Abortion...

[Cap]

Brink, I like you man but people know how babies are made and are still dumb enough to have rampant unprotected sex.  If they get pregnant, that is there fault.  They know that condoms are highly effective and free clinics hand out contraception if I'm not mistaken.  In the end, the doctors and mothers will have to live with their actions, both here and heaven if you believe in it.

Like I've said, if we are going to execute babies we need to execute all the violent shit rotting in jail.

Oh, we should have soldiers go spit on abortion docs and scream "Baby killers"...that would be fun to watch.   

[leland000]

First, learn how to quote. It's not rocket science.

Nope. For me, if it's in my body, attached to my body, growing in my body, my rights trump any others period. Once outside my body/does not rely on my body directly for survival, it has rights as a living human being. You cant try and twist it anyway you want, use 4th grader semantics, etc, it will not change.

I would like to see more funds and effort into reducing pregnancy rates, which would lead to less abortions. Funds for education (which correlates well to reduced unwanted teen pregnancy rates) and other measures to reduce unwanted pregnancy which = less abortion. These measures are exactly what has been cut back on by the current anti abortion administration. I would like to see anyone who is anti abortion forced to adopt those kids sitting in adoption homes unwanted. How many have YOU personally adopted while telling women they have to keep them? My guess, like 99.9% of anti abortion types, would be none.

All talk from your comp, no actual personal work or experience helping to prevent pregnancy, etc, etc. I at least have done some volunteer work in clinics and such.

I would like to see less unwanted pregnancies, and funds and effort put to that end, which will = less abortions. We have far too many of them in this country. However, at the end of the day, the womens rights to her own body trump all others.

First, I know how to quote....my responses were in bold unlike that cluttered mess of shit you just posted!

"Don't like abortion don't have one" You believe this is a logical statement? Seek help!

You speak of personal volunteer work (should I mention the years of charity work I've done, does it make me a more credible person). You make assumptions about my life...which you have no clue about. Does volunteer work truly mean something to you, or is it merely a feather in your cap? You chastise me for not doing work to prevent pregnancy. I'll worry about educating my own children and put my energy into them, it's not my responsiblity to educate anyone else.

Have I adopted? No

Have you?

Do you know if I'm adopted?

Do you know what it's like lving in an orphanage? I can tell you it's better than not getting a chance in the first place.

Do you know what it's like on this side of the fence?

Are you a father? You want to waste funds to compensate for bad parenting, irresponsiblity, poor morals....I'd rather see those funds go towards research for juvenile diabetes, autism research, and childhood cancer.

From my perspective, it seems like you are very out of touch with this issue and have zero personal experience to draw from. You are an unmarried 40+ year old man with no children correct?

We have very different opinions.... but until you know my personal history, adopt a child, or father a child....get off your soapbox!

[CQ]

I would like to see anyone who is anti abortion forced to adopt those kids sitting in adoption homes unwanted. How many have YOU personally adopted while telling women they have to keep them? My guess, like 99.9% of anti abortion types, would be none.

Exactly, this is a point I make over and over. Never in my life have I met an anti-abortion type who has actually taken in a kid or adopted an unwanted one. They just want to restrict rights while doing nothing to help unwanted kids. Talk is cheap, act if they care that much, if not they don't.

[leland000]

Exactly, this is a point I make over and over. Never in my life have I met an anti-abortion type who has actually taken in a kid or adopted an unwanted one. They just want to restrict rights while doing nothing to help unwanted kids. Talk is cheap, act if they care that much, if not they don't.

Maybe they have children of their own who they are financially responsible for.

Maybe they can't afford the 10-40k costs of just getting a child, let alone the additional costs of raising another child and providing another child with a college education.

[leland000]

A number of you seem very concerned for what you label "unwanted kids".

If you truly care so much....

Why don't you step up to the plate and make a difference in their lives instead of scolding others.

[CQ]

A number of you seem very concerned for what you label "unwanted kids".

If you truly care so much....

Why don't you step up to the plate and make a difference in their lives instead of scolding others.

I agree entirely, and is why I have done that - not just preach to others how to live.

Maybe they have children of their own who they are financially responsible for.

Maybe they can't afford the 10-40k costs of just getting a child, let alone the additional costs of raising another child and providing another child with a college education.

So, basically whichever way it's phrased they don't want to step up to the plate and raise the kid either. Fair anough, it's a lot of work. At least be honest about it.

[Cap]

A number of you seem very concerned for what you label "unwanted kids".

If you truly care so much....

Why don't you step up to the plate and make a difference in their lives instead of scolding others.

They'd rather be "cool" and adopt from other countries like the idiot celebs.  If these celebs were smart they'd adopt kids from here who need homes but that isn't really news-worthy.

[drkaje]

They'd rather be "cool" and adopt from other countries like the idiot celebs.  If these celebs were smart they'd adopt kids from here who need homes but that isn't really news-worthy.

It's not that Chinese or Russian babies are trendy. Here's the real problem; if you adopt some trailer or ghetto chick's baby, at some magical point you're gonna see her ass again either wanting money or the kid back after she's gotten out of re-hab. That chinese skank ain't ever gonna leave the country or disrupt your life.

Same goes with giving up a kid for adoption. They're gonna end up finding your ass on the internet and either wanting the love, money or attention you couldn't give at that particular age. You're gonna have to explain that new teenager or adult to the younger kids, spouse or whoever.

People who want to make abortion illegal should be willing to take the unwanted children. Don't play God in a half-assed manner or pretend the responsibility for what happens stops after your vote.

[timfogarty]

Why don't you step up to the plate and make a difference in their lives instead of scolding others.

a much more effective way to prevent abortions is to prevent unwanted pregnancies.  start handing out condoms.  use peer pressure to make sure every boy uses them.

even if Roe v Wade is overturned, abortion will never be illegal in every state of the union.   the rich will always be able to get them.  the poor will turn to back-alley abortions like they did prior to Roe v Wade.   the leaders of the conservative movement know this.  but rather than pursuing real and practical ways to reduce the number of abortions, they use the subject to rally their base.

[leland000]

a much more effective way to prevent abortions is to prevent unwanted pregnancies.  start handing out condoms.  use peer pressure to make sure every boy uses them.

It's a very solid theory, but we all know in simplest terms it's just not happening. Even with the looming threat of hiv, stds, and unwanted pregnancy people seem to disregard common sense + responsibility and just throw caution to the wind. Just look at the consistent rise in statistics every year.

[drkaje]

a much more effective way to prevent abortions is to prevent unwanted pregnancies.  start handing out condoms.  use peer pressure to make sure every boy uses them.

even if Roe v Wade is overturned, abortion will never be illegal in every state of the union.   the rich will always be able to get them.  the poor will turn to back-alley abortions like they did prior to Roe v Wade.   the leaders of the conservative movement know this.  but rather than pursuing real and practical ways to reduce the number of abortions, they use the subject to rally their base.

Changing welfare regulations is the only way to exert the social pressure that would slow unwanted pregnancies.

[CQ]

even if Roe v Wade is overturned, abortion will never be illegal in every state of the union.   the rich will always be able to get them.  the poor will turn to back-alley abortions like they did prior to Roe v Wade.   the leaders of the conservative movement know this.  but rather than pursuing real and practical ways to reduce the number of abortions, they use the subject to rally their base.

Very well said.

[Dos Equis]

I agree entirely, and is why I have done that - not just preach to others how to live.

So, basically whichever way it's phrased they don't want to step up to the plate and raise the kid either. Fair anough, it's a lot of work. At least be honest about it.

Being pro life is no more about preaching to others about how to live than supporting any other law that prevents killing.  It's about protecting the baby and giving him or her the same protection we give a baby that comes through the womb.   

[CQ]

Being pro life is no more about preaching to others about how to live than supporting any other law that prevents killing.  It's about protecting the baby and giving him or her the same protection we give a baby that comes through the womb.   

Yes I know lol.

Being "pro life" is about preaching to others, while making damn sure they won't raise any those babies themself. Also not facing any realistic facts, like it can't be stopped anyway, so why not work on a realistic solution. If someone is pro life, and doesn't support killing [which I wish all ppl felt], I hope they are anti-death penalty and/or anti war and want to try and change the fact their tax money funds mass scale killing, hope they are not picking and choosing whose lives they value.

[timfogarty]

Changing welfare regulations is the only way to exert the social pressure that would slow unwanted pregnancies.

evidence please.  lots of unwanted (which usually mean teenage) pregnancies in middle class and upper class families

Reagan's Welfare Queen was a fallacy in the 1980s and even more of a fallacy today.
 
the rules to receive welfare changed dramatically under the Clinton admin. AFDC was eliminated in 1996, replaced with TANF

[Dos Equis]

Yes I know lol.

Being "pro life" is about preaching to others, while making damn sure they won't raise any those babies themself. Also not facing any realistic facts, like it can't be stopped anyway, so why not work on a realistic solution. If someone is pro life, and doesn't support killing [which I wish all ppl felt], I hope they are anti-death penalty and/or anti war and want to try and change the fact their tax money funds mass scale killing, hope they are not picking and choosing whose lives they value.

CQ how is it preaching to others if the focus is on protecting defenseless babies?  Are we preaching to others when we tell them not to kill people? 

[drkaje]

evidence please.  lots of unwanted (which usually mean teenage) pregnancies in middle class and upper class families

Reagan's Welfare Queen was a fallacy in the 1980s and even more of a fallacy today.
 
the rules to receive welfare changed dramatically under the Clinton admin. AFDC was eliminated in 1996, replaced with TANF

The rate of whites getting off welfare was far higher than blacks. Many of the blacks ended up being shifted SSI/SSD. Not giving people money for having babies would change things a lot. As for the middle class, DD or DS popping in with a baby would hamper things financially to the point where people would start monitoring the kids, putting Norplant in arms or force feeding birth control pills on a daily basis.

[CQ]

CQ how is it preaching to others if the focus is on protecting defenseless babies?  Are we preaching to others when we tell them not to kill people? 

People want to help babies [which is great], help them. Donate money, foster, adopt, befriend some teen mom and help her out etc etc.... those I see as thing that make a difference. Preaching is words, the babies stuck in homes, the ones dying of starvation, words aren't helping them. There are provable ways to help - I note the anti-abortion crowd actually don't want to get their own hands dirty helping though. Never met one yet who actually walked the walk, I am sure some do, and they would have my utmost respect.

[drkaje]

People want to help babies [which is great], help them. Donate money, foster, adopt, befriend some teen mom and help her out etc etc.... those I see as thing that make a difference. Preaching is words, the babies stuck in homes, the ones dying of starvation, words aren't helping them. There are provable ways to help - I note the anti-abortion crowd actually don't want to get their own hands dirty helping though. Never met one yet who actually walked the walk, I am sure some do, and they would have my utmost respect.

Words don't fill empty stomachs?

[Dos Equis]

People want to help babies [which is great], help them. Donate money, foster, adopt, befriend some teen mom and help her out etc etc.... those I see as thing that make a difference. Preaching is words, the babies stuck in homes, the ones dying of starvation, words aren't helping them. There are provable ways to help - I note the anti-abortion crowd actually don't want to get their own hands dirty helping though. Never met one yet who actually walked the walk, I am sure some do, and they would have my utmost respect.

Can't you say the same thing about people who preach about locking up criminals?  Those folks shouldn't be pro law enforcement unless they take in disadvantaged kids prone to crime, help people on parole, etc. 

I understand your point about the need for people to actually help the community, and I agree with that.  What I don't see is a connection between a person's pro life views and whether those people adopt or take in foster kids.  The question is whether you believe abortion is murder.  If you do, then whether or not you adopt doesn’t change the fact that abortion is murder (if that's  your belief).     

[Hereford]

The rate of whites getting off welfare was far higher than blacks. Many of the blacks ended up being shifted SSI/SSD. Not giving people money for having babies would change things a lot. As for the middle class, DD or DS popping in with a baby would hamper things financially to the point where people would start monitoring the kids, putting Norplant in arms or force feeding birth control pills on a daily basis.

Welfares should be subject to forced sterilization.

Enough of this 'having 4 kids while on the dole' BS....

[Straw Man]

People want to help babies [which is great], help them. Donate money, foster, adopt, befriend some teen mom and help her out etc etc.... those I see as thing that make a difference. Preaching is words, the babies stuck in homes, the ones dying of starvation, words aren't helping them. There are provable ways to help - I note the anti-abortion crowd actually don't want to get their own hands dirty helping though. Never met one yet who actually walked the walk, I am sure some do, and they would have my utmost respect.

all the things you mentioned sound like it would involve some personal sacrifice and effort.

it's much easier to cluck around telling people what to do and then go home and relax

[w8tlftr]

Exactly. Why it's called PRO CHOICE. Don't like abortion? Don't have one, but don't tell some women what she can do with her own body. Just as you said, government should not dictate such things, including what we choose to do with our own body, and yes, the mothers rights trump that of the fetus. Every day, every time.

I was talking about the choice of giving 10 percent of one's salary to a church - not abortion.

In respect to abortion it's, in my opinion, the murder of an innocent life. The baby just doesn't miraculously change from inanimate tissue to that of a living being like some Frankenbaby. Since when did committing the act of murder become an acceptable method of birth control because someone wants to enjoy the adult choice of sex but not accept of adult responsibility of parenthood? Besides, the child can always be put up for adoption.

Tell me, BrinkZone, do you have the right to carry out the murder of a man or woman simply because you choose to?

And in case you're wondering I'm opposed to the death penalty too.

[big L dawg]

yea lets over turn Roe vs. wade..then get rid of welfare..talk about a serious spike in crime..you have people that can't support the kid in the first place so they want to abort.but they can't because bible beating Christians want to push there beliefs and ideals on them.so then what?they have the kid and give it up to adoption.how long would it take before we have orphanages that are as big as prison's full of unwanted children.

[w8tlftr]

yea lets over turn Roe vs. wade..then get rid of welfare..talk about a serious spike in crime..you have people that can't support the kid in the first place so they want to abort.but they can't because bible beating Christians want to push there beliefs and ideals on them.so then what?they have the kid and give it up to adoption.how long would it take before we have orphanages that are as big as prison's full of unwanted children.

So it's only Christians that respect the sanctity of innocent life?

Condoms work.