and military experts and assumed the facts of Sept. 11, 2001, were as stated on the screen.

It was a year before David Ray Griffin, an eminent liberal theologian and philosopher, began his stroll down the path of disbelief. He wondered why Bush listened to a child's story while the nation was attacked and how Osama bin Laden, America's Public Enemy No. 1, escaped in the mountains of Tora Bora.

Such as?

"There was massive complicity in this attack by U.S. government operatives."

If that feels like a skip off the cliff of established reality, more Americans are in free fall than you might guess. There are few more startling measures of American distrust of leaders than the widespread belief that the Bush administration had a hand in the attacks of Sept. 11 in order to spark an invasion of Afghanistan and Iraq.

A recent Scripps Howard/Ohio University poll of 1,010 Americans found that 36 percent suspect the U.S. government promoted the attacks or intentionally sat on its hands. Sixteen percent believe explosives brought down the towers. Twelve percent believe a cruise missile hit the Pentagon.

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/14723997/

[240 is Back]

the truth is coming out.  period. 

[240 is Back]

It's hard to deny things you see and hear with your own senses:

WHAT DO YOU THINK HE MEANT?

EVEN A MORON ANCHOR CAN SEE:

FIREMEN THINK SO TOO

BOOM BOOM BOOM:

WATCH THE SHAKE:

M.I.T. ENGINEER:

PHYSICS PROFESSOR:

THE REAL CULPRIT:

YELLOW SMOKE FROM LOWER BLAST:

WHAT IS THAT FIRST EXPLOSION?

SMOKE FROM BELOW?

THERMITE? WTF?

[astro]

WHAT IS THAT FIRST EXPLOSION?

wow, what an amazing clip! you can actually see the large explosion fires as the building falls

[Hulkster]

OK, If you remember all the jet fuel that was on board those planes, alot of it traveled dow the evevato shafts into the basement. Fire science has proven that the presence of a flamable liquid can lead to and explosive atmosphere in a fires atmosphere. Second, the smoke and dust is from the collapse of the first tower. I was an eyewitness and there was no missile, no explosives, no conspiracy. have some respect for the families of the 2,973 people who died that day.

interesting.

[240 is Back]

"OK, If you remember all the jet fuel that was on board those planes, alot of it traveled dow the evevato shafts into the basement. Fire science has proven that the presence of a flamable liquid can lead to and explosive atmosphere in a fires atmosphere. Second, the smoke and dust is from the collapse of the first tower. I was an eyewitness and there was no missile, no explosives, no conspiracy. have some respect for the families of the 2,973 people who died that day. "

Read the blueprints to the building - the elevator shafts were hermetically sealed to prevent any explosion or fuel from leaving a localized area.  Plus the notion that "jet fuel would travel 1100 feet down sealed elevator shafts" ignores the fact that the fuel was immmediately ignited upon impact.  There wasn't liquid running anywhere.  That shit was on fire, and very localized.  There were firefighters, filling the floor two stories BELOW the fire on the South Tower, and there were no fires there.  So the shit happening below (and in the basement!)  either chose to magically skip floors, or it came form another source.

NO - the smoke and dust is NOT from the collapse of the first tower.  Look at the pic - both towers are freshly hit and you have a 30-story plume of new smoke coming from the basement.  The upper fires are blowing AWAY from the towers, to the north.  This is NEW SMOKE rising from the basements, matching both seismic data and witness reports that secondary bombs were in the basement.  Do your reaserch!

[Hulkster]

"OK, If you remember all the jet fuel that was on board those planes, alot of it traveled dow the evevato shafts into the basement. Fire science has proven that the presence of a flamable liquid can lead to and explosive atmosphere in a fires atmosphere. Second, the smoke and dust is from the collapse of the first tower. I was an eyewitness and there was no missile, no explosives, no conspiracy. have some respect for the families of the 2,973 people who died that day. "

Read the blueprints to the building - the elevator shafts were hermetically sealed to prevent any explosion or fuel from leaving a localized area.  Plus the notion that "jet fuel would travel 1100 feet down sealed elevator shafts" ignores the fact that the fuel was immmediately ignited upon impact.  There wasn't liquid running anywhere.  That shit was on fire, and very localized.  There were firefighters, filling the floor two stories BELOW the fire on the South Tower, and there were no fires there.  So the shit happening below (and in the basement!)  either chose to magically skip floors, or it came form another source.

NO - the smoke and dust is NOT from the collapse of the first tower.  Look at the pic - both towers are freshly hit and you have a 30-story plume of new smoke coming from the basement.  The upper fires are blowing AWAY from the towers, to the north.  This is NEW SMOKE rising from the basements, matching both seismic data and witness reports that secondary bombs were in the basement.  Do your reaserch!

http://www.911myths.com/html/seismic_record.html
note that you have used the very charts that are expanded in this article..

http://www.911myths.com/html/freefall.html
more debunking

http://www.911myths.com/html/wtc_demolition_links.html

excellent.

his is NEW SMOKE rising from the basements, matching both seismic data and witness reports that secondary bombs were in the basement.  Do your reaserch!

maybe you should look a little more closely at yours!

In all seriousness, I suspect that the US probably had some prior knowledge of the impending attacks,

but this whole 'bombs in the basement" stuff is just a little hard to swallow...especially with many debunking pages showing the errors and misinformation in the bomb theory itself.

[240 is Back]

http://www.911myths.com/html/seismic_record.html
note that you have used the very charts that are expanded in this article..

http://www.911myths.com/html/freefall.html
more debunking

http://www.911myths.com/html/wtc_demolition_links.html

maybe you should look a little more closely at yours!

In all seriousness, I suspect that the US probably had some prior knowledge of the impending attacks,

but this whole 'bombs in the basement" stuff is just a little hard to swallow...especially with many debunking pages showing the errors and misinformation in the bomb theory itself.

Choose a point and I'll be happy to debate it.  Bombs in the basement?  here is my case:

1) William Rodriguez - A 19-year janitor at WTC.  8:45 AM - he was in the basement when he heard a massive explosion.  He ran to the source and saw a man with skin hanging who had been severly burned yelling "The elevators!"  he also saw a large piece of machinery destroyed.  A few seconds later, he heard a massive explosion as the first plane hit the first tower.

2) Smoke rising from the base after being recorded from independent cameras across the bay (google video for blue media 911 for the full video, very cool clip!).  Smoke can be seen in the CNN screen shot i'll attach.

3) Seismic data- There were massive seismic blasts recorded 14 to 17 seconds BEFORE the planes hit.  Likewise, monster explosions ten seconds before the collapses started were measured by seismic research centers. Science types call this the smoking gun.

4) There were large pools of molten metal, 50 to 70 feet deep, under the destroyed towers, for 5 to 6 weeks after 9/11.  Measured from space with infared lenses.  Conventional fires, fueled by office furniture, steel, and jet fuel do not burn for 5 to 6 weeks.  However explosives could cause this to occur. 

[Hulkster]

Conventional fires, fueled by office furniture, steel, and jet fuel do not burn for 5 to 6 weeks.

240, has it occured to you that 50,000 gallons of jet fuel + (2x110 storeys worth of buildings) is ANYTHING but a "conventional fire"??

You need to step back and look at some of what you are posting!

[240 is Back]

In all seriousness, I suspect that the US probably had some prior knowledge of the impending attacks,

We are in agreement here.

Many investors knew.  They sold stock or bought put options, bet that Morgan Stanley (23 floors on WTC) and the 2 airlines would drop.  Seven foreign govts even bought short cause they knew which stocks would fall.   And get this - when the one guy in the US who bought millions of $ in put options on American Airlines- something like 6000 times normal put options, they caught him.  They never did anything- why?  Cause he was a business partner of the #3 man at the CIA and, LOL, they said "he had no conceiveable ties to Al Quida".  How silly is that?  

Many govts knew.  Mossad and MI6, Germany, and even the Taliban are on record as telling the CIA or Bush outright that 9/10 or 9/11, there would be a massive attack.  Bush said "we had no warning" and these govts have not repeated it, but will not retract their statements.

Some newspapers knew.  Editors of a London paper knew about it from the Taliban, after the US refused to listen to their warnings.  

Israel company 'Zim Navagation Inc' knew.  They closed up shop (2 floors of the WTC) and moved down the block to a new building, losing $50,000 for breaking their lease.  And they did this a week before 9/11 without explanation.  

Odigo- an ISR instant messaging firm knew.  They send out text messages telling people to get out, right before.

Interestingly, and I just learned this today - this is incredible.  When the NY Times did their death list analysis, they learned that only THREE Jewish people died that day.  Out of 3000.  In buildings full of insurance and banking firms.  how strange is that?  One of the dead was a visiting salesman, the other 2 were on the planes.  

Thousands of jewish people called in to work, didn't show up, or took a sick day on 9/11.  is this a coincidence?

[240 is Back]

240, has it occured to you that 50,000 gallons of jet fuel + (2x110 storeys worth of buildings) is ANYTHING but a "conventional fire"??

You need to step back and look at some of what you are posting!

I'm happy to discuss this.  Even the 911 Commission admits that much of the jet fuel burned up outside of the building, and that the fuel had burned up in a few minutes.  The fires that remained were just the things already inside the building, burning up (furniture, paper, desks, etc).

On the South tower, hit second and felled first- a majority of the fuel was destroyed outside of the bulding (hence the amazing foreball for the world to see.  Firefighters were two floors below the 2 remaining pockets of fire, and they were fine.  No raging inferno.  Witnesses were at the gash (reported to be 2000 degrees at the time) waving for help.

The bottom 75+ floors of each tower should have retained their structural integrity.  Four minutes after being hit, the building had completed its oscillation (allowed movement due to hurricane or plane hit) and it had regained its structural strength.  That building should still be there. 

Something removed the spine of that building.  Something caused the 47 support columns and 110 stories of concrete and steel to convert itself to powder in 9.2 seconds.

It was not a progressive collapse, so it wasn't the falling debris.  It was explosives.

[Hulkster]

nterestingly, and I just learned this today - this is incredible.  When the NY Times did their death list analysis, they learned that only THREE Jewish people died that day.  Out of 3000.  In buildings full of insurance and banking firms.  how strange is that?  One of the dead was a visiting salesman, the other 2 were on the planes. 

Thousands of jewish people called in to work, didn't show up, or took a sick day on 9/11.  is this a coincidence?

no, because thousands and thousands of people had not yet even arrived at the towers yet.

they were on their way to work.

yes, it is unusual that so few of the people who were actually there were not jewish, but I am not so sure it means anything.

Stuff like this can happen just by shear probability alone.

[JOHN MATRIX]

the whole WTC7 thing is a huge gaping hole, a tremendous red flag that HAS NOT been officially explained imo...thats the thing im hung up on

[240 is Back]

no, because thousands and thousands of people had not yet even arrived at the towers yet.  they were on their way to work.  yes, it is unusual that so few of the people who were actually there were not jewish, but I am not so sure it means anything.
Stuff like this can happen just by shear probability alone.

Actually the probabilities are VERY low that ZERO Jewish people would be at the building as scheduled.   Especially in banking/insurance, fields which are very heavily populated jewish fields.  The one who was, was a salesman who just showed up, and two on the planes, well, lots of holes in the plane stories...

Even odder is the spying connection - 150 Israeli agents who had been following the hijacker crew were arrested in Sept 01 and held til summer 02.  The majority of them actually lived in Venice & hollywood, FL - the small towns where the hijackers lived.  Lots of quiet stuff there.  But very obvious that ISR knew a lot.

[240 is Back]

the whole WTC7 thing is a huge gaping hole, a tremendous red flag that HAS NOT been officially explained imo...thats the thing im hung up on

If WTC was brought down by controlled demo, then the whole day was an inside job.  This must be understood.  The building housed FBI, SEC, SecSrvc, Mayor Rudy, and others.  NO WAY can you wire a govt building with bombs BEFORE 911 without their permission. 

The building certainly culd not have been wired that day.  There were small fires and the cameras of a nation on that block.  Wiring a building takes weeks with a standard crew, and days with a very good focused group.  And you don't carry explosives into a building that is on fire to demolish it.

Silverstein collected nearly $500M fire insurance on WTC7 - so he is very guilty of fraud if he "pulled it". 

Was WTC7 brought down by controlled demolition?  Anyone?

[240 is Back]

Here is a view of the WTC 7 collapse I bet you haven't seen -

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=8403741864603265979&q=wtc+7+new&hl=en

A rear view in which you see a completely intact building (minimal damage was up front) going from 47 stories of solid to 20-30 feet of rubble and dust in 6.4 seconds.

Is this normal?  Small fires cause steel to vaporize?  Small fires cause concrete to turn to powder?

The building core- a complex zig zag pattern designed for strength was obliderated, and the permieter walls were shredded.  From fire. Um...

Nearly all the concrete from the building was pulverized - IN THE AIR!  It was dust before it ever hit the ground.  Vaporized in midair.  Every see anything do that withour help from explosives?

[Parker]

240, you had said you beleived that an outside conglomerate had probably financed the distruction. Do you beleive that the US is too decadent, has grow weak, and just like Rome, is not working towards betting itself. It seems China is progressing, while the US is falling. Like were nothing but a nation of slackers, not hard workers. You see it everwhere, Sports (the US B-ball team getting bronze), The classrooms (That is  one why I'm not teaching), in business, entertainment, music (D4L, anyone). It seems to me our whole civilization is going down the shitter.   Damn, people don't even do their lawns anymore...

 

[Bindare_Dundat]

Here is a view of the WTC 7 collapse I bet you haven't seen -

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=8403741864603265979&q=wtc+7+new&hl=en

A rear view in which you see a completely intact building (minimal damage was up front) going from 47 stories of solid to 20-30 feet of rubble and dust in 6.4 seconds.

Is this normal?  Small fires cause steel to vaporize?  Small fires cause concrete to turn to powder?

The building core- a complex zig zag pattern designed for strength was obliderated, and the permieter walls were shredded.  From fire. Um...

Nearly all the concrete from the building was pulverized - IN THE AIR!  It was dust before it ever hit the ground.  Vaporized in midair.  Every see anything do that withour help from explosives?

This is what I find so puzzling. One tower falling straight down is believable BUT 3 buildings falling straight down without damaging the surrounding structures? It just seems that something like that would be impossible to happen without planning.

[JOHN MATRIX]

the WTC7 was CERTAINLY WITHOUT A SHADOW OF A DOUBT a CONTROLLED DEMO.
and if thats the case-which it was-that has a whole world of implications. fuck.wow. some cocksuckers IN OUR NATION had to pre-wire that building. im pissed

240 YOU HAVE CONVINCED ME

[Bigger Business]

240 YOU HAVE CONVINCED ME

lol

i like your 'caps n all' energy man!

[240 is Back]

240, you had said you beleived that an outside conglomerate had probably financed the distruction. Do you beleive that the US is too decadent, has grow weak, and just like Rome, is not working towards betting itself. It seems China is progressing, while the US is falling. Like were nothing but a nation of slackers, not hard workers. You see it everwhere, Sports (the US B-ball team getting bronze), The classrooms (That is  one why I'm not teaching), in business, entertainment, music (D4L, anyone). It seems to me our whole civilization is going down the shitter.   Damn, people don't even do their lawns anymore...

Honestly?  Here is what I believe happened:

An outside group decided that there were 1 billion people they would like to better control (ie: kill).

They told the leaders of the US govt that 911 was going to happen, and called it  "Version A".  They then presented an alternative version of the day, called "Version B", in which a nuke goes off in D.C.  Our leaders had a little multiple choice testing to do, and chose the route with the minimal loss to our country.

In reality, loss of life was minimized.  The TOTAL of the 4 planes was 200 people - all were at 20% capacity.  (and, if reports are true, 200 people were evacuated from a plane called flight 93 at Cleveland hopkins int'l airport at 10:50 Am that morning).  Every Jewish person who worked in the buildings decided to take 9/11 off work that day.  They told the firefighters with 15 minutes warning to evacuate, because the buildings were coming down.

It was a terrible day.  It saved the U.S. economy and prevented a larger attack.  It brought us into 2 wars and possibly 3.  It caused 200 people to choose to jump from the towers. 

Keep in mind I am very much NOT anti-ANY culture.  But this week, even longtime refusers to name Israel have gone on record and said it was indeed Israel behind it.  Nobody wants that terrible anti-Semite tag (ask Mel Gibson!)  But they pulled every man from the WTC, and they got the US to take on 2 of their enemies in the region...