Getbig Bodybuilding, Figure and Fitness Forums
Getbig Bodybuilding Boards => Nutrition, Products & Supplements Info => Topic started by: gh15 on April 14, 2007, 11:32:15 AM
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i was asked in pms to give tips about lifting,,drugs,,diets,,etc ill give one every week
tip one
the more effedrine you take,,the less bodyfat% you will hold on you,, even if you eat junk like chinease or burgerking once a day. this is one of the main secrets of how to really be big and keep the bodyfat% down at the 8%. you will keep losing bodyfat as long as you are on the effedrine even with no cardio.
effedrine is the best drug for losing bodyfat,,you do not! have to eat a completely clean diet while on it. the adding of aas will enhance the effect of effedrine to the 10th degree.
recommended effedrine product: bronkaid. very good solid product.
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don't you have to cycle off every 2 weeks. You need to go the supplement board and learn from Princess L :P
also, why don't you give tips for nattys.. we would appreciate your insight
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i was asked in pms to give tips about lifting,,drugs,,diets,,etc ill give one every week
tip one
the more effedrine you take,,the less bodyfat% you will hold on you,, even if you eat junk like chinease or burgerking once a day. this is one of the main secrets of how to really be big and keep the bodyfat% down at the 8%. you will keep losing bodyfat as long as you are on the effedrine even with no cardio.
effedrine is the best drug for losing bodyfat,,you do not! have to eat a completely clean diet while on it. the adding of aas will enhance the effect of effedrine to the 10th degree.
recommended effedrine product: bronkaid. very good solid product.
So how much do you reccomend, 1gram a day?? Will i be lean in a week or end up looking like a crack whore True Adonis??
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don't you have to cycle off every 2 weeks. You need to go the supplement board and learn from Princess L :P
also, why don't you give tips for nattys.. we would appreciate your insight
Yup i agree. And natty doesn't mean you do less than 1gram test per week. ;)
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So how much do you reccomend, 1gram a day?? Will i be lean in a week or end up looking like a crack whore True Adonis??
wtf do you have against crack whores? they serve a vital function at the right time of the day.
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I love effedrine as a fatloss supp, but after about two weeks of using it I feel like my body adapts to it...I would really like to get a better idea of how to cycle it to make it most effective....
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the need to cycle effedrine does not exist,,you can stay consistenly on it for 3 months and the results will continue to come,,also no need to cycle it with clen or t3,,i would take a break from ephedrine after couple of months because its not needed unless you get ready for s show or try to stay single digit,,if bulking i would use it a lot less because bulking at 10-12% is optimal for majority of lifters.
effedrine is by far! the best product for bodyfat loss. you get cut on ephedrine,,you get cut and stay big on ephedrine and aas.
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the need to cycle effedrine does not exist,,you can stay consistenly on it for 3 months and the results will continue to come,,also no need to cycle it with clen or t3,,i would take a break from ephedrine after couple of months because its not needed unless you get ready for s show or try to stay single digit,,if bulking i would use it a lot less because bulking at 10-12% is optimal for majority of lifters.
effedrine is by far! the best product for bodyfat loss. you get cut on ephedrine,,you get cut and stay big on ephedrine and aas.
after reading about T3 it scares the hell out of me..
why can't you cycle the clen alone?
2 weeks ECA
2 weeks clen
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wtf do you have against crack whores? they serve a vital function at the right time of the day.
Here's people that followed gh15 advise to use high doses of ephrine: ;)
(http://www.methmadness.com/addictfacesofmethL.jpg)
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is that legal? where can i buy it. what does it kost? is it a steroid?
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is that legal? where can i buy it. what does it kost? is it a steroid?
lol, stick go Goat whey, stacked with creatine...that is "like" steroids ::) ..just ask shawn ray, that fucker tried to tell us that he was clean for his over 40 video shoot
oh wait..Vyotech is....
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is that legal? where can i buy it. what does it kost? is it a steroid?
STFU noob. No it's not legal, no it's not a steroid, no it's not for you. Seriously.
gh15 seriously, what is high dos for you? For me 50mg/day is pretty much.
What do you think about pseudoephedrine, it works similar to ephedrine but is legally available and not so harsh on the heart.
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200lb bodybuilder should take 2 tablets bronkaid a day,,no need for more,,
250lb bodybuilder 3-4 tablets a day,,no need for more,,
never 1 gram unless you got a death wish,,ephedrine works although you do not feel the heart racing! ephdrine works quietly under the radar,,it works very very very good with out feeling side effects beside some weakness at times or some sickness feeling for couple of min during heavy lifting,,it is a very good drug when it comes to side effects as long as you dont abuse it,,it bring out the quality of your muscles that sit under the fat,,your physiqe starts peeling while using ephedrine and you can see what you worked so hard for,,
aas is recommended for lean mass preservation with the ephedrine.
ephedrine will become dangerous if you decide to take 15 tablets a day of bronkaid,,
keep it at the dose i mentioned for optimal bodyfat loss and zero sides.
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STFU noob. No it's not legal, no it's not a steroid, no it's not for you. Seriously.
gh15 seriously, what is high dos for you? For me 50mg/day is pretty much.
What do you think about pseudoephedrine, it works similar to ephedrine but is legally available and not so harsh on the heart.
donkey you are wrong..vasopro is ephedrine and it is legal
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Here's people that followed gh15 advise to use high doses of ephrine: ;)
(http://www.methmadness.com/addictfacesofmethL.jpg)
:D :D :D
i love them all,,beautiful people :D
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i was asked in pms to give tips about lifting,,drugs,,diets,,etc ill give one every week
tip one
the more effedrine you take,,the less bodyfat% you will hold on you,, even if you eat junk like chinease or burgerking once a day. this is one of the main secrets of how to really be big and keep the bodyfat% down at the 8%. you will keep losing bodyfat as long as you are on the effedrine even with no cardio.
effedrine is the best drug for losing bodyfat,,you do not! have to eat a completely clean diet while on it. the adding of aas will enhance the effect of effedrine to the 10th degree.
recommended effedrine product: bronkaid. very good solid product.
why don't you write a book about performance enhancing drugs and sell it?
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donkey you are wrong..vasopro is ephedrine and it is legal
Sorry, but not in europe.
El Mariachi is european.
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You are nothing without drugs.
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STFU noob. No it's not legal, no it's not a steroid, no it's not for you. Seriously.
gh15 seriously, what is high dos for you? For me 50mg/day is pretty much.
What do you think about pseudoephedrine, it works similar to ephedrine but is legally available and not so harsh on the heart.
rather be a noob , then a chemical body project. ill stick with meat :)
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200lb bodybuilder should take 2 tablets bronkaid a day,,no need for more,,
250lb bodybuilder 3-4 tablets a day,,no need for more,,
never 1 gram unless you got a death wish,,ephedrine works although you do not feel the heart racing! ephdrine works quietly under the radar,,it works very very very good with out feeling side effects beside some weakness at times or some sickness feeling for couple of min during heavy lifting,,it is a very good drug when it comes to side effects as long as you dont abuse it,,it bring out the quality of your muscles that sit under the fat,,your physiqe starts peeling while using ephedrine and you can see what you worked so hard for,,
aas is recommended for lean mass preservation with the ephedrine.
ephedrine will become dangerous if you decide to take 15 tablets a day of bronkaid,,
keep it at the dose i mentioned for optimal bodyfat loss and zero sides.
Okay. I thought you wrote 'the more you take the less bf you hold', which is Bullshit.
Low doses (max 50mg per day) over a few month helps you lose bf. NOT the more you take.
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rather be a noob , then a chemical body project. ill stick with meat :)
Good choice!!
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rather be a noob , then a chemical body project. ill stick with meat :)
your boyfriend will be happy to hear that you are sticking to his meat for your protein..happy sucking
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Primatene tablets contain ephedrine. You can buy the stuff at CBS or Riteaid.
I took like 4 primatene tablets with 3 shots of espresso and I couldn't sleep the whole fucking night. ;D
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Okay. I thought you wrote 'the more you take the less bf you hold', which is Bullshit.
Low doses (max 50mg per day) over a few month helps you lose bf. NOT the more you take.
Well, I haven't seen any studies looking at whether higher dosages elicit a higher thermogenic response. Have you? If you haven't you can't say that.
That said, ephedrine works great in the long run. You can run it for a year straight without diminished response. Actually the effect increases over time.
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Well, I haven't seen any studies looking at whether higher dosages elicit a higher thermogenic response. Have you? If you haven't you can't say that.
That said, ephedrine works great in the long run. You can run it for a year straight without diminished response. Actually the effect increases over time.
It's getting very very harsh on the heart in higher doses. It may have a higher thermogenic response, which i doubt somehow, but the side effects raise a lot too.
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hey donkey, how's life?
hi gh15;
is there any product with ephedrine in europe?
can we european get it online from the usa?
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It's getting very very harsh on the heart in higher doses. It may have a higher thermogenic response, which i doubt somehow, but the side effects raise a lot too.
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he is right,,what i wrote abbout the more the better is not what i meant,,it was just saying that if you take 2 its gonna be better than 1 type of thing,,,
def do not take 10 tablets a day,,because then you will feel the heart,,you wont be able to sleep well,,and who knows you may die in your sleep too,,ephedrine from my experience does not show any major side effects that you can feel,,so in very high dose it will just take you 6 feet under with out you even feeling it,,just drop dead out of theblue typa thing,,
be careful with high doses,,1-4 tablets 25-100mg is plenty,,
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hey donkey, how's life?
hi gh15;
is there any product with ephedrine in europe?
can we european get it online from the usa?
yes type into your computer the word ephedrine,,it is all over europe easy to get,,the problem is in usa when it comes to pure ephedrine but you know the americans..if you dont get in the front door,,you get in from the back door,,bronkaid from amazon.com is exactly same thing as ephedrine if not better because you know what you get by reputable pharmas
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i take 3 a day of bronkaid.
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how is the dosing on the little white circular unexo tablets from the UK?
they dont contain the guifenesin that the bronkaid contains, but what about their ephedrine content?
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how is the dosing on the little white circular unexo tablets from the UK?
they dont contain the guifenesin that the bronkaid contains, but what about their ephedrine content?
Work great for me. I think they are 30mg and they feel spot on.
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hey donkey, how's life?
hi gh15;
is there any product with ephedrine in europe?
can we european get it online from the usa?
Fine!!
http://www.gigasnutrition.com/product_info.php/products_id/43/cPath/16/fatburner/dyma-burn-xtreme.html
http://www.gigasnutrition.com/product_info.php/products_id/278/cPath/29/extreme-burner/extrem-fatburner.html
http://www.gigasnutrition.com/product_info.php/products_id/337/cPath/29/extreme-burner/stacker-2.html
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awesome, is there a difference between vaso pro ephedrine HCL and BRONKAID ephedrine sulfate? is one better then the other?
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What about the sympathetic nervous system adaptation to beta agonists? Isn't there an increase in parasympathetic nervous system output, along with receptor down regulation of adregernic receptors?
This also occurs with cholinergic receptor excitability at higher beta receptor stimulation.
What do you for the period after the 4 hour active half life of ephedrine, when your BMR slows down?
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Funny, over on MD there was a discussion about the affects of albuterol as a fat burner. Are we talking the same bronkaid that asthmatics use?
BRONKAID:
For the temporary relief of shortness of breath, tightness in chest, wheezing and cough associated with bronchial asthma. Helps loosen phlegm (mucus) and thin bronchial secretions to rid the bronchial passageways of bothersome mucus and drain bronchial tubes.
Active Ingredients: Ephedrine Sulfate (25 mg), Guaifenesin (400 mg)
Inactive Ingredients: Croscarmellose Sodium, Hydroxypropyl Methylcellulose, Magnesium Stearate, Magnesium Trisilicate, Microcrystalline Cellulose, Polyethylene Glycol, Povidone, Starch
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vaso pro hcl has 200 mg of guaifenesin and it never bothers me
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I'VE TAKEN EPHEDRINE ON AN OFF FOR 10 YEARS WHAT YOU DO IS TAKE THE ECA STACK EPHEDRINE CAFFIENNE PILL LOW DOSE ASPRIN . FIFTY ML TWICE A DAY IF YOU WANT TO LOSE WEIGHT. IF YOU WANT ENERGY FIFTY ML PLUS CAFFIENNE ASPRIN 30 TOO FORTY MINUTES BEFORE YOU TRAIN. I LIVE IN MASS. ITS LEGAL YOU CAN GET IT AT SUPPLEMET STORES OR AT MINI MART ITS FOR ASTHMA. SAME STUFF ANYONE WHO HAS TASTED EPHEDRINE KNOWS THAT TASTE DON'T TAKE IT ON A EMPTY STOMACH OR LATE NIGHT IF YOU WANT TO GO TO SLEEP THATS STUFF IS GREAT
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I'VE TAKEN EPHEDRINE ON AN OFF FOR 10 YEARS WHAT YOU DO IS TAKE THE ECA STACK EPHEDRINE CAFFIENNE PILL LOW DOSE ASPRIN . FIFTY ML TWICE A DAY IF YOU WANT TO LOSE WEIGHT. IF YOU WANT ENERGY FIFTY ML PLUS CAFFIENNE ASPRIN 30 TOO FORTY MINUTES BEFORE YOU TRAIN. I LIVE IN MASS. ITS LEGAL YOU CAN GET IT AT SUPPLEMET STORES OR AT MINI MART ITS FOR ASTHMA. SAME STUFF ANYONE WHO HAS TASTED EPHEDRINE KNOWS THAT TASTE DON'T TAKE IT ON A EMPTY STOMACH OR LATE NIGHT IF YOU WANT TO GO TO SLEEP THATS STUFF IS GREAT
for nattys the aspirin is debatable/not needed...the supplement board has topics on this..
princess L is the goddess of information
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ASPRIN THINS YOUR BLOOD THE STACK WORKS FASTER
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ASPRIN THINS YOUR BLOOD THE STACK WORKS FASTER
on gear yes, not sure about the effects for nattys
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yes type into your computer the word ephedrine,,it is all over europe easy to get,,the problem is in usa when it comes to pure ephedrine but you know the americans..if you dont get in the front door,,you get in from the back door,,bronkaid from amazon.com is exactly same thing as ephedrine if not better because you know what you get by reputable pharmas
Is this good?
www.stackerstore.com
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I'VE TAKEN EPHEDRINE ON AN OFF FOR 10 YEARS WHAT YOU DO IS TAKE THE ECA STACK EPHEDRINE CAFFIENNE PILL LOW DOSE ASPRIN . FIFTY ML TWICE A DAY IF YOU WANT TO LOSE WEIGHT. IF YOU WANT ENERGY FIFTY ML PLUS CAFFIENNE ASPRIN 30 TOO FORTY MINUTES BEFORE YOU TRAIN. I LIVE IN MASS. ITS LEGAL YOU CAN GET IT AT SUPPLEMET STORES OR AT MINI MART ITS FOR ASTHMA. SAME STUFF ANYONE WHO HAS TASTED EPHEDRINE KNOWS THAT TASTE DON'T TAKE IT ON A EMPTY STOMACH OR LATE NIGHT IF YOU WANT TO GO TO SLEEP THATS STUFF IS GREAT
meltdown.
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STFU noob. No it's not legal, no it's not a steroid, no it's not for you. Seriously.
gh15 seriously, what is high dos for you? For me 50mg/day is pretty much.
What do you think about pseudoephedrine, it works similar to ephedrine but is legally available and not so harsh on the heart.
is still legal i can go down to the bodega and get a bottle right now.
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the need to cycle effedrine does not exist,,you can stay consistenly on it for 3 months and the results will continue to come,,also no need to cycle it with clen or t3,,i would take a break from ephedrine after couple of months because its not needed unless you get ready for s show or try to stay single digit,,if bulking i would use it a lot less because bulking at 10-12% is optimal for majority of lifters.
effedrine is by far! the best product for bodyfat loss. you get cut on ephedrine,,you get cut and stay big on ephedrine and aas.
what if your natural? doesn't seem like a good idea to take stimulants if you're trying to build size.
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what if your natural? doesn't seem like a good idea to take stimulants if you're trying to build size.
yeah, adding to that, should you take it the same way during a bulk? Should you take it in the morning on an empty stomach before cardio? differences between natural and users?
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on gear yes, not sure about the effects for nattys
asprin thins blood period
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What about the sympathetic nervous system adaptation to beta agonists? Isn't there an increase in parasympathetic nervous system output, along with receptor down regulation of adregernic receptors?
This also occurs with cholinergic receptor excitability at higher beta receptor stimulation.
What do you for the period after the 4 hour active half life of ephedrine, when your BMR slows down?
;)
First of all, there is no increased PANS increased output to an inceased SANS stimulation?! They have opposite effects on the body! ::) Probably should study up on the Autonomic Nervous System just a bit more...you've almost got it.
Second, the downregulation of adrenergic receptors has nothing to do with PANS stimulation, adrenergic receptors are sympathetic!!! Parasympathetic are M receptors, completely different ;D
"This also occurs with cholinergic receptor excitability at higher beta receptor stimulation." What also occurs??? Again, you're absolutely backwards, cholinergic simply means that the substrate it responds to is ACTH..... and higher beta receptor stimulation would be due to an increased adrenergic stimulation ;D
"What do you for the period after the 4 hour active half life of ephedrine, when your BMR slows down? " OH, don't know where to start with this one ::) Are you implying that within four hours of ingesting Ephedrine...what???!! You fall asleep??
Good post!
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on gear yes, not sure about the effects for nattys
Yes, there is no dispute that aspirin thins the blood. On juice or not...it still has the same effect on the COX enzyme by inhibiting platelets from releasing Thromboxane, TXA2. Which is why it's being recommended now as a normal everyday supplement for anyone. Do a simple pubmed search.
A few people on the nutrition board simply want to re-invent the wheel and decided that aspirin is not needed for the ECA stack...that's fine, but other then being tuff-guy-rebels they really have nothing to base that on ;)
Princess L is similar to TA....they're both great at cut and paste ;)
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i was asked in pms to give tips about lifting,,drugs,,diets,,etc ill give one every week
tip one
the more effedrine you take,,the less bodyfat% you will hold on you,, even if you eat junk like chinease or burgerking once a day. this is one of the main secrets of how to really be big and keep the bodyfat% down at the 8%. you will keep losing bodyfat as long as you are on the effedrine even with no cardio.
effedrine is the best drug for losing bodyfat,,you do not! have to eat a completely clean diet while on it. the adding of aas will enhance the effect of effedrine to the 10th degree.
recommended effedrine product: bronkaid. very good solid product.
How would you answer to Palumbo's opinioon about Ephedra being a stimulant and thus too much stress for the CNS and increased cortisol levels, less effective then Clen! Also you also have to take it with aspirin 3-4 times a day - and as far as ai know aspirin is liver , renal toxic and and not very good on the stomach as well!
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like GH saidit's probably ok if you're on AAS but if you're natural youdon't need anything interfering with your appetite, cortisol levels and sleep.
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How would you answer to Palumbo's opinioon about Ephedra being a stimulant and thus too much stress for the CNS and increased cortisol levels, less effective then Clen! Also you also have to take it with aspirin 3-4 times a day - and as far as ai know aspirin is liver , renal toxic and and not very good on the stomach as well!
I would tell him to stick to what he does best, looking like shit and selling fake gh... ;D
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Which is why it's being recommended now as a normal everyday supplement for anyone. Do a simple pubmed search.
Recommended to everyone by whom? I would say popping aspirin everyday is a bad idea for most. Even the 'baby aspirin a day' being ultimately healthy is debatable.
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Recommended to everyone by whom? I would say popping aspirin everyday is a bad idea for most. Even the 'baby aspirin a day' being ultimately healthy is debatable.
No actually one baby aspirin a day is not debatable - the benefits definitely outweigh the possible side effects. but it doesnt says anywhere that is 100 % safe and here with ECA stack we are talking 3-4 times that dose.
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Yes, there is no dispute that aspirin thins the blood. On juice or not...it still has the same effect on the COX enzyme by inhibiting platelets from releasing Thromboxane, TXA2. Which is why it's being recommended now as a normal everyday supplement for anyone. Do a simple pubmed search.
A few people on the nutrition board simply want to re-invent the wheel and decided that aspirin is not needed for the ECA stack...that's fine, but other then being tuff-guy-rebels they really have nothing to base that on ;)
Princess L is similar to TA....they're both great at cut and paste ;)
I feel when I was on ECA that the aspirin really helped
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No actually one baby aspirin a day is not debatable - the benefits definitely outweigh the possible side effects. but it doesnt says anywhere that is 100 % safe and here with ECA stack we are talking 3-4 times that dose.
It is debatable. For example it can be dangerous to stop cold turkey if you have been taking it regularly. If it was proven to be beneficial for everyone all doctors would order every patient they see to take aspirin every day. They do not. Not across the board.
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Recommended to everyone by whom? I would say popping aspirin everyday is a bad idea for most. Even the 'baby aspirin a day' being ultimately healthy is debatable.
many doctors recommend that people take 1 aspiring EVERYDAY to help prevent heart disease
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many doctors recommend that people take 1 aspiring EVERYDAY to help prevent heart disease
Sure, though they weigh the benefits against the risk of getting ulcers or other sides. From what I've seen it's recommended if you have people with heart problems in the family (ie hereditary).
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bottom line- aspirin can be beneficial ,especially in juicers to prevent from blood clots , but any over 81mg for everyday use is not worth the risk!
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What about the sympathetic nervous system adaptation to beta agonists? Isn't there an increase in parasympathetic nervous system output, along with receptor down regulation of adregernic receptors?
This also occurs with cholinergic receptor excitability at higher beta receptor stimulation.
What do you for the period after the 4 hour active half life of ephedrine, when your BMR slows down?
That is not the case with Ephedrine. It is shown to become more effective over time.
Also, stop trying to sound fancy shmancy with big words that can be found in any intro physiology book. As well, if you are going to talk about beta receptors, at least mention the subset you are referring to ::)
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either way ECA works.... Take it for 3 weeks and tell me it doesnt. If you cant take the heat, then don't mess with fire.
Ephedrine
Caffine
Asprin- yes asprin. Thats the way to take the fuckin shit. Why argue? Just take the asprin. Its not much worse then the liquer all you shmoes suck down every weekend.
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either way ECA works.... Take it for 3 weeks and tell me it doesnt. If you cant take the heat, then don't mess with fire.
Ephedrine
Caffine
Asprin- yes asprin. Thats the way to take the fuckin shit. Why argue? Just take the asprin. Its not much worse then the liquer all you shmoes suck down every weekend.
Aspirin has only been shown to help in super obese women, so for the most part, it is not necessary. As well, taking that much aspirin every day could lead to an ulcer.
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If that was the case, then wouldn't it be called the EC stack? Nobody said everyday, just 12 weeks. Or during contest/photo shoot prep
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If that was the case, then wouldn't it be called the EC stack? Nobody said everyday, just 12 weeks. Or during contest/photo shoot prep
Many do call it the EC stack, I don't use Aspirin with it. Princess L also recommends this.
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Adonis says diet on cheeseburgers and ben and jerrys. Hey... to each his own..
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Adonis says diet on cheeseburgers and ben and jerrys. Hey... to each his own..
Yea, you will lose weight....but you will also be deficient in many vital nutrients and vitamins, which may not have an effect in the short term, but most definitely will in the long term.
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Guaifenesin is effective in the treatment of the thickened bronchial mucosa characteristic of asthma. It works by drawing water into the bronchi. The water both thins mucus and lubricates the airway, facilitating the removal of mucus by coughing. One may notice a sense of dry mouth when taking this medication. Water consumption is important, not only to help with dry mouth, but also to improve the effectiveness of the drug.
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A few people on the nutrition board simply want to re-invent the wheel and decided that aspirin is not needed for the ECA stack...that's fine, but other then being tuff-guy-rebels they really have nothing to base that on ;)
Princess L is similar to TA....they're both great at cut and paste ;)
Here are some previous posts on a recommended ECA stack of VasoPro, NoDoz, and baby aspirin taken shortly before cardio:
http://www.getbig.com/boards/index.php?topic=57287.0
http://www.getbig.com/boards/index.php?topic=69819.0
http://www.getbig.com/boards/index.php?topic=70793.0
Questions:
-Bronkaid or Vaspro - any difference?
-NoDoz or a cup of coffee?
-Aspirin or no?
Effectiveness of combining ephedrine & caffeine higher than either taken separately:
http://www.buyvasoproephedrine.com/ephedrine-weight-loss.html
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Asprin or no?
Aspirin ;D
A simple pubmed search will show the protective effects far outweigh any risks ;)
hahaha, funniest thing that knuckleheads will take juice, clen, t3, caffeine, and ephedra daily...and the one thing they're worried about is aspirin?! ??? ::)
Classic!!!
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Aspirin ;D
A simple pubmed search will show the protective effects far outweigh any risks ;)
hahaha, funniest thing that knuckleheads will take juice, clen, t3, caffeine, and ephedra daily...and the one thing they're worried about is aspirin?! ??? ::)
Classic!!!
Some are saying aspirin doesn't help effectiveness, rather than any concern as to healthfulness. ???
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i suppose pure dexamphetamine, methamphetamine or any other type of amphet could replace the ephedrine part of the stack?
i mean, really, what's the difference?
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hahaha, funniest thing that knuckleheads will take juice, clen, t3, caffeine, and ephedra daily...and the one thing they're worried about is aspirin?! ??? ::)
Two words, and why people are seemingly scared of aspirin: Tom Prince.
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Some are saying aspirin doesn't help effectiveness, rather than any concern as to healthfulness. ???
From the studies I have seen, the former appears to have good support.
As well, I am from the school that if I don't need it, don't take it.
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i was asked in pms to give tips about lifting,,drugs,,diets,,etc ill give one every week
tip one
the more effedrine you take,,the less bodyfat% you will hold on you,, even if you eat junk like chinease or burgerking once a day. this is one of the main secrets of how to really be big and keep the bodyfat% down at the 8%. you will keep losing bodyfat as long as you are on the effedrine even with no cardio.
effedrine is the best drug for losing bodyfat,,you do not! have to eat a completely clean diet while on it. the adding of aas will enhance the effect of effedrine to the 10th degree.
recommended effedrine product: bronkaid. very good solid product.
AAAaaaahhhh, that's not necessarly true, too much for a prolonged time will counter and have the opposite effect, since you claim to be an "expert" I'll let you figure out why this happends.
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ephedrine is not available in europe..romania here...i need oppinions on regenon...dosage wise plus ness and aspirine ( buffered ) 3 times a day.
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AAAaaaahhhh, that's not necessarly true, too much for a prolonged time will counter and have the opposite effect, since you claim to be an "expert" I'll let you figure out why this happends.
.
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AAAaaaahhhh, that's not necessarly true, too much for a prolonged time will counter and have the opposite effect, since you claim to be an "expert" I'll let you figure out why this happends.
Why don't you explain why it's going to have "the opposite effect". As has been stated ephedrine actually works better over time. Studies have been carried out for something like 50 weeks without a decrease in the thermogenic effect.
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Why don't you explain why it's going to have "the opposite effect". As has been stated ephedrine actually works better over time. Studies have been carried out for something like 50 weeks without a decrease in the thermogenic effect.
I don't know what studies show but i know from experience that just like any other drug it becomes less effective to longer i use it.
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i have done 16 weeks on ECA and it has never lost its effectivness. But it did take its toll on my metabolism, whereas it was noticably slower for about a month after my ECA use.
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I don't know what studies show but i know from experience that just like any other drug it becomes less effective to longer i use it.
Well, the studies can be found on pubmed of course, too lazy to go find them right now. How do you know it lost effectiveness though? Like noted in the studies, and like anyone who has used the stack knows, the sides of excess stimulation lessen over time. But just because you don't "feel it" doesn't mean it's not "working" anymore.
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I don't know what studies show but i know from experience that just like any other drug it becomes less effective to longer i use it.
Completely incorrect.
For our (fat loss) purpose, ephedrine becomes more effective over time.
What you are noting is the "rush" or stimulant feeling you get from taking the ephedrine. Just because you don't "feel it" doesn't mean it's not working ;)
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Completely incorrect.
For our (fat loss) purpose, ephedrine becomes more effective over time.
What you are noting is the "rush" or stimulant feeling you get from taking the ephedrine. Just because you don't "feel it" doesn't mean it's not working ;)
What do you think of once-daily eph + caffeine prior to the workout, or is eph needed thrice daily for metabolic purposes? 3 times a day eph seems intense, could interfere with sleep. Maybe i'll just go with the caffeine pills for enegy, assuming that's a good portion of the equation, unless once a day eph would help with the caffeine prior to workout.
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What do you think of once-daily eph + caffeine prior to the workout, or is eph needed thrice daily for metabolic purposes? 3 times a day eph seems intense, could interfere with sleep. Maybe i'll just go with the caffeine pills for enegy, assuming that's a good portion of the equation, unless once a day eph would help with the caffeine prior to workout.
I will give you my honest opinion on using ephedrine and caffeine pre-workout. I did not like it, especially when training legs. As you already probably know, after an intense set, you heart is normally beating wildly, now on ephedrine/caffeine it's about 10x that. Not that it was dangerous or anything, but I simply did not like the feeling.
What I much preferred was to take my ephedrine/caffeine when I wake up, and then once at lunch, this was usually about 3 hours before my workout (remember, ephedrine has a half life of 3-4 hours). This still gave me good energy for the workout, but I wasn't over-stimulated. It's a personal preference though....you should try it and find out yourself.
As for taking it 3 times per day, I did that normally. After a while you become used to the stimulatory effects and insomnia generally is not an issue. It may only be an issue the first week or so you use the stack.
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;)
Second, the downregulation of adrenergic receptors has nothing to do with PANS stimulation, adrenergic receptors are sympathetic!!! Parasympathetic are M receptors, completely different ;D
HAHAHAHA...
Let me guess, freshman physiology? Or maybe you're at a community college and it is a combo A&P class! LOL
If you don't think that the body increases parasympathetic stimulation in response to excessive sympathetic nervous system stimulation from an exogenous source, then I have no business debating with you.
HINT: You won't find it in your 100 level book. Ask an upperclassman. LOL!
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I will give you my honest opinion on using ephedrine and caffeine pre-workout. I did not like it, especially when training legs. As you already probably know, after an intense set, you heart is normally beating wildly, now on ephedrine/caffeine it's about 10x that. Not that it was dangerous or anything, but I simply did not like the feeling.
What I much preferred was to take my ephedrine/caffeine when I wake up, and then once at lunch, this was usually about 3 hours before my workout (remember, ephedrine has a half life of 3-4 hours). This still gave me good energy for the workout, but I wasn't over-stimulated. It's a personal preference though....you should try it and find out yourself.
As for taking it 3 times per day, I did that normally. After a while you become used to the stimulatory effects and insomnia generally is not an issue. It may only be an issue the first week or so you use the stack.
did it affect your sleep at all?
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did it affect your sleep at all?
Nope. Sometimes I would actually take the stack and then fall/go to asleep :o
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ephedrine is not available in europe..romania here...i need oppinions on regenon...dosage wise plus ness and aspirine ( buffered ) 3 times a day.
Then why do i have 1000 5mg tabs here in front of me??
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did it affect your sleep at all?
It affects mine like mad, hence my posting spree lately...hehe. It keeps me up to all hours, it's ridiculous.
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It affects mine like mad, hence my posting spree lately...hehe. It keeps me up to all hours, it's ridiculous.
yeah me too, that's part of the reason why i stopped taking it years ago, my problem was that i would take it before working out and i think that the stimulant combined with the increased HR from the training was too much for me even if i took it before noon, i just drink a cup of Starbucks regular coffee before training and it works fine and i have no problems from it.
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It affects mine like mad, hence my posting spree lately...hehe. It keeps me up to all hours, it's ridiculous.
Further proof that you have to try it out and see what effects the drugs have on you.
Oh, and don't ever use more than 25mg of ephedrine in a 3-4 hour time period. Not only is taking more no more effective for fat burning and lean mass preservation, but it can also lead to a physiological addiction where one needs more and more to get that "high" feeling.
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HAHAHAHA...
Let me guess, freshman physiology? Or maybe you're at a community college and it is a combo A&P class! LOL
If you don't think that the body increases parasympathetic stimulation in response to excessive sympathetic nervous system stimulation from an exogenous source, then I have no business debating with you.
HINT: You won't find it in your 100 level book. Ask an upperclassman. LOL!
I'm sorry, I didn't know we were debating. ::) I was merely exposing the HUGE flaws in your feeble attempt to try and sound smart ;D
Now please, put your daddy's physio book down, and move along "majestic" one ::)
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CQ, SF and Pobrecito. very good posts on this stuff, nothing more accurate in this thred yet in my opinion.
Anyone find they get a huge crash when the effects wear off( yawning tired etc) or feel edgy when u are on top of the "buzz" it gives??
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Further proof that you have to try it out and see what effects the drugs have on you.
Oh, and don't ever use more than 25mg of ephedrine in a 3-4 hour time period. Not only is taking more no more effective for fat burning and lean mass preservation, but it can also lead to a physiological addiction where one needs more and more to get that "high" feeling.
25 mg. seems to be the best dose.
Have you tried just caffeine pills vs. using both? How much of a difference did the stack and eph make in the equation to you? I'd rather just avoid eph unless it's a huge difference and use the caffeine for the energy.
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i've got some bodyfat as this picture can attest to but i noticed that when i dropped the ephedrine i put on 15-20 pounds in the first month and a half or so, started sleeping a lot better and my appetite came back, i'd rather lose weight the old fashioned way through cleaning up the diet and doing cardio.
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Further proof that you have to try it out and see what effects the drugs have on you.
Oh, and don't ever use more than 25mg of ephedrine in a 3-4 hour time period. Not only is taking more no more effective for fat burning and lean mass preservation, but it can also lead to a physiological addiction where one needs more and more to get that "high" feeling.
Thing is it wasn't that bad when I took it like 10 years ago. Now, it really affects me.
Anyone know why?
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25 mg. seems to be the best dose.
Have you tried just caffeine pills vs. using both? How much of a difference did the stack and eph make in the equation to you? I'd rather just avoid eph unless it's a huge difference and use the caffeine for the energy.
I've never used used caffeine alone - well, only when pulling an all-nighter for an exam :)
Clinically, the EC(A) stack (note, in many of the peer reviewed studies I have read, aspirin was not used), has been shown to make a very significant effect when in a caloric defecit. To me, the single most important aspect of the EC stack is its predisposition for lean mass preservation even when in a caloric defecit. A lot of people like it for the energy aspect in the gym, but to me the former is a much more compelling reason to use these drugs. I would highly recommend their use when dieting!
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I've never used used caffeine alone - well, only when pulling an all-nighter for an exam :)
Clinically, the EC(A) stack (note, in many of the peer reviewed studies I have read, aspirin was not used), has been shown to make a very significant effect when in a caloric defecit. To me, the single most important aspect of the EC stack is its predisposition for lean mass preservation even when in a caloric defecit. A lot of people like it for the energy aspect in the gym, but to me the former is a much more compelling reason to use these drugs. I would highly recommend their use when dieting!
Tks, i'll try it for a long while then later go just with caffeine and see what happens.
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Thing is it wasn't that bad when I took it like 10 years ago. Now, it really affects me.
Anyone know why?
Could be the quality or purity of the product.
Through my own use, I have found GH15's recommendation of Bronkaid to be spot on the money. The reason for this is that Bronkaid is made by Bayer, a legit pharmeceutical company. I have used Vasopro and Biotek ephedrine, and I don't think the quality was quite up to par with Bayer.
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How about sleep patterns as well as perceived health risk from moderate 25 mg. ephedrine doses?
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How about sleep patterns as well as perceived health risk from moderate 25 mg. ephedrine doses?
Again, very personalized issued. For me, I had no issues. But several posters in this thread have noted insomnia.
As far as health risks:
# The evidence shows that there is an increase in blood pressure attributable to ephedrine alkaloids. A relative increase in blood pressure in any population, even individuals with "normal" blood pressure, will increase the risk of heart attack, stroke, and death in that population. Many individuals are unaware that they have coronary artery disease or early heart failure because these conditions may not cause prominent symptoms until later in the course of these conditions.
# Approximately one in four adults has high blood pressure. Of those with high blood pressure, 31 percent are unaware that they have it. The extremely high prevalence of diagnosed and undiagnosed hypertension in the United States population, and the likelihood that blood pressure in obese patients is already elevated, make the effects of great concern.
# The published controlled studies of the use of ephedrine alkaloid products for weight loss cannot establish the safety profile of dietary supplements containing ephedrine alkaloids because many of the most serious risks, such as strokes or heart attacks (consequences of elevated blood pressure), arrhythmias, or worsened heart failure would not have been detected in the trials because of the design limitations of these trials. These limitations also impact certain conclusions attributed to these trials.
# Based on clinical data, the ephedrine alkaloids present in dietary supplements would be expected to have the same or similar effects as other sympathomimetics on heart rate and blood pressure. Controlled clinical trials using products containing ephedrine alkaloids confirm their typical sympathomimetic effects. These studies show a blood pressure effect from ephedrine itself, independent of any additional effect from caffeine.
# There is evidence from peer-reviewed scientific literature that a wide range of drugs with sympathomimetic activity have adverse effects (increased mortality due to heart failure and sudden death) in patients studied with congestive heart failure. These effects have been seen in relatively short-term studies. Similarly, there are studies that document that people with coronary artery disease are more susceptible to the well-known pro-arrhythmic effects of sympathomimetics. The occurrence of such an arrhythmic event is not one that requires prolonged exposure but would represent a risk associated with each use, including the first.
So essentially, the vast majority of the risks come if you have a health predisposition that the stack will exacerbate. I know you have said in the past you were in your 40s, not sure if this is correct or not, but you may want to get a check up with your doctor and see if you have any heart issues before commencing.
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Need to lose this extra weight but the heartrate/BP of an athlete according to my doctor a week ago. ;)
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Most of you are close, but not quite there, the question was for GH15, he's out there putting out dangerous "tips" and "advice" but is ill-informed on alot of what he says.
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Most of you are close, but not quite there, the question was for GH15, he's out there putting out dangerous "tips" and "advice" but is ill-informed on alot of what he says.
This type of generalization is neither useful or convincing.
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Does anyone know where I can get ephedrine in the UK?
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Does anyone know where I can get ephedrine in the UK?
Try some of the brands mentioned using ebay.co.uk. Or buy from the US from an established company that allows shipping-I buy from a UK store shipped to the US all the time.
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This type of generalization is neither useful or convincing.
If you understand what I'm getting at, it's far from a generalization and you don't understand, I can't convince you, but since GH15 is the "guru", I'll let him explain it.
He's very dangerous person for the young peope and the niave people who follow his "tips"!!!
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Then why do i have 1000 5mg tabs here in front of me??
because u are not in romania ...if u are...your dealer is reckless.
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If you understand what I'm getting at, it's far from a generalization and you don't understand, I can't convince you, but since GH15 is the "guru", I'll let him explain it.
He's very dangerous person for the young peope and the niave people who follow his "tips"!!!
Expand on what you mean otherwise it doesn't mean much. I find his info good.
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Try some of the brands mentioned using ebay.co.uk. Or buy from the US from an established company that allows shipping-I buy from a UK store shipped to the US all the time.
I've just checked eBay.co.uk and none of the results had ephedrine listed as an ingredient. They were mostly herbal alternatives like ginseng, green tea, caffeine, etc. I've bought these before and found they weren't as effective as I'd like.
I also checked the US eBay, but no-one will ship to the UK!
Are there any brand names who use the real stuff?
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Expand on what you mean otherwise it doesn't mean much. I find his info good.
What is you want me to expand on, the fact that everything he recommends requires huge amount of gear whether gaining or losing?
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What is you want me to expand on, the fact that everything he recommends requires huge amount of gear whether gaining or losing?
What's wrong with his info, specifically point by point?
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I've just looked on Amazon.com. $12.50 for 2 boxes, $39.99 shipping!!! >:(
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What's wrong with his info, specifically point by point?
Point by point? How many posts does he have on here????
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you know i dont like to get and read bunch of uncessery bullshit,,
what i said is golden and thats that. ephedrine = best fat loss drug,,it should be taken continiously and always keep its effectivness itnever decreases because i got ready plenty of times for o including last year with ephedrine as part of the stack for over 4 months,,
now to the intestone dude,,i dont suggest high or mega doses on everything,,you say it with out any back up,,read my 900 posts again before coming to me with bullcrap,,
second thing there is no need to get into medical book crap,,ephedrine never stop working on you while clen need to be cycled,,why? because i said so.
you dont want my advice? you think its risky for you? then dont follow it,, promise you i wont care either way my friend
what i say in regards to sport drugs is always always always written in stone because it kept me at the highest level of bodybuilding for quite sometime and no one who follow it ever got sick or died or even threw up,,reason is? no narcs and pain killers involved and bodybuilding life style is followed and part of these people lifes
now if youre a 40 year old 240lb 5;2 obese woman then i would say go to doc and dont follow my advice,,,rest of you guys can go to sleep with a smile ;)
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How much more effective is ephedrine when mixed with say 200mgs caffeine and 200 mgs or so of aspirin?
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Hi gh15, Can a diabetic take ephedrine??? or would this cause damage?
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Hi gh15, Can a diabetic take ephedrine??? or would this cause damage?
Not a good idea!
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Let me rant a little bit please...
Ephedrine is nothing to play around with. It affects your heart and it's highly addictive. When you take it for weeks and weeks and come off of it you feel like shit. No power, no will to do anything, you just feel like shit. That's because it's realted to amphetamine. Ephedrine burns you out, both physically AND mentally. It takes a lot of willpower to use this component in a good way, and i doubt many people here have that willpower.
If you take it together with AAS, it will affect your heart badly because it raises blodd pressure, ans AAS do too. Well, most people just up the aspirine in the hope it will cure the problem, but high doses of ASS (aspirine) over a long time will kill your stomach and might cause inflammation of the pancreas.
I have two alternatives to ephedrine, which are as effective as ephedrine and even healthier in the long run. The first is pseudoephedrine in higher doses. 60mg of pesudoephedrine have the same result on thermogenesis as 12,5mg ephedrine. two doses daily will be as effective as 25mg ephedrine yet do not have the harsh effect of the ephedrine regarding mood and heart.
The even better alternative is green tea extract. 400mg polyphenols on two doses a day together with caffeine or guarana and stacked with the amino acid L-Tyrosine melt your fat down even better than ephedrine and it's a potent antioxidant.
If you want to stay with the ephedrine anyways, i advise you to try this:
Cut the ephedrine dose in half AND take it together with green tea extract, guarana, aspirine and L-Tyrosine. THis stack burns fat faster than a frypan and is way healthier than taking higher doses of ephedrine alone. Green tea extract raises both potency and halflife of ephedrine.
Comments are welcome. ;)
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Look at thos amphetimine abuse sites. Tons of skinny folks on there. When did bodybuilding become body destroying? Wait, mid 80's? I do not understand why this sport is literally addicted to drugs. When a pro bb'er has to put blow jobs on his resume, it really makes you wonder why anyone does this to that degree to begin with.
I don't mean to rant, but if you are not going to step up on stage, why do ANYTHING to mess with your health? The majority of people could care less if your body fat is in the single digits. You will most likely elicit the same response at a true and attainable 10%.
Shit, and a supposed pro telling recreational lifters to do something bad for their health, real cool man.
Nevermind me, and god forbid a voice of reason.
Just be careful with your heart guys, you only get one.
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Let me rant a little bit please...
Ephedrine is nothing to play around with. It affects your heart and it's highly addictive. When you take it for weeks and weeks and come off of it you feel like shit. No power, no will to do anything, you just feel like shit. That's because it's realted to amphetamine. Ephedrine burns you out, both physically AND mentally. It takes a lot of willpower to use this component in a good way, and i doubt many people here have that willpower.
If you take it together with AAS, it will affect your heart badly because it raises blodd pressure, ans AAS do too. Well, most people just up the aspirine in the hope it will cure the problem, but high doses of ASS (aspirine) over a long time will kill your stomach and might cause inflammation of the pancreas.
I have two alternatives to ephedrine, which are as effective as ephedrine and even healthier in the long run. The first is pseudoephedrine in higher doses. 60mg of pesudoephedrine have the same result on thermogenesis as 12,5mg ephedrine. two doses daily will be as effective as 25mg ephedrine yet do not have the harsh effect of the ephedrine regarding mood and heart.
The even better alternative is green tea extract. 400mg polyphenols on two doses a day together with caffeine or guarana and stacked with the amino acid L-Tyrosine melt your fat down even better than ephedrine and it's a potent antioxidant.
If you want to stay with the ephedrine anyways, i advise you to try this:
Cut the ephedrine dose in half AND take it together with green tea extract, guarana, aspirine and L-Tyrosine. THis stack burns fat faster than a frypan and is way healthier than taking higher doses of ephedrine alone. Green tea extract raises both potency and halflife of ephedrine.
Comments are welcome. ;)
Very good post !!
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you know i dont like to get and read bunch of uncessery bullshit,,
what i said is golden and thats that. ephedrine = best fat loss drug,,it should be taken continiously and always keep its effectivness itnever decreases because i got ready plenty of times for o including last year with ephedrine as part of the stack for over 4 months,,
now to the intestone dude,,i dont suggest high or mega doses on everything,,you say it with out any back up,,read my 900 posts again before coming to me with bullcrap,,
second thing there is no need to get into medical book crap,,ephedrine never stop working on you while clen need to be cycled,,why? because i said so.
you dont want my advice? you think its risky for you? then dont follow it,, promise you i wont care either way my friend
what i say in regards to sport drugs is always always always written in stone because it kept me at the highest level of bodybuilding for quite sometime and no one who follow it ever got sick or died or even threw up,,reason is? no narcs and pain killers involved and bodybuilding life style is followed and part of these people lifes
now if youre a 40 year old 240lb 5;2 obese woman then i would say go to doc and dont follow my advice,,,rest of you guys can go to sleep with a smile ;)
i agree with GH15 here, ephedrine works plain and simple, now you have to figure out whether or not it's for you, if it takes too much muscle off you and robs you of sleep and appetite then don't use it, like anything else in life it's a matter of personal choice.
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I've just checked eBay.co.uk and none of the results had ephedrine listed as an ingredient. They were mostly herbal alternatives like ginseng, green tea, caffeine, etc. I've bought these before and found they weren't as effective as I'd like.
I also checked the US eBay, but no-one will ship to the UK!
Are there any brand names who use the real stuff?
Chesteze, Can be bought in most UK Chemists without prescription. Around £3.80 for 30 tabs, each contain 18mg of Ephedrine HCL.Just say you have a lot of congestion in your chest if asked and only Chest-eze has worked for you in the past.
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wow, when someone dies from this advice, can gh15 be arrested?
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In a study reported on in the American Journal of Clinical Nutrition, it was found that green tea extract resulted in a significant increase in energy expenditure (a measure of metabolism), plus also had a significant effect on fat oxidation.
While some of the effects were originally theorized to be due to the caffeine content of green tea, the researchers discovered that the tea actually has properties that go beyond those that would be explained by the caffeine.
The same amount of caffeine as was in the green tea, administered alone, failed to change energy expenditure in other studies. This led reseachers to believe that there is some interaction going on with the active ingredients of green tea that promotes increased metabolism and fat oxidation.
The researchers indicated that their findings have substantial implications for weight control. A 4% overall increase in 24-hour energy expenditure was attributed to the green tea extract, however, the research found that the extra expenditure took place during the daytime. This led them to conclude that, since thermogenesis (the body's own rate of burning calories) contributes 8-10% of daily energy expenditure in a typical cubject, that this 4% overall increase in energy expenditure due to the green tea actually translated to a 35-43% increase in daytime thermogenesis.
Of critical importance to thyroid patients is the fact that none of the research subjects reported any side effects, and no significant differences in heart rates were noticed. In this respect, green tea extract is different from some of the prescription drugs for obesity, and herbal products like ephedra, which can raise heart rates and blood pressure, and are not recommended for many individuals, in particular, those with thyroid disease who may be particularly sensitive to stimulants.
If you were to incorporate green tea into your weight loss efforts, how is the best way to go about it?
One way would be to choose a reputable brand of organic green tea at a health food store or natural grocery, and start by taking a cup of tea every day. You can also take a green tea extract, in the form of a supplement.
Either way, says dietitian Lynn Moss, M.S., R.D., a continuing education specialist for Pharmavite, you should take the green tea with meals, to reproduce the study's conditions as much as possible.
Moss also feels that green tea may be a good choice for thyroid patients because, unlike caffeine, " green tea has the potential to accelerate metabolism -- which can help weight loss slightly -- without overstimulating your adrenal glands."
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I drink a lot of green tea. I don't use ephedrine - makes me jittery, even in low doses.
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Dear Gh15,
So you think that i could take some of that Bronkaid and do cardio at least 3 times a week only and i may lose a little bit of weight?
Thanks.
Lisa
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Does the green tea have anything to do with your golden showers, hence the name "uk gold"? :-X
You need to drink a couple of litres of water for a good [clean] golden shower.
Dear Gh15,
So you think that i could take some of that Bronkaid and do cardio at least 3 times a week only and i may lose a little bit of weight?
Thanks.
Lisa
Despite 'gh15's' obvious knowledge, i can't believe taking bronkaid/epehedrine for such long periods of time is healthy. Whats wrong with dieting and cardio?
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Despite 'gh15's' obvious knowledge, i can't believe taking bronkaid/epehedrine for such long periods of time is healthy. Whats wrong with dieting and cardio?
Dieting and cardio? Oh come on now...i'm looking for the easy way out...i am a girl, remember? ;D
Lisa
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Dieting and cardio? Oh come on now...i'm looking for the easy way out...i am a girl, remember? ;D
Lisa
all kidding aside Lisa you'll lose a tremendous amount of bodyfat with it but like it was said earlier it may interfere with your sleep and it will definitely cut your appetite big time.
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all kidding aside Lisa you'll lose a tremendous amount of bodyfat with it but like it was said earlier it may interfere with your sleep and it will definitely cut your appetite big time.
But if i take one in the morning and then do cardio i should be fine, i'm thinking.
Lisa
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But if i take one in the morning and then do cardio i should be fine, i'm thinking.
Lisa
yeah if you take one really early you should be fine, just work really hard to get that shit out of your system, people need to realize that ephedrine is an amphetamine in all honesty, it's a pretty mild one if you only take 25mg. but you have to be careful with it.
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i can't believe taking bronkaid/epehedrine for such long periods of time is healthy. Whats wrong with dieting and cardio?
Because that would involve not taking any drugs and gh15 obviously doesn't believe things can be accomplished without drugs.
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now to the intestone dude,,i dont suggest high or mega doses on everything,,you say it with out any back up,,read my 900 posts again before coming to me with bullcrap,,
second thing there is no need to get into medical book crap,,ephedrine never stop working on you while clen need to be cycled,,why? because i said so.
Because "you said so" holds no merit with me no matter who you are, also, do you always recommend suppliments without doing research with the "medical book crap"?
I just scanned through the first page of your posts and this what was found, paragraph 3 and 6 just for starters;
7 rules to build phenominal physiqe from gh15 house of pain or pain in the ass depends how you look at it,,follow it to the t and you will be able to not only call yourself bodybuilders but also look like ones
1. you dont built big legs with big weights,,you build it with higher number of reps with moderate weight,,pay attention to the 110lb "fitness girl" in your gym,,when she is on the stepper and you are behind her,,take a look at her quad swip and leg development,,,i assure you she didnt achieve it with 6 plates 45lb each side of a barbell,,the fact you see bunch of whores and homos looking at you while you squat dont mean you need to put on the bar 6 plates,,you wont build NOTHING BUT YOUR EGO,,and even then it wont be for long
2. lift only as heavy as you can lift with good form! all the show off movements should be kept to either when your legs are the size of kamali legs and already been through the growing phase which was years ago for a professional bodybuilder,,or to a specific day of the month that you feel like showing off and not training the muscle for growth purpose. you dont go and put 6 plates each side of the bar when you are 200lb and the pro next to you is 270lb,,dont work this way,,,yes even if you are on drugs!! the fact you juice dont mean you need to fuck yourself up and not improve,,chose a day to do it,,once a month,,to satisfy your need to be the "best" in the gym
3. use hormones on a regular basis
4. do not quit no matter what,,keep on going and improving,,the ones who quit always try to get back after couple years,,and never get back better,,always chasing the thought of what would happen if they didnt stop training,,NEVER QUIT!
5. diet matters less when you try to pack on muscle mass,,only when cutting diet really matters!,,pay attention to form and pack in the calories with good stack of hormones,,cut and think about diet later on when wanna do a show,,if you will sit and calculate your diet from the first moment you enter a gym you will NEVER EVER GROW! remember what i told you here,,,guys who start training should never pay 100% attention to diet,,only aspect they need to pay attention in the diet is high enough protien and high enough calories
6. always use ephedrine when cutting,,always use eca when cutting,,alwyas eat less when cutting,,always eat majority of your food clean when cutting,,dont ever give up your dirty food completely when cutting because your body needs it eventhough you are cutting,,doesnt need it overdue but still need it once or twice a week,,your brain needs it!,,especially on hormones and fat burners,,you will never look your best if you completely eliminate carbs during diet phase,,you gotta have them to a limit,,and i dont talk here about no carb up phase before a show im talkin about carb intake during the all diet/prep,,if you keep it at 30grams a day for 4 months you will end up looking like SHIT and dont listen to what any one else tell you,,you need to know how to cycle carbs right! especially when cutting.
7. if you chose to use supplements,,as in protien powder,,use a good one like allmax or something so you atleast have some good shit
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Because "you said so" holds no merit with me no matter who you are, also, do you always recommend suppliments without doing research with the "medical book crap"?
I just scanned through the first page of your posts and this what was found, paragraph 3 and 6 just for starters;
7 rules to build phenominal physiqe from gh15 house of pain or pain in the ass depends how you look at it,,follow it to the t and you will be able to not only call yourself bodybuilders but also look like ones
1. you dont built big legs with big weights,,you build it with higher number of reps with moderate weight,,pay attention to the 110lb "fitness girl" in your gym,,when she is on the stepper and you are behind her,,take a look at her quad swip and leg development,,,i assure you she didnt achieve it with 6 plates 45lb each side of a barbell,,the fact you see bunch of whores and homos looking at you while you squat dont mean you need to put on the bar 6 plates,,you wont build NOTHING BUT YOUR EGO,,and even then it wont be for long
2. lift only as heavy as you can lift with good form! all the show off movements should be kept to either when your legs are the size of kamali legs and already been through the growing phase which was years ago for a professional bodybuilder,,or to a specific day of the month that you feel like showing off and not training the muscle for growth purpose. you dont go and put 6 plates each side of the bar when you are 200lb and the pro next to you is 270lb,,dont work this way,,,yes even if you are on drugs!! the fact you juice dont mean you need to fuck yourself up and not improve,,chose a day to do it,,once a month,,to satisfy your need to be the "best" in the gym
3. use hormones on a regular basis
4. do not quit no matter what,,keep on going and improving,,the ones who quit always try to get back after couple years,,and never get back better,,always chasing the thought of what would happen if they didnt stop training,,NEVER QUIT!
5. diet matters less when you try to pack on muscle mass,,only when cutting diet really matters!,,pay attention to form and pack in the calories with good stack of hormones,,cut and think about diet later on when wanna do a show,,if you will sit and calculate your diet from the first moment you enter a gym you will NEVER EVER GROW! remember what i told you here,,,guys who start training should never pay 100% attention to diet,,only aspect they need to pay attention in the diet is high enough protien and high enough calories
6. always use ephedrine when cutting,,always use eca when cutting,,alwyas eat less when cutting,,always eat majority of your food clean when cutting,,dont ever give up your dirty food completely when cutting because your body needs it eventhough you are cutting,,doesnt need it overdue but still need it once or twice a week,,your brain needs it!,,especially on hormones and fat burners,,you will never look your best if you completely eliminate carbs during diet phase,,you gotta have them to a limit,,and i dont talk here about no carb up phase before a show im talkin about carb intake during the all diet/prep,,if you keep it at 30grams a day for 4 months you will end up looking like SHIT and dont listen to what any one else tell you,,you need to know how to cycle carbs right! especially when cutting.
7. if you chose to use supplements,,as in protien powder,,use a good one like allmax or something so you atleast have some good shit
so what have you contributed to this field of discussion oh intenselyfatone?
that's right, nothing!
this is why people listen to what gh15, because good or bad, he provides information.
you claim to be so concerned about 'young lifters' and what not, but you spend your all your time and energy on here merely stroking your tiny dick ego and contribute little else.
that is why people actually listen to gh and ignore you. ;)
just trying to help you stop wasting your valuable time aswell as (of particular concern) thread space.
thankyou. :D
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this is why people listen to what gh15, because good or bad, he provides information.
that is why people actually listen to gh and ignore you. ;)
just trying to help you stop wasting your valuable time aswell as (of particular concern) thread space.
thankyou. :D
"Because good or BAD he provides information"?? Are you retarded?
Like you, there's alot of people on here who don't know the good from the bad, this guy is the prime example of why bodybuilding is 90% trial and error with little scientific basis to back claims.......in his (gh15's) words "medical book crap" and "what I say is golden and thats that!!
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"Because good or BAD he provides information"?? Are you retarded?
Like you, there's alot of people on here who don't know the good from the bad, this guy is the prime example of why bodybuilding is 90% trial and error with little scientific basis to back claims.......in his (gh15's) words "medical book crap" and "what I say is golden and thats that!!
I agree, you should be VERY careful with gh15's posts. He sometimes writes without thinking too much it seems. I bet he knows his shit, but sometimes he's just too dirty while explaining.
Best example is the "the more ephedrine you take the more fat you will lose" in the first post. That's why i asked him if ONE gram per day was fine. at one g per day you would die, seriously.
His claim is absolutely wrong, ephedrine works at low doses over longer periods of time. What is even more annoying with gh15 is that it seems he doesn't care at all for health.
His cycle advises are crap too, mostly are just too high. With short esters of test you can have better results with lower doses if you aren't a professional BB. (just my opinion)
Funny thing is that he thinks that low doese test is still natural.
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"Because good or BAD he provides information"?? Are you retarded?
Like you, there's alot of people on here who don't know the good from the bad, this guy is the prime example of why bodybuilding is 90% trial and error with little scientific basis to back claims.......in his (gh15's) words "medical book crap" and "what I say is golden and thats that!!
Yeah, you haven't contributed a thing to this as far as good advice goes. Therefore you have no right to criticize others.
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Yeah, you haven't contributed a thing to this as far as good advice goes. Therefore you have no right to criticize others.
Dude, keep your personal problems with Mr. Intenseone out of this.
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I said same; where's intenseone's reasoning? Not much yet.. ::)
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"Because good or BAD he provides information"?? Are you retarded?
Like you, there's alot of people on here who don't know the good from the bad, this guy is the prime example of why bodybuilding is 90% trial and error with little scientific basis to back claims.......in his (gh15's) words "medical book crap" and "what I say is golden and thats that!!
... and all i see you saying is 'blah blah blah.'
good and bad info is actually all good, especially with such a non-exacting science like muscle building.
people will discern the good from the bad, as applicable to them, all by themselves without blowhards like you.
did you start using steroids and stimulants simply because someone said that it was a good idea?
99% of people are going to make an informed decision either way despite some message board 'guru's pro stance. the other 1% are going to take them regardless.
i can GUARANTEE, nobody's going to not take them based on your stance. if anything an anal receptor like yourself is more likely to encourage use.
when are you stupid americans going to realise that 'just say no' is the dumbest thing you can say to a potential drug user.
read donkey kong's post. he disagrees somewhat with gh 15 recommendation, but he provides information so as to help people make an informed decision based on potential pros and cons, effective alternatives and precautions. he leaves the reader to make his/her own decision.
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Dude, keep your personal problems with Mr. Intenseone out of this.
You're a loser.
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You're a loser.
No i'm not, you are criticising himyet provide nothing to the thread either. ;)
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JUST TRIED 200 MG. CAFFEINE 10-15 MINUTES BEFORE CARDIO...GREAT ALL BY ITSELF FOR HIGHER INTENSITY AND INCREASED ENDURANCE DOWN THE STRETCH.
SUGGESTION:
-TRY 200 MG. CAFFEINE BY ITSELF 10-15 MINUTES BEFORE WORKOUT
-IN LATER WORKOUTS COMPARE THE EFFECT OF ADDING GREEN TEA (MEGA T, ETC) TO THE CAFFEINE, AS PER DIRECTIONS.
THIS MIGHT BE ENOUGH, AVOIDING EPH AND ECA STACK RISKS. ;D
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JUST TRIED 200 MG. CAFFEINE 10-15 MINUTES BEFORE CARDIO...GREAT ALL BY ITSELF FOR HIGHER INTENSITY AND ENDURANCE DOWN THE STRETCH.
SUGGESTION:
-TRY CAFFEINE BY ITSELF 10-15 MINUTES BEFORE WORKOUT
-IN LATER WORKOUTS COMPARE THE EFFECT OF ADDING GREEN TEA (MEGA T, ETC) TO THE CAFFEINE, AS PER DIRECTIONS.
THIS MIGHT BE ENOUGH, WITHOUT EVEN BOTHERING WITH EPH RISKS ;D
exactly Pump, this is what i've been saying, i've been using just plain old caffiene before weights and lately cardio since the ephedrine ban and i like it.
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exactly Pump, this is what i've been saying, i've been using just plain old caffiene before weights and lately cardio since the ephedrine ban and i like it.
200 caffeine pills are more effective than coffee, to me. Big difference, still have a buzz for a second round of cardio :o
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200 caffeine pills are more effective than coffee, to me. Big difference, still have a buzz for a second round of cardio :o
I'm confused now.....if you are just looking for a little energy boost then why are you even interested in ephedrine or green tea extract? Like any stimulant, the effects will become less and less noticeable over time.
The reason to take the green tea extract or ephedrine is to aid in fat loss and muscle preservation!
Ephedrine, when used properly, is very safe. The only reason we have all these FDA regulations on it (and pseudoephedrine) is due to their use as meth precursors.
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I'm confused now.....if you are just looking for a little energy boost then why are you even interested in ephedrine or green tea extract? Like any stimulant, the effects will become less and less noticeable over time.
The reason to take the green tea extract or ephedrine is to aid in fat loss and muscle preservation!
Ephedrine, when used properly, is very safe. The only reason we have all these FDA regulations on it (and pseudoephedrine) is due to their use as meth precursors.
The usual good medical advice-take only the minimum necessary to accomplish fat/weight loss:
-Start with caffeine pre-workout + good diet.
-Add green tea later if greater loss is needed, see what the differences are.
-As a last resort substitute more risky eph for green tea, only if necessary.
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The usual good medical advice-take only the minimum necessary to accomplish fat/weight loss:
-Start with caffeine pre-workout + good diet.
-Add green tea later if greater loss is needed, see what the differences are.
-As a last resort substitute more risky eph for green tea, only if necessary.
Agreed, most important thing is the diet......have you considered the adonis principles ? LOL
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so what have you contributed to this field of discussion oh intenselyfatone?
that's right, nothing!
this is why people listen to what gh15, because good or bad, he provides information.
you claim to be so concerned about 'young lifters' and what not, but you spend your all your time and energy on here merely stroking your tiny dick ego and contribute little else.
that is why people actually listen to gh and ignore you. ;)
just trying to help you stop wasting your valuable time aswell as (of particular concern) thread space.
thankyou. :D
You can go ahead think that gh15 is the be all to end all, but since he can't answer why the ephedrine will have a reverse effect over time, he clearly doesn't know what he's talking about, a little hint..........it doesn't keep burning fat........more later!
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You can go ahead think that gh15 is the be all to end all, but since he can't answer why the ephedrine will have a reverse effect over time, he clearly doesn't know what he's talking about, a little hint..........it doesn't keep burning fat........more later!
... and all i see you saying is 'blah blah blah.'
good and bad info is actually all good, especially with such a non-exacting science like muscle building.
people will discern the good from the bad, as applicable to them, all by themselves without blowhards like you.
did you start using steroids and stimulants simply because someone said that it was a good idea?
99% of people are going to make an informed decision either way despite some message board 'guru's pro stance. the other 1% are going to take them regardless.
i can GUARANTEE, nobody's going to not take them based on your stance. if anything an anal receptor like yourself is more likely to encourage use.
when are you stupid americans going to realise that 'just say no' is the dumbest thing you can say to a potential drug user.
read donkey kong's post. he disagrees somewhat with gh 15 recommendation, but he provides information so as to help people make an informed decision based on potential pros and cons, effective alternatives and precautions. he leaves the reader to make his/her own decision.
how about: contribute or stfu? ;)
nobody gives a shit about your 'more later' crap wanker.
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GH15 what would you recommend taking in the offseason for energy. I have sleep apnea and use provigil. I fall asleep all the fucking time and it's so hard to get up for work outs. Is there anything better or would you just take ephedrine year round if you were me?
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Why don't you use the CPAP machine for your apnea? I love mine.
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Why don't you use the CPAP machine for your apnea? I love mine.
trust me, I tried, but I couldn't even fall asleep with that mask on. So now at least I "think" i'm sleeping.
Seriously though, I do need to use it, i know. You feel much better now that you have that?
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... and all i see you saying is 'blah blah blah.'
good and bad info is actually all good, especially with such a non-exacting science like muscle building.
people will discern the good from the bad, as applicable to them, all by themselves without blowhards like you.
did you start using steroids and stimulants simply because someone said that it was a good idea?
99% of people are going to make an informed decision either way despite some message board 'guru's pro stance. the other 1% are going to take them regardless.
i can GUARANTEE, nobody's going to not take them based on your stance. if anything an anal receptor like yourself is more likely to encourage use.
when are you stupid americans going to realise that 'just say no' is the dumbest thing you can say to a potential drug user.
read donkey kong's post. he disagrees somewhat with gh 15 recommendation, but he provides information so as to help people make an informed decision based on potential pros and cons, effective alternatives and precautions. he leaves the reader to make his/her own decision.
how about: contribute or stfu? ;)
nobody gives a shit about your 'more later' crap wanker.
Hi gh15 :D
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too much shit to read,,its only ephedrine fellas :D
let me try to see if i remember the questions,,,,lisa asked something and the answer is yes to whatever she asked,,i forgot what it was,,think it was about losing bodyfat on bronkaid 3 times a week,,answer is yes for a woman in particular!! just dont abuse the thing and you will melt fat wize
the other dude asked something about offseason energy ,,caffeine and ephedrine,,b12,,growth if youre over 30 or anytime if you got the cash,,epo is you need more endurance for endurance sports,,epo is what every cyclist and long distance runners are on majority of the year,, etc
to the dude who wanna throw me in prison :D,,remember what i recomend here is with the idea in mind that im talking to lifters and bodybuilders that are serious about the bodybuilding and wanna improve,,,i dont give advices with the idea in mind that i talk to guys who come to have fun on the internet,,soooo since i assume majority of the people on this board wouldnt even find this board if they were not big time into bodybuilding and training,,i feel good to recomend and direct them in the right way,,
now,,i dont come here and give you short cuts to build the phenominal physiqe,,,that can not happen with all the drugs in the world if you dont follow specific basic rules which are training right eating and sleeping and transforming yourself into a bodybuilder during the first couple years of training,,
what i do give you short cuts for is the way to get to the most perfect look that you wanted so long to have,, after you already packed on the muscle and have enough muscle to play with,,
hormones and fatburners and other products are all good and fine but i never suggest it to a guy that just entered a gym or decided he wanna start working out,, every thing i write here is with the idea in mind that you already know what you do in the gym and already established yourself as a lifter,,,it is obviously for people who been at it for couple years and live and breath it!
ephedrine is very safe when taken at normal doses of 25-100mg a day depending on your lean muscle mass!,,abuse of ephedrine may result in sudden death as you seen in football and other sports,,so no do not take 12 tablets of bronkaid per day,,thats not the way ,,
you like to talk on this board about the skinny 140lb guys that like to show their 12 pack abs in the gym,,,what i did was pointing you at the right way and products needed inorder to have that 12 pack at 200lb,,with no need for cardio,,,ephedrine will melt the fat off your body,,,the adding of caffeine and aspirin will make the process faster and better and most effiicient,,,your blood pressure doesnt rize up or high when you cut,,,you lose weight,,you lost fat,,,you go from 240 to 200lb you lean out your body,,,the body wanna drop this fat off it,,the more fat it burns the healthier it will feel and no blood pressure will be a problem esecially with aspirin and reduction of aas doses (youre cutting remember?)
your body goes from the bulking phase and red mellon face to a healthy lean mean muscle machine,,,and no health problems should happen unless you had them to begin with,,
the high blood pressure is when you are 250lb 18% bodyfat on dianabol testosrerone and nandrolone with slin and gh,,THIS IS WHEN YOUR BLOOD PRESSURE IS AND SHOULD BE HIGH,,
send my condolonses to virginia tech,,,i blame britny spears and snoop dogy for everything,,i hope that this chinease mother fucker burnt in hell for eternity
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too much shit to read,,its only ephedrine fellas :D
the high blood pressure is when you are 250lb 18% bodyfat on dianabol testosrerone and nandrolone with slin and gh,,THIS IS WHEN YOUR BLOOD PRESSURE IS AND SHOULD BE HIGH,,
send my condolonses to virginia tech,,,i blame britny spears and snoop dogy for everything,,i hope that this chinease mother fucker burnt in hell for eternity
en worse
1. You obviously don't know the effects of ephedrine (besides the side effects) has on the body from prolonged use even in "small doses".
2. Blood pressure is basically effected by anything and is even worse when on certain aas.
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I've taken it off&on for about 4 years now. I don't think it is particularly healthy to stay on indefinitely. I would reccomend something like 8 weeks on, 4 off or something along those lines. I can easily fall asleep right after taking ECA if I am on it for a few months. Screw it if you are thinking long-term; there is no point in continuously taking to just to stay lean.
For green tea supplements, realize that the thermogenic component in it is the caffeine. That's really the only thing. There are anti-oxidants as well, but anti-oxidants are highly overrated...they do great in test tubes but don't really do much in the human body. They are more of a sales pitch now than anything else. Personally, I think using a lot of caffeine is just as bad as ephedrine. My problem with caffeine now is that I have developed obvious withdrawal when I go a few hours without some, and they do not go away for a few days unless I ingest more caffeine.
Also, if you do buy ephedrine products over the net, it is possible that you will get reported to the DEA (i have been). It's probably not a huge deal unless they see you buying massive quantities of it. Basically, many state governments are developing databases on this type of thing, particularly if they have a meth problem. For example, I am pretty sure Walgreens & CVS report these things, probably to EPIC. If you are reported, it will not be to the agents armed with uzi's and having "DEA" written on the back of their coats. They have another division that handles lesser affairs where agents make about 1/3 of those other guys salary.
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I've taken it off&on for about 4 years now. I don't think it is particularly healthy to stay on indefinitely. I would reccomend something like 8 weeks on, 4 off or something along those lines. I can easily fall asleep right after taking ECA if I am on it for a few months. Screw it if you are thinking long-term; there is no point in continuously taking to just to stay lean.
For green tea supplements, realize that the thermogenic component in it is the caffeine. That's really the only thing. There are anti-oxidants as well, but anti-oxidants are highly overrated...they do great in test tubes but don't really do much in the human body. They are more of a sales pitch now than anything else. Personally, I think using a lot of caffeine is just as bad as ephedrine. My problem with caffeine now is that I have developed obvious withdrawal when I go a few hours without some, and they do not go away for a few days unless I ingest more caffeine.
Also, if you do buy ephedrine products over the net, it is possible that you will get reported to the DEA (i have been). It's probably not a huge deal unless they see you buying massive quantities of it. Basically, many state governments are developing databases on this type of thing, particularly if they have a meth problem. For example, I am pretty sure Walgreens & CVS report these things, probably to EPIC. If you are reported, it will not be to the agents armed with uzi's and having "DEA" written on the back of their coats. They have another division that handles lesser affairs where agents make about 1/3 of those other guys salary.
this is true. there is a 'monitoring' of people ordering ephedrine and pseudo ephedrine.
the ONLY problem (despite what they say about all these people with exploding hearts ::)) with these drugs is the simple fact that ephedrine is used to manufacture amphetamines. that's it, that's all and that's what it always has been about.
they say we live a in a 'free' democracy, but the fact is that law abiding tax payers are being deprived of free choice because a blanket ban makes it easier to control the manufacturing and thus supply of amphetamines.
the 'war' on drugs, as usual, has many victims and free choice is one of them.
just another case where those that sit in positions of power use the media to manipulate your constitution for their own purpose.
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this is true. there is a 'monitoring' of people ordering ephedrine and pseudo ephedrine.
the ONLY problem (despite what they say about all these people with exploding hearts ::)) with these drugs is the simple fact that ephedrine is used to manufacture amphetamines. that's it, that's all and that's what it always has been about.
they say we live a in a 'free' democracy, but the fact is that law abiding tax payers are being deprived of free choice because a blanket ban makes it easier to control the manufacturing and thus supply of amphetamines.
the 'war' on drugs, as usual, has many victims and free choice is one of them.
just another case where those that sit in positions of power use the media to manipulate your constitution for their own purpose.
This is a totally retarded post. No one with a little understanding of politics and society could post utter BS like this. It's full of hippie influenced sayings that you keep hearing about cannabis for over 30 years now.
People who think that they themselves are ripe enough to control the drugs they use and everyone else is too are dumb.
Drug control laws should be even stricter, as other societies in the world show.
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This is a totally retarded post. No one with a little understanding of politics and society could post utter BS like this. It's full of hippie influenced sayings that you keep hearing about cannabis for over 30 years now.
People who think that they themselves are ripe enough to control the drugs they use and everyone else is too are dumb.
Drug control laws should be even stricter, as other societies in the world show.
with cannabis there are other reasons, mainly that it can't be taxed.
are you going to tell me that cigarettes and alcohol should be banned under your 'Drug control laws should be even stricter, as other societies in the world show.' policy donkey?
i didn't think so, yet i can give you actual statistics that prove that these drugs are a great deal more dangerous and hazardous to society than the drugs mentioned have ever been.
what about caffeine, panadol, aspirin, sleeping pills, etc, etc, etc. should all of that be banned also? because i know you know that i can also provide statistics on those.
talk about 'retarded' posts, why don't you try thinking first before you post. :)
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en worse
1. You obviously don't know the effects of ephedrine (besides the side effects) has on the body from prolonged use even in "small doses".
2. Blood pressure is basically effected by anything and is even worse when on certain aas.
1. effects of ephedine in the short run and long run: LOSS OF BODYFAT AND ONLY BODYFAT,,DRY LOOK,,AB TUNNELS AND CHENNELS VISIBLE DUE TO YOUR ABILIYY TO GET DOWN TO 6-7% BODYFAT AND MAINTAIN IT,,YES IF YOU DONT TOUCH WEIGHTS AND LOAD YOURSELF ON EPHDRINE FOR MONTHS ON YOU WILL LOOK LIKE A CRYSTAL METH ADDICT BECAUSE YOU WILL HAVE LOW BODYFAT AND DRY LOOK,, BUT ALSO HAVE NO MUSCLE,,BUT THIS NOT BECAUSE OF THE USE OF EPHEDRINE BUT BECAUSE YOU DONT TRAIN! DONT EAT RIGHT AND EATING RIGHT DOESNT MEAN EATING CLEAN ALL THE TIME!!! AND ALSO NOT FEMILIAR WITH THE USE OF HORMONES THAT SHOULD BE TAKEN WITH THE EPHEDRINE INORDER TO WORK EFFECTIVELY TWARDS YOUR GOAL OF HOLDINNG TO AS MUCH LEAN MUSCLE MASS WHILE REDUCING BODYFAT% TO LOW SINGLE DIGITS
those are the short and long effects of ephedrine,,i been using it for over 15 year on a regular basis with zero sides and zero long effects on the heart and brain and this and that,,so dont talk out of your ass,,,when i say something here it is out of years of eperience with the product,,,both on me and on 10s of other bodybuilders i worked with,,
THERE IS NOT EVEN ONE SINGLE BODYBUILDER THAT DONT USE EPHEDRINE,,NOT EVEN ONE! IF THERE IS I WANNA HEAR ABOUT HIM OR HER,,BUT DONT WORRY THERE ARE NONE,,EVERYONE THAT ACHIEVED SOMETHING WITH HIS BODY USED IT OR USES IT
2. blood pressue does change all over the place,,,it changes many times from moment to moment from anything you take or any activity you do,,,and to your dumb comment about aas and blood pressure i can only say this: the testosterone 1 and all the bullcrap over the counter "test" pills you buy in gnc are a lot worse for your blood pressure than aas,,
it is VERY VERY COMMON FOR A BODYBUILDER TO HAVE 120 OVER 80 BLOOD PRESSURE AND THEN AFTER BIG HEAVY LIFTING IN THE GYM TO HAVE IT AT 140 OVER 100,,,
IT IS NOT ONLY COMMON FOR BODYBUILDERS IT IS COMMON FOR ANY LIVINNG CREATURES,,
THE MOMENT YOU UNDERSTAND THAT THE OVER THE COUNTER SUPP YOU TAKE AD1 AND ALL THE OTHER CRAP THEY SELL YOU THERE,,ALL OF THOSE PRODUCTS ARE THE ONES WHO GIVE YOU THE HEALTH PROBLEMS!! THOSE ARE THE ONES WHO GIVE YOU BITCH TITS,,,THE ZINC AND ZMA YOU TAKE,,,THAT WHAT GIVES YOU TITS,,,THE "TEST" PRODUCTS THAT YOU BUY OVER THE COUNTER,,THOSE ARE THE ONES WHO MAKE YOU FEEL HOT INSIDE LIKE YOU LIVING IN A SAUNA,,,THOSE ARE THE ONE WHO MAKE YOUR WAIST EXPAND WHILE LIVING YOUR BODY SAME OLE SIZE YOU WERE,,,
THE PROBLEM IS THE OVER THE COUNTER SUPP AND NOT THE HORMONES AND EPHEDRINE,,,THE HORMONES AND EPHEDRINE DELIVER,,,THE OTHER THINGS YOU BUY IN GNC DELIVER HOLE IN YOUR PANTS,,,PAIN IN YOUR HEART,,, AND SIDE EFFECTS ON YOUR BODY!
WIZE UP
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I hereby declare the last two posts a meltdown.
;D
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I hereby declare the last two posts are beyond my intellectual capacity to debate.
;D
fixed ;D
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fixed ;D
haha, that was nice. ;D
馬鹿野郎 ;D ;D
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Gh15, when u say all over the counter supplements, which ones do u mean?
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I find gh15's advice usually right on the money
if you don't like him don't read his posts................... ....i will because you can always learn
you never reach the point where you know it all
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On a side night did anyone see the episode of The Shield the other day where the guy was going around robbing Pharmacies for the ephedrine to make Meth?They gave alot of clues on how to make Meth I bet the crackheads were sitting there writing furiously taking notes!
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Short term use of ECA stack is fine. What GH15 is recommending is safe as far as dose. I would NEVER recommend long term use and for that matter why would anyone want to? ??? On a side note I once witnessed a guy at my gym take..........you ready? 48 ephedrine HCL AT ONE TIME!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! :-X
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Short term use of ECA stack is fine. What GH15 is recommending is safe as far as dose. I would NEVER recommend long term use and for that matter why would anyone want to? ??? On a side note I once witnessed a guy at my gym take..........you ready? 48 ephedrine HCL AT ONE TIME!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! :-X
Ummm if he didn't go into cardiac arrest within 5 minutes he'd actually have chocked to death on his own vomit since he essentially have poisoned himself.
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Short term use of ECA stack is fine. What GH15 is recommending is safe as far as dose. I would NEVER recommend long term use and for that matter why would anyone want to? ??? On a side note I once witnessed a guy at my gym take..........you ready? 48 ephedrine HCL AT ONE TIME!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! :-X
Why'd he do that? ???
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1. effects of ephedine in the short run and long run: LOSS OF BODYFAT AND ONLY BODYFAT,,DRY LOOK,,AB TUNNELS AND CHENNELS VISIBLE DUE TO YOUR ABILIYY TO GET DOWN TO 6-7% BODYFAT AND MAINTAIN IT,,YES IF YOU DONT TOUCH WEIGHTS AND LOAD YOURSELF ON EPHDRINE FOR MONTHS ON YOU WILL LOOK LIKE A CRYSTAL METH ADDICT BECAUSE YOU WILL HAVE LOW BODYFAT AND DRY LOOK,, BUT ALSO HAVE NO MUSCLE,,BUT THIS NOT BECAUSE OF THE USE OF EPHEDRINE BUT BECAUSE YOU DONT TRAIN! DONT EAT RIGHT AND EATING RIGHT DOESNT MEAN EATING CLEAN ALL THE TIME!!! AND ALSO NOT FEMILIAR WITH THE USE OF HORMONES THAT SHOULD BE TAKEN WITH THE EPHEDRINE INORDER TO WORK EFFECTIVELY TWARDS YOUR GOAL OF HOLDINNG TO AS MUCH LEAN MUSCLE MASS WHILE REDUCING BODYFAT% TO LOW SINGLE DIGITS
those are the short and long effects of ephedrine,,i been using it for over 15 year on a regular basis with zero sides and zero long effects on the heart and brain and this and that,,so dont talk out of your ass,,,when i say something here it is out of years of eperience with the product,,,both on me and on 10s of other bodybuilders i worked with,,
THERE IS NOT EVEN ONE SINGLE BODYBUILDER THAT DONT USE EPHEDRINE,,NOT EVEN ONE! IF THERE IS I WANNA HEAR ABOUT HIM OR HER,,BUT DONT WORRY THERE ARE NONE,,EVERYONE THAT ACHIEVED SOMETHING WITH HIS BODY USED IT OR USES IT
2. blood pressue does change all over the place,,,it changes many times from moment to moment from anything you take or any activity you do,,,and to your dumb comment about aas and blood pressure i can only say this: the testosterone 1 and all the bullcrap over the counter "test" pills you buy in gnc are a lot worse for your blood pressure than aas,,
it is VERY VERY COMMON FOR A BODYBUILDER TO HAVE 120 OVER 80 BLOOD PRESSURE AND THEN AFTER BIG HEAVY LIFTING IN THE GYM TO HAVE IT AT 140 OVER 100,,,
IT IS NOT ONLY COMMON FOR BODYBUILDERS IT IS COMMON FOR ANY LIVINNG CREATURES,,
THE MOMENT YOU UNDERSTAND THAT THE OVER THE COUNTER SUPP YOU TAKE AD1 AND ALL THE OTHER CRAP THEY SELL YOU THERE,,ALL OF THOSE PRODUCTS ARE THE ONES WHO GIVE YOU THE HEALTH PROBLEMS!! THOSE ARE THE ONES WHO GIVE YOU BITCH TITS,,,THE ZINC AND ZMA YOU TAKE,,,THAT WHAT GIVES YOU TITS,,,THE "TEST" PRODUCTS THAT YOU BUY OVER THE COUNTER,,THOSE ARE THE ONES WHO MAKE YOU FEEL HOT INSIDE LIKE YOU LIVING IN A SAUNA,,,THOSE ARE THE ONE WHO MAKE YOUR WAIST EXPAND WHILE LIVING YOUR BODY SAME OLE SIZE YOU WERE,,,
THE PROBLEM IS THE OVER THE COUNTER SUPP AND NOT THE HORMONES AND EPHEDRINE,,,THE HORMONES AND EPHEDRINE DELIVER,,,THE OTHER THINGS YOU BUY IN GNC DELIVER HOLE IN YOUR PANTS,,,PAIN IN YOUR HEART,,, AND SIDE EFFECTS ON YOUR BODY!
WIZE UP
This is the very short version but to the point........
1. All stimulants eventually become DEPRESSENTS and will cause you to lose energy, especially when you're on low carbs.
2. If someone is on Ephedrine or any other stimulant the usual first effects are weight loss due to water and some fat, but as time goes on the constant release and (the main factor in all of this) OVERPRODUCTION OF INSULIN will stop a persons body from burning fat and if the carb consumption is too high will cause you to INCREASE fat and will not keep BURNING fat, if you understand how insulin works, you should know this, this is how ephedra has a reverse effect.
3. You said you have been taking ephedrine for 15 years, my guess is it's more of an addiction and does more harm than good, if someone is dependant on stimulants it usually because of low seratonin levels that causes the craving for the stimulants and when low on carbs, you crave carbs.
I reguards to the GH Gut theories that have been speculated, I've heard things from excess carb loading to enlarged organs due to excessive GH to visceral fat, but the one conclusion that I think I have and it makes sense is the overproduction of insulin and some of the main factors in bodybuilding that causes this is stimulants and carb loading both of which will cause and over production of insulin and will cause bloating in the stomach.
I have a TON more on this subject, but I gotta go back to work.
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you never reach the point where you know it all
I agree but when I'm not working, I'm researching everything I can get my hands on related to my profession.
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This is the very short version but to the point........
1. All stimulants eventually become DEPRESSENTS and will cause you to lose energy, especially when you're on low carbs.
2. If someone is on Ephedrine or any other stimulant the usual first effects are weight loss due to water and some fat, but as time goes on the constant release and (the main factor in all of this) OVERPRODUCTION OF INSULIN will stop a persons body from burning fat and if the carb consumption is too high will cause you to INCREASE fat and will not keep BURNING fat, if you understand how insulin works, you should know this, this is how ephedra has a reverse effect.
3. You said you have been taking ephedrine for 15 years, my guess is it's more of an addiction and does more harm than good, if someone is dependant on stimulants it usually because of low seratonin levels that causes the craving for the stimulants and when low on carbs, you crave carbs.
I reguards to the GH Gut theories that have been speculated, I've heard things from excess carb loading to enlarged organs due to excessive GH to visceral fat, but the one conclusion that I think I have and it makes sense is the overproduction of insulin and some of the main factors in bodybuilding that causes this is stimulants and carb loading both of which will cause and over production of insulin and will cause bloating in the stomach.
I have a TON more on this subject, but I gotta go back to work.
so now you're saying taking stimulants over a period of time will make you fat and will contribute to a gh gut???
THIS is what you had us waiting for? ::)
i agree that large doses of stimulants over an extended period of time can become a depressant, but let's just say, i disagree with the rest.
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Why'd he do that? ???
He built up a tolerance.
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so now you're saying taking stimulants over a period of time will make you fat and will contribute to a gh gut???
THIS is what you had us waiting for? ::)
i agree that large doses of stimulants over an extended period of time can become a depressant, but let's just say, i disagree with the rest.
How can you disagree with a physiological fact? I didn't just pull this out of my ass!
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How can you disagree with a physiological fact? I didn't just pull this out of my ass!
You're not adding much.
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You're not adding much.
Whatever dude ::)!
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Whatever dude ::)!
Go away if that's all you've got.
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Go away if that's all you've got.
But if I go away, how will YOU learn anything?
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But if I go away, how will YOU learn anything?
From GH15 :D
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Now fuck off :-*
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How can you disagree with a physiological fact? I didn't just pull this out of my ass!
Well, what you are saying could be debated extensively. However, yes insulin production can go up since ephedrine can cause some insulin resistance. So when eating over maintenance, ie bulking, it *might* be a bad idea. What you are not telling here is that the reason the best fat burners, including GH (!), clen, etc, are such good fat burners is largely due to the insulin resistance they cause. One reason is that insulin resistance in fat cells make them release fat easier. In a deficit this means you are burning fat for fuel. GH can, and will in high doses, INCREASE insulin production! This is fact. When was the last time you heard of someone getting fatter from GH?!! High dose GH use can cause such severe insulin resistance and high BG that some have to use supplemental insulin to keep BG down.
So, I would say you are off in saying ephedrine makes you fat. It *might* be a bad idea health wise to use tons of ephedrine and eat huge amounts of carbs, though.
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Now fuck off :-*
I wouldn't expect anything less of you..........LOL.......I people say I have nothing to contribute!
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Ummm if he didn't go into cardiac arrest within 5 minutes he'd actually have chocked to death on his own vomit since he essentially have poisoned himself.
On pubmed there is an abstract about a woman who had been on 150mg ephedrine/day for 30 years (!) (for asthma). When her husband died she started taking like 10x that (forgot the details) and became delirious. She recovered fully.
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I wouldn't expect anything less of you..........LOL.......I people say I have nothing to contribute!
Haha, just bustin ur balls bro ;)
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Well, what you are saying could be debated extensively. However, yes insulin production can go up since ephedrine can cause some insulin resistance. So when eating over maintenance, ie bulking, it *might* be a bad idea. What you are not telling here is that the reason the best fat burners, including GH (!), clen, etc, are such good fat burners is largely due to the insulin resistance they cause. One reason is that insulin resistance in fat cells make them release fat easier. In a deficit this means you are burning fat for fuel. GH can, and will in high doses, INCREASE insulin production! This is fact. When was the last time you heard of someone getting fatter from GH?!! High dose GH use can cause such severe insulin resistance and high BG that some have to use supplemental insulin to keep BG down.
So, I would say you are off in saying ephedrine makes you fat. It *might* be a bad idea health wise to use tons of ephedrine and eat huge amounts of carbs, though.
I think you might be missing my point, I know that GH or just about any drug will cause an increase in prodution of insulin, what gh15 was sayin is it will burn fat even if used fo long periods of time, if you have an overproduction of insulin it will can and will cause a reverse effect and it will STOP burning fat.
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Haha, just bustin ur balls bro ;)
No prob, I'm easy :D!
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I think you might be missing my point, I know that GH or just about any drug will cause an increase in prodution of insulin, what gh15 was sayin is it will burn fat even if used fo long periods of time, if you have an overproduction of insulin it will can and will cause a reverse effect and it will STOP burning fat.
Nah, the increase in insulin won't override the other fat burning effects IMO. This has been demonstrated in studies, like I posted before some studies have been close to a year. Like I said the insulin resistance is part of why it's so great for burning fat and preserving muscle. Maybe there is a case to be made for it causing a shift in fat distribution (more central adiposity, visceral fat) though. I don't even think ephedrine even causes a large increase in insulin anyway, I'm pretty sure they have looked at hormone parameters in the studies and from my recollection they stayed in normal range but I'm too lazy to go look right now. If you have some data I'd like to see it though.
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Nah, the increase in insulin won't override the other fat burning effects IMO. This has been demonstrated in studies, like I posted before some studies have been close to a year. Like I said the insulin resistance is part of why it's so great for burning fat and preserving muscle. Maybe there is a case to be made for it causing a shift in fat distribution (more central adiposity, visceral fat) though. I don't even think ephedrine even causes a large increase in insulin anyway, I'm pretty sure they have looked at hormone parameters in the studies and from my recollection they stayed in normal range but I'm too lazy to go look right now. If you have some data I'd like to see it though.
In the short term yes, in the long term it becomes ineffective and thats my argument to gh15 and the reverse effect for prolonged use, when you see people with alot of belly fat primarly in the waist and hips, it's primarly an overproduction of insulin that could lead to metabolic syndrome, same reason why doctors tell their diabetic patients to lower the carb intake and to stay away from caffine and other stimulants. Van, I hear what you're saying but this is pretty common knowledge.
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OH HAIL GH15!!! LONG LIVE GH15 HORMONE GOD!!!! ALAA gh15 ALAA .
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mr intenseone based on your theory meth addicts should all be walking around with huge guts. why isnt that the case?
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mr intenseone based on your theory meth addicts should all be walking around with huge guts. why isnt that the case?
exactly ;)
intense just likes to feel important, being a 10k an hour personal trainer and all. ::)
Van Bilderass is right on the money. the possible negative effects on insulin related fat storage are about as likely as getting a huge growth spurt from using arginine/ornithine before breakfast, and are easily negated by the positive effects on bmr.
his attempts to baffle with text book bs don't appear to fool anyone here (lord knows how he gets paid for his crap).
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All I know is that bodybuilding for the majority of people should enrich health. If you are never gonna make a dime from weight training, why risk your health? To me, taking a heavy amount of any stimulant is risking your health.
However if someone chooses to do it, more power to them. They should make an informed decision and weigh costs and benefits though.
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All I know is that bodybuilding for the majority of people should enrich health. If you are never gonna make a dime from weight training, why risk your health? To me, taking a <b>heavy amount</b> of any stimulant is risking your health.
However if someone chooses to do it, more power to them. They should make an informed decision and weigh costs and benefits though.
then don't take a heavy amount. even with minimal doses of ephedrine fat burning will occur
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mr intenseone based on your theory meth addicts should all be walking around with huge guts. why isnt that the case?
Because meth addicts usually don't eat, when you are low on carbs or like most meth addicts, don't eat, you don't produce as much insulin, but when carbs are introduced back in to the diet, it acts as a stimulant (energy) and thats when the over production begins. Have you ever noticed when you or someone is on a low carb diet and you have some carbs and especially when combining it with a stimulant like ephedra, you get or feel bloated quickly? Think about it.
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exactly ;)
intense just likes to feel important, being a 10k an hour personal trainer and all. ::)
Van Bilderass is right on the money. the possible negative effects on insulin related fat storage are about as likely as getting a huge growth spurt from using arginine/ornithine before breakfast, and are easily negated by the positive effects on bmr.
his attempts to baffle with text book bs don't appear to fool anyone here (lord knows how he gets paid for his crap).
Shut up, you don't even know what the hell we're taking about, you obviously don't have a clue and unless you can prove different........STFU!
I'll ask you the same thing I have asked others.........Are you trying to say that an over production (sensetivity) of insulin over a long period of time will NOT stop burning fat?
HOPE THIS HELPS!
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All I know is that bodybuilding for the majority of people should enrich health. If you are never gonna make a dime from weight training, why risk your health? To me, taking a heavy amount of any stimulant is risking your health.
However if someone chooses to do it, more power to them. They should make an informed decision and weigh costs and benefits though.
i agree 100% with this. :)
inetenselyfatone, what can i say,
MELTDOWN
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Gh15, do u recommend creatine, glutamine, and fat burner's with no ephedrin?
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eca my friends eca
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Gh15, do u recommend creatine, glutamine, and fat burner's with no ephedrin?
he has said in the past said that creatine and glutamine are useless
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he has said in the past said that creatine and glutamine are useless
bwaahahaah, well, if you're on 3g steroids it sure is.
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Hi
SO if im on a 6000 calorie bulk diet.. will 25 mg of ephedrine sulphate in the morning keep fat accumulation to a minimum?
O
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so whats the recommended protocol here?
take eca while cutting, and stop when bulking to increase insulin sensitivity back to normal levels?
if i was cutting using a low carb diet, i.e less than 30g of carbs for 5 d/week, would it be ok to take eca for those 5 days, them dont take it during my carb refeed days.
or just take the eca throughout the 12-16weeks regardless?
??? ??? ???
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so whats the recommended protocol here?
take eca while cutting, and stop when bulking to increase insulin sensitivity back to normal levels?
if i was cutting using a low carb diet, i.e less than 30g of carbs for 5 d/week, would it be ok to take eca for those 5 days, them dont take it during my carb refeed days.
or just take the eca throughout the 12-16weeks regardless?
??? ??? ???
that's a good question. depends on what your goal is i guess but i would go off the eca stack on carb days and let your muscles most fill up with glycogen ie intended purpose of carb load. plus you'll get the extra kick when you use it pre workout after 2 days ie your muscles will be loaded and you get an extra boost from not using the ephedrine for a couple of days.
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thants what i was thinking :D
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bwaahahaah, well, if you're on 3g steroids it sure is.
perhaps, but he said that using creatine is pointless because the water that you retain from it is stored between the muscle and the skin, not actually in the muscle, making it useless
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perhaps, but he said that using creatine is pointless because the water that you retain from it is stored between the muscle and the skin, not actually in the muscle, making it useless
B U L L S H I T....
Enhancement of physical performance by creatine supplementation:
The CK/PCr system is now recognized as an important metabolic regulator during health and disease. Creatine, synthesized in part by the body, but also ingested by food, especially meat and fish (for review see [50]), is taken up into cells by a creatine transporter (CreaT) (for review see [51]). Creatine supplementation in humans leads to an increase in intracellular [Cr] and [PCr], concomitantly improving anaerobic performance of muscle [52,53], shortens muscle relaxation time [83], increases fat free- or lean body mass [94] as well as the cross-sectional area (fiber diameter) of all muscle fiber types [93]. In addition, creatine seems to improve recovery after exhaustive excercise [54] (for review see [55,56]). One could show that creatine supplementation may also have beneficial effects for high-intensity, aerobic long-endurance exercise [57]. In a double-blinded placebo-controlled study, 20 highly trained top athletes were subjected at 1?650 meters above sea level (in Davos, Switzerland) to a series of spiro-ergometric short- and long-term performance tests before and after 10 days of supplementation with 3x3.3 g of Cr per day. In accordance with earlier studies, short performance and maximal work output were both improved by approx. 30 Watt. In a 1 hour spiro-ergometric test at 85% power output of the individually determined anaerobic threshold, the Cr group was able to perform, after Cr supplementation, at the same level of exercise with a significantly lower heart rate (-8.4 beats/min) than before Cr intake. In this group, lactate levels were lower by 0.48 mM/l and Borg scale numbers by 1.35 points. These effects were not observed in the controls. Ventilation, VO2 and respiratory quotient (RQ) were basically unchanged [57]. The effects of Cr on endurance performance seem to be due to increased efficiency of energy utilization by heart and skeletal muscle which may be related to the involvement of CK in the energetics of Ca2+-homeostasis. As a consequence of creatine supplementation, the elevated cellular PCr level is likely to increase the supply of the SR-Ca2+-ATPase with high-energy phosphates via the coupled CK reaction and thus would also increase the efficiency of Ca2+-pumping and delay impaired Ca2+-regulation known to occur under conditions of fatigue [93]. During long-endurance exercise, this process consumes a significant proportion of the available bioenergy. In addition, Cr-stimulated respiration and enhanced resynthesis of PCr after creatine ingestion [54] and/or the recently discovered control of AMP-activated protein kinase by the PCr/Cr ratio [20] and its effects on CK and lipid metabolism in general [20] could be important factors leading to the observed improvement of aerobic exercise described above.
An important new aspect of creatine supplementation was descovered only recently, that is, creatine supplementation in combination with carbohydrate loading after submaximal glycogen-depleting exercise not only markedly improves Cr uptake, but also increases glycogen accumulation in human muslcle [96]. Thus, the highly elevated levels of glycogen reached after combined carbohydrate and creatine loading after glycogen-depleting exercise may, of course, also add to the positive effect of creatine supplementation on long-endurance exercise [57].
The PCr-circuit: a temporal and spatial energy buffering network and regulatory system for energy metabolism in cells with intermittently high energy requirements.
Upper, cytosolic side: the bulk of soluble, cytosolic CK (CKc) equilibrates global ATP/ADP and PCr/Cr ratios by its equilibrium reaction (depicted in the right middle of the figure). In skeletal muscle at rest, these metabolite levels are approximately 3-5 mM/10-20 µM and 20-40 mM/10-15 mM, respectively (see [1,22,47]). One of the main functions of CKc is to keep the concentration of free global ADP very low and thus to maintaing global [ATP] remarkably stable also during cell activation. This part of the PCr-circuit model represents the classical textbook function of CK as a temporal energy buffer, being backed up by adenylate kinase as a second safeguard against declining ATP and rising ADP levels. Some of the cytosolic CKc is functionally coupled to glycolysis and, during periods of anaerobic work-output and recovery, preferentially accepts glycolytic ATP to replenish the very large PCr pool (ATP from glycolysis, depicted in the left middle of the figure). Additionally, however, some fractions of cytosolic CK, are very specifically associated (CKa) with ATP requiring processes at sites of energy consumption. For example, CKa is associated with the contractile apparatus and the sarcoplasmic reticulum, where it forms functionally coupled microcompartments with the acto-myosin ATPase and the SR-Ca2+-ATPase, respectively, or with other ATP requiring processes, like the Na+/K+-ATPase etc. (see top of figure). There, ATP is directly regenerated in situ by CKa via PCr, thus keeping local ATP/ADP ratios very high in the immediate vicinity of these ATPases.
CK is phosphorylated and down-regulated in its activity by AMP-dependent protein kinase (AMPK, top right), which itself is the first enzyme that has been found to be regulated by the PCr/Cr ratio, that is, AMPK is activated by high creatine versus PCr levels [20].
Lower mitochondrial side: mitochondrial Mi-CK is bound to the outer side of the inner mitochondrial membrane (IM) and localized along the cristae membranes, as well as at mitochondrial contact sites, where IM and OM are in close vicinity [48]. At these sites, Mi-CK octamers are forming microcompartments with porin (P) and adenine nucleotide translocase (ANT) for energy transfer from ATP to Cr, followed by vectorial transport of PCr into the cytosol. ATP generated by oxidative phosphorylation is preferentially accepted by Mi-CK octamers, transphosphorylated onto Cr, which is entering through mitochondrial porin (P, or VDAC), to give PCr which then is exported into the cytosol. Thus, under high work-load, PCr would be shuttled from mitochondria to sites of energy consumption (ATPases, top of figure), where it is then used
by CKa to regenerate ATP locally in situ to fuel these ATP-requiring processes and to keep local ATP/ADP ratios very high. Cr would diffuse back to the mitochondria to be recharged again. This part of the model represents the spatial buffering function of the PCr-circuit. In this model, the specifically localized CK isoenzymes at sites of energy consumption and energy production are connected via PCr and Cr as mediators, generating metabolic waves and dampening oscillations of metabolites [22,46].
The dynamic recruitment of either free or membrane-bound Mi-CK octamers (double-arrows 5 or 1, respectively), possibly depending on the metabolic state of the mitochondria, the dynamic octamer/dimer equilibrium of Mi-CK (double arrows 2 and 4), as well as octamerization of Mi-CK dimers bound on the IM (double-arrow 2), all observed in vitro, are schematically visualized as potential modulatory events for long-term metabolic regulation. The interaction of Mi-CK with porin and complex formation of the enzyme with ANT, most likely facilitated by cardiolipin associated with ANT, are also illustrated. Under the conditions expected to prevail in the mitochondrial intermembrane space, however, the equilibria of these reactions, as observed in vitro, would clearly favour the membrane-bound octamer [21,25]. However,since the formation of contact sites and the establishment of the protein complexes are thought to be rather dynamic, a on/off recruitment of Mi-CK octamer into contact sites could easily be envisaged. Finally, these events that are heavily influenced by the exquisite sensitivity of Mi-CK towards peroxynitrite and other ROS [26], may be relevant also for the control of the permeability transition pore [39-41, 45].
http://icbxw.ethz.ch/creatine/creatine_supplementation.html#English