Author Topic: BACK TRAINING  (Read 54623 times)

Luv2Hurt

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Re: BACK TRAINING
« Reply #50 on: September 13, 2007, 04:55:30 AM »
I used the weight assisted pull up machine to do wide grip negatives last night....three sets, first exercise. 
They are TOUGH! 
My arms were shaking lol.



Cool, there is this girl in our gym who very athletic, she would make a good BB wide shoulders, very nice shape and strong.  She does the wige grip chins, thumbless grip she uses like this big rubber band to help her.  wraps it around the pullup rack and her legs and this gives here an assist.

Teusday I did pull ups too first excersise for four sets and negatives the last 2.  Last set I did as many pullups as I could and then went right on the assisted machine for like 8 more, felt real nice.

Stay with those babys rip baby  :) tough for a reason.  This older dude walked by me as I was doing them and he said, "I dont see to many people doing pull ups, cause they are hard"  he's an old skool guy, which I like. 

Back to basics baby!  In the gym doing the shit no one else wants to do.  8)

ripitupbaby

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Re: BACK TRAINING
« Reply #51 on: September 14, 2007, 07:42:09 AM »
Cool, there is this girl in our gym who very athletic, she would make a good BB wide shoulders, very nice shape and strong.  She does the wige grip chins, thumbless grip she uses like this big rubber band to help her.  wraps it around the pullup rack and her legs and this gives here an assist.

Teusday I did pull ups too first excersise for four sets and negatives the last 2.  Last set I did as many pullups as I could and then went right on the assisted machine for like 8 more, felt real nice.

Stay with those babys rip baby  :) tough for a reason.  This older dude walked by me as I was doing them and he said, "I dont see to many people doing pull ups, cause they are hard"  he's an old skool guy, which I like. 

Back to basics baby!  In the gym doing the shit no one else wants to do.  8)



Ain't it the truth! 

Good idea with the rubber band, I will have to try that the next time I am struggling on my own to do the wide grip pullups. 

 :)

:)

The Squadfather

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Re: BACK TRAINING
« Reply #52 on: September 14, 2007, 08:22:31 AM »
chins are the only big basic movement that i don't believe in, do them for awhile and your rotators will look like hamburger in time, do pulldowns instead.

Thin Lizzy

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Re: BACK TRAINING
« Reply #53 on: September 14, 2007, 08:35:22 AM »
chins are the only big basic movement that i don't believe in, do them for awhile and your rotators will look like hamburger in time, do pulldowns instead.

Another problem is that, unless your gym has a gravitron machine, you're immediately jumping into a heavy set (your bodyweight) without a warmup.


ripitupbaby

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Re: BACK TRAINING
« Reply #54 on: September 14, 2007, 09:13:34 AM »
Another problem is that, unless your gym has a gravitron machine, you're immediately jumping into a heavy set (your bodyweight) without a warmup.



That IS a problem.  And of course, if you wait till later in your workout, you are fried and risk injury more. 

Pulldowns are a standard exercise in my back workouts, usually both wide grip and close grip, and occasionally underhanded. 
I am still undecided about chins, although I have been working them from time to time, and I like the negs on the gravitron A LOT.

:)

Chamorrita

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Re: BACK TRAINING
« Reply #55 on: September 24, 2007, 01:41:27 PM »
My training this morning:

Shoulder warm-up:  IR/ER, "L-rotations" w/5lb weight
Scapular retractions:  prone "YTWL" with thumbs up, 3x8
I need to thoroughly warm up the shoulders because I have issues with them.

Bent-over BB rows s/s with close-grip pull downs 4x12-15
Hammer Strength High Pulls s/s with standing low 1 arm cable rows (with 180 degree wrist rotation for RC work), 4x12-15
High throat pulls s/s with modified DL 3x12 (8-10 for DL)

abs

ripitupbaby

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Re: BACK TRAINING
« Reply #56 on: October 09, 2007, 04:03:09 AM »
I have decided to incorporate trap training into back day since I am not doing shoulder days anymore right now. 
Here's what I did last night...

-3 sets wide grip weight assisted pull ups
-4 sets Hammer strength lat pulldown followed by one more set of weight assisted wide pull ups
-4 sets Icarian low row cables with super wide grip (hits traps more), supersetted with DB shrugs 45 pounds
-3 sets close grip pull downs
-3 sets Nautilus compound row machine

I'm gonna try Cham's workout next time!

 :)
:)

Luv2Hurt

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Re: BACK TRAINING
« Reply #57 on: October 09, 2007, 04:42:52 AM »
I have decided to incorporate trap training into back day since I am not doing shoulder days anymore right now. 
Here's what I did last night...

-3 sets wide grip weight assisted pull ups
-4 sets Hammer strength lat pulldown followed by one more set of weight assisted wide pull ups
-4 sets Icarian low row cables with super wide grip (hits traps more), supersetted with DB shrugs 45 pounds
-3 sets close grip pull downs
-3 sets Nautilus compound row machine

I'm gonna try Cham's workout next time!

 :)

Trying to think what that Nautilus Row Machine is like, I thought they have cool ideas for machines.  Glad to see you are doing the pull ups, dont care what anybody says there is no substitute.  I think this might be it, looks very cool wish we had one.


ripitupbaby

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Re: BACK TRAINING
« Reply #58 on: October 09, 2007, 04:56:20 AM »
Trying to think what that Nautilus Row Machine is like, I thought they have cool ideas for machines.  Glad to see you are doing the pull ups, dont care what anybody says there is no substitute.  I think this might be it, looks very cool wish we had one.





Yep that's the one.   It's my favorite back machine.   8)


:)

Arnold jr

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Re: BACK TRAINING
« Reply #59 on: October 12, 2007, 10:49:06 PM »
OK, I've got a question. After reading through this thread it doesn't seem like anyone here really prioritizes more standard "thickness" back lifts. Not saying you guys don't do them, I'm sure "az" does...it just seems like things such as pull-ups, pull-downs and any variation of those is what you guys do for the bulk of your back training.

What about simple basic rows like BB and t-bar...2 of my favorites on back day and I always do one of them...not too much emphasis here on deads either...some but not much. Just curious as to what you guys think.

Anyway, I did back today, pretty standard back day for me...here's what it looked like:

T-bar row: 2 warm up, 3 working sets (actual BB, not one of those stupid machine set ups.)
Close-grip pull downs: 3 sets
Hammer seated row: 1 arm at a time 2 sets
Rack deads: 1 warm-up, set 3 working sets

On the deads, obviously I'm already warmed up but even so, I still usually always do one light set just to get a feel for it. As for doing them off the rack instead of the floor; I used to do them off the floor until about a year ago. Dave told me to stop doing them from the floor, and since I do whatever he says, lol, I do them from the rack now...just below the knee...I absolutely love these things...nothing sets my entire back on fire like these do.

One more thing, how about a little poll? Who here uses straps for back lifts? Put me down for Yes Straps!

freespirit

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Re: BACK TRAINING
« Reply #60 on: October 13, 2007, 02:55:10 AM »
Trying to think what that Nautilus Row Machine is like, I thought they have cool ideas for machines.  Glad to see you are doing the pull ups, dont care what anybody says there is no substitute.  I think this might be it, looks very cool wish we had one.



This is the one I use in 'my' gym:

http://www.panattasport.com/en/product.asp?ID=50134


Luv2Hurt

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Re: BACK TRAINING
« Reply #61 on: October 13, 2007, 06:41:52 AM »
OK, I've got a question. After reading through this thread it doesn't seem like anyone here really prioritizes more standard "thickness" back lifts. Not saying you guys don't do them, I'm sure "az" does...it just seems like things such as pull-ups, pull-downs and any variation of those is what you guys do for the bulk of your back training.

What about simple basic rows like BB and t-bar...2 of my favorites on back day and I always do one of them...not too much emphasis here on deads either...some but not much. Just curious as to what you guys think.

Anyway, I did back today, pretty standard back day for me...here's what it looked like:

T-bar row: 2 warm up, 3 working sets (actual BB, not one of those stupid machine set ups.)
Close-grip pull downs: 3 sets
Hammer seated row: 1 arm at a time 2 sets
Rack deads: 1 warm-up, set 3 working sets

On the deads, obviously I'm already warmed up but even so, I still usually always do one light set just to get a feel for it. As for doing them off the rack instead of the floor; I used to do them off the floor until about a year ago. Dave told me to stop doing them from the floor, and since I do whatever he says, lol, I do them from the rack now...just below the knee...I absolutely love these things...nothing sets my entire back on fire like these do.

One more thing, how about a little poll? Who here uses straps for back lifts? Put me down for Yes Straps!


Must not have read the whole thread bro, re-read page 1 we talk about rows and straps and all that good stuff.  As far as deads I dont like em, no reason for deadlifts in a BB routine IMO.  Will do stiff leg deads though once and a while they helped build my hams nicely.  :)

This is the one I use in 'my' gym:

http://www.panattasport.com/en/product.asp?ID=50134



Cool looking equipment spirit!

Arnold jr

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Re: BACK TRAINING
« Reply #62 on: October 13, 2007, 02:39:38 PM »
Must not have read the whole thread bro, re-read page 1 we talk about rows and straps and all that good stuff.  As far as deads I dont like em, no reason for deadlifts in a BB routine IMO.  Will do stiff leg deads though once and a while they helped build my hams nicely.  :)

 
Cool bro. I'll admit, I skimmed through this thread pretty fast and must have missed all that.

Why do you think deads have no place in a BB routine? Why would something that packs on a lot of thickness be a bad thing?

Luv2Hurt

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Re: BACK TRAINING
« Reply #63 on: October 13, 2007, 05:35:11 PM »
Cool bro. I'll admit, I skimmed through this thread pretty fast and must have missed all that.

Why do you think deads have no place in a BB routine? Why would something that packs on a lot of thickness be a bad thing?

Well tons of people do em, so what do I know.  See the thing is for me they would put thickness in my waist area and hips, not areas I want any thicker.  Also to be honest the potential for injury is high with that movement IMO. 

Like I said lots of guys and gals do em and if its working for you all than great!  They are hard work and I can appreciate that  :)

Arnold jr

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Re: BACK TRAINING
« Reply #64 on: October 13, 2007, 05:47:26 PM »
Well tons of people do em, so what do I know.  See the thing is for me they would put thickness in my waist area and hips, not areas I want any thicker.  Also to be honest the potential for injury is high with that movement IMO. 

Like I said lots of guys and gals do em and if its working for you all than great!  They are hard work and I can appreciate that  :)
You're right, but that's why I do them from the rack and not the floor anymore...lord knows I need all the help I can get in the waist area, lol.

You're also right about the injury statement. The only back area injury I've ever had was caused by deads from the floor...that and me being really stupid and trying to pull too much weight. Needless to say on that faithful day I did manage to get the weight up, but for what? It was 12 wks before I could do any heavy back work or any heavy legs stuff after that. I think that was back around 03 or so...just a little younger and a whole lot dumber!

Anyway, I still like doing the rack deads, but like you, hey what do I know? I'm not going to bust the balls of the almighty L2H...it looks like you're doing a pretty good job with your back deads or no deads. :)

Luv2Hurt

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Re: BACK TRAINING
« Reply #65 on: October 13, 2007, 06:12:25 PM »
LOL not almighty but getting there LOL  :D 

One thing I would like that deads give you are those big, strong erectors.  Man those really help in the back shots and for core strength.

I feel exercises like BB bent rows and t-bar rows help that area some too but probally not like DL.  You mentioned those exercises in your prior post.  I always feel that my back training is not complete unless I do one of those 2.  But sometimes will cable row, DB row (a really good move IMO) machine row or what ever.  But my core back work out is pullups and BB bent rows in that order.  always get sore from them. 

For me typically on back day I will alternate a pull up type move with a rowing move.  Like this, pull ups 4 sets, BB rows 4 sets, some other kind of pull down type move 4 sets. some type row 4 sets.  I do also like to do DB pullovers for my lats and serratus sometimes.

See the thing is I have trained back pretty heavy over the years and have a pretty good feel for my lats working.  But I'm not fully happy with the results.  I'm thinking back training is not all about the #'s and have been trying as of late to feel and contract the muscle as much as I can.  Still use as much weight as I can while feeling it.  Guess we will see how that works for a while.  Thats the fun of BB trying new things and seeing how they workout.

Arnold jr

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Re: BACK TRAINING
« Reply #66 on: October 13, 2007, 06:46:05 PM »
LOL not almighty but getting there LOL  :D 

One thing I would like that deads give you are those big, strong erectors.  Man those really help in the back shots and for core strength.

I feel exercises like BB bent rows and t-bar rows help that area some too but probally not like DL.  You mentioned those exercises in your prior post.  I always feel that my back training is not complete unless I do one of those 2.  But sometimes will cable row, DB row (a really good move IMO) machine row or what ever.  But my core back work out is pullups and BB bent rows in that order.  always get sore from them. 

For me typically on back day I will alternate a pull up type move with a rowing move.  Like this, pull ups 4 sets, BB rows 4 sets, some other kind of pull down type move 4 sets. some type row 4 sets.  I do also like to do DB pullovers for my lats and serratus sometimes.

See the thing is I have trained back pretty heavy over the years and have a pretty good feel for my lats working.  But I'm not fully happy with the results.  I'm thinking back training is not all about the #'s and have been trying as of late to feel and contract the muscle as much as I can.  Still use as much weight as I can while feeling it.  Guess we will see how that works for a while.  Thats the fun of BB trying new things and seeing how they workout.

That very well may work well for you. I'll throw this out there though for food for thought. A guy I used to train with who's been competing seriously for the last 10+yrs made a mistake of "lowering the weight." True, you should always have good enough control and be able to feel the muscle working but there has to be some cut off point as where you're not going as heavy as you should. Case in point, this guy I mentioned started purposely lowering his weights used on all exercises so as to get a better feel...at least that was the idea. It's not like his form was ever sloppy with the heavier weight either, so it was a pointless drop in weight IMO. Needless to say, his back and legs suffered a great deal of size loss over the past year...no suprise to me.

Major problem was IMO, he was listening to the wrong person. A pro natural BB who in my opinion is full of more shit then any human I've ever known. They became big buddies and so he did whatever this guy told him to. When things started going south, the "Pro ::)" started making outrageous claims as to why it was happening. I won't bore you with detail but I'm sure you see what I mean. I would love to drop this guys name and see what you all think about him or if any of you have ever met him. But I guess I want, cause that would make me as bad as all the idiots on this board who I hate, lol! One thing that I always found funny though, I used to contradict everything he said, usually by the way of stuff Dave told me...I even had Dave reply to an email for him concerning some stuff and Dave shot his crap straight down, lol. Needless to say, this "Pro ::)" absolutely hates my guts...no love lost here either.

Last thing, suprise suprise another Dave tid bit, he's often said, never ever purposely lower the weight not for anything except bad form or injury.

Anyway, sorry for the long rant ;D BTW, did I mention I don't like the "pro  ::)" in this little post?

ripitupbaby

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Re: BACK TRAINING
« Reply #67 on: October 13, 2007, 07:03:37 PM »
Wow, lots of good info in this thread, and I don't really disagree with any of it.   :D

I have not discovered yet what works best for me with my back.  I have a lot of detail in my back but could use some more thickness for sure. 

I too try to alternate between pull and row exercises on back day, and I am totally guilty of falling into a routine with my back and not really making much progress with the numbers.

-I would totally do the T bar row, but the one at my current gym sucks.  It squishes my chest and makes it hard to breathe.
-I do straight leg deads on leg day, and sometimes I also throw in a few sets of hyper extensions or lower back machine.  The straight legs focus more on the glutes and hammies, but I know my back gets hit quite a bit too.
-I am weary of back injury.  I crunched a disk doing dead lifts (bent legs, 225 pounds) a little over three years ago, and it took me out of the gym for 6 weeks, which isn't even really that long for a back injury.  So I don't like to take the numbers too high on those anymore, and I do them straight leg to take a little off the back.
-I definitely use straps but only on the chin ups and heavy pull downs.

I'm still unsure of what i am gonna do with my off-season back program, but I have some ideas.  Since I am in the powerlifting mode, I may change things up a bit pretty soon.

 :)
:)

Luv2Hurt

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Re: BACK TRAINING
« Reply #68 on: October 13, 2007, 09:16:21 PM »

-I would totally do the T bar row, but the one at my current gym sucks.  It squishes my chest and makes it hard to breathe.


Well rip its time to get midevil on that sh*t.  ;D

Maybe you can do this style of t-bar rows? 

These work the middle of the back and the lower lats very well.

Stick one end of an empty bar in a corner and load weight on the other end.  Straddle the bar with your back to the corner and keeping the legs slightly bent, bend forward at the waist and pick up the loaded end of the bar gripping just inside the collar. Alternatively, you can use a small "V-grip" handle placed under the bar.  Pull up and back as far as possible, then lower.

 


Arnold jr

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Re: BACK TRAINING
« Reply #69 on: October 13, 2007, 11:11:53 PM »
Well rip its time to get midevil on that sh*t.  ;D

Maybe you can do this style of t-bar rows? 

These work the middle of the back and the lower lats very well.

Stick one end of an empty bar in a corner and load weight on the other end.  Straddle the bar with your back to the corner and keeping the legs slightly bent, bend forward at the waist and pick up the loaded end of the bar gripping just inside the collar. Alternatively, you can use a small "V-grip" handle placed under the bar.  Pull up and back as far as possible, then lower.

 


Yep, this is the only way I'll do them. The padded thing rip mentioned, that's the thing I hate...like her, I can't breath using one of those.

As for the V-grip handle, that works really well...just make sure if you're a guy that you don't jerk to hard and let the handle slide down the bar...otherwise, you'll instantly and uncomfortably be transformed into a woman...I've seen this happen once, lol!

Might also add if you do them this way with the bar in the corner, make sure the empty end of the bar is secure and held down, or it can end up moving around a lot and bouncing. Luckily for me, my gym has a little floor attachment that you can stick the bar into just for t-bar rows.

freespirit

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Re: BACK TRAINING
« Reply #70 on: October 14, 2007, 02:47:22 AM »
Luckily for me, my gym has a little floor attachment that you can stick the bar into just for t-bar rows.

Is this what you mean:

Luv2Hurt

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Re: BACK TRAINING
« Reply #71 on: October 14, 2007, 06:01:12 AM »
Yep that what he means spirit, I have seen ones that look a little different but thats the thing.  I wish we did have one of those at my gym.  But I have found just jambing it in the corner to be fine.  Will admit the bar end holder is the way to go though.

Thing is I like to do t-bar rows in 2 places in our gym, we also have a regular t-bar row on the floor by Flex Fitness.  Its a pretty good one, not the best I have used but good.  The good thing about the t-bar row machine is it allows you to choose different hand positions, where in the bar in the corner method you are pretty much limited to a neutral hand position (palms facing each other) this hand position involes more biceps.  The t-bar row machine lets you pick a pronated hand position (palms down) which involves the biceps less. 

Would post a pic of it but their site has "been under construction"  for over a month now  ::)

ripitupbaby

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Re: BACK TRAINING
« Reply #72 on: October 14, 2007, 06:57:46 AM »
We don't have one of those bar attachments, but that looks pretty cool.  I've seen people using the barbell jammed into a corner with the V handle (close grip), but I have always been too lazy to set it up for myself.   :P
I'll give it a try.   8)
:)

Luv2Hurt

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Re: BACK TRAINING
« Reply #73 on: October 14, 2007, 07:13:28 AM »
We don't have one of those bar attachments, but that looks pretty cool.  I've seen people using the barbell jammed into a corner with the V handle (close grip), but I have always been too lazy to set it up for myself.   :P
I'll give it a try.   8)


Yes you will Missy! No excuses  :P  Or you know what..... ;)

ripitupbaby

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Re: BACK TRAINING
« Reply #74 on: October 14, 2007, 07:15:54 AM »
Yes you will Missy! No excuses  :P  Or you know what..... ;)


LOL stop making me so conflicted about what to do!   :D

Back day is in the early part of the week, so I'll give it a go.   :)

:)