Spitzer Is Linked to Prostitution Ring

[Dos Equis]

I disagree.

Because BB, constructs his arguments well if you are not in a insult match with him and because of that i learn how and why easily half the population of America sides with Bush.   BB, is a more of a practical conservative and not the traditional stupid brainwashed sort you find on this board from time to time.

Thanks mang. 

[Straw Man]

And yet he is still in line to inherit his fathers half a billion dollar fortune.  [sniff sniff]  I don't really need anything to satisfy my outrage, other than time.  He will slink off into the sunset, become a footnote, and be replaced by the next hypocrite in a few months.  

But I would like to see him spend some time in prison.    

why mention the fathers money?

he's got that either way

it just makes you look petty and jealous

I'm really just trying to understand why you feel such outrage

for consensual sex

between two adults

for MONEY

why is that so high on your list of stuff that makes you feel outraged?

[Straw Man]

I disagree.

Because BB, constructs his arguments well if you are not in a insult match with him and because of that i learn how and why easily half the population of America sides with Bush.   BB, is a more of a practical conservative and not the traditional stupid brainwashed sort you find on this board from time to time.

with the least amount of offense possible to BB

I think you've got it completely backwards

[24KT]

He doesn't recognize the a moral hypocrisies in the BUSH administration therefore he needs not reconcile it.  That's why asking him your question is stupid. 

I suppose that's one way to avoid the issue entirely.

Stick to the subject without playground spin attemps.

No attempt at "playground spin" here. I seriously can't see such a reconciliation for someone who is thinking clearly.

I disagree.

Because BB, constructs his arguments well if you are not in a insult match with him and because of that i learn how and why easily half the population of America sides with Bush.

We must be looking at 2 different boards forums or refering to 2 different BB's. {sigh}

BB, is a more of a practical conservative and not the traditional stupid brainwashed sort you find on this board from time to time.

I agree with the first part, ...practical he is. IMO practical to the point of hypocrisy and beyond.

As for the 2^nd part of that sentence, I couldn't disagree with your assessment of him more strongly.

[OzmO]

with the least amount of offense possible to BB

I think you've got it completely backwards

You've gone round and round and toe to toe with him.  Some of your debates have fallen only name calling.  (not saying that as if you or him are any lesser for it) But i see him differently becuase of 2 things:

-  While get into heated exchanges with him, we never regress to insults, we in the end agree that we disagree usually.
-  I've also seen BB admit he voted for Clinton, something a staunch twisted neo-con would never do or at least admit to, he opposed wiretapping on American citizens without a judge approval and this latest one about dna swabs on traffic stops to find a serial killer in Wisconsin he was appalled with.  He also admits the war has been handled poorly and grossly mismanaged before the surge. 

Now i challenge you to get Brixbulldog to admit to that crap with out lying to win the argument.

That's some of the reason i call him a practical conservative, now he may have other quirks regarding morality in society, but i implore you to look at it from his POV a little:   He has 3 daughters.  I have one.  I totally understand where's he's coming from when it comes to abstinence and abortion even though i don't agree on the detail level, but i do agree in general.

[OzmO]

I suppose that's one way to avoid the issue entirely.

No attempt at "playground spin" here. I seriously can't see such a reconciliation for someone who is thinking clearly.

If you are going to bring up a hypocrisy by relating the morality of punishing a hypocrite who committed a crime with an opinion of immorality by the BUSH administration then you better be fair and bring all the other hypocrisies in the world in all the areas possible.  The list will be in the millions.  that's why trying to bring up BUSH is a "trollish spin".   

Just start another thread if you want to talk about BUSH and his hypocrisy.  This is about a hypocrite that got caught and should be punished.  Wage your BUSH crap elsewhere.

We must be looking at 2 different boards forums or refering to 2 different BB's. {sigh}

yeah,  maybe you should take a poll about it or something. 

[24KT]

You've round and round and toe to toe with him.  Some of your debates have fallen only name calling.  (not saying that as if you or him are any lesser for it) But i see him differently becuase of 2 things:

-  While get into heated exchanges with him, we never regress to insults, we in the end agree that we disagree usually.
-  I've also seen BB admit he voted for Clinton, something a staunch twisted neo-con would never do or at least admit to, he opposed wiretapping on American citizens without a judge approval and this latest one about dna swabs on traffic stops to find a serial killer in Wisconsin he was appalled with.  He also admits the war has been handled poorly and grossly mismanaged before the surge. 

Now i challenge you to get Brixbulldog to admit to that crap with out lying to win the argument.

That's some of the reason i call him a practical conservative, now he may have other quirks regarding morality in society, but i implore you to look at it from his POV a little:   He has 3 daughters.  I have one.  I totally understand where's he's coming from when it comes to abstinence and abortion even though i don't agree on the detail level, but i do agree in general.

OK, you've backed up your argument well.

For me what I see is someone with a complete disconnect when it comes to the issue of "morality".
For some strange reason, it appears that in his mind 'morality' is all about sex. Almost as if one can kill & maim indiscriminately, ...as long as one doesn't have illicit sex. He seems to have an incredible over-fascination with anything sexual.

If you are going to bring up a hypocrisy by relating the morality of punishing a hypocrite who committed a crime with an opinion of immorality by the BUSH administration then you better be fair and bring all the other hypocrisies in the world in all the areas possible.  The list will be in the millions.  that's why trying to bring up BUSH is a "trollish spin".

There is no "trollish spin" I bring up Bush because he appears to blindly support him. I realize there are millions of other hypocrisies in the world, but I don't hear him championing any of those. I do see him championing Bush, while condemning Spitzer. Moral outrage? Good grief. There are plenty of things far more worthy of moral outrage than a hypocrite who was forced to step down in disgrace   

Just start another thread if you want to talk about BUSH and his hypocrisy.  This is about a hypocrite that got caught and should be punished.  Wage your BUSH crap elsewhere.

You're missing the point completely. Whether it's through the inability to see my point, or expedient 'practicality' I don't know. But my post was not about Bush, but rather about Beaches ability to condemn Spitzer so fiercely to the point of "MORAL OUTRAGE", while at the same time be able to champion Bush. I wanted to know how he reconciled the two. But as you said, ...he certainly is "practical" 

yeah,  maybe you should take a poll about it or something. 

No need for a poll.

[Straw Man]

You've gone round and round and toe to toe with him.  Some of your debates have fallen only name calling.  (not saying that as if you or him are any lesser for it) But i see him differently becuase of 2 things:

-  While get into heated exchanges with him, we never regress to insults, we in the end agree that we disagree usually.
-  I've also seen BB admit he voted for Clinton, something a staunch twisted neo-con would never do or at least admit to, he opposed wiretapping on American citizens without a judge approval and this latest one about dna swabs on traffic stops to find a serial killer in Wisconsin he was appalled with.  He also admits the war has been handled poorly and grossly mismanaged before the surge. 

Now i challenge you to get Brixbulldog to admit to that crap with out lying to win the argument.

That's some of the reason i call him a practical conservative, now he may have other quirks regarding morality in society, but i implore you to look at it from his POV a little:   He has 3 daughters.  I have one.  I totally understand where's he's coming from when it comes to abstinence and abortion even though i don't agree on the detail level, but i do agree in general.

I've re-read this thread and I don't see where I've simply called BB names.  I do see myself responding to his statemets and sometimes disagreeing and also sometimes acknowledging he might be right.   I also see myself asking questions to BB to try to clarify his feeling of moral outrage only to see him completely avoid debate or dialogue.

Here's the part I don't get.  You've correctly pointed out that BB simply doesn't (or refuses to)  recognize certain inconsistencies  yet you somehow don't see why this would make almost all true dialogue with him on this and other topics completely POINTLESS

Somehow you've concluded that I'm stupid for trying to have an adult discussion with someone who's main tactic is to put his hands over his ears whenever he hears something he doesn't agree with


 

He doesn't recognize the a moral hypocrisies in the BUSH administration therefore he needs not reconcile it.  That's why asking him your question is stupid. 

Stick to the subject without playground spin attemps.

[OzmO]

I've re-read this thread and I don't see where I've simply called BB names.  I do see myself responding to his statemets and sometimes disagreeing and also sometimes acknowledging he might be right.   I also see myself asking questions to BB to try to clarify his feeling of moral outrage only to see him completely avoid debate or dialogue.

I wasn't talking about this thread.  I seem to recall you guys in heated exchanges in other threads doing that.  I might be wrong and apologize if it gave either of you offense.

Here's the part I don't get.  You've correctly pointed out that BB simply doesn't (or refuses to)  recognize certain inconsistencies  yet you somehow don't see why this would make almost all true dialogue with him on this and other topics completely POINTLESS

That's not what I'm saying.  BB, doesn't draw the same conclusions about BUSH.  It's a matter of opinion more than fact as our opinions influence what deem as moral or not moral.  Asking BB, to compare to "moral outrageous" between BUSH and spitzer is like asking him to comment on the state of fruit between Kale and oranges.

I completely disagree with on the matters.  But if you want to debate on the BUSH hypocrisy, debate directly to it, not by comparing something he doesn't even recognize as a fruit.

I know that sounds dumb, but I'm eating an orange right now and i had kale last night.  they are both in season in Cali 

Somehow you've concluded that I'm stupid for trying to have an adult discussion with someone who's main tactic is to put his hands over his ears whenever he hears something he doesn't agree with

Where have i done that?   It wasn't my intention at all.  It's just stupid to discuss that with him becuase he doesn't agree to the initial premise.

[Straw Man]

Ozmo,

I never mentioned Bush in this thread.  I did question BB moral outrage (his words) over such a stupid and insignificant crime and attempted to get some sense of exactly how his outrage scale is calibrated

   

do you really feel morally outRAGED about this?

seriously?

I'm not going to go off on a liberal rant but I can think of a few more things I feel outraged about before this

[OzmO]

Ozmo,

I never mentioned Bush in this thread.  I did question BB moral outrage (his words) over such a stupid and insignificant crime and attempted to get some sense of exactly how his outrage scale is calibrated

   

I see.

The post of mine you commented on was in response to jags thing about bush and spitzer.   

It's all good man.   

[Straw Man]

No worries.

I do find it interesting how so many threads that involve BB wind up becoming thread about BB, specifically his peculiar way of shutting down a dialogue when confronted with questions that attempt to understand his way of thinking.

Regarding the Spitzer situation.  No one was killed or maimed.  It has virtually no impact on anyone outside the small group of people who are involved.   By far, the primary recipient of the damage was the person who created the situation.


   

[OzmO]

No worries.

I do find it interesting how so many threads that involve BB wind up becoming thread about BB, specifically his peculiar way of shutting down a dialogue when confronted with questions that attempt to understand his way of thinking.

Regarding the Spitzer situation.  No one was killed or maimed.  It has virtually no impact on anyone outside the small group of people who are involved.   By far, the primary recipient of the damage was the person who created the situation.


   

Yeah,  i see that sometimes.

For Spitzer, If it comes out that all he did was have sex with a hooker, he should get what ever punishment an ordinary person should get at the very least.   A weekend in jail and the some community service weekends wouldn't be bad...

However, if this rich self righteous prick gets the full weight of punishment possible i won't complain.

[Straw Man]

Yeah,  i see that sometimes.

For Spitzer, If it comes out that all he did was have sex with a hooker, he should get what ever punishment an ordinary person should get at the very least.   A weekend in jail and the some community service weekends wouldn't be bad...

However, if this rich self righteous prick gets the full weight of punishment possible i won't complain.

I think a lot of people are with you on this one.

The arrogance and stupidity are stunning but that's pretty much all I feel about it. 

He has been publicly humiliated, lost his job, probably did severe damage to his relationship with his wife and kids, and most likely fucked up his entire future. 

Most average people in his situation don't suffer as much but then again then again I guess the bigger you are the harder you fall.

My moral outrage is reserved for things like this:  http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/middle_east/7299914.stm

[Deedee]

Yeah,  i see that sometimes.

For Spitzer, If it comes out that all he did was have sex with a hooker, he should get what ever punishment an ordinary person should get at the very least.   A weekend in jail and the some community service weekends wouldn't be bad...

However, if this rich self righteous prick gets the full weight of punishment possible i won't complain.

Interesting. A few of you seem to have that opinion, and Beach is morally outraged to boot.  I'm intrigued as to why, all of a sudden, anyone would care about what a politician does with a whore.

Politics and prostitution go hand in hand, both on a metaphorical level, as well as in a very real way.  All you have to do is google sex scandal + world or politician and you'll end up with an astonishing list.  Summer 2007 seems to have been a particularly busy period worldwide for such political pecadillos and sexual faux pas.

Maybe politicians do see themselves as above the law.  Perhaps it's a "peer group pressure" thing and you can't be part of the old boys' club if you don't partake in the "perks."  Maybe certain politicians who have wives that also function in a work/advisory capacity feel sexually turned off by that, and just plain long for a night here and there to be a man in the manly sense.

People say the Bush administration shouldn't be brought into it, but leaving the obvious Iraq war issue out of it, there was this skanky incident with a certain gay hustler cum political journalist Jeff Gannon.  Who in their right minds believes this guy had daily access to the white house because of his press "credentials?"  Like some illegal sexual activity wasn't covered up there!  And what about Jack Kennedy and the abundance of whores he had tracking through the white house any given week? It is said that old Joe paid Jackie one million to stay with that president who ALSO apparently couldn't keep it in his pants.  Does anyone revile him for it?  No. Those are just two minor examples.  If it's tolerated and covered up at the white house level, why are people indignant when it trickles down elsewhere?

Spitzer pissed off a lot of people who are laughing now. He played the moral high ground, then got caught in the gutter with his pantaloons around his ankles.  So what.  It happens every day.  Why should he be punished any more than any other ho-purchasing politician john?

 

[Dos Equis]

why mention the fathers money?

he's got that either way

it just makes you look petty and jealous

I'm really just trying to understand why you feel such outrage

for consensual sex

between two adults

for MONEY

why is that so high on your list of stuff that makes you feel outraged?

I mentioned his money to put your comments about his so-called punishment in context.  Yes he resigned in disgrace, but he's still one of the wealthiest men in the country.  If you're going to claim that losing his job is some sort of extreme punishment then (if you're being reasonable) you have to consider the fact he will simply fly off into the sunset to spend his millions. 

I didn't rank my level of outrage and don't have a list.  But nice try.

I know you like to repeatedly ask me the same question and get frustrated when I quit answering it, but regarding why I think this is outrageous, I've already explained why in this thread:

I don't want to start repeating myself, but we (not surprisingly) just view this differently.  IMO, it is the height of hypocrisy and morally outrageous for a law enforcement officer to prosecute a crime and engage in that very crime himself, at any level.  Even if he only prosecuted pimps and not johns, the fact is he still enabled pimps to continue their business by being a patron.  He was prosecuting a criminal organization and feeding that organization at the same time.  Even more egregious to do it as governor after being AG.   

Of course.  Why do you need to rank your level of outrage?  I can think of things more morally outrageous than this, but that doesn't change how I view this man's conduct.  This guy was a lawyer, former AG who prosecuted the same crime he is accused of engaging in, governor, husband, wife of three teenaged daughters, and someone who preached morality from his bully pulpit.

IMO, if we get to the point where our society is not outraged by this, we are in serious trouble.     

[Dos Equis]

I do find it interesting how so many threads that involve BB wind up becoming thread about BB

Me too. 

[Straw Man]

Bum,

The reason I'm forced to ask you the same questions is because you repeatedly dodge the question or veer off on tangent or purely semantic argument.

If I have any frustration it's that I keep forgetting that it's almost always pointless to try to engage you a real discusion

Your mention of his fathers money is irrelevent to the argument but it does highlight your pettiness.

[Straw Man]

Me too. 

Don't forget this part:

No worries.

I do find it interesting how so many threads that involve BB wind up becoming thread about BB, specifically his peculiar way of shutting down a dialogue when confronted with questions that attempt to understand his way of thinking.   

[Dos Equis]

Bum,

The reason I'm forced to ask you the same questions is because you repeatedly dodge the question or veer off on tangent or purely semantic argument.

If I have any frustration it's that I keep forgetting that it's almost always pointless to try to engage you a real discusion

Your mention of his fathers money is irrelevent to the argument but it does highlight your pettiness.

Easy solution.  Don't engage me.   

[Straw Man]

Easy solution.  Don't engage me.   

my point exactly

You're a mod who actually shuts down a discussion

Why bother

[Dos Equis]

my point exactly

You're a mod who actually shuts down a discussion

Why bother

lol.  Riiight.  What happens is when you start acting like a fool, I either clown around right along with you, or simply leave you (or anyone who does this) alone.  If you ever want to have an intelligent exchange, then I have no problem with that.  If you want to veer off topic and start trying to make me the focus of the discussion, ad hominem, acting like a frustrated kid, etc. then don't start crying when the conversation deteriorates.  Also, I don’t need to have the last word in any discussion. 

And I'll repeat:  if you're unable to have an exchange without all the insults, etc. and don't like my style, then quit engaging me.  But I'm about done on this part of the discussion, because I'd rather this thread be about the colossal hypocrite who left his office today and hopefully will spend some time in a federal detention center.     

[Straw Man]

lol.  Riiight.  What happens is when you start acting like a fool, I either clown around right along with you, or simply leave you (or anyone who does this) alone.  If you ever want to have an intelligent exchange, then I have no problem with that.  If you want to veer off topic and start trying to make me the focus of the discussion, ad hominem, acting like a frustrated kid, etc. then don't start crying when the conversation deteriorates.  Also, I don’t need to have the last word in any discussion. 

And I'll repeat:  if you're unable to have an exchange without all the insults, etc. and don't like my style, then quit engaging me.  But I'm about done on this part of the discussion, because I'd rather this thread be about the colossal hypocrite who left his office today and hopefully will spend some time in a federal detention center.     

try to get this into that house of mirrors inside your skull.

1.  A dialogue starts

2.  Somewhere along the way you invariably make a comment that seems odd or just something that others would like to understand better

3. When questioned by me or others for some clarification or some additional context or perspective you more often than not start playing word games, avoiding the question, pretend you don't understand the question (your favorite I think) or re-state the question in a way that  alters the original point and then pretend that you've addressed the original question

You prove repeatedly that it's POINTLESS to try to treat you like an adult and engage you in dialogue.

It's too bad that you can't understand (or pretend not to understand) this point.

It's been explained to you by myself and others on more than one occassion

[24KT]

try to get this into that house of mirrors inside your skull.

1.  A dialogue starts

2.  Somewhere along the way you invariably make a comment that seems odd or just something that others would like to understand better

3. When questioned by me or others for some clarification or some additional context or perspective you more often than not start playing word games, avoiding the question, pretend you don't understand the question (your favorite I think) or re-state the question in a way that  alters the original point and then pretend that you've addressed the original question

You prove repeatedly that it's POINTLESS to try to treat you like an adult and engage you in dialogue.

It's too bad that you can't understand (or pretend not to understand) this point.

It's been explained to you by myself and others on more than one occassion

Not entirely pointless. Some good does come from it I suppose.
It does allow others who read this board to easily recognize him for what he is.

[Dos Equis]

 

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=434206055689898941&q=love+client+no.+9&total=4504&start=0&num=10&so=0&type=search&plindex=0