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Getbig Main Boards => Politics and Political Issues Board => Topic started by: vinnydountsnyc on April 22, 2007, 07:13:23 AM
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Sources: Feds Ordered VA Police To Stand Down
Local authorities were told to take no action to pursue killer :'(
Prison Planet | April 20, 2007
Paul Joseph Watson
Police and EMT workers at Virginia Tech tell us that campus police were given a federal order to stand down and not pursue killer Cho Seung-Hui as Monday's bloodshed unfolded.
Though wishing to remain anonymous for obvious reasons, we have received calls from police and EMT's who tell us that a stand down order was in place, and this is also confirmed by eyewitness Matt Kazee, who is a Blacksburg local.
Kazee talked to local EMT's and police who told him the same thing, that the order was to wait until federal back up arrived before any action was taken. This explains the complete non-response of the police in the two hour gap between Cho's first two murders and the wider rampage that would follow later that morning.
The policy of federal control over the University was put in place following a previous shooting in August 2006 in which a police officer and a hospital security guard were killed.
In addition, a former long-term University police officer, George French, told the Alex Jones Show that it is routine to seal off a campus on which a suspected gunman is loose.
“Setting up a series of roadblocks, controlling access to very large pieces of property, is very much routine on any university campus in Canada and in the United States,” said French.
“After a double homicide, when you're looking for a dangerous fellow with a firearm, I find it unfathomable that a series of roadblocks weren't set up…to prevent the felon from escaping.”
French could find no logical conclusion other than deliberate inaction on the part of officials. “We have another coordinated, allowed event…the parallels are so common in each case; you can write the script in advance.”
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Great ::)
My inner CTer is stirring... of course the headlines have been diverting us away from Iraq...
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The CTers initially took notice of this one - as there were bomb threats the two fridays before the monday shooting, oddly, in those same buildings.
And according to student interviews on NPR that day, there were ATF guys all over the place ten days before, then 3 days before, alone and unattended over the weekend in those buildings. ATF answered the bomb threats, of course, but locked down the buildings. Of course this is standard procedure - but it is an incredible coincidence, and we all remember that every ATF agent kept their child home, coincidentally, the day of the Ok City bombing :(
And you toss in the fact the police stood down, didn't rush in even as shots were fired for 30+ minutes. Remember the video clip the kid took - of the police standing there while shots rang out - they weren't even in position - they were chatting.
And, the story has everything - a lone bad guy, a hero (the professor), a federal investigation which has already vowed to assign NO BLAME for any failures that day.
My money is still on one messed up kid. No CT here. however, I will definitly look at things that come out about the shooting. The feds ordering campus and state police to stand down - incredibly strange, and probably worthy of its own investigation for no reason other than of plain old bad system in place. So maybe let's start there. Of course, they're not, and have vowed not to, which is odd.
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FBI HRT was going to roll in. Could have been the stand down order.
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FBI HRT was going to roll in. Could have been the stand down order.
what's HRT? hostage response? I'm referring to the initial 2 killings they stopped investigations of.
If they did have plans to do something themselves, that might be a reasonable explanation. No presence for 2 hours, very odd. It's probably just the local campus police waiting for their chief to come in, then him getting abreast of the situation, getting his coffee, taking a dump, and calling the VA prez' voicemail to try to coordinate efforts for dealing with public perception.
that's my guess - which they obviously cannot admit - they didn't act because they didn't want to be on MSNBC for the double-shooting and lockdown.
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what's HRT? hostage response? I'm referring to the initial 2 killings they stopped investigations of.
If they did have plans to do something themselves, that might be a reasonable explanation. No presence for 2 hours, very odd. It's probably just the local campus police waiting for their chief to come in, then him getting abreast of the situation, getting his coffee, taking a dump, and calling the VA prez' voicemail to try to coordinate efforts for dealing with public perception.
that's my guess - which they obviously cannot admit - they didn't act because they didn't want to be on MSNBC for the double-shooting and lockdown.
HRT... Feds on Steroids!!! :D
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lol. What took so long? You knew the CT nuts would be all over this one. The sinister government at it again. ::)
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HRT... Feds on Steroids!!! :D
You're a moron. Most are ex-SEAL,Delta, SF, Ranger who deal with Hostage Rescues in the US and word is they were getting flown in from Quantico.
lol. What took so long? You knew the CT nuts would be all over this one. The sinister government at it again. ::)
OF course they did. Everything is a conspiracy.
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lol. What took so long? You knew the CT nuts would be all over this one. The sinister government at it again. ::)
nah, they're pointing out that the feds ordered staties and campus cops to stand down. obviously that's interesting.
but prison planet isn't making a deal of it, and neither are people here.
settle down, beavis.
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You're a moron. Most are ex-SEAL,Delta, SF, Ranger who deal with Hostage Rescues in the US and word is they were getting flown in from Quantico.
OF course they did. Everything is a conspiracy.
Tell me about it.
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nah, they're pointing out that the feds ordered staties and campus cops to stand down. obviously that's interesting.
but prison planet isn't making a deal of it, and neither are people here.
settle down, beavis.
Okay Mrs. Doubtfire.
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Okay Mrs. Doubtfire.
You disrespect your wife when you say that.
I pity her.
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You disrespect your wife when you say that.
I pity her.
http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0107614/
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Your wife worked very hard raising your 17-year old daughter, BB.
Did you mock her for her efforts as you mock me for mine?
Don't you respect yourself, your family?
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FBI hostage rescue are the best door kickers out there but most aren't even prior military..they have a way of doing things thats different the Delta and the Seals etc......With their expertise and being close by at Quantico, it makes sense that they'd be called in.....not sure why everthing that happens is a CT event.
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Your wife worked very hard raising your 17-year old daughter, BB.
Did you mock her for her efforts as you mock me for mine?
Don't you respect yourself, your family?
Go wash them dishes boy.
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You're a moron. Most are ex-SEAL,Delta, SF, Ranger who deal with Hostage Rescues in the US and word is they were getting flown in from Quantico.
OF course they did. Everything is a conspiracy.
Chill out asshole, it's a joke hense the cheesy smile... HRT= Hormone Replacement Therapy= FBI on Steroids :D
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Go wash them dishes boy.
You disrespect your wife.
I pity her.
You belittle what she did for your child.
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FBI hostage rescue are the best door kickers out there but most aren't even prior military..they have a way of doing things thats different the Delta and the Seals etc......With their expertise and being close by at Quantico, it makes sense that they'd be called in.....not sure why everthing that happens is a CT event.
uhm, when the guy is in the middle of shooting the crap out of everyone, it makes sense not to have cops that are there go in and end the fucker? Yea, not in my book. Not to me, I would be fucking pissed as all hell if I were there or had a loved one there. Exuse me, but fuck that, the guy is activly killing people... blame blame blame, you don't wait for shit!!!!!!!!
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You guys leave eachothers families alone.
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FBI hostage rescue are the best door kickers out there but most aren't even prior military..they have a way of doing things thats different the Delta and the Seals etc......With their expertise and being close by at Quantico, it makes sense that they'd be called in.....not sure why everthing that happens is a CT event.
We disagree based on what I know (prior service, etc) but bottom line is they are the shit.
uhm, when the guy is in the middle of shooting the crap out of everyone, it makes sense not to have cops that are there go in and end the fucker? Yea, not in my book. Not to me, I would be fucking pissed as all hell if I were there or had a loved one there. Exuse me, but fuck that, the guy is activly killing people... blame blame blame, you don't wait for shit!!!!!!!!
They have a part time SWAT team. You have demonstrated no knowledge on the subject so take a Hydrocodone and relax, and you tell me to chill out. ::)
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We disagree based on what I know (prior service, etc) but bottom line is they are the shit.
They have a part time SWAT team. You have demonstrated no knowledge on the subject so take a Hydrocodone and relax, and you tell me to chill out. ::)
You're the one that jumped my shit for making a joke ::)
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You're the one that jumped my shit for making a joke ::)
It wasn't funny. It makes highly trained guys seem like loose renegades. Hope that helps.
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It wasn't funny. It makes highly trained guys seem like loose renegades. Hope that helps.
::) a wee bit anal retentive for being "comfortably numb" ::)
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::) a wee bit anal retentive for being "comfortably numb" ::)
Lol. Keep reaching. ;D
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Lol. Keep reaching. ;D
actually that was a slam dunk ;)
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actually that was a slam dunk ;)
Ironic you would use a BB term. Lol. Like I said, keep reaching. It's a good song. 8)
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Ironic you would use a BB term. Lol. Like I said, keep reaching. It's a good song. 8)
BB invented Slam Dunk :-\ It's actually a common saying bubba. What is it you think I'm reaching for? I hit it and you know it ;D
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BB invented Slam Dunk :-\ It's actually a common saying bubba. What is it you think I'm reaching for? I hit it and you know it ;D
Hit what? You seem like you have accomplished something. Let me know...
Anyways, from what I heard their SWAT team was a joke and could have been the reason for it. I would much rather let HRT take him down than amateurs.
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ALL THESE SO CALLED PARA MILITARY UNITS ARE JOKES !
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ALL THESE SO CALLED PARA MILITARY UNITS ARE JOKES !
Thanks gimmick. Geez, what clown. ::)
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I would much rather let HRT take him down than amateurs.
Incase you didn't pick up on the news Gomer Pile, he accomplished his shooting spree and offed himself, students probably died because of people who think like you do... ::)
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Incase you didn't pick up on the news Gomer Pile, he accomplished his shooting spree and offed himself, students probably died because of people who think like you do... ::)
Gomer Pile. Lol. Let me get you a good pole for your fishing spree. Seriously, they are dead because he killed them. Police thought it was an isolated incident, he went on the other side of campus, locked down a building and the amateur SWAT team, who trains once a month didn't know how to respond. Hope that helps.
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Gomer Pile. Lol. Let me get you a good pole for your fishing spree. Seriously, they are dead because he killed them. Police thought it was an isolated incident, he went on the other side of campus, locked down a building and the amateur SWAT team, who trains once a month didn't know how to respond. Hope that helps.
I've been watching TV land ;D and you're a gomer so it works for me :P
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Police and EMT workers at Virginia Tech tell us that campus police were given a federal order to stand down and not pursue killer Cho Seung-Hui as Monday's bloodshed unfolded.... So I wonder is Paul a liar? The guys at prison planet are not liars IMO.
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I've been watching TV land ;D and you're a gomer so it works for me :P
Okay sure. ::) No wonder you defend Jag, you two operate the same way. Focus on the issue not me for once. You cannot stay on topic or fail to resort to name calling because it makes you feel better I guess. This and the abortion threads highlight that well. Good luck with that.
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ALL THESE SO CALLED PARA MILITARY UNITS ARE JOKES !
AM SURE THEY WHERE MAKING DUNKIN DONUTS RUNS !
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I really can't believe we've CT'ed the VT thing. ::)
but then again i can.
Do you think the SK dude was really a hologram?
:)
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ALL THESE SO CALLED PARA MILITARY UNITS ARE JOKES !
AM SURE THEY WHERE MAKING DUNKIN DONUTS RUNS !
Hmmm, what is your military background. Please, tell us.
I really can't believe we've CT'ed the VT thing. ::)
but then again i can.
Do you think the SK dude was really a hologram?
:)
Yes, a yellow holgoram. ;D
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Gentlemen,
You cannot "CT" anything yet. There is no official report.
It's just people curious why the feds would order staties and campus cops not to follow normal procedure. Anytime an odd change causes 32 deaths, it's worth looking into. To ignore a change which created circumstances allowing for tragedy would be irresponsible.
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Gentlemen,
You cannot "CT" anything yet. There is no official report.
It's just people curious why the feds would order staties and campus cops not to follow normal procedure. Anytime an odd change causes 32 deaths, it's worth looking into. To ignore a change which created circumstances allowing for tragedy would be irresponsible.
I'm not ignoring it.
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CTing this is pathetic.
"This explains the complete non-response of the police in the two hour gap between Cho's first two murders and the wider rampage that would follow later that morning.
The policy of federal control over the University was put in place following a previous shooting in August 2006 in which a police officer and a hospital security guard were killed. " http://www.prisonplanet.com/articles/april2007/200407standdown.htm
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you're trivializing it with the hologram crack.
If the investigating body does as they said - and assign zero blame for any police failures - there will be CT talk. Following standard procedure would have prevented that target-rich environment. And typically deviations from standard procedure are noted and analyzed. When ignored, a shadow of doube is cast on the credibility of the investigative body.
Then, people start to wonder why the feds would change policy which allowed it to happen, and why another federal group refused to investigate it, even as the victims' families begged. Sound familiar? ;) *that* is why people will yell inside job. The groups covering each others' asses - at the very least cause for demotion or firing. Yet some folks feel better making cracks about people who ask common sense questions.
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CTing this is pathetic.
"This explains the complete non-response of the police in the two hour gap between Cho's first two murders and the wider rampage that would follow later that morning.
The policy of federal control over the University was put in place following a previous shooting in August 2006 in which a police officer and a hospital security guard were killed. " http://www.prisonplanet.com/articles/april2007/200407standdown.htm
Agreed.
Would you agree that the investigating group saying "we are not going to look at any police failures" is going to make people wonder, though?
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Agreed.
Would you agree that the investigating group saying "we are not going to look at any police failures" is going to make people wonder, though?
The only failure is not forseeing the future. Honestly, the feds changed this policy in Aug 2006 like what I posted. It did not happen all of a sudden. They can look all they want but there was no reason to suspect a rampage. Sending out the email was about the only thing they could have, and did, based on the information they had. If anything, the only firing will be the Va Tech Police Chief but that would be much IMO. With a large campus you will still have a target rich environment.
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The only failure is not forseeing the future. Honestly, the feds changed this policy in Aug 2006 like what I posted. It did not happen all of a sudden. They can look all they want but there was no reason to suspect a rampage. Sending out the email was about the only thing they could have, and did, based on the information they had. If anything, the only firing will be the Va Tech Police Chief but that would be much IMO. With a large campus you will still have a target rich environment.
Neither you nor I can POSSIBLY know what failures the police had that day. I would be an assumptive fool to say they fcked up, and you would be naive to say they had no failures except to lack ability to look at the future.
The fact is, until the police performance is clearly detailed, we don't know. And I can give you 32 *really* good reasons why police performance should be analyzied for any failures.
Honestly cap86, you've been saying this from moment 1 - that "closing campus would not have saved lives" - do you still stand by that?
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you're trivializing it with the hologram crack.
If the investigating body does as they said - and assign zero blame for any police failures - there will be CT talk. Following standard procedure would have prevented that target-rich environment. And typically deviations from standard procedure are noted and analyzed. When ignored, a shadow of doube is cast on the credibility of the investigative body.
Then, people start to wonder why the feds would change policy which allowed it to happen, and why another federal group refused to investigate it, even as the victims' families begged. Sound familiar? ;) *that* is why people will yell inside job. The groups covering each others' asses - at the very least cause for demotion or firing. Yet some folks feel better making cracks about people who ask common sense questions.
Umm i was just being a smart ass. sorry.
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Neither you nor I can POSSIBLY know what failures the police had that day. I would be an assumptive fool to say they fcked up, and you would be naive to say they had no failures except to lack ability to look at the future.
The fact is, until the police performance is clearly detailed, we don't know. And I can give you 32 *really* good reasons why police performance should be analyzied for any failures.
Honestly cap86, you've been saying this from moment 1 - that "closing campus would not have saved lives" - do you still stand by that?
No, I said that closing the campus would not have prevented any more deaths, meaning that people still would/could have been shot. Like their Pres said, 11-14,000 people coming onto campus then I stand by my original statement. Most campuses don't think about this and you take big universities like this and consider the size of the campus and the size of police forces then people still would have been killed. Take a look at the map of the campus and distance between the 2 halls (numbered 132 and 32) and see how easy it would have been to do this anywhere. http://bp1.blogger.com/_Id1tByiOSo8/RiPIzlHSnbI/AAAAAAAAAhw/m2sP0WneNhg/s1600-h/vt_campus_map.jpg
That link is the campus map.
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Umm i was just being a smart ass. sorry.
ah cool.
In the whole VT shooting, I posted what I believed would be the CT angle that same night, made it very clear that i believed it was just one kid with a score to settle. I also said that we would want to watch the police work very close that day to see if there were failures.
I don't want cap86 or BB or anyone else to claim I think there is anything to this one - I don't. But I *do* think that a federal investigating body should completely study and dissect the actions of federal agents that day whose actions negatively influenced the situation. To say up front "we are not looking into police failures" stinks.
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ah cool.
In the whole VT shooting, I posted what I believed would be the CT angle that same night, made it very clear that i believed it was just one kid with a score to settle. I also said that we would want to watch the police work very close that day to see if there were failures.
I don't want cap86 or BB or anyone else to claim I think there is anything to this one - I don't. But I *do* think that a federal investigating body should completely study and dissect the actions of federal agents that day whose actions negatively influenced the situation. To say up front "we are not looking into police failures" stinks.
Rob, we are just discussing. No worries. You didn't even bring it up initially if I remember correctly.
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No, I said that closing the campus would not have prevented any more deaths, meaning that people still would/could have been shot.
If the campus had been closed by 9 AM (that's 90 minutes to do it!), there would have been ZERO classrooms for that kid to use to kill trapped people.
He *could* have done anything in the open field of a campus filled with cops chasing people out. But look at this:
Would he have shot 50 and killed 32 in a campus where kids had been told to leave for the last 90 minutes?
Would he have shot 50 and killed 32 in a campus where kids knew about the shooting?
Would he have shot 50 and killed 32 in a campus where kids had a chance to run/duck/roll/sprint away outdoors?
If those buildings had been locked, those kids never would have entered that fish-in-a-barrel situation and deaths would have been less, and security would have had OUTDOOR access to kill the kid before he had 30 minutes of roaming kill time.
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Rob, we are just discussing. No worries. You didn't even bring it up initially if I remember correctly.
:) The second the shooting started, I posted that it was going to take all the press of of Gonzalez testimony the next day. I also posted for our VT readers about 30 minutes before their own school told them :(
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Did you even look at that map? It takes a long time to clear a building and lock it down. This police force was small and not very experienced, hence the need for HRT presence.
90 minutes when your police force is on the other side of campus interviewing witnesses, securing a scene, collecting evidence and searching for a suspect over there.
:) The second the shooting started, I posted that it was going to take all the press of of Gonzalez testimony the next day. I also posted for our VT readers about 30 minutes before their own school told them :(
I still don't think you are trying to do that but if you are..... ;D
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Gentlemen,
You cannot "CT" anything yet. There is no official report.
It's just people curious why the feds would order staties and campus cops not to follow normal procedure. Anytime an odd change causes 32 deaths, it's worth looking into. To ignore a change which created circumstances allowing for tragedy would be irresponsible.
exactly, there couldn't possibly be a CT formed yet but this makes it worth looking into.
holy shit mention anything about a CT and Bam, they're ready to attack
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So easy to find the answers after something happens......
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So easy to find the answers after something happens......
true. information moves so slowly sometimes, especially early in the morning and between different departments (campus cops and state police).
they should look into it, but it looks like just slow police work, not bad police work.