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Getbig Bodybuilding Boards => Steroids Info & Hardcore => Topic started by: DIVISION on November 06, 2006, 07:33:10 PM
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For those of you who have tried both in separate cycles, how would you compare the feel of them?
Which felt better?
Stronger?
Smoother?
Explain which you prefer and why.
Experienced vets only please!
DIV
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Although I've only used sust, the only big difference seems to be price. I'm not very familiar with the caproate ester it has in its mix, but from my understanding it is not much different from the deconate in sust...though I could be off base on this assumption.
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Although I've only used sust, the only big difference seems to be price. I'm not very familiar with the caproate ester it has in its mix, but from my understanding it is not much different from the deconate in sust...though I could be off base on this assumption.
I know what the difference is between the two, Arnold.
I didn't ask that.
I asked for comments from those people who have used them both.
DIV
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I have tried them both. depends on who makes the sust like organon or karachi. i found that sust seemed more stronger then omnadren but i only took it for like 4 weeks cause my body didnt like it very much.So i switched to test E and i havent went back.
But in my opinion I would say the sust is alot stronger then the omnadren.
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I was going to answer but Im not a vet ;D
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tried both found that sust is much better although i do get sust flu pretty bad on it and i dont get that with omnadren. also around me omnadren is cheaper and easier to get. if i had a choice though it would be sust b/c of the size and strength i got was much more at the same dose with omnadren.
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I was going to answer but Im not a vet ;D
If you've run more than seven, eight, ten cycles.....you're a vet.
DIV
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If you've run more than seven, eight, ten cycles.....you're a vet.
DIV
You might want to add this, 7-10 good cycles, this does not include the several bull-shit cycles many people often run before they learn the proper way.
tried both found that sust is much better although i do get sust flu pretty bad on it and i dont get that with omnadren. also around me omnadren is cheaper and easier to get. if i had a choice though it would be sust b/c of the size and strength i got was much more at the same dose with omnadren.
What kind of dose are we talking about? Were the cycles identical other then the type of test?
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That sucks
Im a vet with the United States Army
but
I cant be a vet on here.....
Oh well 6 more to go..
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You might want to add this, 7-10 good cycles, this does not include the several bull-shit cycles many people often run before they learn the proper way.
What kind of dose are we talking about? Were the cycles identical other then the type of test?
yes both cycles were 750 ew test, 400ew deca, 50mg d-bol ed
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You might want to add this, 7-10 good cycles, this does not include the several bull-shit cycles many people often run before they learn the proper way.
Well.......
I suppose I didn't specify what I consider a cycle.
I'm not talking to the idiots who think running D-bol @ 50MG ed for four weeks is a cycle. ::)
A "cycle" would be something like:
Week 1-4 Anadrol 50MG ed
Week 5-12 Winstrol 75MG ed
Week 1-12 Sustanon 500MG ew
Week 1-12 Deca 300MG ew
Week 11-16 Tren 100MG ed
Week 13-16 Test Prop. 500MG ew
Week 1-16 HCG 500IU e4d
Week 1-16 Arimidex 1MG eod
Now that's a good example of a cycle.
DIV
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Bump up the test/deca a little, drop the a-bombs, and that's music to my ears, er ah, I mean muscles. ;D
OK Div, I'll stop highjacking your thread. ;)
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Bump up the test/deca a little, drop the a-bombs, and that's music to my ears, er ah, I mean muscles. ;D
OK Div, I'll stop highjacking your thread. ;)
That's an example of the type of moderate cycle I'd give to someone who's had some experience with AAS.
The dosages can be altered, but the idea is the same.
Layered, stacked, smart.....
DIV
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The new omna's are the same identical formula as sustanon 250; I've used (in the past) omna (old formula) , nile's , kerachi's and the original (and THE BEST) Russian Cyctahoh 250's. Personally, I've had bad-mediocre results with Nile's.. got sick once, I consider nile's an inferior product.. kerachi's are top grade (since the indian made russian cyctahoh's are impossible to get these days and mostly counterfeited) strength wise, the old omna was a workhorse.. definetly stronger then sust (in terms of sides as well) more water, more bloat, etc. But now.. it's basically the same formula, either way now I won't touch anything but kerachi (never had any problems with them and flu was mild at most)
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The new omna's are the same identical formula as sustanon 250; I've used (in the past) omna (old formula) , nile's , kerachi's and the original (and THE BEST) Russian Cyctahoh 250's. Personally, I've had bad-mediocre results with Nile's.. got sick once, I consider nile's an inferior product.. kerachi's are top grade (since the indian made russian cyctahoh's are impossible to get these days and mostly counterfeited) strength wise, the old omna was a workhorse.. definetly stronger then sust (in terms of sides as well) more water, more bloat, etc. But now.. it's basically the same formula, either way now I won't touch anything but kerachi (never had any problems with them and flu was mild at most)
Give me an idea of how much better the Karachis felt than the Niles.
Is it like comparing Organon Sustanon to a UG in terms of the drop-off in quality or less?
Do you think it's that Niles are the standard and Karachis are just overdosed or that Niles are just substandard to begin with?
Remember, both are Organon and both are pharmaceutical grade.
DIV
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I know both are governed by Organon and pharma grade, the Niles just felt dirtier like the quality control wasn't as high.. this is twice that I've done niles years apart from completely different sources.. other friends I've talked to said similar things as well that niles are lower grade sust. Kerachi's just seem to be cleaner and have better quality control.. I don't think dosing was as much of an issue. In the end I had a much smoother and better time everytime I've ran Kerachi's, I will personally never run Niles again, I consider them inferior and lower grade.And in all honesty I've used a lot (mainly QV!!) UG products that were WAYYYYYY better then Nile's.
Give me an idea of how much better the Karachis felt than the Niles.
Is it like comparing Organon Sustanon to a UG in terms of the drop-off in quality or less?
Do you think it's that Niles are the standard and Karachis are just overdosed or that Niles are just substandard to begin with?
Remember, both are Organon and both are pharmaceutical grade.
DIV
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Another thing to remember is the Niles are VERY often counterfeited. Thats another reason I don't like sust most of it is counterfeit. You better really know your source with that stuff.
Agree i did not think much at all of the Nile sust I did this year.....it was the only test I could get at the time.
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I was getting my Niles right from the plant in egypt... they were 100% real, just garbage.. I'll never do them again, I'm going on Kerachi's in a few weeks as part of my winter blitz...Mmmm... kerachi's and turanabol :) :) :)
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I know both are governed by Organon and pharma grade, the Niles just felt dirtier like the quality control wasn't as high.. this is twice that I've done niles years apart from completely different sources.. other friends I've talked to said similar things as well that niles are lower grade sust. Kerachi's just seem to be cleaner and have better quality control.. I don't think dosing was as much of an issue. In the end I had a much smoother and better time everytime I've ran Kerachi's, I will personally never run Niles again, I consider them inferior and lower grade.And in all honesty I've used a lot (mainly QV!!) UG products that were WAYYYYYY better then Nile's.
That's depressing to hear, because when you consider that the Organon brand is producing both of them you'd think quality control would not be an issue.
Even more, it's actually Abbott Labs in Pakistan that produces Karachi Sustanon, just that it's liscensed from Organon.
Subcontracted out, in other words.
Another thing to remember is the Niles are VERY often counterfeited. Thats another reason I don't like sust most of it is counterfeit. You better really know your source with that stuff.
Agree i did not think much at all of the Nile sust I did this year.....it was the only test I could get at the time.
Karachi Sustanon is impossible to counterfeit because it has the date of expiration laser printed directly on the glass amp in addition to the stamped date on the box, which is in a different ink than the rest of the printing.
Trying to counterfeit those would be like trying to fake the Mexican Sostenon redijects. Too much money to even attempt it.
The Niles, on the other hand, are often faked.
DIV
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For those of you who have tried both in separate cycles, how would you compare the feel of them?
Which felt better?
Stronger?
Smoother?
Explain which you prefer and why.
Experienced vets only please!
DIV
I've run both. And I've run different types of Sustanon. To be honest, I've never noticed any differences between the two. I rarely run multi esther test the last few years, however.
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I've run both. And I've run different types of Sustanon. To be honest, I've never noticed any differences between the two. I rarely run multi esther test the last few years, however.
I'm getting some Niles very soon, and I'll be seeing for myself if they feel different.
Haven't heard anything positive....
DIV
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I've tried both, and never noticed a difference at all. Since I went on HRT I get my gear directly from a pharmacy, and honestly, it's no better or worse than the stuff I used to get from underground labs or on the black market.
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I've tried both, and never noticed a difference at all. Since I went on HRT I get my gear directly from a pharmacy, and honestly, it's no better or worse than the stuff I used to get from underground labs or on the black market.
Thats a very intresting thought, I on the other hand notice a huge difference between the 2.
Sustanon makes me more agressive, stronger and stings after a shot.
Omnidren doesn't sting and I really don't get the same aggression/strength from it.
Very strange, but once again it shows how different drugs affect different people.
KARACHI RULES
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The difference is simple - price.
The old Omnadren was alittle better for bulking because of one ester difference ad more pronounced water retention. But of course that was easily prevented with Nolvadex/Proviron or Arimidex.
Currently both Sustanon and Omnadren are identical, but I agree with previous post that Nile, Karachi, Mexican should not be trusted because altough they are under Organon brand name, being manufactured in third wolrd country makes quality control very questionable. Omnadren is the way to go as fakes are very uncommon being that the price of one amp in Poland is less than a dollar and easily available. Also Poland has very high quality products and very tight drug quality control.
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If you knew what you were talking about DIV you would know the new Omnadren is basiclly the same compounds as sustanon 250. Seriously you are the worst moderators of all time! No one should ever get there cycle advice here! Ever! You act like you know but Ive seen your pic bro. You look terrible! Bwaaa!
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If you knew what you were talking about DIV you would know the new Omnadren is basiclly the same compounds as sustanon 250. Seriously you are the worst moderators of all time! No one should ever get there cycle advice here! Ever! You act like you know but Ive seen your pic bro. You look terrible! Bwaaa!
If you have a problem with this board, why do you post here?
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If you knew what you were talking about DIV you would know the new Omnadren is basiclly the same compounds as sustanon 250. Seriously you are the worst moderators of all time! No one should ever get there cycle advice here! Ever! You act like you know but Ive seen your pic bro. You look terrible! Bwaaa!
Even though it may be the same compounds, not always do you get the same feel from the drug. Just as every person does not get the same affects of AAS as the next person does taking it. In reality if you had any experience in the game you would understand both of the points I have made above.
As far as DIV, him and Arnold Jr. are were they are because they have the experience to be there. I mean really do you feel you could do a better job? Obviously others disagree or you would be asked to be a mod. The mods here offer some good solid advice, and as the rest of us are, they still are human and have questions to further there knowledge in the game.
Before you speak next time, think of what you write and make sense of it, because I just see Bullshit falling from your mouth.
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Currently both Sustanon and Omnadren are identical, but I agree with previous post that Nile, Karachi, Mexican should not be trusted because altough they are under Organon brand name, being manufactured in third wolrd country makes quality control very questionable. Omnadren is the way to go as fakes are very uncommon being that the price of one amp in Poland is less than a dollar and easily available. Also Poland has very high quality products and very tight drug quality control.
Sustanon and Omnadren are not identical....one ester is different.
I think it's ignorant to assume that any of the Organon Sustanons manufactured in foreign countries are somehow lower in quality.
The Karachi Sustanon have a good rep, while the Niles do not.
I've never seen a fake Karachi, but I know that Niles are faked.
Doubtful that the Mexican redijects are faked, too expensive.
All things being equal, I'd take the Sustanon unless the Omnadren are dirt cheap.
If you knew what you were talking about DIV you would know the new Omnadren is basiclly the same compounds as sustanon 250. Seriously you are the worst moderators of all time! No one should ever get there cycle advice here! Ever! You act like you know but Ive seen your pic bro. You look terrible! Bwaaa!
The same compounds except that Omnadren contains testosterone caproate, while Sustanon contains testosterone decanoate. The deca releases much faster which is why Omnadren is said to have a higher incidence of water retention. I'd say that's a pretty substantial difference.
I've never posted a pic, because it would be pretty stupid to do so on a site like this considering I openly admit to using AAS without prescription.
Even though it may be the same compounds, not always do you get the same feel from the drug. Just as every person does not get the same affects of AAS as the next person does taking it.
Exactly.
I can describe in detail how every anabolic compound feels when I run it, and what it does to my body, but will it really help the next guy whose genetics are different than mine?
Probably not.......
All we have are correlations and common sides to compare.
DIV
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Division you know it amazes me when someone DOESNT know something yet acts like he does. I never say things unless I am 100% sure of what I say.
Back to Omnadrev vs Sustanon. For the past couple of years (2 or 3 not sure exactly) Omnadren has been identical to Sustanon. There was one ester difference before but no more. They are the same. Exactly the same. I was in Poland this summer and swa both the old and the new Omnadren. Dont be a fool and argue if you dont know something. Omnadren grey paper labels that are importated to Russia and Ukraine (new bottles) can be see on some boards too. Also altough I cant provide you with proof myself (for personal reasons) I'll be more than happy to give you a contact of sales rep from Jelfa, the producer of Omnadren.
Now you right about Organon brand name, but do you really believe that the drug is the same quality, handled the same way, inspected the same way in Pakistan and Holland for example. You got to be kidding.
when you buy something legit in Europe or from USA pharmacy you can rest assured it's good. While you buy something in third wold country, anything can happen. Who can forget legit phamracutical Iranian Aburaihan Test Enanthate that tested around 160 (instead of 250) or ICN Galenika from Yugoslavia 176 instead of 250.
Should I continue?
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Division you know it amazes me when someone DOESNT know something yet acts like he does. I never say things unless I am 100% sure of what I say.
Back to Omnadrev vs Sustanon. For the past couple of years (2 or 3 not sure exactly) Omnadren has been identical to Sustanon. There was one ester difference before but no more. They are the same. Exactly the same. I was in Poland this summer and swa both the old and the new Omnadren. Dont be a fool and argue if you dont know something. Omnadren grey paper labels that are importated to Russia and Ukraine (new bottles) can be see on some boards too. Also altough I cant provide you with proof myself (for personal reasons) I'll be more than happy to give you a contact of sales rep from Jelfa, the producer of Omnadren.
Now you right about Organon brand name, but do you really believe that the drug is the same quality, handled the same way, inspected the same way in Pakistan and Holland for example. You got to be kidding.
when you buy something legit in Europe or from USA pharmacy you can rest assured it's good. While you buy something in third wold country, anything can happen. Who can forget legit phamracutical Iranian Aburaihan Test Enanthate that tested around 160 (instead of 250) or ICN Galenika from Yugoslavia 176 instead of 250.
Should I continue?
I haven't seen any of the new Omnadren and I haven't seen any of them in print, either, so if what you say is true, then I admit I'm wrong.
If it's been 2 or 3 years as you've said, I wonder why it wasn't updated in Llewellyn's Anabolics 2005 edition?
It's not a big deal now I suppose.
Now you right about Organon brand name, but do you really believe that the drug is the same quality, handled the same way, inspected the same way in Pakistan and Holland for example. You got to be kidding.
when you buy something legit in Europe or from USA pharmacy you can rest assured it's good. While you buy something in third wold country, anything can happen.
I think generally your point rings true, except for Karachi Sustanon250. The screenprinting and the way the date is laserprinted on the glass amp makes it very unlikely those have ever been faked. I have never heard of a fake Karachi, and they have a very good reputation.
If I was ever able to sample the Holland product, I'd tell you my opinion.
There's no proof, obviously, that the quality is any different but there is a consensus among users that the Niles don't feel as good as the Karachi.
That's all I have to go on at this point.
DIV
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DIV, I've been saying that about Omna all along.
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DIV, I've been saying that about Omna all along.
Until I've used it myself and have it in my possession, all of this is based on the word of other people.
I tend to trust my own eyes over other people's.
Don't you?
DIV
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I haven't seen any of the new Omnadren and I haven't seen any of them in print, either, so if what you say is true, then I admit I'm wrong.
If it's been 2 or 3 years as you've said, I wonder why it wasn't updated in Llewellyn's Anabolics 2005 edition?
It's not a big deal now I suppose.
I think generally your point rings true, except for Karachi Sustanon250. The screenprinting and the way the date is laserprinted on the glass amp makes it very unlikely those have ever been faked. I have never heard of a fake Karachi, and they have a very good reputation.
If I was ever able to sample the Holland product, I'd tell you my opinion.
There's no proof, obviously, that the quality is any different but there is a consensus among users that the Niles don't feel as good as the Karachi.
That's all I have to go on at this point.
DIV
Here is a fake one for you bad boy-for more info on the fake karachis check out www.retdomestic.com
Div you need to get some updated material bad boy-lol :-\ anyway id probably go with omnas because i get them for dirt cheap and my bro is in poland so I know they are 110% legit plus I get them in the original packaging-cant really beat that-lol.
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Here is a fake one for you bad boy-for more info on the fake karachis check out www.retdomestic.com
Div you need to get some updated material bad boy-lol :-\ anyway id probably go with omnas because i get them for dirt cheap and my bro is in poland so I know they are 110% legit plus I get them in the original packaging-cant really beat that-lol.
Now that I know that the Omnadren are the same and they are the same quality as Organon, I'll pursue that.
DIV
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I'VE DONE 'EM BOTH...HERE'S THE SCOOP... OMNADREN IS FASTER ACTING AND U RETAIN WATER A BIT MORE...OTHER THEN THAT SUSTANON IS A BETTER OVERALL PRODUCT....SO I'LL PICK IT OVER OMNADREN
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I'VE DONE 'EM BOTH...HERE'S THE SCOOP... OMNADREN IS FASTER ACTING AND U RETAIN WATER A BIT MORE...OTHER THEN THAT SUSTANON IS A BETTER OVERALL PRODUCT....SO I'LL PICK IT OVER OMNADREN
If the new Omnadren are of the same formula as Sustanon, why would the mechanism of action be any different?
They are identical ester-wise, now.
DIV
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i've done the old one...the new one is the same, so just go by price
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Sustanon and Omnadren are not identical....one ester is different.
I think it's ignorant to assume that any of the Organon Sustanons manufactured in foreign countries are somehow lower in quality.
The Karachi Sustanon have a good rep, while the Niles do not.
I've never seen a fake Karachi, but I know that Niles are faked.
Doubtful that the Mexican redijects are faked, too expensive.
All things being equal, I'd take the Sustanon unless the Omnadren are dirt cheap.
The same compounds except that Omnadren contains testosterone caproate, while Sustanon contains testosterone decanoate. The deca releases much faster which is why Omnadren is said to have a higher incidence of water retention. I'd say that's a pretty substantial difference.
I've never posted a pic, because it would be pretty stupid to do so on a site like this considering I openly admit to using AAS without prescription.
Exactly.
I can describe in detail how every anabolic compound feels when I run it, and what it does to my body, but will it really help the next guy whose genetics are different than mine?
Probably not.......
All we have are correlations and common sides to compare.
DIV
Omnadren 250
Anabolic Steroid Books
Anabolics 2006 by William Llewellyn - Regarded as the undisputed mother of all steroid reference manuals by bodybuilders
Anabolic Steroids: The Ultimate Research Guide by Anthony Roberts - Steroid manual written in a straight forward and conversational style that you will understand
Publication Date: November 1, 1998
UPDATED: As of fall 2000, the formula for Omnadren 250 is identical to the formula for Sustanon 250.
by Bill Roberts - This preparation is quite similar to Sustanon, and is different only in that 100 mg/mL of it (of 250 mg/mL total) is testosterone hexanoate instead of the testosterone decanoate used in Sustanon. For this reason, Omnadren has a shorter half life, and will give a faster initial increase in blood level. This accounts for the claim of increased water retention and increased side effects, since levels, at first, are higher for the same dosage.
The claim that Omnadren has a duration effect of "a good 2-3 weeks" is somewhat misleading since the half life of the longest lived component is only about 5 days. There is of course some effect 2 or 3 weeks after injection, but relatively little.
The hexanoate ester is quite similar to the well known enanthate ester, but is shorter by one carbon.
The isohexanoate ester in Omnadren is the same, only named differently, as the isocaproate ester in Sustanon. Thus, the hexanoate vs. decanoate difference is the only difference in the mixture of esters.
I hate to cut and paste, but its been said that all omnas now have the same 4 esters as sust 2250, this debate goes on and on, who the hell cares, use what makes you happy.
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Omnadren 250
Anabolic Steroid Books
Anabolics 2006 by William Llewellyn - Regarded as the undisputed mother of all steroid reference manuals by bodybuilders
Anabolic Steroids: The Ultimate Research Guide by Anthony Roberts - Steroid manual written in a straight forward and conversational style that you will understand
Publication Date: November 1, 1998
UPDATED: As of fall 2000, the formula for Omnadren 250 is identical to the formula for Sustanon 250.
by Bill Roberts - This preparation is quite similar to Sustanon, and is different only in that 100 mg/mL of it (of 250 mg/mL total) is testosterone hexanoate instead of the testosterone decanoate used in Sustanon. For this reason, Omnadren has a shorter half life, and will give a faster initial increase in blood level. This accounts for the claim of increased water retention and increased side effects, since levels, at first, are higher for the same dosage.
The claim that Omnadren has a duration effect of "a good 2-3 weeks" is somewhat misleading since the half life of the longest lived component is only about 5 days. There is of course some effect 2 or 3 weeks after injection, but relatively little.
The hexanoate ester is quite similar to the well known enanthate ester, but is shorter by one carbon.
The isohexanoate ester in Omnadren is the same, only named differently, as the isocaproate ester in Sustanon. Thus, the hexanoate vs. decanoate difference is the only difference in the mixture of esters.
I hate to cut and paste, but its been said that all omnas now have the same 4 esters as sust 2250, this debate goes on and on, who the hell cares, use what makes you happy.
I'm not sure it's a debate anymore if the actual formulas are identical, which is what people who used them have been saying.
The old Omnadren were different.
The new ones are said to be identical.
DIV
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For those of you who have tried both in separate cycles, how would you compare the feel of them?
Which felt better?
Stronger?
Smoother?
Explain which you prefer and why.
Experienced vets only please!
DIV
Hey Div,
To answer that I would honestly have to say I felt better on the sustenon. I used both and I felt that there was less water retention and more solid gains in lean muscle mass. I felt shitty on the omnadren. The sustenon I used was Karachi. Great stuff. I did only 500mg each week (upping to 750mg each week while mid cycle)stacked with 400mg of Deca (Norma Hellas) for 10 weeks slowly tappering down and then replacing the sustenon with winstrol tabs.
I say if you need to choose between the two...go for the Sustenon.
PB
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Ok, my .02.....
I have done many types of sus over the years ( Mexican redi-jects, Turkish, Karachi, green Niles, and both Omnadrens).
It is true that with the older Omna`s there was more water retention, but they worked very well. The Turkish were IMO garbage as well as the Niles. Not that they were fake or anything, just did not work well for me. My favorites were the Redi-jects and the Karachi`s for effectiveness. As far as the newer Omna`s ( I think it has been more like 4-5 years since the change), I have used them as a bridge and had nothing bad say about them.
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Ok, my .02.....
I have done many types of sus over the years ( Mexican redi-jects, Turkish, Karachi, green Niles, and both Omnadrens).
It is true that with the older Omna`s there was more water retention, but they worked very well. The Turkish were IMO garbage as well as the Niles. Not that they were fake or anything, just did not work well for me. My favorites were the Redi-jects and the Karachi`s for effectiveness. As far as the newer Omna`s ( I think it has been more like 4-5 years since the change), I have used them as a bridge and had nothing bad say about them.
I suppose I would wonder why the quality of the Karachi's and Redijects would be higher than the Niles or Turkish?
Overdosed or that the others were underdosed?
Higher quality assurance at the lab?
DIV
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I suppose I would wonder why the quality of the Karachi's and Redijects would be higher than the Niles or Turkish?
Overdosed or that the others were underdosed?
Higher quality assurance at the lab?
DIV
I wondered myself, as I have always been skeptcal of any gear out of Mexico. Now with that being said, does Organon have any type of quality standards across the board with similar products ?
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I suppose I would wonder why the quality of the Karachi's and Redijects would be higher than the Niles or Turkish?
Overdosed or that the others were underdosed?
Higher quality assurance at the lab?
DIV
Could be. I used the Niles before and They did nothing. I was so upset. Wasted my cash on 40 ampoules of that Niles shit.
PB
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I wondered myself, as I have always been skeptcal of any gear out of Mexico. Now with that being said, does Organon have any type of quality standards across the board with similar products ?
I think it has to do with where the product was produced.
Niles are produced in Egypt under the Organon brand, but they are not seen as the same quality as the Karachi which are made in Pakistan.
The Mexican Sostenon Redijects are good quality and aren't faked, so being skeptical of them is ridiculous.
All things being equal, I'll take the Reijects for the same price as the Karachi simply because they're mean for quick injections.
Can't beat that.....
DIV