Gay adoption?

[tonymctones]

I think they make that choice because the desire is in them. As you say, a "disposition" exists.  For me there's no desire, so no choice will ever be made.  But for those with the "disposition" they can choose to live miserably or live happily.  I say everyone is entitled to be happy and what 2 consenting adults do with their time is there choice so long as no one gets bitch slapped.   

I personally, am not worried that otherwise straight people would end up gay because they had gay parents. (that's my opinion based on personal experience not actual studies)  If you are gay you are gay.  I remember the well the strong desire i had for girls at a very early age.  Nothing would have dissuaded me, even the threat of ever lasting damnation from God didn't stop me.   

right and i understand and respect that but your point of view stems from your belief that homosexuality is ok, i dont and even if i did there is no logical point to homosexuality. If you are against it homosexuality as a whole, and given that the more approving a society is to a given predisposition the more individuals will choose to indulge that given predisposition then you are going to be against just about ANYTHING that normalizes that behavior.

[OzmO]

right and i understand and respect that but your point of view stems from your belief that homosexuality is ok, i dont and even if i did there is no logical point to homosexuality. If you are against it homosexuality as a whole, and given that the more approving a society is to a given predisposition the more individuals will choose to indulge that given predisposition then you are going to be against just about ANYTHING that normalizes that behavior.

I don't think homosexuality is normal.  People aren't normal for the most part anyway.  You are right, I don't think there is anything wrong with homosexuality for those that are homosexual.  For Straight folks, there's a ton of stuff wrong with it. 

The thing is, homosexuality will never be normal, no matter how accepted it is.  People will either dig the opposite or in a smaller percentage dig the same sex.

Interesting, I remember about 15 years ago, spending about a year with this very Word of God Bible believing church and some of them saying sex in general is an abnormal act. 

[Eisenherz]

I don't think homosexuality is normal. 

Funny, neither does nature. I've never seen or heard about our closest relatives the apes having homosexual sex.

[benz]

Instead of gay adoption, how about Gay Extermination? sick homos i hate them

[tonymctones]

I don't think homosexuality is normal.  People aren't normal for the most part anyway.  You are right, I don't think there is anything wrong with homosexuality for those that are homosexual.  For Straight folks, there's a ton of stuff wrong with it. 

The thing is, homosexuality will never be normal, no matter how accepted it is.  People will either dig the opposite or in a smaller percentage dig the same sex.

Interesting, I remember about 15 years ago, spending about a year with this very Word of God Bible believing church and some of them saying sex in general is an abnormal act. 

well acts such as legalizing gay marriage and gay adoption look to normalize homosexuality and yes going down the road we are on homosexuality will become just like anything else, im not saying that it will become the norm only that it will become a normal part of society to have gay ppl with families. How is sex an abnormal act if you dont mind me asking?

[tonymctones]

Funny, neither does nature. I've never seen or heard about our closest relatives the apes having homosexual sex.

actually there are cases of apes being "gay" and being secondary car givers to nephews, neices, cousins etc...

[OzmO]

well acts such as legalizing gay marriage and gay adoption look to normalize homosexuality and yes going down the road we are on homosexuality will become just like anything else, im not saying that it will become the norm only that it will become a normal part of society to have gay ppl with families. How is sex an abnormal act if you dont mind me asking?

I remember them calling it a vile act that we weren't design for.  They were pretty hard core if you know what i mean.  All the women wore dresses to church and no make up.  They all had long hair.  Outside of church I catch them occasionally wearing pants.   Many didn't own TV's.  Tough way to live these days.

Oh yeah,  one of told me that a human female is the only female species on earth that has orgasms. 

Anyone know if that's true?

[Eisenherz]

actually there are cases of apes being "gay" .

Pics or didnt happen.

[OzmO]

Funny, neither does nature. I've never seen or heard about our closest relatives the apes having homosexual sex.

Yeah, and the rest of nature is far below humans.  Maybe it's humans advance stature that allows them to enjoy gay sex.   

[tonymctones]

I remember them calling it a vile act that we weren't design for.  They were pretty hard core if you know what i mean.  All the women wore dresses to church and no make up.  They all had long hair.  Outside of church I catch them occasionally wearing pants.   Many didn't own TV's.  Tough way to live these days.

they were talking about sex between a man and a women?

no offense but that assinine, what doesnt make sense is homosexual sex though again is pointless.

[Eisenherz]

Maybe it's humans advance stature that allows them to enjoy gay sex.   

No, it just shows that natural selection is no longer acting on us.

[OzmO]

they were talking about sex between a man and a women?

no offense but that assinine, what doesnt make sense is homosexual sex though again is pointless.

Yep sex between and a man and woman.

I agree it's asinine.  I haven't gone to that church since about 1995.

Oh yeah,  one of them told me that a human female is the only female species on earth that has orgasms.  

Anyone know if that's true?

[Eisenherz]

they were talking about sex between a man and a women?

no offense but that assinine, what doesnt make sense is homosexual sex though again is pointless.

The bible is actualy pro sex, "go forth and be fruitful" or some shit like that.

[OzmO]

No, it just shows that natural selection is no longer acting on us.

lol....or is it and we don't realize it?  

[tonymctones]

Yep sex between and a man and woman.

I agree it's asinine.  I haven't gone to that church since about 1995.

Oh yeah,  one of them told me that a human female is the only female species on earth that has orgasms.  

Anyone know if that's true?

actually i think that female apes can and i believe there is an evolutionary explination for it as well.

[OzmO]

The bible is actualy pro sex, "go forth and be fruitful" or some shit like that.

yeah, procreate to make babies.  Don't procreate to get your rocks off.

Just so you understand, I didn't agree with them.   Plus, some of their wives were..... well, they had great personalities.  

[tonymctones]

yeah, procreate to make babies.  Don't procreate to get your rocks off.

Just so you understand, I didn't agree with them.   Plus, some of their wives were..... well, they had great personalities.   

hahahaha LOL nice

[tonymctones]

actually natural selection is still working, promoting homosexual behavior doesnt help though again its freaking pointless.

[loco]

Yes, I do believe that if the actions and thoughts are kept in obedience to God's word, then a person does not commit sin.  This is not the same as someone saying, "Man, look at that fine butt on that woman.  Lord, please forgive me."  Such a person's heart is not on God.

Yes, I believe that anything that is homosexual in nature, whether it is thought, actions or thoughts not acted out.

for even their women did change the natural use into that which is against nature: And likewise also the men, leaving the natural use of the woman, burned in their lust one toward another...   This is pretty straight forward.

My apologies, but I must continue this conversation tomorrow.  It is after 10:00 P.M. my time, and I have to get up very early in the morning.  God Bless you.

It still reads to me as if it is talking about lust and sexual acts, as opposed to having a "genetic" attraction to the same gender.  But again, I could be proved mistaken.

Romans 1:26-27 (New International Version)

 26Because of this, God gave them over to shameful lusts. Even their women exchanged natural relations for unnatural ones. 27In the same way the men also abandoned natural relations with women and were inflamed with lust for one another. Men committed indecent acts with other men, and received in themselves the due penalty for their perversion.


Romans 1:26-27 (Holman Christian Standard Bible)

 26 This is why God delivered them over to degrading passions. (A) For even their females exchanged natural sexual intercourse (a) for what is unnatural. 27 The males in the same way also left natural sexual intercourse (b) with females and were inflamed in their lust for one another. Males committed shameless acts with males (B) and received in their own persons (c) the appropriate penalty for their perversion. (d)

Footnotes:

a. Romans 1:26 Lit natural use
b. Romans 1:27 Lit natural use
c. Romans 1:27 Or in themselves
d. Romans 1:27 Or error
 
Cross references:

A. Romans 1:26 : 1Th 4:5;
B. Romans 1:27 : Lv 18:22; 20:13; 1Co 6:9;

Great discussion!   

God bless you too!

[BayGBM]

Funny, neither does nature. I've never seen or heard about our closest relatives the apes having homosexual sex.

You need to do a lot more reading (and I don't mean on message boards).

Homosexuality is all over the animal kingdom and has been for centuries.  http://www.nytimes.com/2004/02/07/arts/love-that-dare-not-squeak-its-name.html?scp=2&sq=the%20love%20that%20dare%20not%20squeak%20its%20name&st=cse&pagewanted=all

[fitt@40]

It still reads to me as if it is talking about lust and sexual acts, as opposed to having a "genetic" attraction to the same gender.  But again, I could be proved mistaken.

It is extremely clear to me that God is talking about lust and sexual acts amongst gays.  What does this Scripture say to you?

And they called unto Lot, and said unto him, Where are the men which came in to thee this night? bring them out unto us, that we may know them.
And Lot went out at the door unto them, and shut the door after him, And said, I pray you, brethren, do not so wickedly.  Behold now, I have two daughters which have not known man; let me, I pray you, bring them out unto you, and do ye to them as is good in your eyes: only unto these men do nothing; for therefore came they under the shadow of my roof. And they said, Stand back. And they said again, This one fellow came in to sojourn, and he will needs be a judge: now will we deal worse with thee, than with them. And they pressed sore upon the man, even Lot, and came near to break the door. But the men put forth their hand, and pulled Lot into the house to them, and shut to the door.  And they smote the men that were at the door of the house with blindness, both small and great: so that they wearied themselves to find the door (Genesis 19:5-11).


God destroy Sodom and Gomorrah because of the people's wicked ways.  We know from the above scripture that homosexuality was a part of the sexual immorality that was happening.  If God feels this way about homosexuality, then it stands to reason that it is also sinful to have these thoughts.   I know this is difficult for many people to accept because there are some seemingly decent gay people in communities.  In the past, I have read some of BayGBM's posts on other boards (now I only read here, the nutrition board and occasionally the General topics), and he seems like a good guy.  It is obvious that he's educated and seems to present himself well on these boards.  I would suspect that he is well-liked and respected by those who know him.  That does not change the fact the he commits and promotes a sinful act in the eyes of God.  *BayGBM, if you are reading this, it is not an personal attack directed at you.   

[loco]

It is extremely clear to me that God is talking about lust and sexual acts amongst gays.  What does this Scripture say to you?

And they called unto Lot, and said unto him, Where are the men which came in to thee this night? bring them out unto us, that we may know them.
And Lot went out at the door unto them, and shut the door after him, And said, I pray you, brethren, do not so wickedly.  Behold now, I have two daughters which have not known man; let me, I pray you, bring them out unto you, and do ye to them as is good in your eyes: only unto these men do nothing; for therefore came they under the shadow of my roof. And they said, Stand back. And they said again, This one fellow came in to sojourn, and he will needs be a judge: now will we deal worse with thee, than with them. And they pressed sore upon the man, even Lot, and came near to break the door. But the men put forth their hand, and pulled Lot into the house to them, and shut to the door.  And they smote the men that were at the door of the house with blindness, both small and great: so that they wearied themselves to find the door (Genesis 19:5-11).


God destroy Sodom and Gomorrah because of the people's wicked ways.  We know from the above scripture that homosexuality was a part of the sexual immorality that was happening.  If God feels this way about homosexuality, then it stands to reason that it is also sinful to have these thoughts.   I know this is difficult for many people to accept because there are some seemingly decent gay people in communities.  In the past, I have read some of BayGBM's posts on other boards (now I only read here, the nutrition board and occasionally the General topics), and he seems like a good guy.  It is obvious that he's educated and seems to present himself well on these boards.  I would suspect that he is well-liked and respected by those who know him.  That does not change the fact the he commits and promotes a sinful act in the eyes of God.  *BayGBM, if you are reading this, it is not an personal attack directed at you.   

To me it looks like those men from Sodom and Gomorrah wanted to have sexual intercourse with the two men visiting Lot.  That is clearly a sin and part of the reason God punished the cities.

But again, even in this case, God did not punish the cities because they were born with a "genetic" attraction to the same gender.  These verses too are talking about lust and a sexual act.

I see what you are saying about this being difficult for many people, but it's not difficult for me.  I have no bias or ulterior motives when it comes to this.  I was born and raised in a country were most men are homophobic, most homosexuals are still in the closet, and where same-sex-marriage is illegal and not even a debate.

I am just being honest here about this subject and trying to stick to scripture alone.  I have not yet found a place in the Bible where it says that somebody born with a "genetic" attraction to people of the same sex are doomed, even if they place their faith in Jesus Christ and abstain from lustful thoughts and abstain from sexual immorality.

[loco]

Another thing worth noting is that the 10 Commandments, which were written by the finger of God Himself, do not mention homosexuality specifically, but they do mention adultery specifically.  I am aware that God does condemn homosexuality later in Leviticus 18:22; 20:13.  So I am not saying that it is permissible, but just interesting that homosexuality is not mentioned specifically within the 10 Commandments, but adultery is.

Jesus, as far as we know from the Gospels, never mentioned homosexuality.  But Jesus did mention adultery specifically, and divorce too.

The Bible clearly says that God hates divorce, but it never says that God hates homosexuality, though it clearly says that it is a sin.

Malachi 2:16
"I hate divorce," says the LORD God of Israel

I see Christians making a huge deal about homosexuality, which clearly is a sin, but I don't see Christians making a huge deal about divorce, though the Bible specifically says that God hates divorce.

Just things I believe are worth noticing about us Christians, and worth discussing.

[fitt@40]

I am just being honest here about this subject and trying to stick to scripture alone.  I have not yet found a place in the Bible where it says that somebody born with a "genetic" attraction to people of the same sex are doomed, even if they place their faith in Jesus Christ and abstain from lustful thoughts and abstain from sexual immorality.

If you believe that homosexuality is sinful, do you think that someone can be born gay as a result of God's hand?  I have stated in this thread (or maybe another one) that I sin can be past from our ancestors.
Thou shalt not bow down thyself to them, nor serve them: for I the LORD thy God am a jealous God, visiting the iniquity of the fathers upon the children unto the third and fourth generation of them that hate me (EX 20:4-6).

It would appear that Christians spend a lot of time chastising gays.  Sin is sin, whether it be lying, stealing, adultery, fornication or homosexuality.  I would imagine gays are pursued more because there is a "gay movement" to say that it is not sinful.  Have you ever heard of liars and thieves suggesting that their acts are not sinful? 

[fitt@40]

I see Christians making a huge deal about homosexuality, which clearly is a sin, but I don't see Christians making a huge deal about divorce, though the Bible specifically says that God hates divorce.

I mean you no disrespect, but you seem to want to justify homosexuality.  You say it is a sin, but I sense that you are somewhat defending the act.  As I stated in the previous post, sin is sin.  It does not matter if it homosexuality or lying.  You cannot chose to defend one sin and ignore others.  Granted, Christians need to keep this in mind too (as you have alluded to).

There are two times that God allows for divorce.  If a person commits adultery, then the spouse is free to seek a divorce.  Also, if a Christian is married to a Non-Christians, and the Non-Christian wants to divorce, it is permissible.