Author Topic: Bitcoins - about to hit $5,000 per coin today!  (Read 769105 times)

Flexacon

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Re: Bitcoins - about to hit $5,000 per coin today!
« Reply #9725 on: July 13, 2023, 02:06:31 PM »

Can you imagine if Ripple win though . It would be reverse uno for the SEC and the greatest psyop ever. Market confidence would be back in a huge way. Gotta be ready for that just in case.

They haven't won, but shitcoinary won today.


Come on Gib. You've been here longer than anyone. Shitcoins were far more dead in 2019 than they right now. They would need to drop maybe another 80% to reach 2019 "dead" levels".

That can happen if btc hits 40k plus and shitcoin prices dont move, but more likely 2 more Alt washouts/rug pulls are needed.

The SEC also needs to come out with another list of 50 to 100 coins they deem securities. Coinbase, Binance, Kraken and all the other exchanges need to delist them or the exchanges need to go extinct and then maybe shitcoinery stops.

Anything else is just wishful thinking.
Just like the wishful thinking that ETH would be deemed a security.

Gib, A Judge in Ripple v SEC just ruled that shitcoin trading on exchanges is NOT an investment contract, so not a security (direct selling is the issue) just like I told you was the case many times. XRP is getting listed on coinbase right now.

Of course without dodgy exchanges and bad actors wash trading and manipulating shitcoin prices there may well be no x100 coins in the future as there will be no real volume, but that is a battle  for another day. Today you were comprehensively WRONG.

And no *Theoak* the whole of the crypto space isn't captured by the government.

Theoak*

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Re: Bitcoins - about to hit $5,000 per coin today!
« Reply #9726 on: July 13, 2023, 02:53:35 PM »
They haven't won, but shitcoinary won today.

Gib, A Judge in Ripple v SEC just ruled that shitcoin trading on exchanges is NOT an investment contract, so not a security (direct selling is the issue) just like I told you was the case many times. XRP is getting listed on coinbase right now.

Of course without dodgy exchanges and bad actors wash trading and manipulating shitcoin prices there may well be no x100 coins in the future as there will be no real volume, but that is a battle  for another day. Today you were comprehensively WRONG.

And no *Theoak* the whole of the crypto space isn't captured by the government.
 

I never said whole crypto space is captured by government. I said over  a long enough  time frame coins like Eth (pos) become more and more centralised and end up being captured as they resemble the existing fiat system. This will play out over decades, rest of shitn coin will follown their  true price discovery ,0.

As for shit  coins I stated  only 100M people today are in crypto out of 7billion +. So far more retards yet to come into the space to pump,dump and rug pull. 

In terms of Eth, I said it won't be classified as a security even though it should be.


Flexacon

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Re: Bitcoins - about to hit $5,000 per coin today!
« Reply #9727 on: July 13, 2023, 03:04:53 PM »
 

I never said whole crypto space is captured by government. I said over  a long enough  time frame coins like Eth (pos) become more and more centralised and end up being captured as they resemble the existing fiat system. This will play out over decades, rest of shitn coin will follown their  true price discovery ,0.

As for shit  coins I stated  only 100M people today are in crypto out of 7billion +. So far more retards yet to come into the space to pump,dump and rug pull. 

In terms of Eth, I said it won't be classified as a security even though it should be.

I was preemptively trolling your earlier captured Eth post

 
In terms of Eth, I said it won't be classified as a security even though it should be.

Or maybe, just maybe yours and Gibs take on the subject was just wrong.

Thin Lizzy

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Re: Bitcoins - about to hit $5,000 per coin today!
« Reply #9728 on: July 13, 2023, 03:32:58 PM »
Shorts got spanked on Coin:


obsidian

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Re: Bitcoins - about to hit $5,000 per coin today!
« Reply #9729 on: July 13, 2023, 07:00:38 PM »
They haven't won, but shitcoinary won today.

Gib, A Judge in Ripple v SEC just ruled that shitcoin trading on exchanges is NOT an investment contract, so not a security (direct selling is the issue) just like I told you was the case many times. XRP is getting listed on coinbase right now.

Of course without dodgy exchanges and bad actors wash trading and manipulating shitcoin prices there may well be no x100 coins in the future as there will be no real volume, but that is a battle  for another day. Today you were comprehensively WRONG.

And no *Theoak* the whole of the crypto space isn't captured by the government.
Ripple was up over 70% today! It's retraced a bit. XRP was screwed in the last bull run. Perhaps this time it will lead the way?

https://www.reuters.com/legal/us-judge-says-sec-lawsuit-vs-ripple-labs-can-proceed-trial-some-claims-2023-07-13/

Ripple Labs notches landmark win in SEC case over XRP cryptocurrency

July 13 (Reuters) - Ripple Labs Inc did not violate federal securities law by selling its XRP token on public exchanges, a U.S. judge ruled on Thursday, a landmark legal victory for the cryptocurrency industry that sent the value of XRP soaring.

XRP was up 75% by late afternoon on Thursday, according to Refinitiv Eikon data.

The ruling by U.S. District Judge Analisa Torres was the first win for a cryptocurrency company in a case brought by the U.S. Securities and Exchange Commission -- though it did also give the SEC a partial victory.

While the decision is specific to the facts of the case, it likely will provide ammunition for other crypto firms battling the SEC over whether their products fall under the regulator's jurisdiction.

An SEC spokesperson said the agency was pleased with part of the ruling in which the judge held that Ripple violated federal securities law by selling XRP directly to sophisticated investors.

It is possible for the ruling to be appealed once a final judgment is issued, or if the judge allows it before then.

The SEC spokesperson said the regulator was reviewing the decision.

Ripple Chief Executive Brad Garlinghouse in an interview called the ruling "a huge win for Ripple but more importantly for the industry overall in the U.S."

Coinbase (COIN.O), the largest U.S. crypto exchange, said it would again allow trading of XRP on its platform.

"We’ve read Judge Torres’ thoughtful decision. We’ve carefully reviewed our analysis. It’s time to relist," Coinbase chief legal officer Paul Grewal said on Twitter.

WHEN CRYPTO IS NOT A SECURITY
The SEC had accused the company and its current and former chief executives of conducting a $1.3 billion unregistered securities offering by selling XRP, which Ripple's founders created in 2012.

The case has been closely watched in the cryptocurrency industry, which disputes the SEC's assertion that the vast majority of crypto tokens are securities and subject to its strict investor protection rules. The agency has brought more than 100 enforcement crypto actions, claiming various tokens are securities, but many of those have ended in settlements.

In the few cases that have gone to court, judges have agreed with the SEC that the crypto assets at issue were securities, which unlike assets such as commodities are strictly regulated, must be registered with the SEC by their issuer and require detailed disclosures to inform investors of potential risks.

Torres ruled that Ripple's XRP sales on public cryptocurrency exchanges were not offers of securities under the law, because purchasers did not have a reasonable expectation of profit tied to Ripple's efforts.

Those sales were "blind bid/ask transactions," she said, in which buyers "could not have known if their payments of money went to Ripple, or any other seller of XRP."

Torres applied a U.S. Supreme Court case that said "an investment of money in a common enterprise with profits to come solely from the efforts of others," is a kind of security called an investment contract.

XRP sales on cryptocurrency platforms by Garlinghouse and co-founder and former CEO Chris Larsen, and other distributions including compensation to employees also did not involve securities, Torres ruled.

PARTIAL WIN FOR THE SEC
The SEC won a partial victory as Torres found the company's $728.9 million of XRP sales to hedge funds and other sophisticated buyers amounted to unregistered sales of securities.

Torres ruled that Ripple's marketing aimed at institutional investors made clear the company "was pitching a speculative value proposition for XRP" that depended on company efforts to develop the blockchain infrastructure behind the digital asset.

She said a jury must decide whether Garlinghouse and Larsen aided the company's violation of law, and that the defendants cannot argue at trial that they lacked "fair notice" that XRP was a cryptocurrency.

"The law does not require the SEC to warn all potential violators on an individual or industry level," she said.

CALLS FOR LEGISLATION
Gary DeWaal, an attorney at Katten Muchin Rosenman, said the ruling should help Coinbase in fighting its own SEC case.

The market reaction indicates the ruling is a "tremendous event for the industry," he said.

Both the Ripple and Coinbase cases focus on registration requirements and whether certain digital assets are securities under U.S. law.

The crypto industry has called for legislation to provide clear rules for tokens, and the ruling brought new calls for Congress to clarify the status of digital assets.

House of Representatives Majority Whip Tom Emmer, a Republican, in a post on Twitter said the ruling established that "a token is separate and distinct from an investment contract it may or may not be part of."

"Now, let’s make it law," he said.

Reporting by Jody Godoy and Chris Prentice in New York and Tom Hals in Wilmington, Delaware; Editing by Chizu Nomiyama, Conor Humphries, Leslie Adler and David Gregorio

obsidian

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Re: Bitcoins - about to hit $5,000 per coin today!
« Reply #9730 on: July 13, 2023, 07:05:09 PM »
The reason Bitcoin is lagging today is because of the recent ESG ratings that came out for cryptos. Like it or not, ESG is a factor.

https://www.coindesk.com/markets/2023/07/13/ethereum-tops-new-crypto-esg-ranking-bitcoin-slammed-for-heavy-energy-usage/

obsidian

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Re: Bitcoins - about to hit $5,000 per coin today!
« Reply #9731 on: July 13, 2023, 07:09:54 PM »
 

I never said whole crypto space is captured by government. I said over  a long enough  time frame coins like Eth (pos) become more and more centralised and end up being captured as they resemble the existing fiat system. This will play out over decades, rest of shitn coin will follown their  true price discovery ,0.

As for shit  coins I stated  only 100M people today are in crypto out of 7billion +. So far more retards yet to come into the space to pump,dump and rug pull. 

In terms of Eth, I said it won't be classified as a security even though it should be.
https://cryptoslate.com/analysis-bitcoin-costs-1-4-billion-to-51-attack-consumes-as-much-electricity-as-morocco/

Analysis: Bitcoin Costs $1.4 Billion to 51% Attack, Consumes as Much Electricity as Morocco

To successfully conduct a 51 percent attack on the Bitcoin network would cost an incredible $1.4 billion. This massive network supports over 5 million specialized ASIC mining computers, consuming a total of 29 Terawatt hours of electricity a year—as much as the entire country of Morocco.

One of the underpinnings of the Bitcoin network is its security. The major selling points of BTC is its ability to survive censorship, repel malicious actors, and dodge regulatory scrutiny. To achieve this security, it is necessary that computers engage in an activity called ‘mining,’ the process of solving complex algorithms while adding transactions to the Bitcoin ledger.

In a clever combination of cryptography and behavioral economics, miners are rewarded for acting honestly and securing the network. These miners are selected randomly based on the percentage of the mining power they own and by extension the percentage of computer hardware that they own.

One of the key concepts in the Bitcoin blockchain is that the longest chain of blocks (equal to the longest string of selected miners) is considered the ‘real’ Bitcoin, or the real state of the ledger.

However, there is one vulnerability to this system. If an individual, or group of individuals, is able to secure more than fifty percent of the network, then they would be able to take control over it: a so-called fifty-one percent attack. Once taken over, this group could rewrite the supposedly immutable Bitcoin history, change the core software on the system, steal Bitcoin from users, and conduct a whole host of other nefarious acts.

Why Mining is Expensive

In order to secure the network against fifty-one percent attacks, it is crucial that inordinately expensive processes are required for any one group to gain control of more than half the network. As such, the process of mining is extremely electricity-intensive, and intentionally so. The purportedly ‘wasteful’ Bitcoin mining makes the cost of taking over the network impractical.

Analysts at CryptoSlate were able to compute the amount of money it would take to conduct such an attack. To gain a sustainable 50 percent or more of the network, it would require that an organization either build its own facilities or collude with existing Bitcoin miners.

For the full figures and calculations, scroll to the “Calculations and Math” section at the footer of the article.

By the Numbers

Based on the current number of computations produced by the computers solving the Bitcoin algorithm, a.k.a. the network hash rate, it would cost approximately $1.4 billion to conduct a fifty-one percent attack.

Such an attack would require 2.4 million of the most advanced ASIC computers currently available. To house these units it would require approximately $250 million in infrastructure, including buildings, ventilation, and other construction costs.

This many ASICs would consume roughly 29.3 Terawatts of electricity annually, roughly the same amount of electricity that is consumed by the entire country of Morocco.

At a standard electricity rate of $0.12 per kWh, mining one Bitcoin costs $6100.

To run all of these ASICs would cost over $2 million per day in electricity alone. Labor and other miscellaneous costs would add another $240 thousand to this daily figure. Note, these figures do not include potential costs that could be recouped by selling Bitcoin back into the market during the chaos. It is possible that an attacker could recoup 20-100 percent of the costs depending on the health of the Bitcoin market at the time of the sale, potentially reducing the cost of attack.

Note, these metrics mirror what the total Bitcoin network currently consumes, not accounting for higher electricity costs and mining with inefficient hardware.

What this Means for Bitcoin

The astronomical costs to fifty-one percent attack Bitcoin make it fairly secure from a potential attack from an outsider. It is quite unlikely that any private entity would be able to amass the funds, or wherewithal, to attack the Bitcoin network. For a public network that facilitates over 250 thousand transactions per day, it is necessary for a network to be this secure.

Even if such an attack were possible, such an exercise would render any spoils near worthless as the confidence in the Bitcoin network would be destroyed.

That said, the network is still highly vulnerable to cartels. Some sources estimate that 70-80 percent of mining is conducted in China. Although these miners are competitors, many of them regularly meet with each other at conferences and other events. Since there are some lucrative incentives to collude, such as passing favorable updates to the Bitcoin software, it is possible that these miners are already impacting the direction of software updates to the underlying protocol.

Another such doomsday scenario is that a government, such as China’s, could gather the resources necessary to build this number of mining facilities, or even commandeer existing ones through nationalization.

Even considering all of these possibilities, the cost to totally undermine the Bitcoin network is astronomical. This clever combination of cryptography and financial incentives makes Bitcoin an incredibly secure public network, and, consequently, is one of the major reasons for Bitcoin’s underlying value and appeal as a store of value and a means of commerce.

However, how the technology will survive against more efficient security algorithms, such as proof-of-stake, is another matter entirely.

Flexacon

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Re: Bitcoins - about to hit $5,000 per coin today!
« Reply #9732 on: July 13, 2023, 10:18:41 PM »
Ripple was up over 70% today! It's retraced a bit. XRP was screwed in the last bull run. Perhaps this time it will lead the way?


The ripple guys deserve to have the book thrown at them. As far as XRP goes it's maybe lost too much ground as a cryptocurrency and tradfi have been working on similar solutions. A shame as it might have been something special.

The reason Bitcoin is lagging today is because of the recent ESG ratings that came out for cryptos. Like it or not, ESG is a factor.

https://www.coindesk.com/markets/2023/07/13/ethereum-tops-new-crypto-esg-ranking-bitcoin-slammed-for-heavy-energy-usage/

I think BTC was just lagging because the judgment in Ripple vs SEC was bullish only for alts. They were just making up some of the ground they lost. Normal service will resume with BTC leading.


Thin Lizzy

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Re: Bitcoins - about to hit $5,000 per coin today!
« Reply #9733 on: July 14, 2023, 06:14:31 AM »
 

I never said whole crypto space is captured by government. I said over  a long enough  time frame coins like Eth (pos) become more and more centralised and end up being captured as they resemble the existing fiat system. This will play out over decades, rest of shitn coin will follown their  true price discovery ,0.

As for shit  coins I stated  only 100M people today are in crypto out of 7billion +. So far more retards yet to come into the space to pump,dump and rug pull. 

In terms of Eth, I said it won't be classified as a security even though it should be.

I’ve always believed this. The whole reason for dropping the Gold Standard is because it put “Golden Handcuffs” on government spending. Why would these same governments advocate another type of currency that can’t be created out of thin air?

Mayday

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Re: Bitcoins - about to hit $5,000 per coin today!
« Reply #9734 on: July 14, 2023, 03:43:28 PM »
Why would these same governments advocate another type of currency that can’t be created out of thin air?

Exactly. They won’t. The measurement is a currency’s value vs another currency, not Gold which is why they ditched it. Been almost 50yrs and nothing has collapsed despite the constant end of fiat fears.

We shut down the entire globe. Printed money out of thin air. Experienced the largest property boom of our young generation, experienced the largest wage inflation of our generation, the best employment of our generation. Yet all we hear of is misery and collapse.

Printing money is awesome if you understand how to use it to your advantage which these global controllers clearly do. Average Joe has no fucking idea and keeps resetting their debt clock.

Mayday

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Re: Bitcoins - about to hit $5,000 per coin today!
« Reply #9735 on: July 14, 2023, 03:59:20 PM »
Ripple was up over 70% today! It's retraced a bit. XRP was screwed in the last bull run. Perhaps this time it will lead the way?

Down for 2,000 days and dumped right at the sweet spot.

Hyped like crazy only to be dumped on…… Oh but the big wave is coming…. You just need to wait another 600+ days and it’ll go to $15 lol 😂 

obsidian

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Re: Bitcoins - about to hit $5,000 per coin today!
« Reply #9736 on: July 14, 2023, 04:24:19 PM »
Down for 2,000 days and dumped right at the sweet spot.

Hyped like crazy only to be dumped on…… Oh but the big wave is coming…. You just need to wait another 600+ days and it’ll go to $15 lol 😂
So far it has not really dumped much post-recent-SEC-verdict. It's up 53.69% for the past 7 days. Look at the graph.

XRP was screwed when the SEC sued Ripple. That's what really tanked and suppressed the price. Some would argue the recent verdict makes XRP the only regulated crypto to date.

obsidian

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Re: Bitcoins - about to hit $5,000 per coin today!
« Reply #9737 on: July 14, 2023, 04:31:41 PM »
The ripple guys deserve to have the book thrown at them. As far as XRP goes it's maybe lost too much ground as a cryptocurrency and tradfi have been working on similar solutions. A shame as it might have been something special.

I think BTC was just lagging because the judgment in Ripple vs SEC was bullish only for alts. They were just making up some of the ground they lost. Normal service will resume with BTC leading.
Well if you zoom out 3 years then BTC is trailing ETH, BNB, XRP, SOL, DOGE.

Zoom 5 years out and BTC edges out ETH by a little and still trails BNB and DOGE significantly.

Thin Lizzy

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Re: Bitcoins - about to hit $5,000 per coin today!
« Reply #9738 on: July 14, 2023, 04:50:09 PM »
Exactly. They won’t. The measurement is a currency’s value vs another currency, not Gold which is why they ditched it. Been almost 50yrs and nothing has collapsed despite the constant end of fiat fears.

We shut down the entire globe. Printed money out of thin air. Experienced the largest property boom of our young generation, experienced the largest wage inflation of our generation, the best employment of our generation. Yet all we hear of is misery and collapse.

Printing money is awesome if you understand how to use it to your advantage which these global controllers clearly do. Average Joe has no fucking idea and keeps resetting their debt clock.

China coming on board was a huge factor in this. The massive growth of the Chinese economy for 30 years was extremely deflationary allowing the financial establishment to get away with massive devaluation without a corresponding rise in prices. Now that China’s growth has essentially halted, they won’t be able to get away with the shenanigans to the same extent.

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Re: Bitcoins - about to hit $5,000 per coin today!
« Reply #9739 on: July 15, 2023, 08:51:08 PM »
So far it has not really dumped much post-recent-SEC-verdict. It's up 53.69% for the past 7 days. Look at the graph.

XRP was screwed when the SEC sued Ripple. That's what really tanked and suppressed the price. Some would argue the recent verdict makes XRP the only regulated crypto to date.

Mmmmm 2,000 days of not being able to make an ATH. when the biggest pump hype argument it’s been waiting comes in it only bumps an extra +50%. Sorry but I’m not excited over that at all because it Got dumped from a 2,000 days downtrend which is not good news.

Every main coin is above its 2017 ATH meanwhile XRP is -77% down. There are no more court cases to win for XRP, it’s already not a security. An old coin now has to fight 60,000 other alt coins for money share and the one till it had has been used.

The one fly in the ointment for crypto is the crowd learned to head straight for new alts. All those NFTs of punks and monkey’s are trapped.

China coming on board was a huge factor in this. The massive growth of the Chinese economy for 30 years was extremely deflationary allowing the financial establishment to get away with massive devaluation without a corresponding rise in prices. Now that China’s growth has essentially halted, they won’t be able to get away with the shenanigans to the same extent.

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Re: Bitcoins - about to hit $5,000 per coin today!
« Reply #9740 on: July 15, 2023, 10:34:31 PM »
The reason Bitcoin is lagging today is because of the recent ESG ratings that came out for cryptos. Like it or not, ESG is a factor.

https://www.coindesk.com/markets/2023/07/13/ethereum-tops-new-crypto-esg-ranking-bitcoin-slammed-for-heavy-energy-usage/

dont make me laugh , this is just more shit coin dick suck , that gay little list doesnt change the fact that ethereum can disappear over night with the push of a button and bit coin is invincible/immortal

gib

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Re: Bitcoins - about to hit $5,000 per coin today!
« Reply #9741 on: July 16, 2023, 12:05:09 AM »
They haven't won, but shitcoinary won today.

Gib, A Judge in Ripple v SEC just ruled that shitcoin trading on exchanges is NOT an investment contract, so not a security (direct selling is the issue) just like I told you was the case many times. XRP is getting listed on coinbase right now.

Of course without dodgy exchanges and bad actors wash trading and manipulating shitcoin prices there may well be no x100 coins in the future as there will be no real volume, but that is a battle  for another day. Today you were comprehensively WRONG.


First of all I would say, there is no "win" here as the process is still well underway until we get to an ultimate court decision, as opposed to the opinion of a lower court.

Second, the court made it very clear that XRP is an illegal security. Ripple raised funds issuing an illegal security. That is what I explained here a number of times, and that was confirmed by the court.

The so-called "win" you are referring to, is that the court seemed to indicate that it is not a breach of certain securities laws for individuals not involved in the initial illegal issuance, to sell illegally issued securities to each other. This will obviously be appealed, and really commonsense and logic will dictate that obviously, it makes little sense for illegally issued securities to be "legally traded".

So for example, if I illegally make fake Channel handbags and sell those as the manufacturer, clearly that is illegal. Similarly, whilst not as "bad" it would still be illegal for aa buyer of such fake hang bags to sell them to others.

Further, on this aspect, there are numerous other laws and processes (apart from securities laws) (eg wire fraud, consumer protection laws, banking laws, class actions) which can (and will) be used, to take action against anyone who facilitated such trades or who engages in such trading. This is why most reputable institutions of any repute will never touch an alt / shit coin, and any exchange facilitating such trading is taking a huge risk, and why BTC will be the clear winner from all this.

Yes, there was a little pop in interest in XRP, which is not unlike Musk tweeting about doggies. Very short term blip, but really a load of nonsense and without logical basis...

gib

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Re: Bitcoins - about to hit $5,000 per coin today!
« Reply #9742 on: July 16, 2023, 12:07:06 AM »
Well if you zoom out 3 years then BTC is trailing ETH, BNB, XRP, SOL, DOGE.


Any small cap shitcoin can outperform BTC in the short term. That does not make shitcoins a good investment I have explained this earlier.  I could create a shit coin, and make one trade to a 3rd party, giving it a theoretical market cap of a Billion in a split second. So if you think shit coins are a good investment on this basis, then I have one to sell you... :)

gib

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Re: Bitcoins - about to hit $5,000 per coin today!
« Reply #9743 on: July 16, 2023, 12:14:49 AM »
ethereum can disappear over night with the push of a button and bit coin is invincible/immortal

Well said. I am surprised by how many people really don't  "get it". They are really just buying in their mind, a coin called "ETH" without ever really having considered the underlying tech (although maybe thinking they do. "Oh, but ETH is better than BTC as its used for smart contracts...").

Lessons will be learned, just like many many shitcoiners have hopefully learned already.

I can't believe how obvious it is that people still don't get it. All is poised for a MASSIVE boom in BTC as institutions globally (and increasingly some countries) are stealthily poising to accumulate and then promote and facilitate, what will very likely be the biggest wealth grab this century. Anyone here reading this has a HUGE OPPORTUNITY, if they just act now to secure their future. Once the race is on, there will be an insane chase to accumulate, pushing up a 100% limited supply of value which can be accumulates, and used, globally.

All the major players are just now jostling for the best position at the starting line. Meanwhile, Mr Anabolic is still angrily shaking his walking stick at storm clouds, angry at them for making it rain...

 

ROBOAK

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Re: Bitcoins - about to hit $5,000 per coin today!
« Reply #9744 on: July 16, 2023, 07:02:18 AM »
category A:   Ammunition,Gold,Cocaine,Bitcoin,Water


category B:  laundry mat token,arcade token,ethereum,car wash token,dogecoin

Flexacon

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Re: Bitcoins - about to hit $5,000 per coin today!
« Reply #9745 on: July 17, 2023, 12:02:43 AM »
First of all I would say, there is no "win" here as the process is still well underway until we get to an ultimate court decision, as opposed to the opinion of a lower court.

Second, the court made it very clear that XRP is an illegal security. Ripple raised funds issuing an illegal security. That is what I explained here a number of times, and that was confirmed by the court.

The so-called "win" you are referring to, is that the court seemed to indicate that it is not a breach of certain securities laws for individuals not involved in the initial illegal issuance, to sell illegally issued securities to each other. This will obviously be appealed, and really commonsense and logic will dictate that obviously, it makes little sense for illegally issued securities to be "legally traded".

So for example, if I illegally make fake Channel handbags and sell those as the manufacturer, clearly that is illegal. Similarly, whilst not as "bad" it would still be illegal for aa buyer of such fake hang bags to sell them to others.

Further, on this aspect, there are numerous other laws and processes (apart from securities laws) (eg wire fraud, consumer protection laws, banking laws, class actions) which can (and will) be used, to take action against anyone who facilitated such trades or who engages in such trading. This is why most reputable institutions of any repute will never touch an alt / shit coin, and any exchange facilitating such trading is taking a huge risk, and why BTC will be the clear winner from all this.

Yes, there was a little pop in interest in XRP, which is not unlike Musk tweeting about doggies. Very short term blip, but really a load of nonsense and without logical basis...

The court didn't seemingly indicate anything, they explicitly stated that tokens are separate and distinct from an investment contract, so on their own are not securities.



Also your Channel handbag analogy is off in this case. Here is a better one.

I manufacture handbags and Channel come to me and ask me to make one style of handbag exclusively for them and then ship them to their approved vendors. I do this, but I also decide to sell some of the Channel handbags myself. It is illegal but this doesn't make the Channel handbags I am selling or being resold "fake". HTH

gib

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Re: Bitcoins - about to hit $5,000 per coin today!
« Reply #9746 on: July 17, 2023, 01:47:40 AM »
Lol you are just trolling as usual. You know you are wrong, but others may not understand what you are doing in terms of how you post. So for those people who you might be actually confusing, and for you (if you really believe what you are are writing), here is a clipwe just published which explains. Check it out.


Flexacon

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Re: Bitcoins - about to hit $5,000 per coin today!
« Reply #9747 on: July 17, 2023, 02:07:51 AM »
Lol you are just trolling as usual. You know you are wrong, but others may not understand what you are doing in terms of how you post. So for those people who you might be actually confusing, and for you (if you really believe what you are are writing, here is a clipwe just published which explains. Check it out.



I've already posted what I thought about Ripple, XRP and the "pump". The video is basically saying the same thing just in more detail.

The ripple guys deserve to have the book thrown at them. As far as XRP goes it's maybe lost too much ground as a cryptocurrency and tradfi have been working on similar solutions. A shame as it might have been something special.

I think BTC was just lagging because the judgment in Ripple vs SEC was bullish only for alts. They were just making up some of the ground they lost. Normal service will resume with BTC leading.

My original post wasn't even directly about XRP or it's future. It was about tokenisation. It's you that's tried to make it about XRP after taking an L on the whole tokens being a security subject.

A token for trading is not automatically a security. This was the biggest argument for all ALTs being a security and it failed.

gib

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Re: Bitcoins - about to hit $5,000 per coin today!
« Reply #9748 on: July 17, 2023, 03:31:39 AM »
@Flex, selling unregistered shares is a felony. This has always been the case. And still is.

Its like guys to try to sell steroids calling them "research chems" or "pro-hormones". End of the day, laws will enforce on what they are, not what you call them.

Yes, there are exceptions to this rule. That has always been the case also. SEC Rule 144 lays out the conditions under which unregistered shares may be sold in cases such as these "tokens", almost none of which apply to most of the sales of XRP, or any other "tokens". For example, an exception exists if the seller is not associated with the company that issued the unregistered shares (and has not been associated with it for at least three months) and has owned the shares for more than one year, but very few "tokens" will have in reality traded in this manner.

The SEC is unlikely to go after individual sellers for now, but this does not make it "legal". Certainly, and an any case, just using commonsense, one would, for many obvious reasons, not want to be left "holding the bag" of illegally issued "tokens" as you call them (which is just a disguised term for what that are - illegal and unregistered securities). In the area of securities law, we apply a so-called "substance over form" test. In other words, a shit coin is a shit coin, not matter what you call it, and no matter how much lipstick you smear on the pig. :)

Flexacon

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Re: Bitcoins - about to hit $5,000 per coin today!
« Reply #9749 on: July 17, 2023, 03:30:28 PM »

The SEC is unlikely to go after individual sellers for now, but this does not make it "legal". Certainly, and an any case, just using commonsense, one would, for many obvious reasons, not want to be left "holding the bag" of illegally issued "tokens" as you call them (which is just a disguised term for what that are - illegal and unregistered securities). In the area of securities law, we apply a so-called "substance over form" test. In other words, a shit coin is a shit coin, not matter what you call it, and no matter how much lipstick you smear on the pig. :)

You are missing an important distinction here and that's that I didn't call them a token. The court opinionated Judge in the Ripple vs SEC case did.

Also as I posted earlier it was the court opinionated Judge, not me that explicitly stated that tokens are separate and distinct from an investment contract, so on their own they are not securities.

You can argue we me until you are blue in face, I could even eventually agree with you, but the fact will still remain that were wrong. Maybe you should contact Gensler and offer him your expertise to get this overturned. Because unless that happens the fact will remain that you were wrong.