Author Topic: The torture has got to stop.........  (Read 4305 times)


ieffinhatecardio

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Re: The torture has got to stop.........
« Reply #1 on: September 18, 2006, 02:26:23 PM »
Whackjob right wing zealot, is that Rush Limbaugh in your avatar?

Mr. Intenseone

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Re: The torture has got to stop.........
« Reply #2 on: September 18, 2006, 02:28:35 PM »
Whackjob right wing zealot, is that Rush Limbaugh in your avatar?

 8)..



Hedgehog

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Re: The torture has got to stop.........
« Reply #3 on: September 18, 2006, 02:36:21 PM »
The problem is, that these prisoners are being held without trial dates or accusations.

There is one question we need to have an answer for:

Why not charge them and get them to a trial? Make it confidential or whatever, but just get it over with.

The list of how good these people have it, despite being held capture, reads like a list of bad excuses for not being able to come up with good enough charges.

Several of these prisoners have been held for a long while, and then later released. Prisoners who weren't charged with anything, or never saw any trial.

Without any reimbursements whatsoever.

Either they were guilty, and should be punished, or they are not guilty, and should be released. But they cannot just be held for years. Without decisions. And then, one day released, without explanations, or reimbursements.

YIP
Zack
As empty as paradise

ieffinhatecardio

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Re: The torture has got to stop.........
« Reply #4 on: September 18, 2006, 02:36:46 PM »
I thought I read someone post that you were Mexican.

Are you Mexican? Do you have any hispanic blood in your heritage?

dan18

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Re: The torture has got to stop.........
« Reply #5 on: September 18, 2006, 02:40:02 PM »
http://www.nypost.com/postopinion/opedcolumnists/a_deadly_kindness_opedcolumnists_richard_miniter.htm
oh no we don't let them sleep good golly..fuck that come to NY and when you see the  hole in the ground that used to be the twin towers and you see all the faces and names of those who were killed for no good reason then complain about torture..
were not ripping off there nails and playing Russian roulette with them so fuck em..
p

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Re: The torture has got to stop.........
« Reply #6 on: September 18, 2006, 02:55:41 PM »
A guy gets held for 5 years.  What useful intel could he give you after 5 years?  Whatever Afghan bases or attack plans or allies, well, after 5 years of torture, he probably has said everything there is to say. And info becomes obsolete during war.

Problem for the white house is, there are a lot of world lawyers just salivating to defend these guys in a trial.  Why?  Cause they want to show there is little evidence against these guys, and they want to show the effects of 5 years of torture.   Sure they're terrorists, cause that's what our govt tells us.  That convneient classification of 'enemy combatant' means we never have to release them.

This puzzles me.  We considered the Taliban a legit govt in 1998 when we used them to locate and fire missiles at OBL.  They wanted him dead too.  In spring 2001, we considered them legitimate as we tried to pay them for rights to an oil pipeline thru afghanistan.

However, when war started, we decided to reclassify them, as a "terror group" and not a legit govt.
  This way, we don't have to release their POWS, we don't have to provide proof of anything.  We just kill them, and the geneva convention doesn't apply.


The Showstoppa

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Re: The torture has got to stop.........
« Reply #7 on: September 18, 2006, 03:07:15 PM »
A guy gets held for 5 years.  What useful intel could he give you after 5 years?  Whatever Afghan bases or attack plans or allies, well, after 5 years of torture, he probably has said everything there is to say. And info becomes obsolete during war.


But see the problem is/was we couldn't "extract" it properly.  With the new bill, we can just get it without trying to wait it out.  8)

Mr. Intenseone

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Re: The torture has got to stop.........
« Reply #8 on: September 18, 2006, 03:57:38 PM »
I thought I read someone post that you were Mexican.

Are you Mexican? Do you have any hispanic blood in your heritage?

No, I'm not Mexican...far from it. But my housekeeper is :P!

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Re: The torture has got to stop.........
« Reply #9 on: September 18, 2006, 04:01:34 PM »
But see the problem is/was we couldn't "extract" it properly.  With the new bill, we can just get it without trying to wait it out.  8)

Actually, we HAVE been employing torture techniques.  It was the media catching wind of the CIA guys trying to purchase personal insurance - to cover their asses when it came out that they were told to introduce car batteries to some arab genitals - that Bush suddenly stepped fwd with the bill to legalize and argument to legitimize.



My own opinion is that torturing prisoners is a scary thing.   not only will they slice our guys to shreds when they catch them, but the line will get blurry...

For instance, jose Padilla, the American captured in Chicago who has been held for 55 months without a lawyer because he is alleged to be a terrorist - this bill would allow for his torture.  Why does that matter?  Um, a US citizen, denied legal counsel, tortured indefinitely because of evidence which is sealed.  Scary.  Padilla could point his finger at anyone and say "it was Showstoppa's idea!" and guess what - Showstoppa coudl find himself being tortured, denied a lawyer, and basically locked up for life - with zero released evidence.  

ieffinhatecardio

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Re: The torture has got to stop.........
« Reply #10 on: September 18, 2006, 05:23:16 PM »
No, I'm not Mexican...far from it. But my housekeeper is :P!

Your girlfriend is a Mexican?

Hugo Chavez

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Re: The torture has got to stop.........
« Reply #11 on: September 18, 2006, 06:13:25 PM »
No, I'm not Mexican...far from it. But my housekeeper is :P!
No WAY!!! Why do you look Mexican???

shutupandtrain88

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Re: The torture has got to stop.........
« Reply #12 on: September 18, 2006, 08:33:06 PM »
where can I find the videos of our troops beheading the terrorists?  or the innocent Iraqi's/afghans?  how about all the bodies of the tortured Iraqi's/afghans that our troops dump all over the battle zones?  or how about the buses, restaurants, daycares, police stations that our troops are blowing up?  wait a sec, we haven't been doing those things have we?  it's the terrorists that are doing it and if they are tortured some when caught and it saves one life, so be it.  thank God, they haven't been hitting us on our soil, every basher would be clamoring about Bush not doing anything.  Damn I still can't understand how he has time to run the war on terror since he's been so busy blowing up levees, buildings, secret deals for his friends, and making sure all the people involved with the "conspiracies" quiet.

Purge_WTF

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Re: The torture has got to stop.........
« Reply #13 on: September 18, 2006, 08:34:06 PM »
Your girlfriend is a Mexican?

  No, his mom is.

OneBigMan

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Re: The torture has got to stop.........
« Reply #14 on: September 18, 2006, 08:40:17 PM »
8)..




I like Limbaugh because El Rush Bo is the teacher of bushocracy everyday on the E I B network.

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Re: The torture has got to stop.........
« Reply #15 on: September 18, 2006, 09:17:10 PM »
where can I find the videos of our troops beheading the terrorists?  or the innocent Iraqi's/afghans?  how about all the bodies of the tortured Iraqi's/afghans that our troops dump all over the battle zones?  or how about the buses, restaurants, daycares, police stations that our troops are blowing up?  wait a sec, we haven't been doing those things have we?  it's the terrorists that are doing it and if they are tortured some when caught and it saves one life, so be it.  thank God, they haven't been hitting us on our soil, every basher would be clamoring about Bush not doing anything.  Damn I still can't understand how he has time to run the war on terror since he's been so busy blowing up levees, buildings, secret deals for his friends, and making sure all the people involved with the "conspiracies" quiet.

See, you're letting your anger over the several wll-publicized Muslim extremist asshole cloud your judgment of the bigger picture.

You don't have facts.  You have the spoonfed information, given to you in such a way to incite you to support what is an incredible thing - complete permission for our govt to use torture on any person it chooses, and to do so in secret.  Wait, you didn't think those two separate routes - the patriot act and the torture bill - were unrelated, didja? ;)

You justify torture of other human beings.  You said that another american (me) deserves a blanket party for pointing out the facts surrounding 911 which show, among other things, that 11 nations warned Bush and he ignored each one.  Me, I am sharing information and debating points in order to help grow the common sense movement that 1) torture is never acceptable, and 2) 911 had some assistance from white guys in ties.

Now, should I be anally prodded with a plunger then sent to Gitmo?  Jeez, man.  I'm fighting to keep our freedoms intacts and to help the truth come out about a terror attack that killed 3000 of our fellow Americans.  Are you? ;)

Mr. Intenseone

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Re: The torture has got to stop.........
« Reply #16 on: September 18, 2006, 10:39:19 PM »

Mr. Intenseone

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Re: The torture has got to stop.........
« Reply #17 on: September 18, 2006, 10:41:58 PM »
  No, his mom is.

Bite me......at least my mom is female  :-X!!

brianX

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Re: The torture has got to stop.........
« Reply #18 on: September 18, 2006, 10:52:47 PM »
Monster respect for the Constitution.
hahahahahahahahahahahaha

Dos Equis

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Re: The torture has got to stop.........
« Reply #19 on: September 18, 2006, 10:57:34 PM »
where can I find the videos of our troops beheading the terrorists?  or the innocent Iraqi's/afghans?  how about all the bodies of the tortured Iraqi's/afghans that our troops dump all over the battle zones?  or how about the buses, restaurants, daycares, police stations that our troops are blowing up?  wait a sec, we haven't been doing those things have we?  it's the terrorists that are doing it and if they are tortured some when caught and it saves one life, so be it.  thank God, they haven't been hitting us on our soil, every basher would be clamoring about Bush not doing anything.  Damn I still can't understand how he has time to run the war on terror since he's been so busy blowing up levees, buildings, secret deals for his friends, and making sure all the people involved with the "conspiracies" quiet.

You won't find pictures of American troops beheading noncombatants, but you will find pictures of soldiers taking pictures of naked terrorists . . . and going to jail for it.  I guess we showed them.  Cut off the head of an innocent young man and we'll take a picture of you in your underwear. 

And I agree about Bush.  How does he carry out a massive plan to murder innocent civilians, steal oil, AND run the country?  Amazing. 

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Re: The torture has got to stop.........
« Reply #20 on: September 18, 2006, 11:04:58 PM »
You won't find pictures of American troops beheading noncombatants, but you will find pictures of soldiers taking pictures of naked terrorists . . . and going to jail for it.  I guess we showed them.  Cut off the head of an innocent young man and we'll take a picture of you in your underwear. 

And I agree about Bush.  How does he carry out a massive plan to murder innocent civilians, steal oil, AND run the country?  Amazing. 

I think you have a very simplistic view of how things work.

You're older.  I'm surprised you're so close-minded about this.  Are you not aware of the foreign influences in our govt?  The dual citizenships that many in govt have with one particular country?  Are you unaware of the history of the relationships between the US and that nation, in terms of financial, intel, drug, weapons, political, and other ties?

Come on man - if you're over 25, you have no reason to be ignorant of these events. you've lived through them.

Dos Equis

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Re: The torture has got to stop.........
« Reply #21 on: September 18, 2006, 11:26:28 PM »
I think you have a very simplistic view of how things work.

You're older.  I'm surprised you're so close-minded about this.  Are you not aware of the foreign influences in our govt?  The dual citizenships that many in govt have with one particular country?  Are you unaware of the history of the relationships between the US and that nation, in terms of financial, intel, drug, weapons, political, and other ties?

Come on man - if you're over 25, you have no reason to be ignorant of these events. you've lived through them.

I have a simplistic view, because I'm simple minded and believe that generally the simplest and most logical explanation is usually the right one. 

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Re: The torture has got to stop.........
« Reply #22 on: September 18, 2006, 11:38:11 PM »
I have a simplistic view, because I'm simple minded and believe that generally the simplest and most logical explanation is usually the right one. 

Don't the myriad of anomalies and statistical improbabilities that took place on 911 - all in the favor of the bad guys - bug you a bit, then?

NORAD sabotaged itself that day.  It's as simple as that.
The US Govt didn't want an investigation.  UNline anything else in US history. nothing simple there.

Wombat

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Re: The torture has got to stop.........
« Reply #23 on: September 19, 2006, 12:28:52 AM »
i say just put micro chip well into their organs...Where ever they go, you know where they are at...And if someone finds the chip inside them, they will probably kill them anyway...

24KT

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Re: The torture has got to stop.........
« Reply #24 on: September 19, 2006, 02:48:33 AM »
Now, should I be anally prodded with a plunger then sent to Gitmo?  Jeez, man.  I'm fighting to keep our freedoms intacts and to help the truth come out about a terror attack that killed 3000 of our fellow Americans.  Are you? ;)

When you go down that road, ...you end up with situations like this...

http://www.citynews.ca/news/news_3655.aspx

I wonder how much this is going to cost the Canadian tax payer in restitution?

How can you adequately compensate an innocent man who had to undergo this?

It reminds me of the Salem witch trials. They torture you long enough, ...eventually you're going to confess to being a witch, ...and if you don't confess, ...you MUST be a witch in order to be able to withstand all that torture.  :-\

shoot... if that were me, ...I'd be confessing to kidnapping the frikking Lindbergh baby
w