Analogy

[Butterbean]

There was a soldier in the Army.  He had smoked most of his life...even since he was a boy. 

The cigarettes were adversely affecting his health and his physical performance.

He tried several times on his own to stop smoking, always to pick up a cigarette after just a day or two.

One day, his commanding officer gave him an order to stop smoking.  The soldier tried to explain that he knew he was unable to do it, he had tried hundreds of times.

The officer told him, "I have given you an order.  You are not to smoke again.  The consequences you will face from me will be severe if you continue."

The soldier struggled but did not pick up a cigarette.  Every time he had the overwhelming urge to smoke, he thought of the commanding officer and his words and he overcame each urge to smoke.

The soldier never smoked again.

His focus was not on cigarettes anymore, but on the one who wanted him to quit.

[Colossus_500]

Ooh!  That was deep, buddyro!   

Great analogy.

[OzmO]

There was a soldier in the Army.  He had smoked most of his life...even since he was a boy. 

The cigarettes were adversely affecting his health and his physical performance.

He tried several times on his own to stop smoking, always to pick up a cigarette after just a day or two.

One day, his commanding officer gave him an order to stop smoking.  The soldier tried to explain that he knew he was unable to do it, he had tried hundreds of times.

The officer told him, "I have given you an order.  You are not to smoke again.  The consequences you will face from me will be severe if you continue."

The soldier struggled but did not pick up a cigarette.  Every time he had the overwhelming urge to smoke, he thought of the commanding officer and his words and he overcame each urge to smoke.

The soldier never smoked again.

His focus was not on cigarettes anymore, but on the one who wanted him to quit.

 

This guy didn't quit smoking because it was bad for him and he respected the body GOD gave him and his self-Image didn't want to be dependent on a drug to feel relaxed or what ever.

He quit becuase of FEAR.

That's the same mode of control and manipulation most religions use in one way or another.

So what happens?  People don't sin becuase of fear not because it's not right or prudent.

You take away the officier and you still have a smoker.

You take away the church and you still have a sinner.

What you really do is take away your GOD-given ability to change and repace it with a fear driven control mechanism.

IMO opinion when you do stuff like this you disrespect the amazing abilites GOD gave us. 

This man truely did not quit smoking.

And many people truely do not quit sinning.

However when they discover GOD inside them they realize they have the power to change their lives and they don't need to be scared  or manipulated or controlled into doing it.

[Migs]

good counter point Ozmo

[Butterbean]

Hi Ozmo, the point of the story is to take your focus off of yourself,  and put it on Jesus. 

I heard it about 2 years ago and maybe left some parts out so it didn't come across right.

This guy didn't quit smoking because it was bad for him and he respected the body GOD gave him and his self-Image didn't want to be dependent on a drug to feel relaxed or what ever.

He quit becuase of FEAR.

Don't you also think he also quit because he knew it was bad for him?  He knew it was destroying him.  Why would he have tried to quit hundreds of times before on his own?  And there may be a fear there but from the analogy (which I evidently screwed up  sorry) the fear is a healthy fear and for the man's good. 

It's not like the CO told him to go rape children or there would be consequences, he told him to stop smoking.....that is beneficial to the man.

He quit becuase of FEAR.

That's the same mode of control and manipulation most religions use in one way or another.

So what happens?  People don't sin becuase of fear not because it's not right or prudent.

Although people DO STOP SINNING because they realize that some things are not right
or prudent:

adultery - realize the pain they can cause their spouse, children



a level of FEAR cannot always be said to be bad in deterring certain behaviors.  A Fear of "discipline" can be a good thing.

adultery - fear of acquiring an STD, fear of unwanted pregnancy

or fear of arrest deters certain criminal behaviors

You take away the officier and you still have a smoker.

You take away the church and you still have a sinner.

What you really do is take away your GOD-given ability to change and repace it with a fear driven control mechanism.

IMO opinion when you do stuff like this you disrespect the amazing abilites GOD gave us. 

This man truely did not quit smoking.

And many people truely do not quit sinning.

However when they discover GOD inside them they realize they have the power to change their lives and they don't need to be scared  or manipulated or controlled into doing it.

No human being ever stops sinning completely....not while we are still here in these bodies on earth.


That being said, I agree w/you that a lot of religion's main foundations are fear.  But at least one is based on love.

[a_joker10]

adultery - realize the pain they can cause their spouse, children



a level of FEAR cannot always be said to be bad in deterring certain behaviors.  A Fear of "discipline" can be a good thing.

adultery - fear of acquiring an STD, fear of unwanted pregnancy

or fear of arrest deters certain criminal behaviors



No human being ever stops sinning completely....not while we are still here in these bodies on earth.


That being said, I agree w/you that a lot of religion's main foundations are fear.  But at least one is based on love.

I would hope that one doesn't commit adultry because the LOVE their spouse.

If fear is the deterinent to keep a couple together, then the relationship is not strong. I would also conclude the man is actually living in some sort of bondage to that spouse, A terrible situation indeed.

What your story, Stella, points to is a role of discipline in society. What God is doing in setting a standard for the person and a consequence to the action. In your analogy one would assume that person trusts God and that he will back up his punishment.

I would hope that the person stops smoking because he respects his commander and doesn't want to let him down. The punishment is only a guide to ensure that he understands there will consequences if he lets him down.

I beleive that God would motivate with LOVE and RESPECT.

Fear and Intimidation are devices of the Devil.

[OzmO]

Hi Ozmo, the point of the story is to take your focus off of yourself,  and put it on Jesus. 

If you believe you are GOD's creation and that GOD gave you everything you need to live your life and that GOD is inside you then your focus should be on yourself.  Not a fear based control tactic.  However if focusing Jesus helps you then I'm for it.  but i think the real leason that needs to be learned is that the person quit becuase of the decision they made and the desire to see that desicion through.  The strenght to do things like this has been given to us by GOD.   

Now for some people at certain points in their lives organized religion is good for them because it provides structure and guidence, however at some point or another i believe the dogma of the particular religion isn't pure with it's intentions  more then just to help.  They want followers, they want converts, they want donations.  These people that find salvation in a church I believe need to continue their journey and if they do they will find more of GOD outside the church and see much of what the church really is.  (not all bad of course  )

Don't you also think he also quit because he knew it was bad for him?  He knew it was destroying him.  Why would he have tried to quit hundreds of times before on his own?  And there may be a fear there but from the analogy (which I evidently screwed up  sorry) the fear is a healthy fear and for the man's good. 

Yes,  some fear for the right reasons is healthy.  If FEAR gets them to quit i suppose the end justifies the means but really you haven't conquered the "smoking demon" completely until you quit for the right reasons.  And you do it yourself. 

No human being ever stops sinning completely....not while we are still here in these bodies on earth.

This is where many poeple differ.....  or at least i do.  I don't believe much of what the BIBLE says are sins are really sins.

Think about it,  It's like a gigantic Brain Screw job.   "we are born to fail" ?  The only way we can succeed is if we accept Jesus?  or accept GOD?  All religions seem to have some "control mechanism"  like this.    It's like your parents telling you are not good enough to be their kid.  I say it's a BIG bunch of BS.  We weren't created to fail.  We weren't created to sin.  We were created to do great and wonderful things with the abilbity to show immense compasion and generosity.

[Cavalier22]

what if there was no rhyme or reason for our creation.

[Clubber Lang]

There was a soldier in the Army.  He had smoked most of his life...even since he was a boy. 

The cigarettes were adversely affecting his health and his physical performance.

He tried several times on his own to stop smoking, always to pick up a cigarette after just a day or two.

One day, his commanding officer gave him an order to stop smoking.  The soldier tried to explain that he knew he was unable to do it, he had tried hundreds of times.

The officer told him, "I have given you an order.  You are not to smoke again.  The consequences you will face from me will be severe if you continue."

The soldier struggled but did not pick up a cigarette.  Every time he had the overwhelming urge to smoke, he thought of the commanding officer and his words and he overcame each urge to smoke.

The soldier never smoked again.

His focus was not on cigarettes anymore, but on the one who wanted him to quit.

fear is a great motivator, worked well for EVERY totalitarian regime in history