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Getbig Main Boards => Politics and Political Issues Board => Topic started by: Tre on May 15, 2007, 06:14:44 PM

Title: Jerry Falwell dead
Post by: Tre on May 15, 2007, 06:14:44 PM

http://www.cnn.com/2007/POLITICS/05/15/falwell.politics/index.html

Open the books!
Title: Re: Jerry Falwell dead
Post by: Straw Man on May 15, 2007, 10:32:38 PM
God Bless

Good Riddance
Title: Re: Jerry Falwell dead
Post by: ieffinhatecardio on May 15, 2007, 10:45:01 PM
If Heaven condones hating those that are different than he should feel right at home.
Title: Re: Jerry Falwell dead
Post by: Mr. Intenseone on May 15, 2007, 10:47:15 PM
If Heaven condones hating those that are different than he should feel right at home.

Hate? What hate?
Title: Re: Jerry Falwell dead
Post by: Hedgehog on May 16, 2007, 02:58:47 AM
Hate? What hate?

Falwell stated

 "I really believe that the pagans, and the abortionists, and the feminists, and the gays and the lesbians who are actively trying to make that an alternative lifestyle, the ACLU, People For the American Way, all of them who have tried to secularize America," he said. "I point the finger in their face and say 'You helped this happen.

http://dynamic.cnn.com/apps/tp/video/us/2007/05/15/snow.falwell.controversies.cnn/video.ws.asx?NGUserID=aa5121e-29130-1178040909-1&adDEmas=R08%26hi%26%3F%260%26swe%26-1%260%2611361%26-%26-%26-%26

Not the brightest bulb in the lighthouse.

RIP big guy.

-Hedge
Title: Re: Jerry Falwell dead
Post by: Decker on May 16, 2007, 06:43:39 AM
He and Pat Robertson are the gold standard for mixing fundamentalist religion with politics in this country.
Title: Re: Jerry Falwell dead
Post by: egj13 on May 16, 2007, 06:46:10 AM
He and Pat Robertson are the gold standard for mixing fundamentalist religion with politics in this country.

as cookoo as falwell was, I just don't understand hatred towards him. I don't have hatred for anyone like people do for falwell
Title: Re: Jerry Falwell dead
Post by: Decker on May 16, 2007, 07:04:05 AM
as cookoo as falwell was, I just don't understand hatred towards him. I don't have hatred for anyone like people do for falwell
Is it blind hatred?  Or does the vitriol have an object?

From my perspective, this man mounted a grassroots assault on our Constitution and on the ideals of which American life is predicated based on a primitive and sadistic interpretation of Christianity.
Title: Re: Jerry Falwell dead
Post by: egj13 on May 16, 2007, 07:49:58 AM
Is it blind hatred?  Or does the vitriol have an object?

From my perspective, this man mounted a grassroots assault on our Constitution and on the ideals of which American life is predicated based on a primitive and sadistic interpretation of Christianity.

Hey I am not disagreeing about what a fool he was. I just don't have hatred in me for anyone, not even the people bombing me when I was in Iraq
Title: Re: Jerry Falwell dead
Post by: ieffinhatecardio on May 16, 2007, 08:30:06 AM
Hate? What hate?

Interesting, Mr. Hate can't see that Falwell was just like him and hated people that didn't think the exact same way he did.

Good job.
Title: Re: Jerry Falwell dead
Post by: Straw Man on May 16, 2007, 08:31:29 AM
word's of wisdom from the "reverend"

      “Christians, like slaves and soldiers, ask no questions”

    
Title: Re: Jerry Falwell dead
Post by: Mr. Intenseone on May 16, 2007, 10:07:57 AM
Falwell stated

 "I really believe that the pagans, and the abortionists, and the feminists, and the gays and the lesbians who are actively trying to make that an alternative lifestyle, the ACLU, People For the American Way, all of them who have tried to secularize America," he said. "I point the finger in their face and say 'You helped this happen.

http://dynamic.cnn.com/apps/tp/video/us/2007/05/15/snow.falwell.controversies.cnn/video.ws.asx?NGUserID=aa5121e-29130-1178040909-1&adDEmas=R08%26hi%26%3F%260%26swe%26-1%260%2611361%26-%26-%26-%26

Not the brightest bulb in the lighthouse.

RIP big guy.

-Hedge

The computer I'm on right now has no speakers, In reguards to the quote that you posted......he's right and because he makes a comment like that you automactically assume that he hates. I don't agree with everything he has said and some of his comments were waaay out of line.
Title: Re: Jerry Falwell dead
Post by: Mr. Intenseone on May 16, 2007, 10:15:06 AM
He and Pat Robertson are the gold standard for mixing fundamentalist religion with politics in this country.

Hey dude, Fallwell and Robertson don't have anything compared to Sharpton and Jackson, but I can tell you Fallwell and Robertson are light years ahead of those two clowns when it comes to helping people.......ALL PEOPLE!!
Title: Re: Jerry Falwell dead
Post by: Dos Equis on May 16, 2007, 10:41:50 AM
RIP.  Very controversial figure.  I think he grew quite a bit over his career.  He started off as a bigot, essentially opposing the civil rights movement, but eventually did some very good things, e.g., founding a university.  He was sort of a shock jock of religious leaders.  Always stuck to his guns. 
Title: Re: Jerry Falwell dead
Post by: Decker on May 16, 2007, 10:42:45 AM
...In reguards to the quote that you posted......he's right and because he makes a comment like that you automactically assume that he hates. I don't agree with everything he has said and some of his comments were waaay out of line.
What exactly is he right about?
Title: Re: Jerry Falwell dead
Post by: Decker on May 16, 2007, 10:46:09 AM
If you're not a born-again Christian, you're a failure as a human being.
-- Rev Jerry Falwell (attributed: source unknown)

This is probably as bad a day as the court has had on social issues since "Roe v Wade."
-- Rev Jerry Falwell, reacting to the Supreme Court's ruling in the Texas sodomy case, "Lawrence v. Texas," wherein the high court upheld an individual's (or a couple's) right to privacy; "It is a promise of the Constitution that there is a realm of personal liberty which the government may not enter," said Justice Anthony M Kennedy, for the majority in an opinion "as broad in its constitutional vision as any ever issued by the court," wrote Charles Lane for The Washington Post; in his dissent, Justice Antonin Scalia, an extremist Evangelical Christian, complained that the justices voting to uphold the right to privacy were creating a new constitutional right, that they were not upholding the Constitution, quoted from "Planned Parenthood Federal Action Report" (July, 2003) ††

I had a student ask me, "Could the savior you believe in save Osama bin Laden?" Of course, we know the blood of Jesus Christ can save him, and then he must be executed.
-- Rev Jerry Falwell, cited in Cary McMullen, "Falwell: Now Is the Time for Gospel," in the Lakeland (Florida) Ledger (November 12, 2001), quoted from Randy Cassingham, This is True (18 November 2001). Falwell added: "We visit prisoners on death row, and some of them are saved, but we believe their sentences should be carried out because they have a debt to society."

God continues to lift the curtain and allow the enemies of America to give us probably what we deserve.
-- Rev Jerry Falwell, blaming civil libertarians, feminists, homosexuals, and abortion rights supporters for the terrorist attacks of Tuesday, September 11, 2001, to which Rev Pat Robertson agreed, quoted from John F Harris, "God Gave US 'What We Deserve,' Falwell Says," The Washington Post (September 14, 2001)

The ACLU's got to take a lot of blame for this.
-- Rev Jerry Falwell, blaming civil libertarians for the terrorist attacks of Tuesday, September 11, 2001, to which Rev Pat Robertson again agreed, quoted from AANEWS #958 by American Atheists (September 14, 2001)

And, I know that I'll hear from them for this. But, throwing God out successfully with the help of the federal court system, throwing God out of the public square, out of the schools. The abortionists have got to bear some burden for this because God will not be mocked. And when we destroy 40 million little innocent babies, we make God mad. I really believe that the pagans, and the abortionists, and the feminists, and the gays and the lesbians who are actively trying to make that an alternative lifestyle, the ACLU, People for the American Way -- all of them who have tried to secularize America -- I point the finger in their face and say, "You helped this happen."
-- Rev Jerry Falwell, blaming civil libertarians, feminists, homosexuals, and abortion rights supporters for the terrorist attacks of Tuesday, September 11, 2001, quoted from John F Harris, "God Gave US 'What We Deserve,' Falwell Says," The Washington Post (September 14, 2001)

I sincerely believe that the collective efforts of many secularists during the past generation, resulting in the expulsion from our schools and from the public square, has left us vulnerable.
-- Rev Jerry Falwell, after the 700 Club broadcast wherein he had blamed civil libertarians, feminists, homosexuals, and abortion rights supporters for the terrorist attacks of Tuesday, September 11, 2001, speaking to The New York Times, quoted from Dick Meyer, "Holy Smoke," CBS News (September 15, 2001)

I put all the blame legally and morally on the actions of the terrorist, [but America's] secular and anti-Christian environment left us open to our Lord's [decision] not to protect. When a nation deserts God and expels God from the culture ... the result is not good.
-- Rev Jerry Falwell, backpedaling amidst criticism of his statement blaming civil libertarians, feminists, homosexuals, and abortion rights supporters for the terrorist attacks of Tuesday, September 11, 2001, quoted from John F Harris, "God Gave US 'What We Deserve,' Falwell Says," The Washington Post (September 14, 2001)

Pat, did you notice yesterday the ACLU, and all the Christ-haters, People For the American Way, NOW, etc. were totally disregarded by the Democrats and the Republicans in both houses of Congress as they went out on the steps and called out on to God in prayer and sang "God Bless America" and said "let the ACLU be hanged"? In other words, when the nation is on its knees, the only normal and natural and spiritual thing to do is what we ought to be doing all the time -- calling upon God.
-- Rev Jerry Falwell, justifying the breech of Constitutional Separation of Religion from Government while blaming civil libertarians for the terrorist attacks of Tuesday, September 11, 2001, to which Rev Pat Robertson again agreed, quoted from AANEWS #958 by American Atheists (September 14, 2001)

I hope I live to see the day when, as in the early days of our country, we won't have any public schools. The churches will have taken them over again and Christians will be running them. What a happy day that will be!
-- Rev Jerry Falwell, America Can Be Saved, 1979 pp. 52-53, from Albert J Menendez and Edd Doerr, The Great Quotations on Religious Freedom

AIDS is not just God's punishment for homosexuals; it is God's punishment for the society that tolerates homosexuals.
-- Jerry Falwell (attributed: source unknown)

The idea that religion and politics don't mix was invented by the Devil to keep Christians from running their own country.
-- Rev Jerry Falwell, Sermon, July 4, 1976

If we are going to save America and evangelize the world, we cannot accommodate secular philosophies that are diametrically opposed to Christian truth ... We need to pull out all the stops to recruit and train 25 million Americans to become informed pro-moral activists whose voices can be heard in the halls of Congress.
     I am convinced that America can be turned around if we will all get serious about the Master's business. It may be late, but it is never too late to do what is right. We need an old-fashioned, God-honoring, Christ-exalting revival to turn American back to God. America can be saved!
-- Jerry Falwell, "Moral Majority Report" for September, 1984

It appears that America's anti-Biblical feminist movement is at last dying, thank God, and is possibly being replaced by a Christ-centered men's movement which may become the foundation for a desperately needed national spiritual awakening.
-- Jerry Falwell (attributed: source unknown)

There is no separation of church and state. Modern US Supreme Courts have raped the Constitution and raped the Christian faith and raped the churches by misinterpreting what the Founders had in mind in the First Amendment to the Constitution.
-- Jerry Falwell (attributed: source unknown)

The Bible is the inerrant ... word of the living God. It is absolutely infallible,without error in all matters pertaining to faith and practice, as well as in areas such as geography, science, history, etc.
-- Jerry Falwell, Finding Inner Peace and Strength

But these things speak evil of those things, verse 10 [reading from Jude] which they know not: but what they know naturally, as brute beasts, in those things they corrupt themselves. Look at the Metropolitan Community Church today, the gay church, almost accepted into the World Council of Churches. Almost, the vote was against them. But they will try again and again until they get in, and the tragedy is that they would get one vote. Because they are spoken of here in Jude as being brute beasts, that is going to the baser lust of the flesh to live immorally, and so Jude describes this as apostasy. But thank God this vile and satanic system will one day be utterly annihilated and there'll be a celebration in heaven.
-- Rev Jerry Falwell, "Old Time Gospel Hour" broadcast, March 11, 1984, quoted by Rev Jerry Sloan, "Is Jerry Falwell a liar?" Freedom Writer, September, 1994

The Jews are returning to their land of unbelief. They are spiritually blind and desperately in need of their Messiah and Savior.
-- Jerry Falwell, Listen, America!

Grown men should not be having sex with prostitutes unless they are married to them.
-- Jerry Falwell, on CNN's Crossfire, May 17, 1997

I do not believe the homosexual community deserves minority status. One's misbehavior does not qualify him or her for minority status. Blacks, Hispanics, women, etc., are God-ordained minorities who do indeed deserve minority status.
-- Rev Jerry Falwell, USA Today Chat, quoted from The Religious Freedom Coalition, "The Two faces of Jerry Falwell"

Dan Moldea, the lead investigator for Larry Flynt's ongoing quest to uncover sexual indiscretions of Republican congressional members, has now admitted he was hired by the law firm defending President Clinton.
-- Rev Jerry Falwell, from "The Bizarre Flynt-Clinton Connection," in the January 15, 1999, "Falwell Confidential" fax report to 162,000 members, referring to the firm Williams & Connolly. Dan Moldea responded, "This entire statement is false and misleading, reckless and malicious. It is a complete fabrication." However, the San Diego Union-Tribune picked up the fabrication and ran it as fact. Quoted from The Religious Freedom Coalition, "The Two faces of Jerry Falwell."

We're fighting against humanism, we're fighting against liberalism ... we are fighting against all the systems of Satan that are destroying our nation today ... our battle is with Satan himself.
-- Rev Jerry Falwell (attributed: source unknown)

Billy Graham is the chief servant of Satan.
-- Rev Jerry Falwell (attributed: source unknown)


The ACLU is to Christians what the American Nazi party is to Jews.
-- Rev Jerry Falwell (attributed: source unknown)

AIDS is the wrath of a just God against homosexuals. To oppose it would be like an Israelite jumping in the Red Sea to save one of Pharoah's chariotters.
-- Rev Jerry Falwell (attributed: source unknown)

You'll be riding along in an automobile. You'll be the driver perhaps. You're a Christian. There'll be several people in the automobile with you, maybe someone who is not a Christian. When the trumpet sounds you and the other born-again believers in that automobile will be instantly caught away -- you will disappear, leaving behind only your clothes and physical things that cannot inherit eternal life. That unsaved person or persons in the automobile will suddenly be startled to find the car suddenly somewhere crashes.... Other cars on the highway driven by believers will suddenly be out of control and stark pandemonium will occur on ... every highway in the world where Christians are caught away from the drivers wheel.
-- Rev Jerry Falwell, in his pamphlet, "Nuclear War and the Second Coming of Christ," quoted from Ronnie Dugger,"Does Reagan Expect a Nuclear Armageddon?" in Washington Post Outlook (April 8, 1984)

http://www.positiveatheism.org/hist/quotes/foulwell.htm

Some of those quotes look like the rantings of a lunatic mind to me.
Title: Re: Jerry Falwell dead
Post by: Dos Equis on May 16, 2007, 10:48:42 AM
I like his comment about Hillary energizing the opposition base better than Lucifer.   :)
Title: Re: Jerry Falwell dead
Post by: Decker on May 16, 2007, 10:50:39 AM
I like his comment about Hillary energizing the opposition base better than Lucifer.   :)
hahahaha....oh jeez, you would.
Title: Re: Jerry Falwell dead
Post by: CQ on May 16, 2007, 10:53:48 AM
The man was a total fruit.
Title: Re: Jerry Falwell dead
Post by: Dos Equis on May 16, 2007, 11:03:01 AM
hahahaha....oh jeez, you would.

I liked it because it was funny . . . and pretty accurate.   :)  There isn't a candidate in the race more polarizing than Hillary. 
Title: Re: Jerry Falwell dead
Post by: Mr. Intenseone on May 16, 2007, 11:21:24 AM
I disagree with alot of that especially the comment about Billy Graham (the greatest evangelical leader of our time IMO) although I wouldn't say it as harsh as he did.....the ACLU is scum and truly the works of the devil. But all in all......again, not nearly as bad as Sharpton or Jackson!
Title: Re: Jerry Falwell dead
Post by: Decker on May 16, 2007, 11:29:52 AM
I disagree with alot of that especially the comment about Billy Graham (the greatest evangelical leader of our time IMO) although I wouldn't say it as harsh as he did.....the ACLU is scum and truly the works of the devil. But all in all......again, not nearly as bad as Sharpton or Jackson!
How about Kent Hovind?

Or Robert Tilton?

Or Sun Myung Moon?

Why do you fixate on Sharpton and Jackson?  Why are they worse than Falwell?
Title: Re: Jerry Falwell dead
Post by: The Enigma on May 16, 2007, 12:26:25 PM
Hey dude, Fallwell and Robertson don't have anything compared to Sharpton and Jackson, but I can tell you Fallwell and Robertson are light years ahead of those two clowns when it comes to helping people.......ALL PEOPLE!!

All 4 suck.
Title: Re: Jerry Falwell dead
Post by: Tre on May 16, 2007, 12:59:00 PM
as cookoo as falwell was, I just don't understand hatred towards him. I don't have hatred for anyone like people do for falwell

It's a completely natural and reasonable reaction to hold contempt for someone who seeks to take away your individual liberties.
Title: Re: Jerry Falwell dead
Post by: egj13 on May 16, 2007, 01:05:34 PM
It's a completely natural and reasonable reaction to hold contempt for someone who seeks to take away your individual liberties.

what liberties of your did he impact?
Title: Re: Jerry Falwell dead
Post by: Tre on May 16, 2007, 01:19:23 PM
what liberties of your did he impact?

It doesn't matter whether he was successful.  His intent was clear, because he verbalized it.
Title: Re: Jerry Falwell dead
Post by: Dos Equis on May 16, 2007, 01:20:29 PM
What individual liberties was he trying to take away? 
Title: Re: Jerry Falwell dead
Post by: egj13 on May 16, 2007, 01:34:28 PM
It doesn't matter whether he was successful.  His intent was clear, because he verbalized it.


So you have hatred for a person because of his thoughts?
Title: Re: Jerry Falwell dead
Post by: Decker on May 16, 2007, 01:36:33 PM
What individual liberties was he trying to take away? 
The right to privacy btn a pregnant woman and her doctor.

The right of liberty and pursuit of happiness by homosexuals.

Really the entire 4th amendment was anathema to the man.

As was:  Jerry Falwell v. Larry Flynt: THE FIRST AMENDMENT ON TRIAL

http://www.amazon.com/Jerry-Falwell-Larry-Flynt-AMENDMENT/dp/0252061519
Title: Re: Jerry Falwell dead
Post by: Dos Equis on May 16, 2007, 01:41:05 PM
The right to privacy btn a pregnant woman and her doctor.

The right of liberty and pursuit of happiness by homosexuals.

Really the entire 4th amendment was anathema to the man.

As was:  Jerry Falwell v. Larry Flynt: THE FIRST AMENDMENT ON TRIAL

http://www.amazon.com/Jerry-Falwell-Larry-Flynt-AMENDMENT/dp/0252061519

So . . . you mean:

1.  Abortion.

2.  State sanctioned homosexual marriage.

3.  Fourth Amendment?  What did he have to say about unreasonable searches and seizures? 
Title: Re: Jerry Falwell dead
Post by: Decker on May 16, 2007, 02:10:30 PM
So . . . you mean:

1.  Abortion.

2.  State sanctioned homosexual marriage.

3.  Fourth Amendment?  What did he have to say about unreasonable searches and seizures? 
He also wanted to ban alcohol.  Take that as crush to our liberties.

Sorry about the mistake--I meant the 14th Amendment and not the 4th (although I'd like to see his stance on privacy implicit in the 4th A).  I'm trying to multitask and I'm not proofreading the posts again.

The 14thA deals w/ equal protection/due process/civil rights.
Title: Re: Jerry Falwell dead
Post by: tu_holmes on May 16, 2007, 02:13:39 PM
You can't deny he was a bigot... I mean, you can love God and all, but he was still a bigot.
Title: Re: Jerry Falwell dead
Post by: Laughing Sam's Dice on May 16, 2007, 03:39:36 PM
the ACLU is scum and truly the works of the devil.

Joe is against civil liberties in America.  That's the republican party for ya!
Title: Re: Jerry Falwell dead
Post by: Dos Equis on May 16, 2007, 04:04:36 PM
He also wanted to ban alcohol.  Take that as crush to our liberties.

Sorry about the mistake--I meant the 14th Amendment and not the 4th (although I'd like to see his stance on privacy implicit in the 4th A).  I'm trying to multitask and I'm not proofreading the posts again.

The 14thA deals w/ equal protection/due process/civil rights.

You can't mess with a man's guns or his beer.   :)

What 14th Amendment rights was he trying to take away? 
Title: Re: Jerry Falwell dead
Post by: ieffinhatecardio on May 16, 2007, 05:08:49 PM
You can't deny he was a bigot... I mean, you can love God and all, but he was still a bigot.

Sure they can, these are the same apologists that deny Bush has done anything wrong.

Head in the sand is a beautiful way to navigate life.

Falwell hated people that were different than he was, his actions and words speak volumes.
Title: Re: Jerry Falwell dead
Post by: 24KT on May 16, 2007, 05:23:13 PM
Did he have a heart attack after discovering his name was on the DC Madam's client list?

...or was he struck by lightening?  ???
Title: Re: Jerry Falwell dead
Post by: spotter on May 16, 2007, 05:24:55 PM
http://www.cnn.com/2007/POLITICS/05/15/falwell.politics/index.html

Open the books!

Yes he is dead! :'(
Title: Re: Jerry Falwell dead
Post by: Mr. Intenseone on May 16, 2007, 09:10:12 PM
Joe is against civil liberties in America.  That's the republican party for ya!

Hahahaha the aclu is a BS organization, it's a freaking joke!
Title: Re: Jerry Falwell dead
Post by: Tre on May 17, 2007, 01:40:56 AM
So you have hatred for a person because of his thoughts?

Are you saying that he should *not* have been taken at his word(s)?
Title: Re: Jerry Falwell dead
Post by: Decker on May 17, 2007, 06:48:42 AM
You can't mess with a man's guns or his beer.   :)

What 14th Amendment rights was he trying to take away? 
Falwell was against equal rights for women.  Falwell supported segregation for a good part of his life.  Falwell opposed any rights for homosexuals:  he favored discriminatory laws. 

It's a free country.  He could do all the railing he wanted...and he did.
Title: Re: Jerry Falwell dead
Post by: egj13 on May 17, 2007, 08:12:39 AM
Are you saying that he should *not* have been taken at his word(s)?

First I am only saying that I don't understand hate, but for arguments sake you said you had hate because he infringed on your rights, I asked which ones and you said none but he was trying to. I guess thoughts was a wrong term to use but how can you hate someone that really had zero impact on your life? He was just another radical christian. Serious man, I don't have hate for even radical muslims so I just don't understand.
Title: Re: Jerry Falwell dead
Post by: Laughing Sam's Dice on May 17, 2007, 08:40:13 AM
Hahahaha the aclu is a BS organization, it's a freaking joke!

So you're saying you want a stronger organization to defend civil liberties in the U.S.? 
Title: Re: Jerry Falwell dead
Post by: Old_Rooster on May 17, 2007, 08:59:13 AM
God Bless

Good Riddance
Teletubbies stock is on the rise!~
Title: Re: Jerry Falwell dead
Post by: Dos Equis on May 17, 2007, 09:04:40 AM
Falwell was against equal rights for women.  Falwell supported segregation for a good part of his life.  Falwell opposed any rights for homosexuals:  he favored discriminatory laws. 

It's a free country.  He could do all the railing he wanted...and he did.

How was he against equal rights for women? 

He supported segregation for part of his life.  To his credit, he came around on that issue. 

He didn't support making homosexuals a suspect class like race.  And if I'm not mistaken, pretty much every court that has issued an opinion on that issue agreed with Falwell that homosexuals are not a suspect class, so he wasn't advocating taking away rights under the 14th Amendment, because those rights don't exist (according to the courts). 
Title: Re: Jerry Falwell dead
Post by: Decker on May 17, 2007, 10:01:26 AM
How was he against equal rights for women? 

He supported segregation for part of his life.  To his credit, he came around on that issue. 

He didn't support making homosexuals a suspect class like race.  And if I'm not mistaken, pretty much every court that has issued an opinion on that issue agreed with Falwell that homosexuals are not a suspect class, so he wasn't advocating taking away rights under the 14th Amendment, because those rights don't exist (according to the courts). 
He wanted to keep women out of the armed forces when the question arose. 

Just b/c a court may find that homosexuality is not a suspect class under a d/p or e/p analysis doesn't mean that they don't have 14thA rights.  That just refers to the level of scrutiny the Court will use in determining the constitutionality of the legislation on review.
Title: Re: Jerry Falwell dead
Post by: The Enigma on May 17, 2007, 10:27:26 AM
Joe is against civil liberties in America.  That's the republican party for ya!

Sam, Mr Lib/Joe voted for Bill "blue dress" Clinton.

Mr Lib is now a dreaded "Repug", much like Rush "admitted felon" Limbaugh.
Title: Re: Jerry Falwell dead
Post by: Dos Equis on May 17, 2007, 10:34:10 AM
He wanted to keep women out of the armed forces when the question arose. 

Just b/c a court may not find that homosexuality is not a suspect class under a d/p or e/p analysis doesn't mean that they don't have 14thA rights.  That just refers to the level of scrutiny the Court will use in determining the constitutionality of the legislation on review.

There was a question about women serving in the armed forces?  I know about the issue of women in combat, but I don't recall a big debate (in my lifetime) about women serving in the armed forces. 

Homosexuals, bisexuals, cross-dressers, etc. already have due process and equal protection of the laws under the 14th Amendment.  If a homosexual man is arrested, he gets the same due process as a heterosexual man.  If a bisexual woman wants to get married, she can marry a man (unless she lives in Massachusetts) like any other woman.  What Falwell opposed was creating a new protected class of people, equating them race, etc.  Courts have refused to do this.   
Title: Re: Jerry Falwell dead
Post by: Decker on May 17, 2007, 11:14:32 AM
There was a question about women serving in the armed forces?  I know about the issue of women in combat, but I don't recall a big debate (in my lifetime) about women serving in the armed forces. 

Homosexuals, bisexuals, cross-dressers, etc. already have due process and equal protection of the laws under the 14th Amendment.  If a homosexual man is arrested, he gets the same due process as a heterosexual man.  If a bisexual woman wants to get married, she can marry a man (unless she lives in Massachusetts) like any other woman.  What Falwell opposed was creating a new protected class of people, equating them race, etc.  Courts have refused to do this.   

You are correct sir.  Women serving in combat was the issue of the day. 

Come on Beach Bum.  Does this sound like a man only interested in the judicial vicissitudes of suspect classes?

July 1984: Falwell is forced to pay gay activist Jerry Sloan $5,000 after losing a court battle.   During a TV debate in Sacramento, Falwell denied calling the gay-oriented Metropolitan Community Churches “brute beasts” and “a vile and Satanic system” that will “one day be utterly annihilated and there will be a celebration in heaven.” When Sloan insisted he had a tape, Falwell promised $5,000 if he could produce it. Sloan did so, Falwell refused to pay and Sloan successfully sued. Falwell appealed, with his attorney charging that the Jewish judge in the case was prejudiced. He lost again and was forced to pay an additional $2,875 in sanctions and court fees.

Title: Re: Jerry Falwell dead
Post by: Dos Equis on May 17, 2007, 11:29:42 AM
You are correct sir.  Women serving in combat was the issue of the day. 

Come on Beach Bum.  Does this sound like a man only interested in the judicial vicissitudes of suspect classes?

July 1984: Falwell is forced to pay gay activist Jerry Sloan $5,000 after losing a court battle.   During a TV debate in Sacramento, Falwell denied calling the gay-oriented Metropolitan Community Churches “brute beasts” and “a vile and Satanic system” that will “one day be utterly annihilated and there will be a celebration in heaven.” When Sloan insisted he had a tape, Falwell promised $5,000 if he could produce it. Sloan did so, Falwell refused to pay and Sloan successfully sued. Falwell appealed, with his attorney charging that the Jewish judge in the case was prejudiced. He lost again and was forced to pay an additional $2,875 in sanctions and court fees.



Decker there are two different issues here:

1.  How the law deals with homosexuals, bisexuals, cross-dressers, etc.  On this issue, I think we're talking about things like the 14th Amendment.

2.  Religious objections to homosexuality.  I think the 20-plus-year-old quote you referenced relates to his religious objections to homosexuality. 
Title: Re: Jerry Falwell dead
Post by: ribonucleic on May 17, 2007, 11:51:22 AM
I love the smell of dead demagogue in the morning.  ;D
Title: Re: Jerry Falwell dead
Post by: Decker on May 17, 2007, 12:11:40 PM
Decker there are two different issues here:

1.  How the law deals with homosexuals, bisexuals, cross-dressers, etc.  On this issue, I think we're talking about things like the 14th Amendment.

2.  Religious objections to homosexuality.  I think the 20-plus-year-old quote you referenced relates to his religious objections to homosexuality.
1.  yes we are.  Lawrence v. Texas, the SCT case striking down a texas law prohibiting the practice of sodomy btn consenting adults seems to be a step in the direction favoring homosexuals.  The sct recognized that the def.'s liberty was protected by substantive due process of the 14th A.  Anti-sodomy laws are everywhere in the country.  Now they are history.

I think it is only a matter of time before gay marriage is a federally protected right b/c it is in the interest of liberty & the pursuit of happiness and consistent with the 14th A.

But that's my opinion.

2.  Religious objections...no no.  I stand by that 20 year quote of his.  A sin is a sin.  This man, in his mind, thought he was doing god's work on earth.  Homosexuality is a sin counter to godliness.  This man would not stop at 'suspect classes.' 

I think that quote is closer to whom he really was than what you profess him to be.

 “brute beasts”... “one day be utterly annihilated and there will be a celebration in heaven.”

Title: Re: Jerry Falwell dead
Post by: Dos Equis on May 17, 2007, 12:23:57 PM
1.  yes we are.  Lawrence v. Texas, the SCT case striking down a texas law prohibiting the practice of sodomy btn consenting adults seems to be a step in the direction favoring homosexuals.  The sct recognized that the def.'s liberty was protected by substantive due process of the 14th A.  Anti-sodomy laws are everywhere in the country.  Now they are history.

I think it is only a matter of time before gay marriage is a federally protected right b/c it is in the interest of liberty & the pursuit of happiness and consistent with the 14th A.

But that's my opinion.

2.  Religious objections...no no.  I stand by that 20 year quote of his.  A sin is a sin.  This man, in his mind, thought he was doing god's work on earth.  Homosexuality is a sin counter to godliness.  This man would not stop at 'suspect classes.' 

I think that quote is closer to whom he really was than what you profess him to be.

 “brute beasts”... “one day be utterly annihilated and there will be a celebration in heaven.”



1.  I think we are well on our way to legalizing homosexual marriage.  It's only a matter of time.  But homosexual marriage can hardly be considered a federally (or state) protected right when we have the federal Defense of Marriage Act and something like 40+ states that have expressly rejected homosexual marriage. 

I don't see equating homosexuality, bisexuality, cross-dressing, etc. with things like race and national origin.  We are contorting our Constitution to put these lifestyle choices on par with innate qualities and things that are expressly mentioned, like religion. 

2.  The man was a preacher.  He was very consistent.  Any intellectually honest preacher who reads the Bible will oppose those lifestyle choices.  I don't fault him for that at all.

But I don't condone his delivery.  That kind of rhetoric, which he softened over the years, is wrong. 

I also disagreed with his views on church-state separation.   
Title: Re: Jerry Falwell dead
Post by: Decker on May 17, 2007, 12:33:53 PM
1.  I think we are well on our way to legalizing homosexual marriage.  It's only a matter of time.  But homosexual marriage can hardly be considered a federally (or state) protected right when we have the federal Defense of Marriage Act and something like 40+ states that have expressly rejected homosexual marriage. 

I don't see equating homosexuality, bisexuality, cross-dressing, etc. with things like race and national origin.  We are contorting our Constitution to put these lifestyle choices on par with innate qualities and things that are expressly mentioned, like religion. 

2.  The man was a preacher.  He was very consistent.  Any intellectually honest preacher who reads the Bible will oppose those lifestyle choices.  I don't fault him for that at all.

But I don't condone his delivery.  That kind of rhetoric, which he softened over the years, is wrong. 

I also disagreed with his views on church-state separation.   

He was controversial. 

That was fun.

You argue well.
Title: Re: Jerry Falwell dead
Post by: Dos Equis on May 17, 2007, 04:54:53 PM
He was controversial. 

That was fun.

You argue well.

Thanks mang.  So do you.   :)
Title: Re: Jerry Falwell dead
Post by: columbusdude82 on May 18, 2007, 03:27:37 PM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YkAPaEMwyKU (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YkAPaEMwyKU)

Here is Christopher Hitchens on CNN pwning Falwell. Awesome stuff!
Title: Re: Jerry Falwell dead
Post by: Mr. Intenseone on May 18, 2007, 03:41:55 PM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YkAPaEMwyKU (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YkAPaEMwyKU)

Here is Christopher Hitchens on CNN pwning Falwell. Awesome stuff!

Haha, the only time CNN has a conservative on and he happends to be an athiest!
Title: Re: Jerry Falwell dead
Post by: columbusdude82 on May 18, 2007, 04:55:08 PM
I saw Hitchens on Hannity & Colmes as well. I must say, he defended himself quite eloquently and Hannity got pwnd!!!
Title: Re: Jerry Falwell dead
Post by: Camel Jockey on May 18, 2007, 06:37:08 PM
Good riddance.
Title: Re: Jerry Falwell dead
Post by: columbusdude82 on January 13, 2008, 07:54:21 PM
BUMP for Christopher Hitchens.

His multiple TV appearances to discuss Falwell's death came just as his book "god is not Great: How Religion Poisons Everything" was coming out, and he was starting his book tour.

Needless to say, this got him a lot of extra exposure. It was certainly the way I heard of the book, and it changed me completely.