Getbig.com: American Bodybuilding, Fitness and Figure
Getbig Main Boards => Gossip & Opinions => Topic started by: Bluto on July 05, 2007, 07:50:38 AM
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guy seem to have legend status around certain parts... but i dont think he looks that good at all
what gives?
(http://www.mariostrong.com/muscleevolution/VINCEGIRONDA.jpg)
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didn't he claim to be natural? ::) ::)
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All I remember is that he didn't care for Arnold's arrogance and thought he was overrated.
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guy seem to have legend status around certain parts... but i dont think he looks that good at all
what gives?
(http://www.mariostrong.com/muscleevolution/VINCEGIRONDA.jpg)
Vince Gironda opposed to steroids. He had some interesting training philosophies one two of which were that the bench press was not great for chest and NO SQUATTING because it supposedly gives you wide hips and a big looking ass. I thought he had a great physique. His best pupils were Larry Scott and Mohamed Mokkawy.
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http://www.criticalbench.com/VinceGironda.htm
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well im not impressed with his physique. what so special with his chest for example?
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well im not impressed with his physique. what so special with his chest for example?
looks about 10x better than yours will ever be..that's what's special ;D
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looks about 10x better than yours will ever be..that's what's special ;D
that's all? then i was right there's nothing special with it
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are you kidding? he looks fuckng awesome...
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Gironda dip, negroids!
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:D
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a few examples from vinces list of common errors in bodybuilding
# overtraining (anything over 45 minutes is overtraining)
# bench presses for pecs
# leg presses
# jogging
# cheating exercises
# presses for deltoid
# mixing carbs and protein
# swimming
# side bends
# music in the gym (!)
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guy seem to have legend status around certain parts... but i don't think he looks that good at all
what gives?
(http://www.mariostrong.com/muscleevolution/VINCEGIRONDA.jpg)
you're out of your mind if you think Gironda looks like shit-------------------he's got a physique even the Greek sculptors would be jealous of
he was like Arnold in the way he shaped his body as a piece of art, finely crafting each line, symmetry and balance
his ideal physique or vision may not be what some prefer today----but in the sense of an actual attainable physique in natural terms I think his is pretty ideal -----and I also think if beginner bb's and kids looked up to his physique instead of someone like Ruhl's for example, the stigma of bbing wouldn't be as negative as it is today.
with that said though I do also appreciate the freaks of the sport----I like seeing the extremes of human development---but unlike some who appreciate the freaks I can also step back and look at these classical aesthetic physiques with awe and respect
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a few examples from vinces list of common errors in bodybuilding
# overtraining (anything over 45 minutes is overtraining)
# bench presses for pecs
# leg presses
# jogging
# cheating exercises
# presses for deltoid
# mixing carbs and protein
# swimming
# side bends
# music in the gym (!)
Vince is a fucktard. Is he dead?
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you're out of your mind if you think Gironda looks like shit-------------------he's got a physique even the Greek sculptors would be jealous of
he was like Arnold in the way he shaped his body as a piece of art, finely crafting each line, symmetry and balance
his ideal physique or vision may not be what some prefer today----but in the sense of an actual attainable physique in natural terms I think his is pretty ideal -----and I also think if beginner bb's and kids looked up to his physique instead of someone like Ruhl's for example, the stigma of bbing wouldn't be as negative as it is today.
with that said though I do also appreciate the freaks of the sport----I like seeing the extremes of human development---but unlike some who appreciate the freaks I can also step back and look at these classical aesthetic physiques with awe and respect
i dont like the way he looks. legs looks like on an old lady.
upper body is allright but not as good as he seemed to think.
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i dont like the way he looks. legs looks like on an old lady.
upper body is allright but not as good as he seemed to think.
Even though I respect his vision and his intensity
I dont agree with some of his training methods--------especially the squat arguement
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Even though I respect his vision and his intensity
I dont agree with some of his training methods--------especially the squat arguement
Only the squat arguement hmm? ???
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I remember walkin into vince's gym 20 yrs ago in studio city Ca. No music, no walkmans allowed. All hardcore with very very old equipment. He believed in the atkins type of diet. Don't know what much else, I went in, and was a skinny rock and roll style back then. I got scared and never went back.
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another gem from vince
"do not drink water during workouts or with meals. water is a weightgaining substance"
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another gem from vince
"do not drink water during workouts or with meals. water is a weightgaining substance"
yeah, right, water...sure...who needs it anyways...
it's only a life-necessity...guys a genious ::)
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He was all about conditioning. He was the 'originator' & had visions about how things were supposed to be before anyone was doing it.
Basically called Arnold a Fat Austrian Boy & Arnold's jaw dropped.
Arnold wanted to be trained by Vince.....Vince agreed....Arnold was reborn.
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another gem from vince
"do not drink water during workouts or with meals. water is a weightgaining substance"
Funny I have every one of his books and booklets and I've NEVER seen that quote. My guess is that you made it up. Vince had a lot of good concepts that other people took and didn't credit him for. He had people doing crunches in the 50's before anyone else, low pulley rows before anyone else.
He had a workout that that he called 10 sets of 10 that Bill Phillips printed as German Volume training.
There was much more.
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The bright ones already know that the best theorists like Gironda and Jones were right most of the time. Pick and choose from their lists. Agreed on barbell benches being unnecessary, disagree on squats, agree on most of the others.
Weider really looked up to him as the master, still does which is why Arnold was sent to him for a reality check and why Vince's equipment was installed in Weider's home gym.
Vince was a personal trainer in LA to hollywood actors getting them in shape decades before it became common.
No water allowed sounds like more internet made-up crap. If it was mentioned it was probably something about not drinking too much water.
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Funny I have every one of his books and booklets and I've NEVER seen that quote. My guess is that you made it up. Vince had a lot of good concepts that other people took and didn't credit him for. He had people doing crunches in the 50's before anyone else, low pulley rows before anyone else.
He had a workout that that he called 10 sets of 10 that Bill Phillips printed as German Volume training.
There was much more.
it's from the 334 page book vince gironda legend & myth. whether it's a genuine quote i dont know.
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guy seem to have legend status around certain parts... but i dont think he looks that good at all
what gives?
that pic is from about 1960, and Vince was already in his 40s. back then, bodybuilding was a very young man's sport. 30 was considered past your peak, 35 was very old.
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that pic is from about 1960, and Vince was already in his 40s. back then, bodybuilding was a very young man's sport. 30 was considered past your peak, 35 was very old.
thats the only pic that comes up most of the time
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it's from the 334 page book vince gironda legend & myth. whether it's a genuine quote i dont know.
I know he said don't drink water from a water fountain while training because you end up gulping it and getting bloated while training. He felt it was better to sip the water from a jug or glass. I think whoever wrote that in the book was not quoting directly.
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"Another thing I would like to stress in that the fact that any exercise
course is dependent on supplements used. I have never personally trained any pro who
did not depend on supplements to balance his nutritional intake. It is impossible to get
maximum results without supplements."
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"Another aspect, of which no one is aware, is that abdominal work should never be
done by a beginner in weight training. Any abdominal exercises involve the Solar
Plexus. This area sometimes known as the “second brain”. Here can be found a great
network of nerves and blood vessels that join and congregate. Abdominal work is such a
shock to the nervous system that I could take any undeveloped beginner in my gym and
add abdominal work and it would stop all muscular gains."
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"The breath that
you use to talk to someone in the gym is also the breath you could have used to do your
next set." :D
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I only remember Vince Gironda when he used to have a Q & A column in Musclemag back in the day. All his answers to questions from fans were just bad-tempered ramblings. I used to think he was an old coot who was angry and bitter.
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he actually recommends front squats in his q&a
"Front Squats – Heels 18” apart – Toes out as wide as you can get them. At all times must
the hips remain under the shoulders (Never Back) – Use the 1 and ˝ style for all 8 reps
and sets. Full rep and ˝ rep constitutes one rep."
"I would advise leg work 3 days
a week. Harder leg work makes everything else respond 15 to 20% better."
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I only remember Vince Gironda when he used to have a Q & A column in Musclemag back in the day. All his answers to questions from fans were just bad-tempered ramblings. I used to think he was an old coot who was angry and bitter.
He was bitter because he was broke and destitute in his final days. He only had around 27 dollars in his bank account when he died.
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He was bitter because he was broke and destitute in his final days. He only had around 27 dollars in his bank account when he died.
and where did you get that info? he was onry long before he closed his gym in November 1995 and died October 1997. kind of hard to be destitute when you owned prime Los Angeles real estate in the 1990s that you probably bought in the 1940s.
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and where did you get that info? he was onry long before he closed his gym in November 1995 and died October 1997. kind of hard to be destitute when you owned prime Los Angeles real estate in the 1990s that you probably bought in the 1940s.
Actually Tim I remember reading that it ws worse than Vince stated. I read that his account was overdrawn. I think that was published in Muscle Mag. I know people very well who were close to him. He was not a great businessman. Remember there was a Nautilus-Aerobics Plus almost across the street that virtually put him out of business, few of the bodybuilders went to him anymore and neither did the Hollywood people. Are we sure that he owned the property or was it leased/rented?
The who started Icarian equipment company used to work for Vince and patterned much of thier original designs after Vinces equipment. A few of the supplement companies promoted his nutrition principles (Blair/Beverly Nutrition) but Vince never endorsed them AND probably never got any financial benefits that would have come from such endorsements.
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He was bitter because he was broke and destitute in his final days. He only had around 27 dollars in his bank account when he died.
26 more than me then.
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He was bitter because he was broke and destitute in his final days. He only had around 27 dollars in his bank account when he died.
having a lot of money when you die is really important.
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Yep. Ain't no pockets in shrouds.
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I don't know that he was particularly bitter when he died; he never cared much about money. Cantankerous in typical Bronx NY fashion, that could be endearing:
Schwarzenegger walks in to Vince's Gym for the first time, shortly after arriving in America:
"I am Arnold Schwarzenegger, Mr. Universe"
Gironda: "You're nothing but a fat f***"
If he cared about money he could've cashed in during the 70s-90s the way Gold's did.
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He was controversial but respected-------I remember most about how drinking water from a water fountain causes you to swallow too much air and bloat you, also how abdominal work is a shock to the central nervous system and will stunt your progress, and how full squats will widen your hips.
I do recall Clint Eastwood and Robert Blake (Baretta) among some of his hollywood stars that he trained.
I wish I had his midsection !!!
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I only remember Vince Gironda when he used to have a Q & A column in Musclemag back in the day. All his answers to questions from fans were just bad-tempered ramblings. I used to think he was an old coot who was angry and bitter.
Dude, you are spot on. I've got loads of old Muclemags from the early 80's and some of the answers to the questions are just flat out rude, but priceless. There's some where guys are writing legit questions and he just tells them to stop wasting his time by writing stupid letters.
There was one where a guy asked what kind of routine he recommended in order to impress the chicks. Vince responded by saying that girls are impressed by money not muscles, you need to build up your wallet. I could be wrong but I think Vince also trained Carl Weathers for the Rocky movies.
SERGIO!!!!
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Gironda said that everywhere he went people wanted information. That was true. He was a pioneer of training methods and had a bodybuilding gym long before they became popular. He achieved a lot in his life and he certainly influenced a lot of people through his gym, articles and courses. He was one of the first to sell T-shirts with Gym logos on them.
Vince was afraid of no one. He also exaggerated points to make people sit up and think. Arnold trained upper body at Vince's Gym when he arrived in LA but went to Golds to train legs. Arnold quickly got the message about definition after Frank Zane beat him in a contest in Florida in 1968. If was after that defeat that Arnold came to California. It was October 1968.
Vince had definition long before it was popular. They called him the Iron guru and I suppose he was the first bodybuilding guru we had.
Here is what happened to me when I first met him in 1968. I told him I had some photos of Arnold in the car. He told me to fetch them. When I did a few blokes came to look at them. Vince shouted out, "Hey, here's a guy who has photos of guys in his wallet!" That must have pleased Gironda because he repeated it louder a second time! I instantly disliked the man. Years later I called him to ask if it was okay to call my gym Vince's Gym in Sydney. He didn't mind.
I don't think Gironda was flexible enough in business. He kept the same equipment and business plan and was eclipsed by the fitness revolution in the 1980s. He did install a women's section upstairs but it was too little too late. It remains to be seen if a specialist gym like he had could survive today. Maybe, maybe not.
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thanks to bluto for posting these BS quotes.
lol, i cannot believe somebody actually wrote that.
2007 version: "The breath you use to rap along your cell phone gangsta rap ring tone and then talk on the phone could be used on your next set. this would also be less annoying to the others in the gym."
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I remember another great answer in his MM magazine column:
Q: Hey Vince, how can I lost around 20 ponds in around a week?
A: Cut your head
Priceless, he was a genious
stupid i would call it. making fun of people who ask serious questions is not funny. ;) ;D ;D ;D ;D
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I instantly disliked the man.
Haha! Is there anyone you DID like Vinnie?
I could be wrong but I think Vince also trained Carl Weathers for the Rocky movies.
I heard they worked together for Predator. Lotta juice for that 2 second biceps shot.
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yeah, right, water...sure...who needs it anyways...
it's only a life-necessity...guys a genious ::)
This is only half truth. Vince believed that you should cease to drink water 30 minutes prior to a meal because it hindered digestion. He believe a half an hour after the meal you should drink a glass water though.
As for the squat Vince believed that certain people with very narrow waists (ala Melvin Anthony) could get a way with squatting while others would just develop too much glute and not enough quad. Vince was a big advocate of squatting for women.
If anyone in here is really interested in learning the whole truth about Vince shoot me a PM. I consult regularly with one of his students and his former right hand man Ron Kosloff.
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This is only half truth. Vince believed that you should cease to drink water 30 minutes prior to a meal because it hindered digestion. He believe a half an hour after the meal you should drink a glass water though.
As for the squat Vince believed that certain people with very narrow waists (ala Melvin Anthony) could get a way with squatting while others would just develop too much glute and not enough quad. Vince was a big advocate of squatting for women.
If anyone in here is really interested in learning the whole truth about Vince shoot me a PM. I consult regularly with one of his students and his former right hand man Ron Kosloff.
Why not post it here?
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Why not post it here?
Because it's really elaborate stuff. I don't want to bore people to tears who aren't interested in reading it. I'd even be willing to make some copies of some of Vince's courses for people if they are wanted.
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When Arnold came here in 1968 Joe Weider sent Arnold to Gironda to be trained. That speaks volumes right there.
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He was bitter because he was broke and destitute in his final days. He only had around 27 dollars in his bank account when he died.
Vince never cared about money. He cared about his gym. He wasn't bitter. He just never suffered fools lightly. So I guess he wouldn't like being around you.
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Because it's really elaborate stuff. I don't want to bore people to tears who aren't interested in reading it. I'd even be willing to make some copies of some of Vince's courses for people if they are wanted.
BS. Post them in the history section. Who's not interested doesn't need to read it.
http://www.getbig.com/boards/index.php?board=20.0
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Just post whatever you want about Gironda in this thread and we'll keep it going...
I'll post some quotes etc if I find something interesting or funny :)
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I don't know too much about Gironda other than a lot of old BB greats trained at his gym, and his 8x8 training method that I'm currently using for just about all of my lifts except for deadlifts and stiff legged deadlifts. Personally, knowing what little I do know about him, especially from some of what you guys contributed, he seems to have been years before his time in terms of certain training aspects.
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Gironda was cool. Strange sometimes but cool. Too bad his style alienated so many people... he could have been much more popular.
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I remember another great answer in his MM magazine column:
Q: Hey Vince, how can I lost around 20 ponds in around a week?
A: Cut your head
Priceless, he was a genious
He would've been great on getbig.
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he looks incredible. terriffic lines. complestle flawless!!!!!
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Vince was an epic character. The man who got me started bodybuilding was close friends with Vince for decades. Said that the stuff you read about him is TAME compared to how he was in person, just a non-stop ball of intensity and laughs 24/7. Imagine the Squadfather on a $hitload of speed, that's how I imagine Vince from the stories I've heard 8)
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When Arnold came here in 1968 Joe Weider sent Arnold to Gironda to be trained. That speaks volumes right there.
I thought Joe was the trainer of champions ;).
SERGIO!!!!
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I thought Joe was the trainer of champions ;).
Since 1936! ;)
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Everybody assumes that when he came to America he trained under the trainer of champions, Joe Weider. Nothing could be further from the truth. Weider just promoted Arnold and made a lot of money. Actually they both promoted each other and made a lot of money. Arnold's German industrial sponsor sent him to Vince. Of course, Arnold had a pretty big ego, although he was not that good when he started, being rather on the fat, fleshy side. He walked into Vince's Gym (John Balik, the editor of IRONMAN can substantiate this story as he was standing right there) and said, "I'm Arnold Schwarzennegger from Austria and I'm Mr. So and So." Vince looked up at him through his granny glasses and responded, "You're nothing but a fat you-know-what." For two years, Arnold spent time at Vince's Gym Then, after Joe Weider signed him, he went on to become a movie star and multi-millionaire. Years later, Arnold told Balik that was the best thing that ever happened to him because he thought he was king of the world and Vince brought him right down, shattered his ego. That about sums up Vince and says a lot for Arnold.
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Somehow I don't think Vince shattered Arnold's ego. If that had been the case Arnold would be a completely different person today.
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Somehow I don't think Vince shattered Arnold's ego. If that had been the case Arnold would be a completely different person today.
Interesting your strange interpretation. A reality check isn't synonymous with shattering an ego.
I applaud your defensiveness on Arnold, however. ::)
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I`m currently doing 8 x 8 training and it kicks ass................makin g steady gains!
Vince was the man,way ahead of his time.
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8x8 to failure every set?
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8x8 to failure every set?
Come on man, you're on the training board..with that type of thing you stop short of failure on the first few or more sets.
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Come on man, you're on the training board..with that type of thing you stop short of failure on the first few or more sets.
so what would that make it, failure on 4-6 sets
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so what would that make it, failure on 4-6 sets
As long as failure's reached somewhere in the last 3-4 sets otherwise add weight. With something like this the number of sets of pumping is supposed to be part of what creates growth.
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As long as failure's reached somewhere in the last 3-4 sets otherwise add weight.
that's a lot of failure, far too much for me
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that's a lot of failure, far too much for me
Now i remember you're not for that.
I can't see the muscle growing to full potential without going to failure; without failure there's nothing to force it to fully adapt. Gironda thought same otherwise he could've suggested the same routine without working as hard.
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Now i remember you're not for that.
I can't see the muscle growing to full potential without going to failure; without failure there's nothing to force it to fully adapt. Gironda thought same otherwise he could've suggested the same routine without working as hard.
i go for failure but not for 3-4 sets per exercise that would be a lot of failure in one day and most surely prevent me from training as often as i currently do.
but opinions vary.
not sure how many pros go to failure that often. not to mention other athletes in other sports where going to failure just isnt smart since they train so much and so often, yet they have great development.
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i go for failure but not for 3-4 sets per exercise that would be a lot of failure in one day and most surely prevent me from training as often as i currently do.
but opinions vary.
not sure how many pros go to failure that often. not to mention other athletes in other sports where going to failure just isnt smart since they train so much and so often, yet they have great development.
Frequency of failure's more debatable and arguably not as important because there are diminishing returns each time. It's just a different effect & approach worth trying to see if it makes a difference, because the pumping sets arguably have an effect on tissue development.
You can do the same routine and go to failure less by doing 6 x 6 using a weight that gets you to failure on the last set or two.
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This is where information from Vince gets a little contradictory in my opinion.
Vince stated in several publications (articles, his book and I had a cassette tape of him saying it) that he was dead set against training to failure. He felt it lead to adrenal gland shut-down and that he had observed Olympic Weightlifters who always trained short of failure. The 8X8 program was designed to be done at 60-80% of capability and was to be done with less and less rest between sets starting with 60 seconds and eventually getting down to 15 seconds between sets.
By the way I interviewed Jim Morris recently (1973 AAU Mr. America) who trained with Bill Pearl and also got a lot of advice from Vince. He said that Pearl was also against training to failure.
Vince also always talked about doing only one exercise per body-part on the
6X6 or the 8X8 system.
Now here comes the contradiction: Vince always bragged about training Larry Scott and Mohamed Makkawy. He had both these guys doing 6X6 or 8X8 with multiple exercises per body-part and he stated more that once that “Larry took every set as far as he could go with it”. That sounded like failure to me.
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Vince always bragged about training Larry Scott and Mohamed Makkawy. He had both these guys doing 6X6 or 8X8 with multiple exercises per body-part and he stated more that once that “Larry took every set as far as he could go with it”. That sounded like failure to me.
Larry went into negative failure using partials. No doubt in my mind this is part of why he got so much of his potential.
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This is where information from Vince gets a little contradictory in my opinion.
Vince stated in several publications (articles, his book and I had a cassette tape of him saying it) that he was dead set against training to failure. He felt it lead to adrenal gland shut-down and that he had observed Olympic Weightlifters who always trained short of failure. The 8X8 program was designed to be done at 60-80% of capability and was to be done with less and less rest between sets starting with 60 seconds and eventually getting down to 15 seconds between sets.
By the way I interviewed Jim Morris recently (1973 AAU Mr. America) who trained with Bill Pearl and also got a lot of advice from Vince. He said that Pearl was also against training to failure.
Vince also always talked about doing only one exercise per body-part on the
6X6 or the 8X8 system.
Now here comes the contradiction: Vince always bragged about training Larry Scott and Mohamed Makkawy. He had both these guys doing 6X6 or 8X8 with multiple exercises per body-part and he stated more that once that “Larry took every set as far as he could go with it”. That sounded like failure to me.
I can not remember eaxctly how Vince worded it, but he had said before in the mags that Larry and Mohamed were "advanced" trainers and could handle doing more sets. I am sure that Vince knew that both these guys were using and so he knew that they could handle the extra sets and to failure training. A lot of what Vince recmmended was for the average guy or hard gainer that did not use drugs.
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A lot of what Vince recmmended was for the average guy or hard gainer that did not use drugs.
Popular unproven theory that drugs completely change every training dynamic that i don't believe. They help with certain general apects like recovery and endurance for example but not everything else.
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I can not remember eaxctly how Vince worded it, but he had said before in the mags that Larry and Mohamed were "advanced" trainers and could handle doing more sets. I am sure that Vince knew that both these guys were using and so he knew that they could handle the extra sets and to failure training. A lot of what Vince recmmended was for the average guy or hard gainer that did not use drugs.
I use Arnolds Encyclopedia of Bodybuilding routine and lift no more than 225 pounds on the olympic bar though when feeling good i can pull most stacks on the rows and go slightly higher on dumbells for some movements but basically i lift light just to get through the routine it usually takes me up to two and half hours to get through the routine6 days a week with sunday off according to Vince Gironda this is totally the opposite to his routine.
So after training with Vince Arnold comes out with this extreme volume training .A paradox one might say ive been clean for 2 years and still find it works for me.When i was on i still lifted light nothing over 400.I am totally bamboozled by Girondas routine it sounds like Mike Menzters Hit.
Shit with all these gurus i am totally confused with what works and what doesnt.Anyway i have been following Arnold routine for nearly 6 years and had superb results, i am completly dumbfounded how Girondas principles worked on an average Joe though he trained Larry and mohummad with volume style workouts.all i see is the Irony. ???
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I use Arnolds Encyclopedia of Bodybuilding routine and lift no more than 225 pounds on the olympic bar though when feeling good i can pull most stacks on the rows and go slightly higher on dumbells for some movements but basically i lift light just to get through the routine it usually takes me up to two and half hours to get through the routine6 days a week with sunday off according to Vince Gironda this is totally the opposite to his routine.
So after training with Vince Arnold comes out with this extreme volume training .A paradox one might say ive been clean for 2 years and still find it works for me.When i was on i still lifted light nothing over 400.I am totally bamboozled by Girondas routine it sounds like Mike Menzters Hit.
Shit with all these gurus i am totally confused with what works and what doesnt.Anyway i have been following Arnold routine for nearly 6 years and had superb results, i am completly dumbfounded how Girondas principles worked on an average Joe though he trained Larry and mohummad with volume style workouts.all i see is the Irony. ???
You have to understand that Vince changed their routines very very often, usually every three weeks. The High Volume stages were usually around or near pre contest.
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Popular unproven theory that drugs completely change every training dynamic that i don't believe. They help with certain general apects like recovery and endurance for example but not everything else.
I can't agree or disagree since I am not sure what you mean by "training dynamic".
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Vince also always talked about doing only one exercise per body-part on the
6X6 or the 8X8 system.
Now here comes the contradiction: Vince always bragged about training Larry Scott and Mohamed Makkawy. He had both these guys doing 6X6 or 8X8 with multiple exercises per body-part and he stated more that once that “Larry took every set as far as he could go with it”. That sounded like failure to me.
V
Well first Vince didn't advocate those forced reps for just anyone. They were mainly for advanced lifters. You won't find Vince advocating anything like that in his courses until you get up to the end of the Master Series.
Vince is pretty clear with training intensity. He believed that you should hit that 85% everytime you step in the gym but train frequantly as a newby. He talks about his champions being able to go the extra distance and didn't advocate that type of training for his newer clients.
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I can't agree or disagree since I am not sure what you mean by "training dynamic".
Well the facts are with drugs you do not have to eat as well to make gains, You can train more frequantly, and you can get away with doing horribly misguided things in the gym and still make gains.
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Well the facts are with drugs you do not have to eat as well to make gains, You can train more frequantly, and you can get away with doing horribly misguided things in the gym and still make gains.
Yep, drugs build muscle under most types of traning. ;D
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Bluto,Vince advocated 32 sets per bodypart for every bodypart when training 8 x 8 style......personally,I find this too much and am onnly using 2 exxercises of 8 x 8 where Vince wanted you to use 4 exercises.
The object is to use the same weight each set and keep rest periods to 15-30 seconds tops,decreasing rest periods as you get more used to the routine.
I have done this for 3 weeks now, and while training as fast as possible,meaning very short rests between sets,I have added weight to the bar, or a plate or two to the machine I`m using each week so far................the first 3-4 sets are light but act as a warmup/prelude to the tougher sets to come.............failure should only be reached on the last 2-3 sets if at all.
Training fast like this is just another way to increase the intensity of effort instead of just upping poundages and plodding through a slow heavy workout.
The less rest you take,the heavier the weight feels and the body never knows what`s on the bar,it only know heavy or light........ask Milos,I`m sure he`ll agree with me/Vince!! LOL :)
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Bluto,Vince advocated 32 sets per bodypart for every bodypart when training 8 x 8 style......personally,I find this too much and am onnly using 2 exxercises of 8 x 8 where Vince wanted you to use 4 exercises.
The object is to use the same weight each set and keep rest periods to 15-30 seconds tops,decreasing rest periods as you get more used to the routine.
I have done this for 3 weeks now, and while training as fast as possible,meaning very short rests between sets,I have added weight to the bar, or a plate or two to the machine I`m using each week so far................the first 3-4 sets are light but act as a warmup/prelude to the tougher sets to come.............failure should only be reached on the last 2-3 sets if at all.
Training fast like this is just another way to increase the intensity of effort instead of just upping poundages and plodding through a slow heavy workout.
The less rest you take,the heavier the weight feels and the body never knows what`s on the bar,it only know heavy or light........ask Milos,I`m sure he`ll agree with me/Vince!! LOL :)
Training with such short rests is only another variation, not a fixed part of it.
Well the facts are with drugs you do not have to eat as well to make gains, You can train more frequantly, and you can get away with doing horribly misguided things in the gym and still make gains.
Sure, those particular things. As far as maximizing potential, most of the training fundamentals don't change.
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gironda was pretty cool IMO...
he applied the scientific principle where possible in the gym and figured out plenty of stuff before any sports scientists sat down and confirmed it....
eg. the abs are spinal joint flexors and therefore the crunch is the ideal movement not situps.
some of his diet stuff was by the seat of his pants though and I feel he probably attributed certain results to certain variables that were not wholly responsable for said outcomes...
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Vince was a hell of a great guy from my viewpoin. Way ahead of his time in many aspects of bodybuilding. I trained at Vince's in the 60's and got to know him pretty well. He was definitely set against squating and would make comments on that subject while attending bodybuilding contests. He was the kind of guy who would definitely take no bullshit from anyone and that is probably how he viewed Arnold on his first meeting. I wasn't there but I can definitely picture that occurance.
I drive by the old place on Ventura whenever I am working at Universal and remember those good old days when there were no more than five or six competitive bodybuilders whom you could count on to make a contest happen in Southern California.
Almost no one knew of ever heard of the IFBB back then. It was strictly AAU or nothing at all - just a bunch of guys who trained at the local gyms who wanted to get on stage and show their stuff.
Any of your guys recall those days when most of the contests were held at the old Embassy Auditoriun in downtown Los Angeles - usually about two or three in the morning after the olympic lifting trophies were handed out? I still run into some of those old timers at today's NPC/IFBB events and sometimes we get into discussions in the lobby and miss the contest itself. Those discussions are mainly along the lines of "Whatever happened to?". Kind of like a high school reunion for us old farts who have witnessed it from almost the very beginning and respect it for what it is.
Or maybe "for what it was".
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I trained at Vince's in the 60's and got to know him pretty well. He was definitely set against squating and would make comments on that subject while attending bodybuilding contests.
Stunt speak more on this. Some of us have read about his training methods. Give us an idea of some of the training he had you doing.
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Feel free to check out my thread in the History section. It's going to cover all of the bases Vince style.
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"He was definitely set against squating and would make comments on that subject while attending bodybuilding contests. "
you mean he would comment on physiques and say that big ass or big waist or whatever was due to the competitor squatting or something like that?
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Larry Scott gave the best seminar of any of the champs at my gym in 1979. He said Vince Gironda often exaggerated things to make a point. Larry is a smart guy. I doubt Vince Gironda trained him although they would have had plenty of discussions.
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Larry Scott gave the best seminar of any of the champs at my gym in 1979. He said Vince Gironda often exaggerated things to make a point. Larry is a smart guy. I doubt Vince Gironda trained him although they would have had plenty of discussions.
Larry got a lot of ideas on different exercises, techniques etc I watched one of his seminars some interesting stuff
Especially his ways of doing dips, pull ups, barefoot donkey raises etc
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Larry Scott gave the best seminar of any of the champs at my gym in 1979. He said Vince Gironda often exaggerated things to make a point. Larry is a smart guy. I doubt Vince Gironda trained him although they would have had plenty of discussions.
Larry himself will tell you that when he was in Vince's gym or he was with Vince he did everything Vince said to the letter. That why Vince considered him his best student ever.
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Somehow I don't think Vince shattered Arnold's ego. If that had been the case Arnold would be a completely different person today.
Dude, I am sure Vince burst his bubble when he said that. I doubt Arnold was on the verge of suicide. Most people recover from getting their balls broken without major damage. ;)
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Stunt speak more on this. Some of us have read about his training methods. Give us an idea of some of the training he had you doing.
Stunt got back to my PM saying he would like to but is bound by restrictions based on a forthcoming book.
Lots on the training board:
http://www.getbig.com/boards/index.php?topic=158432.0
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I was Makkawy's training partner during his heyday. He would go to Cali and train at Vinces, and then return to Toronto with crazy routines to do. Example chins 10sets x 10 reps followed by dips 10sets x 10 reps. Makkawy would diet on steak, water, and dessicated liver tabs- and become so irritable he was just plain nasty to be around. What is unknown is that we also trained Gladys Portugues for her one Olympia, and Vince also designed her routines to get that X taper he felt was the key to bodybuilding. Vince actually travelled to Montreal for the show, something he never did- wearing a huge turtleneck and a buckskin jacket with fringes he was quite a sight! A true pioneer who beat to a different drum, and was way ahead of his time. RIP Vince.
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I was Makkawy's training partner during his heyday. He would go to Cali and train at Vinces, and then return to Toronto with crazy routines to do. Example chins 10sets x 10 reps followed by dips 10sets x 10 reps. Makkawy would diet on steak, water, and dessicated liver tabs- and become so irritable he was just plain nasty to be around. What is unknown is that we also trained Gladys Portugues for her one Olympia, and Vince also designed her routines to get that X taper he felt was the key to bodybuilding. Vince actually travelled to Montreal for the show, something he never did- wearing a huge turtleneck and a buckskin jacket with fringes he was quite a sight! A true pioneer who beat to a different drum, and was way ahead of his time. RIP Vince.
It was known. I'd have loved to spot her on stiff lagged deadlifts. I worked in with her once at Gold's Venice on Hack Squats. Man she was hot! Everything you just posted was written about in the magazines including the turtleneck and buckskin jacket.
So did you hang with Makkawy on those routines and did you progress on them? Vince pushed him as being natural... was he?
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It was known. I'd have loved to spot her on stiff lagged deadlifts. I worked in with her once at Gold's Venice on Hack Squats. Man she was hot! Everything you just posted was written about in the magazines including the turtleneck and buckskin jacket.
So did you hang with Makkawy on those routines and did you progress on them? Vince pushed him as being natural... was he?
Makkawy natural?....why are we still believing the natural shit...I thought GH15 laid out the limits for natural developement pretty clear.
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First of all, I don’t believe GH15 is anything more than a troll, Gimmick. Second, I didn’t say I believed Makkaway was natural… that’s why I asked Old-Skool.
Notice my question was directed at him and not you? Funny what happens when you actually read.
If he really trained with Makkawy, he may have some awesome insight.
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First of all, I don’t believe GH15 is anything more than a troll, Gimmick. Second, I didn’t say I believed Makkaway was natural… that’s why I asked Old-Skool.
Notice my question was directed at him and not you? Funny what happens when you actually read.
If he really trained with Makkawy, he may have some awesome insight.
u believe he is a troll?....DO U UNDERSTAND U CANT GET THAT BIG AND CUT WITHOUT HORMONES STEROIDS AND FATBURNERS AND DIURETICS??????????? Some of u guys just baffle me.
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getting as big as an average natural trainer is impossible without 1600+ mg a week ;D
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u believe he is a troll?....DO U UNDERSTAND U CANT GET THAT BIG AND CUT WITHOUT HORMONES STEROIDS AND FATBURNERS AND DIURETICS??????????? Some of u guys just baffle me.
Again you cannot read. The question was not directed at you. When I think you have something valuable to offer me in terms of knowledge, I'll ask. Don't hold your breath.
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Bluto,Vince advocated 32 sets per bodypart for every bodypart when training 8 x 8 style......
I actually run the main Gironda site -- www.VinceGironda.com -- and this is a misconception that comes up time and time again. It's understandable, though.
It's probably the result of what was written in Gironda's book with Robert Kennedy, "The Wild Physique." In there it describes Makkaway's pre-Olympia training routine and the multiple exercises per bodypart of 8x8. This was excessive, and not for everyone. Gironda was about minimizing the workouts, actually, and would more than likely have a guy do 8x8 with one exercise, and that's it.
If you read most of Gironda's material, he advocated far less volume, but more than the pure HIT devotees.
DS
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shit i read that makkaway was doing the same muscle for 24 sets THREE times a day then giving it 3 days off the last few months before a show.
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shit i read that makkaway was doing the same muscle for 24 sets THREE times a day then giving it 3 days off the last few months before a show.
It's possible he was. Gironda had people training multiple times per day for a period. BUT, this was a specialized routine for someone like Makkaway, not for the rest.
DS
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It's possible he was. Gironda had people training multiple times per day for a period. BUT, this was a specialized routine for someone like Makkaway, not for the rest.
DS
dbol is a hell of a drug!
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Let's face it, Gironda was smarter than most and did things that he learned through experience. He pioneered the cutup look as being important and made exercise selection and execution important. His gym is proof that basic, effective equipment can build great physiques. He was always asked for information wherever he went.
He made some statements that are not literally true. For example, that bodybuilding is mostly nutrition. What he really meant was without proper nutrition you won't grow rapidly or you might put on too much fat.
I doubt that many here would have survived a discussion with him. That was the kind of guy he was. He knew what he was talking about. I had to laugh at how so many photos in his gym included him. Ah, that place was a monument to Gironda. Then again, I never saw Joe Gold walk past mirrors without looking at himself. Gym owners are not your average blokes! :)
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nice to kind of include yourself in that category
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nice to kind of include yourself in that category
Vince is not what we would call modest. LOL
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Gironda did beleive in overload principle, followed by huge rest for bringing up lagging bodyparts. I know Makkawy did train back three times a day, and sometimes multiple days in a row at points. A Gironda favorite was putting the legs of either end of a flat bench on wooden blocks...then we would lie chest down on the bench with our legs bent and feet crossed in the air.....then we would do dumbell rows accentuating the contracton at the top where the dumbells would almost hit the bench. Remember we are talking the early 1980's and equipment was not as specialized as today. We often improvised with boxes, stairs, pieces of wood etc. trying to change the angle of an exercise to hit the muscle where you wanted to. Makkawy had a bad lower back from years of olympic lifting in Egypt as a youth, and therefore could not squat or bent over row in the traditional way. He often cursed to me about not being able to squat (behind Vinces back of course) as he felt it would help his lagging glute/hamstring. We did endless sissy squats (with pelvic thrust motion a the top of the movement) and hacks.