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Getbig Misc Discussion Boards => Pet Board => Topic started by: Princess L on September 13, 2007, 07:23:28 AM
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Just got a call from the vet. Scout was in for a check up yesterday.
His fecal sample came back positive for roundworms and hookworms :'(
They want him on Drontal Plus immediately.
Shall I proceed? What other questions do I need to ask? Do I need to be as concerned and upset as I am at the moment?
(http://a1272.g.akamai.net/7/1272/1121/20030307163352/www.drsfostersmith.com/images/products/large/p_8578_8990D.jpg)
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Unless he has a huge load of worms that are causing problems I would not be concerned. I am not saying don't treat him for them, I just mean calm down. :)
DE (diatomaceous earth) can be used to get rid of both hook and roundworms. It is a slow process though. The Drontal would be faster. Drontal does appear to be relatively safe, so if he is healthy (healthy despite the worms ;)) then you could use the Drontal.
I personally would go the DE route because my dogs having a few worms that were not causing problems wouldn't concern me. When I got Addie she had worms but she also had chest and head infections and was underweight so I went the poison/chemical deworming with her to get them out so she could have one less thing for her body to deal with. But in my list of *bad things to use" wormers are lower on the list.
If he tests positive again later on after Drontal then you might want to consider DE added to his food and also put on your lawn to get rid of them there.
He'll be fine. :)
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I can get Drontal at a vet (the guy I don't like) whose office is down the road. My vet is going to fax over the script. It's not Drontal Plus, but that should be ok since he doesn't have whipworms. I'm going to pick it up shortly, but want your thoughts before I dispense it. THANK YOU!
Tell me I can stop freaking out :o :'( :-[ okay ???
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I just mean calm down. :)
He'll be fine. :)
:-*
Thank you!
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I can get Drontal at a vet (the guy I don't like) whose office is down the road. My vet is going to fax over the script. It's not Drontal Plus, but that should be ok since he doesn't have whipworms. I'm going to pick it up shortly, but want your thoughts before I dispense it. THANK YOU!
Tell me I can stop freaking out :o :'( :-[ okay ???
You can stop freaking!!! Or I will use my bat to make you stop!! ;D
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poor puppy. :-\
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Kick those worms Scoutmaster... Chaos and Chucka kicked theirs.. They go back in for second treatment Saturday.. You can do it Scoutster..
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Kick those worms Scoutmaster... Chaos and Chucka kicked theirs.. They go back in for second treatment Saturday.. You can do it Scoutster..
They didn't happen to get their current ailment after their first treatment did they? :-\
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stop feeding him worms in the back yard
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They didn't happen to get their current ailment after their first treatment did they? :-\
No they hadn't ever been dewormed.. The two guys we bought them from coughed up to have lying to us about what the dogs had and what they hadn't. Just makes me glad that we got the dogs.. I am sure that anyone else or most people would've just put them to sleep instead of doing everything we did.. I swear some people don't deserve dogs and Mr. Backyard breeder that we got Chaos from got an earful from me.
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No they hadn't ever been dewormed.. The two guys we bought them from coughed up to have lying to us about what the dogs had and what they hadn't. Just makes me glad that we got the dogs.. I am sure that anyone else or most people would've just put them to sleep instead of doing everything we did.. I swear some people don't deserve dogs and Mr. Backyard breeder that we got Chaos from got an earful from me.
While I feel that not vaccinating or giving chemicals/poisons is a good thing, I do not find it acceptable to tell someone you did it when you didn't. >:( That is taking the choice away from the person. Same as doing it and not telling the person that you did it. That was the case with Emmett. He was NOT supposed to get vac'd and they vac'd him 3 times and he ended up tearing his tendon at 4 months of age from being overvaccinated.
Did they both test positive for worms? If yes and they are not having a problem from them, I would consider holding off on the deworming til they are fine.
If they haven't been tested then don't deworm them unless they test positive. Don't give chemicals or poisons that are not necessary.
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Get well soon Scout!
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Unless he has a huge load of worms that are causing problems I would not be concerned. I am not saying don't treat him for them, I just mean calm down. :)
DE (diatomaceous earth) can be used to get rid of both hook and roundworms. It is a slow process though. The Drontal would be faster. Drontal does appear to be relatively safe, so if he is healthy (healthy despite the worms ;)) then you could use the Drontal.
I personally would go the DE route because my dogs having a few worms that were not causing problems wouldn't concern me. When I got Addie she had worms but she also had chest and head infections and was underweight so I went the poison/chemical deworming with her to get them out so she could have one less thing for her body to deal with. But in my list of *bad things to use" wormers are lower on the list.
If he tests positive again later on after Drontal then you might want to consider DE added to his food and also put on your lawn to get rid of them there.
He'll be fine. :)
I WOULD NOT use Diatomaceous earth. There is absolutely no proven effectiveness of this "homeopathic" treatment. As a matter of fact it can severely injure your pet. This is one of those internet things that if you think about it, makes absolutey no sense what so ever on how its supposed to work.
Diatomaceous earth is basically a sand created from the shells of diatoms---small crustateons. These shells can be increadibly sharp, leading to micro lacerations within the GI tract, which if you consider a heavily parasitized animal, can make things much much worse. I've heard two different reports on how this is "Supposed" to work. one is that it literally cuts up the parasites---now think about that you are feeding a substance sharp enough to cut up parasites in the intestine, but not so sharp it won't hurt your dog? Doesn't make sense. The other is it irritates the parasites, causing them to let go and they leave the dog. That falls under the same "UH?" logic. As far as I'm concerned the only thing Diatomaceous earth is good far is certian types of aquarium filters and I'd like to see it removed from the shelves for everything else. Its a waste of money with a potential negative outcome.
Now the question is do you treat or do you not. There are two mindsets with parasites in domestic animals. First is treat everything--these animals are domestic and they do not have a "natural" parasite burden. The second is low levels don't mean much. In all honesty, in an adult dog, if I only saw one roundworm egg on a fecal exam, I'd record it and probably consider asking for a repeat fecal, however it really, really depends on the household. The problem comes with what is "low levels" and the risk of human disease. Just because the dog has it and is fine, doesn't mean that the human won't get it and not have a problem. Thats why many veterinarians push for frequent deworming of animals. To prevent human infection.
Both roundworms (toxacara spp) and Hookworms (ancyclostoma) can cause human disease. Roundworms cause Visceral larval migrans (which can lead to blindness, deafness, brain damage, organ failure etc) and hookworms cause cutaneous larval migrans. This becomes a very, very important consideration with some households because of the humans in that house---ie someone who is immunocompromised or someone who is old or a house with young children---we all know the potential for a child to put dog poop in their mouth---it happens and it happens frequently.
Not only that, hookworms are one of those "perpetuating" parasite infestations. Almost all dogs have roundworms at some point in their lives--the worms are encysted in the mothers body and hormones associatd with pregnancy cause the eggs to be shed out through the milk. This means that virtually all puppies will have roundworms of some species. Hookworms on the other hand are acquired after birth through the contact with contaminated feces or soil with feces containing larva (see cutaneous larval migrans again). Hookworm ova shed in the feces of the dog can then reinfect the dogs increasing their worm burden. This usually cumulates in a dog with a heavy parasite burden who breaks wtih horrific bloody diarrhea secondary to the parasites and their effects on the intestine. I have seen dogs die because of hookworms---severe, severe hookworms.
I don't know the specifics of your dog, but its not unreasonable to consider deworming them and then either entering a check/redeworm schedule or using a once per month heartworm preventative which also prevents round and hook worm infestations. Drontal is a safe drug in my opinion. I've administered it to hundreds and probably thousands of animals and not one time have I ever experienced what I'd consider a drug reaction. Unfortunately, in its safety and effectiveness, its also not that cheap. Just remember, that you can clear the infestation now, but with hook worms, your dogs can easily become reinfested due to yard contamination.
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While I feel that not vaccinating or giving chemicals/poisons is a good thing, I do not find it acceptable to tell someone you did it when you didn't. >:( That is taking the choice away from the person. Same as doing it and not telling the person that you did it. That was the case with Emmett. He was NOT supposed to get vac'd and they vac'd him 3 times and he ended up tearing his tendon at 4 months of age from being overvaccinated.
Did they both test positive for worms? If yes and they are not having a problem from them, I would consider holding off on the deworming til they are fine.
If they haven't been tested then don't deworm them unless they test positive. Don't give chemicals or poisons that are not necessary.
Flower, I'm sorry but how on earth can you equate a tendon injury with vaccinations? Thats so far fetched its almost a head shaker. Which tendon was it?
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I don't know the specifics of your dog, but its not unreasonable to consider deworming them and then either entering a check/redeworm schedule or using a once per month heartworm preventative which also prevents round and hook worm infestations. Drontal is a safe drug in my opinion. I've administered it to hundreds and probably thousands of animals and not one time have I ever experienced what I'd consider a drug reaction. Unfortunately, in its safety and effectiveness, its also not that cheap. Just remember, that you can clear the infestation now, but with hook worms, your dogs can easily become reinfested due to yard contamination.
*sigh*
That's just great :-\ ::)
Looks like I may have to go the Heartgard route. I thought I would be able to get away with not doing it. Shame on me, he hasn't been on it since....about April. I put him back on yesterday (before the fecal result) and intend to run it at least til November ~ December and then seasonally.... then again :-\ maybe that's not a good idea. I've got those damn welfare cats running around (and Scout finds their poop sometimes), not to mention other wild critters. There's no getting around it I guess since we live on several acres. Scout also attends doggy daycare once a week.
Thanks everyone for the get well wishes.
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Flower, I'm sorry but how on earth can you equate a tendon injury with vaccinations? Thats so far fetched its almost a head shaker. Which tendon was it?
the distemper vaccine has been linked to joint problems. Considering he was vaccinated 3 times by the time he was 8weeks of age (over vaccination in anyone's book!!) I link it to that. Can I prove it? No. Do I believe it, yes I do, 100%. It was a tendon in one of his rear legs.
I think it is pretty far fetched to think that injecting substances that have an affect on the immune system could never cause harm. ::) And in Emmett's case that big of an assault in a short period of time is almost sure to cause problems. Others in his litters had other problems that I was aware of. What actually has happened to them or what else has showed up over the years I don't know. I had a falling out with his "breeders" over what they did to Emmett that was pretty stupid anyway you look at it, and the fact that he was not supposed to get ANY VACCINATIONS makes it an even bigger pisser as far as I am concerned. He didn't have to go through what he went through, and the lessened quality of life that gets more apparent as he gets older and that leg gets more unstable and I can tell does bother him at times, not to mention the money I spent to have his knee fixed and the money I spend on joint sups to try and keep him mobile and and pain free as I can for as long as I can.
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I WOULD NOT use Diatomaceous earth. There is absolutely no proven effectiveness of this "homeopathic" treatment. As a matter of fact it can severely injure your pet. This is one of those internet things that if you think about it, makes absolutey no sense what so ever on how its supposed to work.
Plenty of people have gotten rid of worms using it. I did say it can be a long process though and sometimes just worming is the way to go. I mentioned using DE in the yard which can be used VERY safely.
Kind of ironic that putting chemicals and poisons on or in your pets is not considered harmful though. ::)
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*sigh*
That's just great :-\ ::)
Looks like I may have to go the Heartgard route. I thought I would be able to get away with not doing it. Shame on me, he hasn't been on it since....about April. I put him back on yesterday (before the fecal result) and intend to run it at least til November ~ December and then seasonally.... then again :-\ maybe that's not a good idea. I've got those damn welfare cats running around (and Scout finds their poop sometimes), not to mention other wild critters. There's no getting around it I guess since we live on several acres. Scout also attends doggy daycare once a week.
Thanks everyone for the get well wishes.
I realize I am in the minority here ::), but I have never wormed anyone but Addie that one time, never give heartworm or any preventatives and really am not that concerned about them.
If you feel you MUST use heartgard please remember it can be given every 45 days (I have posted studies on that) and lessen the poisons he gets.
I see no reason to give that year round for POSSIBLE worms. It's that scare tactic thinking that is making our pets less healthy! Chemicals and posions are pushed on possibilities instead of treating (especially for worms) if and when they become a problem.
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one is that it literally cuts up the parasites---now think about that you are feeding a substance sharp enough to cut up parasites in the intestine, but not so sharp it won't hurt your dog? Doesn't make sense. The other is it irritates the parasites, causing them to let go and they leave the dog. That falls under the same "UH?" logic. As far as I'm concerned the only thing Diatomaceous earth is good far is certian types of aquarium filters and I'd like to see it removed from the shelves for everything else. Its a waste of money with a potential negative outcome.
it's all about the size of the "critter" it is the irritant to.
But hey, some of what you push is based on some fallacies so we can all be skeptical. :)
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the distemper vaccine has been linked to joint problems.
does he have a tendon problem...or joint problem?
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the distemper vaccine has been linked to joint problems. Considering he was vaccinated 3 times by the time he was 8weeks of age (over vaccination in anyone's book!!) I link it to that. Can I prove it? No. Do I believe it, yes I do, 100%. It was a tendon in one of his rear legs.
Ok, I didn't know the full story with him..... I'll agree that was over vaccination. The thing is that distemper vaccinations have NOT been associated with tendon specific injuries, they are associated with a modified live viral induced POLYarthropothy. This means that after getting a modified live vaccination the dogs will develop symptoms in multiple joints as a result of autoimmune disease---essentially the body attacking the cartilage/synovia of the joint. Its not a tendon specific injury--thats where my confusion comes from with your dog. I've never heard of a case of VIPA affecting just one joint. As a matter of fact part of the diagnostic criteria is that MULTIPLE joints have to be showing clinical signs---and its specific to the joints, not the tendons. Tendons are a different anatomical structure.
The other thing which absolutely has to be considered is the breed of the dog. This is a great dane correct? that alone will significantly increase risk of tendon/joint disease if he got vaccinations or not.
I guess what I'm trying to say/ask you is if it is just one joint that is affected, blaming it totally on vaccinations is a long shot. Its much more likely that you are dealing with a breed related conformational issue than something brought on by vaccinations. Now I will agree with you that he was over vaccinated and if he had signs of a polyarthropothy prior to developing his current problem (I don't know the full story yet, so I may not know that fact) then it supports your idea more.
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Plenty of people have gotten rid of worms using it. I did say it can be a long process though and sometimes just worming is the way to go. I mentioned using DE in the yard which can be used VERY safely.
Kind of ironic that putting chemicals and poisons on or in your pets is not considered harmful though. ::)
Plenty of people have dewormed their dogs using woodash and tobacco too, but we both agree that that home remedy isn't a good one for the dogs.
everything is poisonous, you do realize that don't you? The water I'm drinking as I write this is capable of causing dihydrogen peroxide toxicity, which results in mineral depletion and death. ;) (I'm being sarcastic on purpose here).
The thing is there is a dog with a confirmed positive fecal exam who is at risk for spreading the parasites. Deworming with the correct dose of the drug is not inappropriate at all....... and its very, very different from giving a dog a dewormer because it "ain't got one in a few years".
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the distemper vaccine has been linked to joint problems. Considering he was vaccinated 3 times by the time he was 8weeks of age (over vaccination in anyone's book!!) I link it to that. Can I prove it? No. Do I believe it, yes I do, 100%. It was a tendon in one of his rear legs.
I think it is pretty far fetched to think that injecting substances that have an affect on the immune system could never cause harm. ::) And in Emmett's case that big of an assault in a short period of time is almost sure to cause problems. Others in his litters had other problems that I was aware of. What actually has happened to them or what else has showed up over the years I don't know. I had a falling out with his "breeders" over what they did to Emmett that was pretty stupid anyway you look at it, and the fact that he was not supposed to get ANY VACCINATIONS makes it an even bigger pisser as far as I am concerned. He didn't have to go through what he went through, and the lessened quality of life that gets more apparent as he gets older and that leg gets more unstable and I can tell does bother him at times, not to mention the money I spent to have his knee fixed and the money I spend on joint sups to try and keep him mobile and and pain free as I can for as long as I can.
Again, what tendon is it?
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it's all about the size of the "critter" it is the irritant to.
thats just it.... the diatomaceous earth is smaller than the parasites--diatomes are near microscopic, they have a thick enough of an exterior that it won't affect them, but the intestinal lining isn't the same "thick" structure---and doesn't have the same "exterior" that a hook worm or a round worm has. Thats why the logic behind diatomaceous earth makes no sense at all.
its also the same as using it for fleas. The only thing I've ever seen come from that is a couple of dogs with severe, severe foot and skin irritations from the diatomes----and they still had fleas.
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does he have a tendon problem...or joint problem?
Thats a very, very important question to ask. A tendon problem, even if its tendon synovia, is different from a joint problem. Causes and effects are different, although they are generally grouped together, they aren't the same.
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Thats a very, very important question to ask. A tendon problem, even if its tendon synovia, is different from a joint problem. Causes and effects are different, although they are generally grouped together, they aren't the same.
Thats my point.
Even has humans....we tend to call those two things the same thing
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Question for Vet: Would you say that using Drontal in this case would be veterinary standard protocol?
And what chances of recovery would you give the dog if given Diatomaceous earth, if the dog had a serious worm problem?
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Ok, I didn't know the full story with him..... I'll agree that was over vaccination. The thing is that distemper vaccinations have NOT been associated with tendon specific injuries, they are associated with a modified live viral induced POLYarthropothy. This means that after getting a modified live vaccination the dogs will develop symptoms in multiple joints as a result of autoimmune disease---essentially the body attacking the cartilage/synovia of the joint. Its not a tendon specific injury--thats where my confusion comes from with your dog. I've never heard of a case of VIPA affecting just one joint. As a matter of fact part of the diagnostic criteria is that MULTIPLE joints have to be showing clinical signs---and its specific to the joints, not the tendons. Tendons are a different anatomical structure.
The other thing which absolutely has to be considered is the breed of the dog. This is a great dane correct? that alone will significantly increase risk of tendon/joint disease if he got vaccinations or not.
I guess what I'm trying to say/ask you is if it is just one joint that is affected, blaming it totally on vaccinations is a long shot. Its much more likely that you are dealing with a breed related conformational issue than something brought on by vaccinations. Now I will agree with you that he was over vaccinated and if he had signs of a polyarthropothy prior to developing his current problem (I don't know the full story yet, so I may not know that fact) then it supports your idea more.
It was the long digital extensor I believe. I have paperwork around here somewhere, but offhand I don't know where and I am not digging for it now. I also have a link or something somewhere on how distemper vaccine was isolated from joints in dogs. But you know that, you mentioned PA, so isn't that contradicting yourself? There has also been some talk of the distemper vaccine affecting collagen.
I think he could have had a predisposition (his breed, his lineage contributing) to joint/tendon/ligament problems, sure. But I do believe 100% that being overvaccinated facilitated it. He had pano too in the opposite side front leg also, which did not cause him any problems and was found because we xrayed all his legs prior to surgery and it showed on an x-ray. Considering his age, that he was vaccinated so many times in a short period, that the distemper vaccine may affect collagen, I don't think it is a stretch to think that his vaccination history played a BIG role in his tendon tearing.
How bout you prove that vaccines are harmless. You can't do that. So how come you dispute anything possibly being attributed to vaccines, yet know they CAN do harm?
Doesn't make any sense to me.
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The thing is there is a dog with a confirmed positive fecal exam who is at risk for spreading the parasites. Deworming with the correct dose of the drug is not inappropriate at all....... and its very, very different from giving a dog a dewormer because it "ain't got one in a few years".
If you read you would notice I said go ahead and do it, use the Drontal.
I said if he comes up positive again that I would treat the yard with DE and consider putting him on DE.
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Question for Vet: Would you say that using Drontal in this case would be veterinary standard protocol?
And what chances of recovery would you give the dog if given Diatomaceous earth, if the dog had a serious worm problem?
Treatment with an appropriate anthelmetic is standard protocol.... This could be Drontal Plus or it could be Fenbendazole. There are other drugs too, but those are probably the most commonly used.
I would give a dog less than 5% chance for recovery if given diatomaceous earth as the sole dewormer if it had a serious toxocara and ancyclostoma infestation. Now, that is an arbitrary made up number, but I'm basing it on other cases i've seen and probable outcome based on my understanding of how Diatomaceous earth works. I'd also give the dog a 15% or more of a chance of developing serious GI side effects including vomiting, diarrhea, or worse if given orally and a 20% chance of showing signs of interdigital and ventral (between the toes and belly)skin irritation if diatmoaceous earth was used to treat the yard and the dogs were allowed outside prior to an intense rain.
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Bottom line, inject or orally dose them with any poison or chemical as the standard treatment and preventative for anything and everything.
Vaccinate for anything and everything too. Ignore duration of immunity studies and Principles of Immunity.
Bodies are not made to deal with anything, we must protect them. So we make more and more stuff to do that.
Everything is harmless and if it ain't, prove it!!
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It was the long digital extensor I believe. I have paperwork around here somewhere, but offhand I don't know where and I am not digging for it now. I also have a link or something somewhere on how distemper vaccine was isolated from joints in dogs. But you know that, you mentioned PA, so isn't that contradicting yourself? There has also been some talk of the distemper vaccine affecting collagen.
I think he could have had a predisposition (his breed, his lineage contributing) to joint/tendon/ligament problems, sure. But I do believe 100% that being overvaccinated facilitated it. He had pano too in the opposite side front leg also, which did not cause him any problems and was found because we xrayed all his legs prior to surgery and it showed on an x-ray. Considering his age, that he was vaccinated so many times in a short period, that the distemper vaccine may affect collagen, I don't think it is a stretch to think that his vaccination history played a BIG role in his tendon tearing.
No, I'm not contradicting myself. There is a tremendous difference between a "joint" and a "tendon" problem. distemper vaccinations have been linked to polyarthropathy---a joint specific problem.
You do know that there is a possible correlation between panosteitis and digital extensor problems don't you? The digital extensor tendons, specifically the long digital extensor is intimately involved with the periosteum (the connective tissue lining of the bone itself). With panosteitis, it occurs in large breeds (Great Danes, laboradors, German Shepards, basset hounds--basically all large breeds over 60 lbs in adult weight) with males having a much higher prevelance --from 70 to 80%.
In this disease the effected area shows increases osteoblastic and fibroblastic activity affecting the endosteum, periosteum, and marrow. There is fibrosis and connective tissue replacement of normal medullary cavity. There can also be the development of a line of new bone growth along the periosteum, thus affecting associated soft tissue structures--including the digitial extensor tendons. Radiographically a fine smooth layer of periosteal new bone may develop, but it blends in and makes the cortex appear thicker. The kicker with this disease is that there is no relationship between the severity of radiographic changes and the clinical lameness and that it is a multi-leg problem. It never occurs on just one leg. Comparison radiographs of the contralateral limbs can be helpful but the bottom line is the disease is a multi-leg problem.
How bout you prove that vaccines are harmless. You can't do that. So how come you dispute anything possibly being attributed to vaccines, yet know they CAN do harm?
Doesn't make any sense to me. [/color]
Flower, quit being stupid. I'm asking you about your dog because I don't know what his full story is. I'm not trying to prove or disprove anysort of an agenda. I'm also giving you my thoughts on his medical condition. You can take it or leave it, I really don't care. Dont' turn this into some stupid pissing contest because I'm daring to challenge your stubborn little mind about vaccinations. You have very, very little real proof that vaccinations have done anything to your dog. You are blaming distemper vaccinations based on conjecture and opinion (tendon vs joint and they MIGHT affect collagen) and ignoring the very real possibility that something else could have caused your dogs problems.
Was he overvaccinated---yes I agree with you that he was. There is no disputing this.
Did it do any harm? I don't think you have enough proof of that as a fact, especially considering breed and what you've presented of his history. From what I've gotten from you you have none of the associated problems with distemper vaccinations and dogs. Blaming the vaccination may not be the correct thing to blame.
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Bottom line, inject or orally dose them with any poison or chemical as the standard treatment and preventative for anything and everything.
Vaccinate for anything and everything too. Ignore duration of immunity studies and Principles of Immunity.
Bodies are not made to deal with anything, we must protect them. So we make more and more stuff to do that.
Everything is harmless and if it ain't, prove it!!
Good grief, are you hormonal today or what?
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He never had pano in the leg that the tendon tore. Only the one leg. We xrayed all of his legs. It was in one leg and not that severe from the xray. I was surprised it was only in one leg, and never any of the others. I guess his case of pano was not informed of the rules.
You did prove my point that the veterinary (and medical) community is usually NEVER willing to attribute any problems to vaccinations and preventatives too for that matter.
It's pretty easy to say "not the associated problems" when no problems are ever associated!! Unless a problem happens shortly (like right then and there) after the vaccination or chemical or poison is given, it is NEVER related.
Just like the series of vaccinations given to young animals is for boostering and not so that the majority of animals will have the vaccination be affective because the waning of maternal antibodies is different in every one.
Or just like distemper and parvo vaccination don't shed. Meaning an animal could not be vaccinated by a shed virus.
And Heartguard is not affective every 45 days, only if given every 30.
I made all that up. :)
Vet has the floor from now on. ;D
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He never had pano in the leg that the tendon tore. Only the one leg. We xrayed all of his legs. It was in one leg and not that severe from the xray. I was surprised it was only in one leg, and never any of the others. I guess his case of pano was not informed of the rules.
Wrong, it read all of the rules and followed them pretty closely. Reread what I posted.
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His ortho vet said there was Pano only in the one leg, which we thought was odd. Since he saw the xrays, and he operated on his knee, and he is an ortho specialist, I will choose to believe him because he had all the facts.
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*sigh*
Looks like I may have to go the Heartgard route. I thought I would be able to get away with not doing it. Shame on me, he hasn't been on it since....about April. I put him back on yesterday (before the fecal result) and intend to run it at least til November ~ December and then seasonally.... then again :-\ maybe that's not a good idea. I've got those damn welfare cats running around (and Scout finds their poop sometimes), not to mention other wild critters. There's no getting around it I guess since we live on several acres. Scout also attends doggy daycare once a week.
Thanks everyone for the get well wishes.
Oops, my mistake ~ Interceptor
(http://images.1800petmeds.com/images/products/group/Interceptor.jpg)
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His ortho vet said there was Pano only in the one leg, which we thought was odd. Since he saw the xrays, and he operated on his knee, and he is an ortho specialist, I will choose to believe him because he had all the facts.
So was it his knee or his digital extensor tendon or both? And did the "ortho specialist" say it all occured because he was over vaccinated?
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WoW!! Pano has a suspected cause being the distemper vaccine or virus!!! Who would of thought there could be any connection? :o I wonder if Emmett getting 3 combo vacs which included distemper in a 3 week period could of had anything to do with his Pano and tendon tear? NAW! That is SOOOO far fetched. Oh well, had to look into the pano thing anyways since it was mentioned as a possible cause of his tear. But then that could link it back to the vaccines, and they are harmless. :-\
Panosteits is a disease in which there is inflammatory and degenerative changes of the medullary (the medulla= the middle compartment of long (e.g. leg) bones.
The medulla of bones is a soft tissue space surrounded by hard (cortical) bone; it contains marrow (fat and blood cell precurosrs).
Causes
Viral: causes are presently unclear but there is considerable evidence that there is an underlying viral etiology. Some speculate that Canine Distemper infection or vaccination may each play an important role.
Another interesting twist to the viral theory is that panosteitis was first identified as a problem at the same time that modified live distemper vaccines became widely available on the market. Since wild distemper virus can be isolated from bone tissue, some researchers feel that there might be a link between distemper virus vaccine and panosteitis, however, more research in this area will need to be done before any serious speculations can be made.