Getbig Bodybuilding, Figure and Fitness Forums
Getbig Main Boards => Gossip & Opinions => Topic started by: Stavios on February 03, 2007, 10:22:18 AM
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http://www.scottabel.blogspot.com/ (http://www.scottabel.blogspot.com/)
the man speaks the truth right here
good read
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Dying to Compete: Dying to be Huge: Dying to Win:
The Common Word is Dying
You know I would really like to do some Blogs about things I enjoy and concepts I am so jacked about like MET training, and the concepts behind it, and how people are loving it etc. That’s what I would like to do. But things keep coming up leading me in other more important directions. This Blog is an important Blog. I know, for some with open minds it may help. For others, the ones it is really aimed at, it will unfortunately for the most part, fall on deaf ears. And still for others, who don’t know much about the bodybuilding game at the competitive level, it may be more information than you wish to know.
I will make no apologies for the tone presented here. Truth is, this Blog comes with a considerable amount of anger and emotion. Even if I wait till I “cool off” to write it, that won’t help. So know that as you proceed to the content of this Blog, I will try to be as “diplomatic” as I can, but I still need to get this off my chest.
It isn’t often that contemplating a Blog keeps me up at night. This one has kept me up, tormented me, induced some tears, and as I said, also threads of anger. I haven’t been angry in a long, long time, about anything. So it takes something to knock me off my steady base. This something is not one thing, but a perpetual and steady flow of the same thing over and over again, to the point of ridiculousness. So I need to comment. If one of you gets this before it is too late, then it has been worth my time, and emotional energy.
Let’s get something straight first of all. I train athletes. I don’t train bodybuilders. I didn’t realize till lately that I never have trained bodybuilders. Whether you come to me just to lose some weight and feel better and have more energy, or you come to me to rectify metabolic damage, my approach is the same. I train athletes. You don’t even need to consider your self an athlete. But the approach we take together, will establish a mode of communication between us, where you will begin to think, feel, and act like an athlete. Eventually you will “be” an athlete, in the way you approach almost anything. That may mean being a winner or being a champion, but it will be beyond the goal for why you hired me. I’m sure most of my long term clients from all walks of life will concur on this. So again, I don’t coach bodybuilders.
Athletes under my charge may express themselves as athletes in bodybuilding shows, but that is far different than me saying I coach and train bodybuilders. Again, I just realized lately, that this is a unique distinction in me vs. other “trainers” or coaches in my field.
Now this is certainly a long pre-amble to the topic at hand. But here goes:
I have already addressed Metabolic Damage, in other Blogs, so I will leave that out of this one. Suffice it to say these ridiculous “veggie diets” and other crazy and conceptually bankrupt practices are now leaving more victims than champions, in their wake. Well in male bodybuilding the drug craziness is getting more and more absurd and I need to speak up about it.
In 2004, I Guest Posed at the Toronto Pro Show. It is a fairly low level pro show to be sure. I have been backstage at many Olympia’s and Arnold Classics, and other pro shows of course, but it had been some time for sure. What I saw there changed my desire to be involved any more at that level. I left that show after my appearance out the back door to the parking lot, and vowed not to be involved at that level ever again. This sport has changed and has gone to the dogs: Guys with welts from site injections, all up and down the vastus lateralis. Another guy “feeling nauseous” cause to hear him tell it, he stayed up all night injecting esiclene in all his body parts, some 50-60 insulin needle injections, and his body showed the signs of it. There was of course more, but I had seen and heard enough.
I honored my commitment, and left out the back door. I knew right then, that if you aren’t part of the solution then you are a part of the problem. I was supposed to have a little booth there to sign pics and be there for pics but I couldn’t even bring myself to do that. This was no longer my sport. Not the one I signed on for when the legendary Bill Pearl took me under his wing some years ago, at the 1989 Muscle Camp, Los Angeles. Bill proclaimed in front of everyone, that this guy (meaning me, was going to do something special in this sport) I never forgot that.
Since then I have watched the sport digress and devolve to even more ridiculous levels. Only in the bodybuilding industry do we indulge so much the “lunatic fringe” and the idiot base. I think it’s a travesty that one of the most read magazines out there gives a monthly column to that idiot whose arms blew up. I read that column once, just to be fair, and I was disgusted. The way he talked and degraded women, degraded himself and to my mind degraded that magazine and the whole industry, just furthered my desire to not be associated with the sport if this is what it has become, and how it would be represented. Then A and E does a special on this guy. Well he doesn’t represent me. He never has. This is not bodybuilding. I don’t know what it is, but it is not bodybuilding. And it for sure has nothing to do with athleticism.
Then we have all these genius websites where the whole goal is to dispense pharmaceutical advice. Not from trained medical professionals, mind you, but from other plateheads. It’s sad that websites exist called “…… Juice Monsters” I don’t know the content within that site and I don’t want to know. What is the message being sent here anyway?
We all know the sport has lost some people over the last few years. I don’t need to name them. Many others now have serious medical and health problems for the rest of their lives. But there are so many “wannabe” builders out there on the local levels doing this to themselves on a regular basis. The message is just not getting out there. Is competing as a pro, in a sport with ZERO rewards worth a shortened life or a life of serious medical problems??? I have tried in vain to counsel many guys and gals that the “more is better mentality” is a myth. But I am losing that battle. At the same time I am also losing acquaintances and friends, who are just even a little susceptible to the prevailing myth out there, that modern bodybuilding is a chemical arms race. I know several competitors who have died.
In the last year I have received e-mails from guys that fall in to these categories. 13 with chronic hepatic dysfunction serious enough that they may not be able to work again. 7-8 with failing kidneys, diseased kidneys, and general renal type ailments. A whopping 12 have contacted me since the end of last season with serious cardio myopathies, of various types. Many are also reporting undisclosed blood borne bacterial infections, and staph infections from dirty needles and dirty drugs (home brews so readily available now)
With the overuse of insulin now many have pancreaitis of varying degrees and forms. Many need to be and will be on medication for the rest of their lives, if their lives are not shortened. They are worried, they are afraid, and they just want to feel, and be normal again. That will never happen. Why?
The bodybuilding mentality to which they were over exposed for so long, got to them. With all the attention and various websites that cater to the “juiced produced mentality” it can understandably be enticing. Even a “just one stack to see the difference” type of thinking has lead to irreparable medical damage and death in so many. Few talk about it beyond being gym gossip. It is the dirty little secret that exists everywhere but everyone assumes it is that one “isolated guy” in their area. Wake up people and see the warning signs. I do not need to lose any more people I know in this industry. I almost lost one last week.
His, is not my story to tell so I won’t. Like so many he didn’t want to hear my message of “less is fine” and time to hang up the posing trunks when medical conditions arise! So like so many, they avoid me, in regards to information on what they are doing and how they are doing it. They just don’t want to hear it from me. (then it is too late) 6 people I know have now died, and they were in their 30’s to 40’s. Others are permanently sick, for the rest of their lives. All because of the “internet bodybuilding extreme mentality” out there.
People think on various sites, Scott doesn’t know what is going on these days. Let me enlighten you Einsteins out there. Scott knows! Scott knows more than all of you. Scott chooses to not be a part of that abuse mentality. It’s ironic that I have been to the top in this sport and stayed there for many years, with many clients. Yet people that have never been there think they know better. Listen; to all you internet “experts” out there. Because you post 1,000 times on various boards, doesn’t mean you know what you are talking about, or that you have anything meaningful to say.
Ok, where to start on all of this. Last year, three different people wrote to me to dial them in for one of the top pro shows in the sport. I turned every one of them down for various reasons. One guy sent me his stack to “look at” It was something like this:
Growth Hormone, IGF1, Insulin, Testosterone Propionate, Sustanon, Trenbolone, Decca Durabolin, Masteron, Proviron, Winstrol V, Cytomel, Cytadren, Arimidex, Clenbuterol, Anavar. We won’t even discuss doses. Of course on top of that, he was now taking medication for high blood pressure, and medication for high cholesterol. And like almost 70% of long term steroid users I have come in contact with in the last little while, he was also on anti-depression medication, anti-anxiety medication, and sleep medication. That is 20 different kinds and strengths of pharmaceuticals being metabolized in one body, at one time, in supra physiological doses. His liver function tests would be off the chart if he even bothered to get any. And the thing about liver function, is that it may not get you now, but when it does it will be intense and it will be serious. Some have found out the hard way that four months after their last stack, they go on an antibiotic or something, and then all hell breaks loose medically speaking.
The same goes for renal impairment. Trenbolone is causing serious renal issues in the bodybuilding world.
Of course I turned him down. I won’t be a part of that at any level. What jolted me more, was that he wanted me to look at the stack in case I wanted to “add anything” What are you insane?
Cutting edge medical experts say that the root of all disease, ailments and cancers of the modern era is a result of too much acid in the blood. That is the one root cause regardless of how it manifests in varying forms of cancer. (Wade could comment on this in greater detail I am sure) What these experts also know is that the one biggest contributor to too much acid in the blood is prescription pharmaceuticals!!!! So imagine the effect on metabolism and physiology when someone willingly takes 20 + medications at a time. If this is the number one contributor to serious illnesses and cancers and heart diseases, then why would anyone be so insane with their bodies? This just sets it all in motion. And it may not happen during that “stack” of abuse. It may come weeks or even months afterward.
Most people I am hearing from now have a mountain of regret. They want to change other bodybuilder’s perspectives but they don’t want to put their own case out there for public consumption. Most people will jump from site to site and one person’s medical emergency just becomes the latest juicy gossip in the gyms and on the Forums of various sites. It’s human nature I guess.
But it is a much different perspective when someone you know, is in hospital, and you go to see him and he is on life support; combinations of machines keeping him alive, and not knowing if he may see morning. No family or family member should have to endure that. And for what?
My friend Tommy Hall wasn’t lucky enough to get more than one warning. His warning like many bodybuilders writing me now, began with sleep apnea. Sleep apnea for most bodybuilders should not be an issue. It is usually for fat people. But gaining weight through “bulking up” or by being fat is still a structural strain. Tommy’s next warning was a massive heart episode that took his life.
I sat at his visitation, for the entire time. I could only wonder why, and I could only see tragedy and waste. The week before he died he had told an associate, “I just want to be a freak!” He never got his wish. He had stopped asking me for advice on such issues because once again, he didn’t like my message.
This leaves me with another issue. Expertise. What does that even mean in bodybuilding now? I know what it means to me, but it seems to mean something else out there to those who claim to be “Hardcore” Recently I know a guy won a high level championship last fall. He reportedly weighed about 225lbs at his show. Right after his show he was told (by his top level coach) to get up to 300 lbs by Christmas! What are you kidding me? This is expert advice? How is gaining 75 pounds in three months functional, healthy, or related to performance enhancement. That kind of sudden and substantial weight gain would produce performance breakdowns of all kinds, not enhance strength. The messages are just getting more and more perverted all the time. And they make no sense to me, or little at all.
And to the person or people advocating the previous mentioned “pro stack” above. How is that an application of “expertise” or “expert advice?” It is instead the application of drug abuse in a sub culture that condones and embraces it. It is the application of “extremism”
And before people start saying I am trashing “so and so” let’s get something straight once and for all. There is an old saying, “small minds talk about people, average minds talk about events, superior minds talk about concepts” When I talk about methods of training or dieting as making no sense, I am talking about any concepts behind them, not the people behind them. And when it comes to the lunacy behind the “juice mentality” the same goes.
The problem is that it is just so pervasive of an attitude out there. These websites are terrible for mis-information, and really is the blind leading the blind.
I’m tired of hearing wannabe bodybuilders telling each other that Dr’s don’t know what they are talking about. Just once I want that statement to come from a bodybuilder with a medical degree. But as always it takes an education, to appreciate an education. But I’ll tell you, Dr.’s do know how to read blood tests. They know how to read kidney enzymes, and liver enzymes indicative of acute illness. They know how to determine if cardiac function is normal or distressed. The fact is it’s the bodybuilders that don’t know what they are talking about when it comes to this stuff. Ignorance is no longer bliss.
Recently a client sent me this link: http://www.professionalmuscle.com/forums/showthread.php?t=16710
It is basically someone confessing to a near death experience from his stack. I don’t go to other bodybuilding sites, ever. I read this because of questions and concerns my client had regarding the thread. But it just reinforces to me how crazy and out of hand all of this is getting and has gotten. The experts that exist in bodybuilding as I have said many times, exist more in reputation than in real terms. It’s hurting many out there. It’s time for one person to say crazy, when crazy is what it is.
It is time to get people to train with a concept of self-respect and dignity. These don’t come to you from getting bigger. They come to you from a “process of learning about yourself” while undergoing a long term project like bodybuilding or athletics etc.
You won’t find out what you are made of from doing a stack and getting bigger. That’s an easy thing. I’ve always said in my seminars that the problem I have always seen with the “juice mentality” is that if you are a jerk at 180 lbs, and you take up bodybuilding but don’t work on your self, and go do a stack and gain some size, well guess what, now you are just a bigger more visible jerk, at 220 lbs or whatever. We need to stop this insanity folks. Take a look at what you are doing on levels beyond your local affiliations.
One thing is also quite clear. Some of these local bodybuilding scenes are messed up! They are some of the most hostile and toxic environments I have ever witnessed. I am talking now about the social subculture of it. We can clean this up, but it needs to start somewhere. What is going on now is crazy. What I call dis-oriented thinking. Some people’s thinking strategies, are in reality, stinking tragedies!! Do you want to die, or be permanently ill because of a desire to get a better body, or to say you competed at the "next level"
Oh, this could never happen to me, is what most people are thinking. I beg to differ given the mentality out there right now.
Am I saying I don’t train people for bodybuilding shows? Of course not. As of right now I have about 9 people in Nationals this year. I am hoping through their experience with me by the time they take to the stage they will be “athletes” not bodybuilders. You don’t have to compete to excel. As many of the Figure girls with Metabolic Damage know, I have counseled most of you to not even compete for a few years. Often that is the best thing to get back in touch with why you started doing all of this to begin with.
Last night on Larry King, he had on some previous years contestants from American Idol, none of them winners. When asked what their overall message was, they all conveyed that they are all doing better and doing vocations in life now because of their experience with American Idol. They noted you don’t need to win on that show to benefit from it, long term. It changed their lives.
It gave me pause to acknowledge there is so little of that experience in the bodybuilding industry. So many of these competitive environments are so toxic and hostile, and competitive not in a way that encourages but in a way that perverts the competitive spirit.
It is not supposed to be about all of this folks.
I know I am getting a little side tracked. The reason is, even thinking about this for too long saps my positive energy as well.
But there is an old saying among coaches. “If you want me to be responsible for cooking the meal, then you better let me buy the groceries” Our industry needs a serious overall in terms of who is representing it, what voices are being heard, and what is the prevailing mentality and thinking strategies behind it all.
I’m tired. I’m tired of getting letters from strangers frightened and confused about sudden medical issues that have now taken their lives in a completely different direction: A direction totally avoidable. I’m tired of hearing about former clients, acquaintances, and competitors dying or almost dying, of the most ridiculous of “un-natural causes”
Why? To have a 20 inch arm? To compete in a pro show? It’s crazy. It makes no sense. If this is what it takes now, then count me out. And let me be perfectly clear, if any of you think this is indeed what it takes, then it was never yours in the first place.
Winning, earning, and triumphing, they come from within. Not from a bottle. You can’t ever inject that spirit.
I love the fact that many of you with real lives come to me for coaching. It takes expertise to get people to reach goals worthy of accomplishing. But it is also nice to have and keep a healthy perspective. Bodybuilding as a process, like so many other processes out there, can change your life, for sure. Competition, can be a worthwhile part of that, but the process is where the winning comes from, the contest is second to that.
I don’t have the answers and I don’t claim to have the answers. I do know right now, in this industry, the messages getting out there to the masses are mixed up and screwed up. I think it is time to get back to some basics; hard work, real sacrifice in the gym and at the dinner table; self-respect, self dignity, self-reliance, self-motivation.
The antithesis of that is that the notion that the path to gold lies in supplements, drugs, powders, potions, lotions, schemes, and voodoo.
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thanks DK
I didn't want to copie it here cause it is a long ass blog but he says a lot of interesting things
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nice writing. however we have all heard these train wreck stories before. what we need is some hard statistics and science behind it before any one will believe it.
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Our industry needs a serious overall in terms of who is representing it, what voices are being heard, and what is the prevailing mentality and thinking strategies behind it all.
monster truth
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http://www.scottabel.blogspot.com/ (http://www.scottabel.blogspot.com/)
the man speaks the truth right here
good read
my attention span is short to read the full thing. After the 1st paragragh I gave up
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A good read. Thank you.
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I’m tired. I’m tired of getting letters from strangers frightened and confused about sudden medical issues that have now taken their lives in a completely different direction: A direction totally avoidable. I’m tired of hearing about former clients, acquaintances, and competitors dying or almost dying, of the most ridiculous of “un-natural causes”
Why? To have a 20 inch arm? To compete in a pro show? It’s crazy. It makes no sense. If this is what it takes now, then count me out. And let me be perfectly clear, if any of you think this is indeed what it takes, then it was never yours in the first place.
8) Totally agree.
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I know we heard similar stories before on the net but by some no name dude who have no credibility !
what are the chances that Chad Nichols will say things like these ?
Scott saw it all, he has been in the business for years and he has the balls to speak the truth, props to him
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I have a different take on this!
In anything that involves physical attributes, once there is money and fame involved you will always have competitors seeking a physical advantage.
be it better running shoes, clothes that make you swim/run/jump/throw faster. I am sure that athletes from humdreds of years ago ingested food that they thought would enhance their performance. Which leads to the current state of professional athletics.
I firmly believe (no evidence) that most if all olympic athletes use drug enhancers....so why not bodybuilders?
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Why? To have a 20 inch arm? To compete in a pro show? It’s crazy. It makes no sense. If this is what it takes now, then count me out. And let me be perfectly clear, if any of you think this is indeed what it takes, then it was never yours in the first place.
what kind of moron needs these crazy stacks to get 20! inch arms.
if you cant get 20 inch arms naturally(yes without any drugs) bodybuilding is not for you imo
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what kind of moron needs these crazy stacks to get 20! inch arms.
if you cant get 20 inch arms naturally(yes without any drugs) bodybuilding is not for you imo
good point, and i agree. But there are too many idiots who don't know this.
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Good read.
Most abusers will dismiss it, I'm sure.
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thanks for finding and posting that. I enjoyed the read.
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very good read. a buddy of mine was telling me about this last night. he is a client of scotts and the person who scott talks about almost dying last week was a friend of ours. he's doing fine now but it was VERY CLOSE.
scott talks about how after that toronto show he didnt want to be involved at that level anymore after what he saw. this is very similar to me. in 2004 i competed in nationals for the 3rd time after taking a couple years off. i was the biggest and best i had ever been. backstage the day of the show i was looking around at the guys in the class(and others) and saw faces that i had competed against before. the amount of size they had put on in only 2 years blew me away.the amount of gear they must have taken scared me. after that i decided i was no longer gonna compete if it meant taking more(gear) than i already had. i wasnt willing to risk my health any further just to try and win nationals...and even if i did succeed at that i know there was no way that i would place high in pro shows....so what the hell is the point in risking your health and life.
sorry for the personal ramble.
thanx scott for saying what needed to be said
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very good read. a buddy of mine was telling me about this last night. he is a client of scotts and the person who scott talks about almost dying last week was a friend of ours. he's doing fine now but it was VERY CLOSE.
If he had several close calls and hospital visits in the recent months how come he continued with his prep? Didn't you say anything?
WOW!……Just WOW! That is all I can say. It has been over one full hour since I read this blog and I am still crying. By the way I am still in the hospital, three weeks and counting, with no exact date on when I will be released.
I appreciate the dedication Scott and all the kind words and spiritual advice you have offered me not just in this time of despair but for as long as we have known each other and as long as I have understood that I am loved by you for who I am and not for what I have accomplished. I only wish I could say the same for more people in my life purported to be friends
Well for those that do not know I am the reference Scott alluded to with the “story to tell”, and in good time and once I have all the facts straight I will do just that. Truth is Scott, my family and all my loved ones did loose me, I was pronounced dead for about 5 minutes but as he said I was dealt a second chance. One thing for certain is I may never entirely understand why beyond the obvious efforts of the emergency room staff, but I do know I will never take it for granted for the remainder of my days on God’s good Earth.
In just the last 8 months I have been in the emergency room three separate times, have spent a week each in I.C.U and C.C.U wards, I have twice had SVT’s of 200 or greater which lead me to being cardioverted on two separate occasions, my kidneys have failed, my liver has shut down and my heart has stopped…dead! All of this has happened in my preparation for my professional bodybuilding debut; which by the way will now never happen. Much worse it was perpetrated at the mental expense of my loved ones who were not given any choice in the matter other than to sit by and pray for my recovery.
As I have stated an accurate account of my story at this time is not possible for a number of reasons. Most importantly it will be some time before I am mental strong enough to cope with the enormity of the situation. Two I am without a conscious memory of the initial four to five days of my last admittance in mid January and three the story is not yet complete. There are a number of chapters yet to unfold.
I am willing though to go on record at this time and contribute to Scott’s Blog with these heart felt words.
Bodybuilding did not bring me the super hero status I was looking for when I initially signed up. Instead it has shown me quite vividly the limits to my own mortality. What’s more is the mental and physical pollution that Scott talks of that we as competitors adhere to is all the reason one needs to see the lack of return on your investment. I willingly put the people I most care for in the absolute worst position possible in having to interrupt their lives to come rescue mine. None of them feel I owe them an apology for this selfishness but it haunts me every night I lay down for bed in my small hospital room and it is the very reason I experience so many sleepless nights sitting aside my bed weeping in my hands. Do not get me wrong, sorry for myself I am not. Sorry for the pain I have caused to my nearest and dearest I most certainly am.
Exactly when, how and by what means my story remains to be told is uncertain. Its message though will resonate with Scott’s aforementioned words, “If one of you gets it before it is too late, then it will have been worth my time and emotional energy.”
It really is unfortunate to think that in my career as a competitive bodybuilder and with all my success, the National Title included and the recognition and respect I thought I had earned amongst my peers my most engrained memory from this sport will be my 37th birthday where I spent it in a hospital not enjoying cake with friends but begging the nursing staff to rid me of the intravenous, catheter and bed pan so I could gain some form of self dignity back from the man I though I once was.
Thank you to all who have been and continue to be there for me, you know who you are. I will forever be indebted to you for your kindness, compassion and support.
Dan Fedeluk
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cool article, thanks
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<< Because you post 1,000 times on various boards, doesn’t mean you know what you are talking about, or that you have anything meaningful to say. >>
Auugghh! It's like a terrible mirror held up to my face... but I can't look away!
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awesome post thanks stavios
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Yeah good points. Less Kidney killers in the sport would be a plus,cough cough Chad
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I know we heard similar stories before on the net but by some no name dude who have no credibility !
what are the chances that Chad Nichols will say things like these ?
Scott saw it all, he has been in the business for years and he has the balls to speak the truth, props to him
People have been stating for years that far too many bodybuilders are ABUSING (not just using) anabolic steroids and other performance-enhancing drugs. Wayne DeMilla was interviewed in IronMan, after an "anonymous" pro made similar claim. DeMilla stated that this guy was right. But, he emphasized that the fault lay squarely on the competitors themselves and mentioned that every time the IFBB tries to drug test, the competitors break their necks trying to beat the test.
Scott Abel mentioned MD (albeit not by name) as a magazine catering to the "lunatic fringe". Isn't it ironic that the editor of this same magazine 10 years ago, not only decried the abuse of anabolics, but gave his magazine a face lift, dedicating it only to natural bodybuilding (All-Natural Muscular Development). Blechman was supposed to have "balls"; he was going to take a stand. He claimed natural bodybuilders would get the spotlight, the press, and most importantly the $$$$ from (at that time) a major supplement company. He vowed that no steroid-using bodybuilder would ever grace the pages of his magazine again. His bodybuilders would be drug-tested. If they failed, they would get fired.
Where was the fan support? How many MD readers today, have issues of ANMD lined up on their shelves? Where was the push behind Blechman's movement? What about support for the World Bodybuilding Federation back in 1992? Bodybuilding fans complain about the drug issue; yet, many of them ridicule those who try to do something about it. Even DeMillia, in the aforementioned IronMan interview, stated that when he tried to dial down the drugs, the bodybuilders would agree with him.....to his face. They would later blubber and bleat to Joe Weider and say something completely OPPOSITE of what they told DeMilla.
At the end of the day, the bodybuilders themselves have to start caring about their own health and well-being. If they don't, nobody else (IFBB/NPC judges, supplement companies, magazine editors, fans, etc.) will.
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very good read. a buddy of mine was telling me about this last night. he is a client of scotts and the person who scott talks about almost dying last week was a friend of ours. he's doing fine now but it was VERY CLOSE.
scott talks about how after that toronto show he didnt want to be involved at that level anymore after what he saw. this is very similar to me. in 2004 i competed in nationals for the 3rd time after taking a couple years off. i was the biggest and best i had ever been. backstage the day of the show i was looking around at the guys in the class(and others) and saw faces that i had competed against before. the amount of size they had put on in only 2 years blew me away.the amount of gear they must have taken scared me. after that i decided i was no longer gonna compete if it meant taking more(gear) than i already had. i wasnt willing to risk my health any further just to try and win nationals...and even if i did succeed at that i know there was no way that i would place high in pro shows....so what the hell is the point in risking your health and life.
sorry for the personal ramble.
thanx scott for saying what needed to be said
Blinky competes? I thought all you did was post pics of tits, surf the web for pics of tits, download videos of tits....:)
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If he had several close calls and hospital visits in the recent months how come he continued with his prep? Didn't you say anything?
actually just last week i was asking my friend where Dan had been cause i hadnt seen him around in quite some time. this was when i found out what was going on. he has had other health problems(non-drug related) that i didnt not know about til then.
like scott said he just wasnt willing to listen to him..his friends either.
Blinky competes? I thought all you did was post pics of tits, surf the web for pics of tits, download videos of tits....:)
;). hahaha
ya since my last contest i refered too ive lost alot of interest in the sport. thats why on here i rarely post on the bodybuilding threads anymore.
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there's NO WAY im gonna read all that
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James Bradshaw, one of the biggest steroid dealers of the '80's and the man behind Ultimate Orange once told me:
[Special Ed], one day the size of your wallet will be more important to you than the size of your bicep...the sooner that day comes for you, the better off you will be.
The problem is that so many of these juicemonkeys actually think that their wallet size will increase with their bicep size. In fact, the opposite is true. In the business world, an overgrown juicemonkey will have problems being taken seriously, and will earn a living by: selling drugs, selling semen-laden underwear, selling nude or semi-nude photos, selling their bodies, and selling out their friends.
Just say no to juicemonkeys.
Special "Bi-Curious George" Ed
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If he had several close calls and hospital visits in the recent months how come he continued with his prep? Didn't you say anything?
I went to that Dan Fedeluk guy's website. Never heard of him before. Dude competed as lightheavy one year then turned pro as a superheavy the following year... He doesnt look anything special, from the pics on his site... Basically he fucked himself up with drugs for nothing?!
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I went to that Dan Fedeluk guy's website. Never heard of him before. Dude competed as lightheavy one year then turned pro as a superheavy the following year... He doesnt look anything special, from the pics on his site... Basically he fucked himself up with drugs for nothing?!
I forget which year he won the title. Was it 2003 or 2004? From memory, Nelson DaSilva won it in 2001; Mike Platz in 2002, Simon Voyer in 2005, and Fuoad Abiad in 2006.
BTW - what happened to Mike Platz?
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James Bradshaw, one of the biggest steroid dealers of the '80's and the man behind Ultimate Orange once told me:
[Special Ed], one day the size of your wallet will be more important to you than the size of your bicep...the sooner that day comes for you, the better off you will be.
The problem is that so many of these juicemonkeys actually think that their wallet size will increase with their bicep size. In fact, the opposite is true. In the business world, an overgrown juicemonkey will have problems being taken seriously, and will earn a living by: selling drugs, selling semen-laden underwear, selling nude or semi-nude photos, selling their bodies, and selling out their friends.
Just say no to juicemonkeys.
Special "Bi-Curious George" Ed
Very very good post.
That is the reason i laugh at professional bodybuilders that constantly place 4th place downwards.
Better to have small arms and a big wallet, normally the wallet gets bigger over time, in bodybuilders the wallet decreases exponentially with the increase in biceps size. ;D ;D
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I went to that Dan Fedeluk guy's website. Never heard of him before. Dude competed as lightheavy one year then turned pro as a superheavy the following year... He doesnt look anything special, from the pics on his site... Basically he fucked himself up with drugs for nothing?!
the year he was a light-heavy he was going through some personal stuff and he lost a ton of weight getting ready for the show. he should have been a heavyweight that year.
in terms of the top pros no he wasnt that special but he still was a big big man..and always hard as nails
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I forget which year he won the title. Was it 2003 or 2004? From memory, Nelson DaSilva won it in 2001; Mike Platz in 2002, Simon Voyer in 2005, and Fuoad Abiad in 2006.
BTW - what happened to Mike Platz?
i believe frank mcgrath was '03............ and dan was '04
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the year he was a light-heavy he was going through some personal stuff and he lost a ton of weight getting ready for the show. he should have been a heavyweight that year.
in terms of the top pros no he wasnt that special but he still was a big big man..and always hard as nails
Seems like you know a good deal, so here's my question:
He says he was trained by Scott Abel (or at least it says so on Scott's website), then he is hospitalized because of essentially the results of drug abuse, while Scott goes on and on in his blog about how he opposes drug abuse. What went wrong there?
Also, I don't know how dated the info in this thread is. Is he still in the hospital? Is he "fried" for good?
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Dying to Compete: Dying to be Huge: Dying to Win:
The Common Word is Dying
You know I would really like to do some Blogs about things I enjoy and concepts I am so jacked about like MET training, and the concepts behind it, and how people are loving it etc. That’s what I would like to do. But things keep coming up leading me in other more important directions. This Blog is an important Blog. I know, for some with open minds it may help. For others, the ones it is really aimed at, it will unfortunately for the most part, fall on deaf ears. And still for others, who don’t know much about the bodybuilding game at the competitive level, it may be more information than you wish to know.
I will make no apologies for the tone presented here. Truth is, this Blog comes with a considerable amount of anger and emotion. Even if I wait till I “cool off” to write it, that won’t help. So know that as you proceed to the content of this Blog, I will try to be as “diplomatic” as I can, but I still need to get this off my chest.
It isn’t often that contemplating a Blog keeps me up at night. This one has kept me up, tormented me, induced some tears, and as I said, also threads of anger. I haven’t been angry in a long, long time, about anything. So it takes something to knock me off my steady base. This something is not one thing, but a perpetual and steady flow of the same thing over and over again, to the point of ridiculousness. So I need to comment. If one of you gets this before it is too late, then it has been worth my time, and emotional energy.
Let’s get something straight first of all. I train athletes. I don’t train bodybuilders. I didn’t realize till lately that I never have trained bodybuilders. Whether you come to me just to lose some weight and feel better and have more energy, or you come to me to rectify metabolic damage, my approach is the same. I train athletes. You don’t even need to consider your self an athlete. But the approach we take together, will establish a mode of communication between us, where you will begin to think, feel, and act like an athlete. Eventually you will “be” an athlete, in the way you approach almost anything. That may mean being a winner or being a champion, but it will be beyond the goal for why you hired me. I’m sure most of my long term clients from all walks of life will concur on this. So again, I don’t coach bodybuilders.
Athletes under my charge may express themselves as athletes in bodybuilding shows, but that is far different than me saying I coach and train bodybuilders. Again, I just realized lately, that this is a unique distinction in me vs. other “trainers” or coaches in my field.
Now this is certainly a long pre-amble to the topic at hand. But here goes:
I have already addressed Metabolic Damage, in other Blogs, so I will leave that out of this one. Suffice it to say these ridiculous “veggie diets” and other crazy and conceptually bankrupt practices are now leaving more victims than champions, in their wake. Well in male bodybuilding the drug craziness is getting more and more absurd and I need to speak up about it.
In 2004, I Guest Posed at the Toronto Pro Show. It is a fairly low level pro show to be sure. I have been backstage at many Olympia’s and Arnold Classics, and other pro shows of course, but it had been some time for sure. What I saw there changed my desire to be involved any more at that level. I left that show after my appearance out the back door to the parking lot, and vowed not to be involved at that level ever again. This sport has changed and has gone to the dogs: Guys with welts from site injections, all up and down the vastus lateralis. Another guy “feeling nauseous” cause to hear him tell it, he stayed up all night injecting esiclene in all his body parts, some 50-60 insulin needle injections, and his body showed the signs of it. There was of course more, but I had seen and heard enough.
I honored my commitment, and left out the back door. I knew right then, that if you aren’t part of the solution then you are a part of the problem. I was supposed to have a little booth there to sign pics and be there for pics but I couldn’t even bring myself to do that. This was no longer my sport. Not the one I signed on for when the legendary Bill Pearl took me under his wing some years ago, at the 1989 Muscle Camp, Los Angeles. Bill proclaimed in front of everyone, that this guy (meaning me, was going to do something special in this sport) I never forgot that.
Since then I have watched the sport digress and devolve to even more ridiculous levels. Only in the bodybuilding industry do we indulge so much the “lunatic fringe” and the idiot base. I think it’s a travesty that one of the most read magazines out there gives a monthly column to that idiot whose arms blew up. I read that column once, just to be fair, and I was disgusted. The way he talked and degraded women, degraded himself and to my mind degraded that magazine and the whole industry, just furthered my desire to not be associated with the sport if this is what it has become, and how it would be represented. Then A and E does a special on this guy. Well he doesn’t represent me. He never has. This is not bodybuilding. I don’t know what it is, but it is not bodybuilding. And it for sure has nothing to do with athleticism.
Then we have all these genius websites where the whole goal is to dispense pharmaceutical advice. Not from trained medical professionals, mind you, but from other plateheads. It’s sad that websites exist called “…… Juice Monsters” I don’t know the content within that site and I don’t want to know. What is the message being sent here anyway?
We all know the sport has lost some people over the last few years. I don’t need to name them. Many others now have serious medical and health problems for the rest of their lives. But there are so many “wannabe” builders out there on the local levels doing this to themselves on a regular basis. The message is just not getting out there. Is competing as a pro, in a sport with ZERO rewards worth a shortened life or a life of serious medical problems??? I have tried in vain to counsel many guys and gals that the “more is better mentality” is a myth. But I am losing that battle. At the same time I am also losing acquaintances and friends, who are just even a little susceptible to the prevailing myth out there, that modern bodybuilding is a chemical arms race. I know several competitors who have died.
In the last year I have received e-mails from guys that fall in to these categories. 13 with chronic hepatic dysfunction serious enough that they may not be able to work again. 7-8 with failing kidneys, diseased kidneys, and general renal type ailments. A whopping 12 have contacted me since the end of last season with serious cardio myopathies, of various types. Many are also reporting undisclosed blood borne bacterial infections, and staph infections from dirty needles and dirty drugs (home brews so readily available now)
With the overuse of insulin now many have pancreaitis of varying degrees and forms. Many need to be and will be on medication for the rest of their lives, if their lives are not shortened. They are worried, they are afraid, and they just want to feel, and be normal again. That will never happen. Why?
The bodybuilding mentality to which they were over exposed for so long, got to them. With all the attention and various websites that cater to the “juiced produced mentality” it can understandably be enticing. Even a “just one stack to see the difference” type of thinking has lead to irreparable medical damage and death in so many. Few talk about it beyond being gym gossip. It is the dirty little secret that exists everywhere but everyone assumes it is that one “isolated guy” in their area. Wake up people and see the warning signs. I do not need to lose any more people I know in this industry. I almost lost one last week.
His, is not my story to tell so I won’t. Like so many he didn’t want to hear my message of “less is fine” and time to hang up the posing trunks when medical conditions arise! So like so many, they avoid me, in regards to information on what they are doing and how they are doing it. They just don’t want to hear it from me. (then it is too late) 6 people I know have now died, and they were in their 30’s to 40’s. Others are permanently sick, for the rest of their lives. All because of the “internet bodybuilding extreme mentality” out there.
People think on various sites, Scott doesn’t know what is going on these days. Let me enlighten you Einsteins out there. Scott knows! Scott knows more than all of you. Scott chooses to not be a part of that abuse mentality. It’s ironic that I have been to the top in this sport and stayed there for many years, with many clients. Yet people that have never been there think they know better. Listen; to all you internet “experts” out there. Because you post 1,000 times on various boards, doesn’t mean you know what you are talking about, or that you have anything meaningful to say.
Ok, where to start on all of this. Last year, three different people wrote to me to dial them in for one of the top pro shows in the sport. I turned every one of them down for various reasons. One guy sent me his stack to “look at” It was something like this:
Growth Hormone, IGF1, Insulin, Testosterone Propionate, Sustanon, Trenbolone, Decca Durabolin, Masteron, Proviron, Winstrol V, Cytomel, Cytadren, Arimidex, Clenbuterol, Anavar. We won’t even discuss doses. Of course on top of that, he was now taking medication for high blood pressure, and medication for high cholesterol. And like almost 70% of long term steroid users I have come in contact with in the last little while, he was also on anti-depression medication, anti-anxiety medication, and sleep medication. That is 20 different kinds and strengths of pharmaceuticals being metabolized in one body, at one time, in supra physiological doses. His liver function tests would be off the chart if he even bothered to get any. And the thing about liver function, is that it may not get you now, but when it does it will be intense and it will be serious. Some have found out the hard way that four months after their last stack, they go on an antibiotic or something, and then all hell breaks loose medically speaking.
The same goes for renal impairment. Trenbolone is causing serious renal issues in the bodybuilding world.
Of course I turned him down. I won’t be a part of that at any level. What jolted me more, was that he wanted me to look at the stack in case I wanted to “add anything” What are you insane?
Cutting edge medical experts say that the root of all disease, ailments and cancers of the modern era is a result of too much acid in the blood. That is the one root cause regardless of how it manifests in varying forms of cancer. (Wade could comment on this in greater detail I am sure) What these experts also know is that the one biggest contributor to too much acid in the blood is prescription pharmaceuticals!!!! So imagine the effect on metabolism and physiology when someone willingly takes 20 + medications at a time. If this is the number one contributor to serious illnesses and cancers and heart diseases, then why would anyone be so insane with their bodies? This just sets it all in motion. And it may not happen during that “stack” of abuse. It may come weeks or even months afterward.
Most people I am hearing from now have a mountain of regret. They want to change other bodybuilder’s perspectives but they don’t want to put their own case out there for public consumption. Most people will jump from site to site and one person’s medical emergency just becomes the latest juicy gossip in the gyms and on the Forums of various sites. It’s human nature I guess.
But it is a much different perspective when someone you know, is in hospital, and you go to see him and he is on life support; combinations of machines keeping him alive, and not knowing if he may see morning. No family or family member should have to endure that. And for what?
My friend Tommy Hall wasn’t lucky enough to get more than one warning. His warning like many bodybuilders writing me now, began with sleep apnea. Sleep apnea for most bodybuilders should not be an issue. It is usually for fat people. But gaining weight through “bulking up” or by being fat is still a structural strain. Tommy’s next warning was a massive heart episode that took his life.
I sat at his visitation, for the entire time. I could only wonder why, and I could only see tragedy and waste. The week before he died he had told an associate, “I just want to be a freak!” He never got his wish. He had stopped asking me for advice on such issues because once again, he didn’t like my message.
This leaves me with another issue. Expertise. What does that even mean in bodybuilding now? I know what it means to me, but it seems to mean something else out there to those who claim to be “Hardcore” Recently I know a guy won a high level championship last fall. He reportedly weighed about 225lbs at his show. Right after his show he was told (by his top level coach) to get up to 300 lbs by Christmas! What are you kidding me? This is expert advice? How is gaining 75 pounds in three months functional, healthy, or related to performance enhancement. That kind of sudden and substantial weight gain would produce performance breakdowns of all kinds, not enhance strength. The messages are just getting more and more perverted all the time. And they make no sense to me, or little at all.
And to the person or people advocating the previous mentioned “pro stack” above. How is that an application of “expertise” or “expert advice?” It is instead the application of drug abuse in a sub culture that condones and embraces it. It is the application of “extremism”
And before people start saying I am trashing “so and so” let’s get something straight once and for all. There is an old saying, “small minds talk about people, average minds talk about events, superior minds talk about concepts” When I talk about methods of training or dieting as making no sense, I am talking about any concepts behind them, not the people behind them. And when it comes to the lunacy behind the “juice mentality” the same goes.
The problem is that it is just so pervasive of an attitude out there. These websites are terrible for mis-information, and really is the blind leading the blind.
I’m tired of hearing wannabe bodybuilders telling each other that Dr’s don’t know what they are talking about. Just once I want that statement to come from a bodybuilder with a medical degree. But as always it takes an education, to appreciate an education. But I’ll tell you, Dr.’s do know how to read blood tests. They know how to read kidney enzymes, and liver enzymes indicative of acute illness. They know how to determine if cardiac function is normal or distressed. The fact is it’s the bodybuilders that don’t know what they are talking about when it comes to this stuff. Ignorance is no longer bliss.
Recently a client sent me this link: http://www.professionalmuscle.com/forums/showthread.php?t=16710
It is basically someone confessing to a near death experience from his stack. I don’t go to other bodybuilding sites, ever. I read this because of questions and concerns my client had regarding the thread. But it just reinforces to me how crazy and out of hand all of this is getting and has gotten. The experts that exist in bodybuilding as I have said many times, exist more in reputation than in real terms. It’s hurting many out there. It’s time for one person to say crazy, when crazy is what it is.
It is time to get people to train with a concept of self-respect and dignity. These don’t come to you from getting bigger. They come to you from a “process of learning about yourself” while undergoing a long term project like bodybuilding or athletics etc.
You won’t find out what you are made of from doing a stack and getting bigger. That’s an easy thing. I’ve always said in my seminars that the problem I have always seen with the “juice mentality” is that if you are a jerk at 180 lbs, and you take up bodybuilding but don’t work on your self, and go do a stack and gain some size, well guess what, now you are just a bigger more visible jerk, at 220 lbs or whatever. We need to stop this insanity folks. Take a look at what you are doing on levels beyond your local affiliations.
One thing is also quite clear. Some of these local bodybuilding scenes are messed up! They are some of the most hostile and toxic environments I have ever witnessed. I am talking now about the social subculture of it. We can clean this up, but it needs to start somewhere. What is going on now is crazy. What I call dis-oriented thinking. Some people’s thinking strategies, are in reality, stinking tragedies!! Do you want to die, or be permanently ill because of a desire to get a better body, or to say you competed at the "next level"
Oh, this could never happen to me, is what most people are thinking. I beg to differ given the mentality out there right now.
Am I saying I don’t train people for bodybuilding shows? Of course not. As of right now I have about 9 people in Nationals this year. I am hoping through their experience with me by the time they take to the stage they will be “athletes” not bodybuilders. You don’t have to compete to excel. As many of the Figure girls with Metabolic Damage know, I have counseled most of you to not even compete for a few years. Often that is the best thing to get back in touch with why you started doing all of this to begin with.
Last night on Larry King, he had on some previous years contestants from American Idol, none of them winners. When asked what their overall message was, they all conveyed that they are all doing better and doing vocations in life now because of their experience with American Idol. They noted you don’t need to win on that show to benefit from it, long term. It changed their lives.
It gave me pause to acknowledge there is so little of that experience in the bodybuilding industry. So many of these competitive environments are so toxic and hostile, and competitive not in a way that encourages but in a way that perverts the competitive spirit.
It is not supposed to be about all of this folks.
I know I am getting a little side tracked. The reason is, even thinking about this for too long saps my positive energy as well.
But there is an old saying among coaches. “If you want me to be responsible for cooking the meal, then you better let me buy the groceries” Our industry needs a serious overall in terms of who is representing it, what voices are being heard, and what is the prevailing mentality and thinking strategies behind it all.
I’m tired. I’m tired of getting letters from strangers frightened and confused about sudden medical issues that have now taken their lives in a completely different direction: A direction totally avoidable. I’m tired of hearing about former clients, acquaintances, and competitors dying or almost dying, of the most ridiculous of “un-natural causes”
Why? To have a 20 inch arm? To compete in a pro show? It’s crazy. It makes no sense. If this is what it takes now, then count me out. And let me be perfectly clear, if any of you think this is indeed what it takes, then it was never yours in the first place.
Winning, earning, and triumphing, they come from within. Not from a bottle. You can’t ever inject that spirit.
I love the fact that many of you with real lives come to me for coaching. It takes expertise to get people to reach goals worthy of accomplishing. But it is also nice to have and keep a healthy perspective. Bodybuilding as a process, like so many other processes out there, can change your life, for sure. Competition, can be a worthwhile part of that, but the process is where the winning comes from, the contest is second to that.
I don’t have the answers and I don’t claim to have the answers. I do know right now, in this industry, the messages getting out there to the masses are mixed up and screwed up. I think it is time to get back to some basics; hard work, real sacrifice in the gym and at the dinner table; self-respect, self dignity, self-reliance, self-motivation.
The antithesis of that is that the notion that the path to gold lies in supplements, drugs, powders, potions, lotions, schemes, and voodoo.
and yet
ssb = 10000+ members
outlaw = 10000+ members
offshore = 10000+ members
conclusion,,,
every one in the sport use hormones,, ~30000 lifters,,,do you know how much 30000 people is ?? it is the all industry,,hell 10000 people is the whole industry,,
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Nice to see Scott speaking with some care and thoughtfulness. Last time I saw him, and this is going back 15-17? years, he was throwing his 'weight' around in the gym so much he was asked to leave. He was a prick and was universally disliked.
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I liked that Scott's blog... Seems to care for his trainees even after the show, keeps their long-term well being in mind...
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Seems like you know a good deal, so here's my question:
He says he was trained by Scott Abel (or at least it says so on Scott's website), then he is hospitalized because of essentially the results of drug abuse, while Scott goes on and on in his blog about how he opposes drug abuse. What went wrong there?
Also, I don't know how dated the info in this thread is. Is he still in the hospital? Is he "fried" for good?
i dont really know scott or the type of relationship he and dan had. so i cant really answer that question. just read back as to what scott said. he said he tried telling dan about the dangers of over usage..and dan didnt want to listen.
as of yesterday i believe dan is still in the hospital. he had to have another procedure done to fix some pre-existing problem he had with his heart(again not drug related).
is he fried for good??
well hes done with competing. but i guess he'll be ok. lots still isnt known as far as what exactly the long term effects will be. the doctors have put alot of restrictions on things that he has to watch and not do.
but like anybody whose heart stops and flatlines ............he'll never be the same :-\
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Nice to see Scott speaking with some care and thoughtfulness. Last time I saw him, and this is going back 15-17? years, he was throwing his 'weight' around in the gym so much he was asked to leave. He was a prick and was universally disliked.
ya he use to be like that but has changed. and from what my friends tell me who work with him..hes a pretty good guy.
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i dont really know scott or the type of relationship he and dan had. so i cant really answer that question. just read back as to what scott said. he said he tried telling dan about the dangers of over usage..and dan didnt want to listen.
as of yesterday i believe dan is still in the hospital. he had to have another procedure done to fix some pre-existing problem he had with his heart(again not drug related).
is he fried for good??
well hes done with competing. but i guess he'll be ok. lots still isnt known as far as what exactly the long term effects will be. the doctors have put alot of restrictions on things that he has to watch and not do.
but like anybody whose heart stops and flatlines ............he'll never be the same :-\
Yeah... In the relatively brief time I have been paying attention to the sport, I have seen how alot of attention is given to those guys who are making fast progress on drugs, whether at the local gym level where some 19 yr old frat boy balloons up on test, to the higher levels where mags pay alot of attention to some kid who is obviously on too much drugs... but there is no one there when they crash, when the health problems set in... it's like people don't want to know..
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Well, I hope Dan gets better !
seems like a good guy
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And what of scotts own cycle history?
I agree the types of stacks that are being used now are really over the top ,but used properly and not all the time in sane amounts with blood work and monitering from your doctor,I see nothing wrong with that.
Look at guys from the 70s when there stacks were used to get ready for a show are they dropping dead now?Last time I looked alot of the old timers look pretty damm good and healthy,hell ones even a governer ;D
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Well, I hope Dan gets better !
seems like a good guy
thanx and im sure he'll apreciate it. i'll pass it along to him next time i see him.
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Is it Dan FEDELUK Scott is talking about ? (the guy in the hospital?)
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Is it Dan FEDELUK Scott is talking about ? (the guy in the hospital?)
yes. his response to scotts blog was posted here as well.
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is he fried for good??
well hes done with competing. but i guess he'll be ok. lots still isnt known as far as what exactly the long term effects will be. the doctors have put alot of restrictions on things that he has to watch and not do.
but like anybody whose heart stops and flatlines ............he'll never be the same :-\
What exactly happened and any idea what caused it, I mean a bit more specifically? He says both his kidneys and liver shut down, plus heart trouble.
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I'm glad somebody is saying the truth
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What exactly happened and any idea what caused it, I mean a bit more specifically? He says both his kidneys and liver shut down, plus heart trouble.
He did all that to himself before he even competed as a pro?! What was he gonna do if he had gotten to compete in the pro ranks, mashed up his pancreas with cilantro and olive oil?!!!
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Dan Fedeluk was the guy that got pro natural ... or so he claimed and now this? Kind of ironic dont you think
Hope he recovers completely though
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Dan Fedeluk was the guy that got pro natural ... or so he claimed and now this? Kind of ironic dont you think
Hope he recovers completely though
Dan never claimed he was natural
come on he turned pro as a super-heavy
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Dan never claimed he was natural
come on he turned pro as a super-heavy
What's that supposed to mean? Ronnie Coleman was natural when he turned pro... I read that on Mayhem!
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What's that supposed to mean? Ronnie Coleman was natural when he turned pro... I read that on Mayhem!
Lol.....
;D
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are you really surprised by any of that, i don't understand that these guys take so much shit yet they're still only 260 pounds onstage, they should be at least 400 taking all that stuff.
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are you really surprised by any of that, i don't understand that these guys take so much shit yet they're still only 260 pounds onstage, they should be at least 400 taking all that stuff.
260 onstage is pretty fucking big if you ask me ???
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Nowadays you have 21 yr olds who step on stage over 260.. Get with the times, Stavios:)
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260 onstage is pretty fucking big if you ask me ???
not for the amount of shit they do, insulin, GH, grams and grams of roids, site injections, you'd think these guys would have 34 inch arms, 70 inch legs and 95 inch chests on all that shit, pathetic.
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nice writing. however we have all heard these train wreck stories before. what we need is some hard statistics and science behind it before any one will believe it.
Where do you need those statistic and science, because you will not believe which those tell you, no matter what. No one stop juicing if statistic tell him that he have 40% change to get heart or kidney problems. It is just same what they told you, average BB'er doesn't believe it...until his history prove that he can get hurt, and that you know only afterwards. Try to adopt that feeling which you get when you hear that you have less than year to live, if they doesn't find you a new heart, or when you hear that you can't survive without constant dialysis, strict diet with very low protein and that you will need a new kidney. Our only pro, Marko Savolainen is great example of that. He stay in our history at the best BB'er ever, but with high price. When he start his training for his "comeback" he weight something like 200lb, maybe less. He told in the interview that he can easily could build up 24lb per six months, and just about year after that his weight was 260lb and rising. In that time he went to doctor because he need some tests for driving license, and that was end of it. He heard that his kidneys were just about dead, and he need to be under medication, go to dialysis 3 x week, stop eating protein, and easy off all training. Now his weight is 180lb and going down, and his bodybuilding days are done. Even if he get new kidney, he can't return, because it isn't going to work with all that crap + all drugs which you need with donated kidney. There is few questions to ask about all this; Have any of you any idea how much juice you need to use if you want to grow 24lb for every six months. Have any of you any idea how it feels, when you know that you may have to go to dialysis for next 30 years, three times for every week of your life. Do you understand that there isn't any point drive yourself in that condition at age of 30, just because you have an illusion that you may be best, because you will not ever be anything but wannabe. I don't know how many BB*ers there is in USA, but I bet there is few hundred thousands of them. Less than 1% get pro card, or any sponsorship, or any money from the sport. You have to be gifted to belong that less than 1%, you have to be gifted with abnormal system, asbestos kidneys and stainless steel heart. You have to be willing to die for it, because that is way better chance than survive it. For every living pro, there is thousands of dead, injured or burnout wannabes.
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i dont really know scott or the type of relationship he and dan had. so i cant really answer that question. just read back as to what scott said. he said he tried telling dan about the dangers of over usage..and dan didnt want to listen.
You can lead a horse to water, but you can't make him drink!
Much like an addict, you can counsel the person all you want, but until the day comes where that person wants to stop his/her habit, it's not going to happen.
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Where do you need those statistic and science, because you will not believe which those tell you, no matter what. No one stop juicing if statistic tell him that he have 40% change to get heart or kidney problems. It is just same what they told you, average BB'er doesn't believe it...until his history prove that he can get hurt, and that you know only afterwards. Try to adopt that feeling which you get when you hear that you have less than year to live, if they doesn't find you a new heart, or when you hear that you can't survive without constant dialysis, strict diet with very low protein and that you will need a new kidney. Our only pro, Marko Savolainen is great example of that. He stay in our history at the best BB'er ever, but with high price. When he start his training for his "comeback" he weight something like 200lb, maybe less. He told in the interview that he can easily could build up 24lb per six months, and just about year after that his weight was 260lb and rising. In that time he went to doctor because he need some tests for driving license, and that was end of it. He heard that his kidneys were just about dead, and he need to be under medication, go to dialysis 3 x week, stop eating protein, and easy off all training. Now his weight is 180lb and going down, and his bodybuilding days are done. Even if he get new kidney, he can't return, because it isn't going to work with all that crap + all drugs which you need with donated kidney. There is few questions to ask about all this; Have any of you any idea how much juice you need to use if you want to grow 24lb for every six months. Have any of you any idea how it feels, when you know that you may have to go to dialysis for next 30 years, three times for every week of your life. Do you understand that there isn't any point drive yourself in that condition at age of 30, just because you have an illusion that you may be best, because you will not ever be anything but wannabe. I don't know how many BB*ers there is in USA, but I bet there is few hundred thousands of them. Less than 1% get pro card, or any sponsorship, or any money from the sport. You have to be gifted to belong that less than 1%, you have to be gifted with abnormal system, asbestos kidneys and stainless steel heart. You have to be willing to die for it, because that is way better chance than survive it. For every living pro, there is thousands of dead, injured or burnout wannabes.
DAMN.. so that's what happened to Marko? He was great, he looked great. Sad ending...
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Scott's a funny guy he says he cant stand all the steroid abuse yet he let Scott Milne go and wouldn't train him cuz Scott M refused to take all the hight GEAR amounts ABLE was telling him to
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Where do you need those statistic and science, because you will not believe which those tell you, no matter what. No one stop juicing if statistic tell him that he have 40% change to get heart or kidney problems. It is just same what they told you, average BB'er doesn't believe it...until his history prove that he can get hurt, and that you know only afterwards. Try to adopt that feeling which you get when you hear that you have less than year to live, if they doesn't find you a new heart, or when you hear that you can't survive without constant dialysis, strict diet with very low protein and that you will need a new kidney. Our only pro, Marko Savolainen is great example of that. He stay in our history at the best BB'er ever, but with high price. When he start his training for his "comeback" he weight something like 200lb, maybe less. He told in the interview that he can easily could build up 24lb per six months, and just about year after that his weight was 260lb and rising. In that time he went to doctor because he need some tests for driving license, and that was end of it. He heard that his kidneys were just about dead, and he need to be under medication, go to dialysis 3 x week, stop eating protein, and easy off all training. Now his weight is 180lb and going down, and his bodybuilding days are done. Even if he get new kidney, he can't return, because it isn't going to work with all that crap + all drugs which you need with donated kidney. There is few questions to ask about all this; Have any of you any idea how much juice you need to use if you want to grow 24lb for every six months. Have any of you any idea how it feels, when you know that you may have to go to dialysis for next 30 years, three times for every week of your life. Do you understand that there isn't any point drive yourself in that condition at age of 30, just because you have an illusion that you may be best, because you will not ever be anything but wannabe. I don't know how many BB*ers there is in USA, but I bet there is few hundred thousands of them. Less than 1% get pro card, or any sponsorship, or any money from the sport. You have to be gifted to belong that less than 1%, you have to be gifted with abnormal system, asbestos kidneys and stainless steel heart. You have to be willing to die for it, because that is way better chance than survive it. For every living pro, there is thousands of dead, injured or burnout wannabes.
Do you have any recent pics of him?
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Do you have any recent pics of him?
marko didn just use anabolic steroids...sadly he also mixed it with all kinds of other drugs including heavy use of amphetamine. its due to the recreational drugs he was away from bodybuilding for long periods of time. its a sad story. he was doomed from the beginning.
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Scott Abel is a fkn joke. I'm from Canada and how come he never mentions that he dealt AS to all those he trained at ridiculous prices for years, had numerous local competitors near death onstage with outrageous diuretic/diet regimes, sat at Maple Leaf hockey games flexing in his spandex tank tops in the middle of fkn winter......I could go on and on and now he is holier than thou? First Class Clown!!!! Fukn hypocrite who pawns himself off as some self-proclaimed intellectual. Guys been a joke up here for a LONG time. NEXT.......
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Scott Abel is a fkn joke. I'm from Canada and how come he never mentions that he dealt AS to all those he trained at ridiculous prices for years, had numerous local competitors near death onstage with outrageous diuretic/diet regimes, sat at Maple Leaf hockey games flexing in his spandex tank tops in the middle of fkn winter......I could go on and on and now he is holier than thou? First Class Clown!!!! Fukn hypocrite who pawns himself off as some self-proclaimed intellectual. Guys been a joke up here for a LONG time. NEXT.......
thats your opinion
but he knows his stuff and his competitors do well.
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What exactly happened and any idea what caused it, I mean a bit more specifically? He says both his kidneys and liver shut down, plus heart trouble.
i dont really want to get too much into his personal health issues. thats for him to tell. all i will say and know is that he had previous health issues(heart) before any gear was involved. add that to high gear use and you have problems.
not sure about his kidney and liver problems.
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yeah everyone is entitled to their opinion about Scott.
I never met him but from what I read he seems like a good guy
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Where do you need those statistic and science, because you will not believe which those tell you, no matter what. No one stop juicing if statistic tell him that he have 40% change to get heart or kidney problems. It is just same what they told you, average BB'er doesn't believe it...until his history prove that he can get hurt, and that you know only afterwards. Try to adopt that feeling which you get when you hear that you have less than year to live, if they doesn't find you a new heart, or when you hear that you can't survive without constant dialysis, strict diet with very low protein and that you will need a new kidney. Our only pro, Marko Savolainen is great example of that. He stay in our history at the best BB'er ever, but with high price. When he start his training for his "comeback" he weight something like 200lb, maybe less. He told in the interview that he can easily could build up 24lb per six months, and just about year after that his weight was 260lb and rising. In that time he went to doctor because he need some tests for driving license, and that was end of it. He heard that his kidneys were just about dead, and he need to be under medication, go to dialysis 3 x week, stop eating protein, and easy off all training. Now his weight is 180lb and going down, and his bodybuilding days are done. Even if he get new kidney, he can't return, because it isn't going to work with all that crap + all drugs which you need with donated kidney. There is few questions to ask about all this; Have any of you any idea how much juice you need to use if you want to grow 24lb for every six months. Have any of you any idea how it feels, when you know that you may have to go to dialysis for next 30 years, three times for every week of your life. Do you understand that there isn't any point drive yourself in that condition at age of 30, just because you have an illusion that you may be best, because you will not ever be anything but wannabe. I don't know how many BB*ers there is in USA, but I bet there is few hundred thousands of them. Less than 1% get pro card, or any sponsorship, or any money from the sport. You have to be gifted to belong that less than 1%, you have to be gifted with abnormal system, asbestos kidneys and stainless steel heart. You have to be willing to die for it, because that is way better chance than survive it. For every living pro, there is thousands of dead, injured or burnout wannabes.
Awesome post, thank you very much.
Could you care to elaborate a little bit more on the actual situation Savolainen is facing, nowadays? Thanks in advance.
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I didn't want to copie it here cause it is a long ass blog but he says a lot of interesting things
Come on.
Copie - Copy
Good article. People who abuse gear for a trophy or just to be "jacked" are simply fools. Exactly why I don't take anything because if I did, I'd be one of those fools who takes enormous amounts...hahah
It's just too progressive. First its gear, then GH, then IGF-1, esciline, etc. It's no longer bodybuilding, but a science experiment. And the whole "do anything to win" attitude, is a garbage cover up for hardcore drug abusers.
"I play to win!!"
Yeah, that state fair trophy is yours! hahah And it only cost you $1500. Classic.
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Awesome post, thank you very much.
Could you care to elaborate a little bit more on the actual situation Savolainen is facing, nowadays? Thanks in advance.
That is actual situation, nowadays. Dialysis 3 times a week, not much hope about organ donor, he is training very lightly, some kickboxing, some weight training. He have a doctors order to diet down to under 80kilos/160lb, which is in near future. He can intake something like 0,2grams of protein per kilo of body weight, he may drink about 0.2 gal/day etc. He is still looking good, in fact he looks much younger now when he have stop juicing. What comes his past with rec drugs, amphetamine etc. he wasn't any heavy user. He was hooked on that shit, but he wasn't narc, like some seem to think. He used that shit to boost up his training, which isn't good idea at all, and it last quite short period, year or so. Not a big deal.
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That is actual situation, nowadays. Dialysis 3 times a week, not much hope about organ donor, he is training very lightly, some kickboxing, some weight training. He have a doctors order to diet down to under 80kilos/160lb, which is in near future. He can intake something like 0,2grams of protein per kilo of body weight, he may drink about 0.2 gal/day etc. He is still looking good, in fact he looks much younger now when he have stop juicing. What comes his past with rec drugs, amphetamine etc. he wasn't any heavy user. He was hooked on that shit, but he wasn't narc, like some seem to think. He used that shit to boost up his training, which isn't good idea at all, and it last quite short period, year or so. Not a big deal.
Dude, that's sad! Marko was an inspiration to me to train and lift weights when I was a teen. He was a mass monster and a freak. That his bbing career should end this way without him having made an impact is sad...
This is a sport that swallows young men, chews them up, and spits them out with diminished health, or so it seems...
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Come on.
Copie - Copy
Good article. People who abuse gear for a trophy or just to be "jacked" are simply fools. Exactly why I don't take anything because if I did, I'd be one of those fools who takes enormous amounts...hahah
It's just too progressive. First its gear, then GH, then IGF-1, esciline, etc. It's no longer bodybuilding, but a science experiment. And the whole "do anything to win" attitude, is a garbage cover up for hardcore drug abusers.
"I play to win!!"
Yeah, that state fair trophy is yours! hahah And it only cost you $1500. Classic.
I have been trying to find one article which I read few years ago, it was a study where some univercity was compared three group of people:
1. Group who are natural bodybuilders with good top of the line nutriments and proper way of training
2. Group who just take drugs, no training at all but same nutriments like group 1
3. Group who use drugs, and train like group 1 with same nutriments like group 1
Group 3 had a best rise of clean muscle mass, some crazy ponds for that short period of time, but only with a very short lead to group 2. Group 1 stay standing in the cloud of dust.
Science experiments, just like you say. Nothing to do with sport or genetics in that way it used to be in early days. Now your genetics is needed only for one reason. Your genetics is only protection against those drugs in your system. If your genetics doesn't work to your favor, you may end up like Marko Savolainen, trying lost your body mass as fast as you can because it may kill you before your 35'th birthday . If your ancestors was living in trees, your forehead is 2" thick and you can digest hub cap's, maybe you could have a shot for pro card after 10 to 20 years of super heavy juicing. Hey, even Jay or Kamali eventually had it.
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Scott Able knows his shit but this read is also a classic situation of the pot calling the kettle black. He uses all kinds of gear/insilin/hgh as well as the people he claims are dying. I seen him in the square one shopping center in Mississauga, Ontario and he was fucking HUGE and sliced. Very freaky looking.
PB
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Dan never claimed he was natural
come on he turned pro as a super-heavy
Yes he did, in fact if you do a search on mayhem you will find at least one thread where says this (right after his pro card)
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Anyone know of Franco Santoriello? BBer that trained clients in a local gym near my place. A friend of mine was good friends with him. Hes an example of a steroid user and rec drug abuser. Guy was into coke,meth, booze, weed. Got caught with meth police searched his house found a bunch of gear sent his ass to jail. He was a real mess, I dunno what he does now, he may still be in jail. A shame considering he has a family with 2 kids.
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Anyone know of Franco Santoriello? BBer that trained clients in a local gym near my place. A friend of mine was good friends with him. Hes an example of a steroid user and rec drug abuser. Guy was into coke,meth, booze, weed. Got caught with meth police searched his house found a bunch of gear sent his ass to jail. He was a real mess, I dunno what he does now, he may still be in jail. A shame considering he has a family with 2 kids.
Holy shit, man, that is a traggedy!!! :'(
Santoriello was THE MAN!!! Great bodybuilder with humonguous quads (they resembled Phil Hernon's a lot) and a tiny waist. Fucking terrible way to fade.... :-\
He was the cover boy for the Cybergenics supplement kit that was a success in the early 90s. What a shame....don't even get me started with Paul deMayo... :'( :'( :'(
Somebody could dig up the interview DeMayo has done with Trevor Smith for his now demised website Nuclear Nutrition.....a real shame Paul's carrer ending....
What the fuck is this sport we all learned to love, guys????? >:(
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Scott Abel was all over the place around 2000, 2001. In every edition of Musclemag international there was a piece written by him. Greg Zulak used to talk about him a lot in his UNCENSORED column, now a Muscletech official piece of
shit advertising in the mag.
Speaking of Muscletech, Scott used to be in their payroll, because I'm sure there was a lot of ads featuring Abel's pics endorsing Muscletech products. Abel has fucked up his lower back pretty badly, and went on hernia surgery to have it repaired. He came up with his shitty training protocol called INERVATION TRAINING, that he never went on explaining well what is that all about. I guess it was another piece of marketing shit or something.
Be that as it may, I don't think what Scott has said is a total waste or b.s.,just because of the source. The guy may have pretty well taken his own poison at some time, but that is not able to throw his points out in the garbage, because they are very very valid. I'm glad someone comes clean from time to time in the sport, mainly because these guys were in the making of things as we were whatching the scene unfold before our eyes. So their testmony is very regarded as someone testifying things that they happened to witness from a first observer point of view.
I still think Scott Milne could have done a lot better to himself in the sport. If Abel is the one to blame for Milne's fiasco, it's a real shame. :-\ The guy was a monster.
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I could be wrong but I don't think he trains bodybuilders
::)
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Anyone know of Franco Santoriello? BBer that trained clients in a local gym near my place. A friend of mine was good friends with him. Hes an example of a steroid user and rec drug abuser. Guy was into coke,meth, booze, weed. Got caught with meth police searched his house found a bunch of gear sent his ass to jail. He was a real mess, I dunno what he does now, he may still be in jail. A shame considering he has a family with 2 kids.
meth and coke are in every party im invited to,,i dont touch it but plenty competetive pros and amatuers use it to cut and dry out,,,i can say names but i dont wanna bring them down on a board,, its a lot more than you think,, i estimate it at 10% of all competetive bodybuilders,,you do the math
what ever this loonaateek abel is saying now,,involves a lot more than hormones,,the problems are created WHEN YOU HAVE PRE EXISISTING CONDITION YOU WERE NOT AWARE OF,,OR WHEN EVER YOU USE NARCS AND PAIN KILLERS IN ADDITION TO HORMONES,,
hormones by themselves DO NOT cause problems unless you abuse them at the 10+ grams a week for years over years none stop,, and i mean good 10-15 years none stop at those doses,,and its rare even for us pros
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meth and coke are in every party im invited to,,i dont touch it but plenty competetive pros and amatuers use it to cut and dry out,,,i can say names but i dont wanna bring them down on a board,, its a lot more than you think,, i estimate it at 10% of all competetive bodybuilders,,you do the math
what ever this loonaateek abel is saying now,,involves a lot more than hormones,,the problems are created WHEN YOU HAVE PRE EXISISTING CONDITION YOU WERE NOT AWARE OF,,OR WHEN EVER YOU USE NARCS AND PAIN KILLERS IN ADDITION TO HORMONES,,
hormones by themselves DO NOT cause problems unless you abuse them at the 10+ grams a week for years over years none stop,, and i mean good 10-15 years none stop at those doses,,and its rare even for us pros
Dont people fvck them self up using diuretics to the extreme as well? There was an article I read a few years ago that talked about how safe the actual hormones were compared to the diuretics that were used.
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duretics will f**k you up condition wize if you dont know how to apply ( timing and dose,,)
you need to know your body inorder to use duretics because it can and will flatten your muscles while taking the water out,,so you will be with no h2o but yet you will look stiff and flat,,
if you count only on duretics excessivly,,and some do,,with out dieting and using other methods to lose some of the water,,,your kidnys will suffer,,,some kidnys can suffer long some can not,,,the strong survives while the weak retires,,
in general i wouldnt count only on duretics to do the final touch,,
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duretics will f**k you up condition wize if you dont know how to apply ( timing and dose,,)
you need to know your body inorder to use duretics because it can and will flatten your muscles while taking the water out,,so you will be with no h2o but yet you will look stiff and flat,,
if you count only on duretics excessivly,,and some do,,with out dieting and using other methods to lose some of the water,,,your kidnys will suffer,,,some kidnys can suffer long some can not,,,the strong survives while the weak retires,,
in general i wouldnt count only on duretics to do the final touch,,
please elaborate.. what is too much? how do you balance what goes in to what goes out?
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duretics will f**k you up condition wize if you dont know how to apply ( timing and dose,,)
you need to know your body inorder to use duretics because it can and will flatten your muscles while taking the water out,,so you will be with no h2o but yet you will look stiff and flat,,
if you count only on duretics excessivly,,and some do,,with out dieting and using other methods to lose some of the water,,,your kidnys will suffer,,,some kidnys can suffer long some can not,,,the strong survives while the weak retires,,
in general i wouldnt count only on duretics to do the final touch,,
Thanks, I appreciate you sharing your knowledge.