Getbig.com: American Bodybuilding, Fitness and Figure
Getbig Bodybuilding Boards => Training Q&A => Topic started by: phatj on January 04, 2008, 02:55:07 PM
-
looking for eveyones personal routine that has worked the best over the years. and if you could, give stats of your biceps and lets be accurate guys. don't measure the size of your arms like you do your dicks.
-
BEST ARMS ROUTINE FOR ME WAS NOT TRAINING THEM.. NOT A JOKE
-
15 sets of chin-ups, 50 reps each set
25 x 30 sets of bb curls, pyramid up to 405
25 x 50 sets of db curls, pyramid up to 170
15 x 100 preacher curls, pyramid up to 225
15 x 100 cable curls
left arm: 26.7543 inches cold, 28.1043 pumped, when done together with triceps 30.8761
right arm: 27.2509 inches cold, 28.9563 pumped, when done together with triceps 31.0564
-
3 -4 sets of dumbbell curls, 3-4 sets of barbell curls once a week after back.... before bicep tear :-\
Now mostly dumbells.
At my best 14" maybe 14 1/2 5' 6" 132.
-
A new shock routine that I will be doing from now on, courtesy of Chaos.
At the end of every bicep workout: 2 setsx25 reps of bicep cable curls (seated position, elbows on knees, full stretch and contraction)
My arms ached for awhile after our workout.
-
The most effective thing I've ever done for biceps is just plain old running the DB rack.
-
A new shock routine that I will be doing from now on, courtesy of Chaos.
At the end of every bicep workout: 2 setsx25 reps of bicep cable curls (seated position, elbows on knees, full stretch and contraction)
My arms ached for awhile after our workout.
I used to do that - it's a killer.
Best bicep routine I've used (which I'm also currently using at the moment):
1. Standing ez-bar cable curls - 3 sets of 12 reps with wide grip immediately followed by dropping the weight ever so slightly and doing an immediate 12 reps with a narrow grip (works both heads of the biceps). By the third set of this you won't want to do any more.
2. Next move on to seated machine preacher curls - 3 sets of 10-12 reps with heaviest weight you can handle in perfect form.
3. Finally, dumbell hammer curls - 3 sets 12 reps.
Finish.
-
Personally, I do biceps like i do every other body part...on their own day: That's the only body part I do that day.
My routine rotates each week between:
Concentration curls
Preacher Dumbell Curls
Incline Hammer Curls
-And-
E-Z Curls
Reverse Curls
Overhead Cable Curls
The number of sets vary depending on how I and the exercise feels. And I believe the weight should be HEAVY and reps made to build muscle, which means they do get low (even on Concentration Curls which I do for MASS). I'm just not a believer that higher reps (although good for variation) is great for building muscle...the body adapts to what you give it...the more (heavier) you give the more (size) you get. Of course that depends on nutrition, rest, etc.
As I'm writing this, biceps cold measure a little over 17 3/4" at 5'10", 230# and almost 44 years old. Not great, but not too bad...
-
Your arms grow as you grow.
Curls do not make you grow.
squats, presses, rows, pulls, and food make you grow.
When people stop and stare at you on the street because you are that jacked, when you are competing at a national level, worry about a 'bicep routine'.
Until then, you need to worry about your entire routine.
-
A new shock routine that I will be doing from now on, courtesy of Chaos.
At the end of every bicep workout: 2 setsx25 reps of bicep cable curls (seated position, elbows on knees, full stretch and contraction)
My arms ached for awhile after our workout.
might try that this week cap... my bis are so seasoned... i hardly get them to ache...
as much anymore..not for the last 8 months have my bi's truly ached the next day
-
Soreness is not an indicator of effective training.
-
maybe but i like it..
means thats ive throughly shocked and broken down the muscle tissue...
which constitutes effective training for me
-
But that's not what it means.
Do yourself a favor. Do some research (not in bodybuilding mags or forums) on what causes DOMS.
Then do a little more on what causes hypertrophy.
A hint: Progress in the weight room is meaningful. Getting sore is not.
-
;D ;D
i dont need to do research to know what works for me..
dont tell me your one of those guys who walks around the gym with a log.. looking at your watch to time your rest time between your set...
;D ;D ;D
gettin big and cut isnt that complx to me..so i wouldnt be doin research from a science book to do so...
....
but hey if that works for you....
do your thing
me i work for the soreness
8) 8)
-
A log? Sure. That's a great way to track progress.
A stopwatch? No.
Speaking of making your training more complicated than it needs to be, my training consists of 6 lifts. None of them are curls.
If you think soreness is an indicator of anything, you are ignorant of physiology, and don't understand why your body grows or doesn't. That's not going to get you very far.
-
If you're arms aren't bigger than 15" you shouldn't train them directly.
-
why do you say that emmortal what is this based on....
If you're arms aren't bigger than 15" you shouldn't train them directly.
-
It means what it means really. They'll get bigger by doing the compound lifts. You'll be surprised at how much they grow without direct training.
Training them directly at sub 15" size they'll still grow of course, but there's just no need because they'll grow tremendously with compound lifting. Especially if you are doing isolation exercises like concentration curls or preacher curls.
-
A log? Sure. That's a great way to track progress.
A stopwatch? No.
Speaking of making your training more complicated than it needs to be, my training consists of 6 lifts. None of them are curls.
If you think soreness is an indicator of anything, you are ignorant of physiology, and don't understand why your body grows or doesn't. That's not going to get you very far.
soreness to me is an indicater of the muscle tissue being broke down....
because a your doing something the muscle isnt used to whether it be.... higher reps... more weight... a different excersise... etc...
that soreness is what i crave because tht means ive hit the muscle...hard....
mmmmm ... i see guys carrying around these logs.. all the time.. why?
-
as far as i know they carry around logs all the time to accurately track their progress on each and every move..
-
If you aren't making progress, i.e. lifting heavier weight/doing more reps, then you aren't progressing. Keeping a log is the only way to to know this unless you have an incredible memory, which most of us are not blessed with.
-
i remember what i did on my first ever workout....
if you cant remember what you did on... your last workout your best then..yur mind isnt into what your doin..
i am yet to see a guy with a really good phsique walk around with a log...
thats not to say you guys who do use logs dont...
but in my time in the gym im yet to see one...
just go to the gym.. lift the weight ....watch your form and dont lift too heavy u strain yourself...its not rocket science.... i always say pople overcomplicate muscle building
to each their own i guess
-
soreness to me is an indicater of the muscle tissue being broke down....
Actually, it isn't. And even if it is, that's not the road to hypertrophy.
because a your doing something the muscle isnt used to whether it be.... higher reps... more weight... a different excersise... etc...
that soreness is what i crave because tht means ive hit the muscle...hard....
But it has nothing to do with getting bigger muscles. Getting bigger muscles has to do with adaptation. A better goal would be to increase weight over time and decrease soreness. That would mean you are adapting, and you'll be getting bigger.
mmmmm ... i see guys carrying around these logs.. all the time.. why?
To track how much we squat.
To keep a record of what works and what doesn't. Because getting sore doesn't tell you that. Long term results do tell you that.
-
Actually, it isn't. And even if it is, that's not the road to hypertrophy.
But it has nothing to do with getting bigger muscles. Getting bigger muscles has to do with adaptation. A better goal would be to increase weight over time and decrease soreness. That would mean you are adapting, and you'll be getting bigger.
To track how much we squat.
To keep a record of what works and what doesn't. Because getting sore doesn't tell you that. Long term results do tell you that.
i thing gettin sore has everything to do with MY muscles getting bigger...
i always work for that soreness... for me not getting sore means your muscles have adapted so i find ways to tear them up again..which leads back to getting sore
and i never lift light weight....
and im always gettin bigger
Mes
8)
-
Are you an alien?
Soreness has nothing to do with hypertrophy. Nothing.
So training to get sore is not why you are getting bigger. Maybe you would be even bigger than you are if you knew what you were doing.
-
Are you an alien?
Soreness has nothing to do with hypertrophy. Nothing.
So training to get sore is not why you are getting bigger. Maybe you would be even bigger than you are if you knew what you were doing.
mes is an a bsolute beast, and i agree with him if it causes growth or not I like the soreness. It makes me feel like I had an effective workout. Lift hard, eat good food and rest and you'll grow. Pretty simple,but it's the truth.
-
Are you an alien?
Soreness has nothing to do with hypertrophy. Nothing.
So training to get sore is not why you are getting bigger. Maybe you would be even bigger than you are if you knew what you were doing.
;D ;D ;D
naw not an alien...
i just know that once my muscles are sore i know beyond doubt they are definetly broken down and thoroughly taxed....
so you can keep training out of your science books..
and ill keep lifting heavy ass weight and gettin sore.. which over the yrs have goten be bigget and kept my muscles dense and cut
;D
-
mes is an a bsolute beast, and i agree with him if it causes growth or not I like the soreness. It makes me feel like I had an effective workout. Lift hard, eat good food and rest and you'll grow. Pretty simple,but it's the truth.
thx...for the shoutout.. man. you know the truth man...
-
I agree about the soreness. I like the way it feels, even if its only psychological :)
Bicep routine:
Cable curls: 3 sets
Barbell curls- 3 sets
Preacher curls-3 sets
Hammer curls-2-3 sets
-
pjs is correct. doms is NOT an indicator of growth mesomorph. you have a great physique and you're very strong but your levels of doms had nothing to do with building it.
if you were to start doing 20km runs instead of your leg workout, you'd get doms too, but (assuming you already have reasonable legs) your quads would not hypertrophy.
-
You guys insist that DOMS definitely are not an indicator of a good workout/hypertrophy. Is there any proof of this, or you're saying this cuz there's lack of positive proof?
-
Both, sort of.
What causes DOMS is questionable, but what people think causes it is not a direct cause of hypertrophy.
The more important way to look at it:
Can you get DOMS doing something that will not cause hypertrophy? Yes.
Can you train and not get DOMS and cause hypertrophy? Yes.
Those two things make it clear that the relationship between DOMS and hypertrophy is tenuous at best, and more likley simply non existant.
-
pjs is correct. doms is NOT an indicator of growth mesomorph. you have a great physique and you're very strong but your levels of doms had nothing to do with building it.
if you were to start doing 20km runs instead of your leg workout, you'd get doms too, but (assuming you already have reasonable legs) your quads would not hypertrophy.
mmmm but my leg muscles. would get sore adapt.. to be able to make me run longer... as those those 20 k runs would serve to build leg and all round endurance..
im doing training for muscles.... and tearing my muscle tissue down for regrowth to be able to handle heavier weight..
for me my muscles grow....
-
mmmm but my leg muscles. would get sore adapt.. to be able to make me run longer... as those those 20 k runs would serve to build leg and all round endurance..
im doing training for muscles.... and tearing my muscle tissue down for regrowth to be able to handle heavier weight..
for me my muscles grow....
not 100% sure what you're on about here, but i'll give it a go...
20k runs will help you adapt (to that end) but they won't make you big and strong. in fact they will make you less muscular and strong over time. so, in that environment, doms or not, your legs are becoming weaker.
-
but the purpose o the 20 k runs would not be to make them bigger or stronger.... it would be for endurance.. and after a while 20k runs would becomme normal and easy for the legs...
which is why i change up my workouts so i keep gettein sore... and im always getting bigger.. works for me
-
but the purpose o the 20 k runs would not be to make them bigger or stronger.... it would be for endurance.. and after a while 20k runs would becomme normal and easy for the legs...
which is why i change up my workouts so i keep gettein sore... and im always getting bigger.. works for me
wtf???
you said that doms IS an indicator of muscle growth.
i made the POINT that if you suddenly started running 20kms pd you would get doms, but definitely no muscle growth (unless you had fuck all muscle in your legs to start with).
-
but im sayn 20k runs wouldnt.. be for building...muscle
the excerses i do in the gym is for building muscle.. so getting sore through those techniques build my muscles
... getting sore through 20 k runs.. are for building endurance not muscle mass
-
Which would mean soreness has nothing to do with growth.
-
no.. it all depends what you get sore from....
what kind of training
-
The only time I get DOMS is after a 1 week break I take every 12 weeks or so. Yet I continue to grow just fine without getting DOMS on a regular basis.
What PJ and everyone else is saying is DOMS is not a measurement of muscle growth, this is a proven fact.
-
want big biceps? no more than 5-6 total hard sets a week. Period. My arms have exploded since I stopped trying to do more sets than a tennis tournament... Now I'll do 4-6 sets once a week with never more than 10 reps per set..
this past workout..
seated dumbbell hammers
60lbsx6x1
70lbsx6x1
80lbsx6x1
100lbsx2x1
then barbell curls
145x6x2 and that's it..
nothing on a stability ball..nothing cable... just heavy free weights. Your biceps get SLAMMED in heavy back routines. No reason to give them two times the work than anything else. Big biceps come from heavy back work and heavy deads..no amount of curls will give you big arms.
my arms are both over 18" now..not counting the fact that I'm a fat shit. I took a poll of all the guys I know with legit arms over 18" and 90% said they work bi's with only one or two exercises for a couple sets and that's it..the other guys didn't do bicep work anymore. Once I stopped pounding the hell out of them and gave them a chance to grow they grow like weeds and I now have stretch marks on them. :-\ :-X :-[ but I finally broke the 18" mark.
stop making your lives harder in the gym then they have to be.
-
Yea, lower reps, heavy weights will do wonders for your arms, triceps included.
-
DOMS is not a direct indicator of growth, but it is a means to an end. It does indicate that you worked your muscles in a way they are unaccustomed to, which is a common goal for a single workout (aka "shock your muscles" type of workout.)
The most direct way DOMS may indicate growth is the absence of it from increasing intensity of workouts. The lack of DOMS from progressively increasing intensity proves they body is adapting to increasing workload (increased strength, increased endurance, increased neuronal activation.)
-
DOMS is not a direct indicator of growth, but it is a means to an end. It does indicate that you worked your muscles in a way they are unaccustomed to, which is a common goal for a single workout (aka "shock your muscles" type of workout.)
The most direct way DOMS may indicate growth is the absence of it from increasing intensity of workouts. The lack of DOMS from progressively increasing intensity proves they body is adapting to increasing workload (increased strength, increased endurance, increased neuronal activation.)
bullshit
it's not indicative or attributal to hypertrophy.
running 20kms certainly will give you doms if you're not used to it, but it just as certainly won't hint at anything anabolic, and as far as endurance adaptation goes, there are much more efficient and effective ways of building endurance in the muscles than suddenly going on a 20km run.
you can also induce a higher incidence of doms if you simply space the frequency of your bodypart workouts longer. will that mean that, because you're getting very sore once a week, this indicates sufficient intensity for growth? hell no. otherwise all these weekend warriors with mondayitis would be the strongest men on the planet.
doms does not = growth either directly or indirectly. move on now...
-
Exactly. I'm not sure why this concept is so difficult to grasp for people.
-
bullshit
it's not indicative or attributal to hypertrophy.
running 20kms certainly will give you doms if you're not used to it, but it just as certainly won't hint at anything anabolic, and as far as endurance adaptation goes, there are much more efficient and effective ways of building endurance in the muscles than suddenly going on a 20km run.
you can also induce a higher incidence of doms if you simply space the frequency of your bodypart workouts longer. will that mean that, because you're getting very sore once a week, this indicates sufficient intensity for growth? hell no. otherwise all these weekend warriors with mondayitis would be the strongest men on the planet.
doms does not = growth either directly or indirectly. move on now...
Week 1: 4 sets of Bicep curls = sore
Week 2: 4 sets of bicep curls = not sore
Week 3: 5 sets of bicep curls = sore
Week 4: 5 sets of bicep curls = not sore
Week 5: 6 sets of bicep curls = sore
Week 6: 7 sets of bicep curls = not sore
My point if you took the time to actually read my post is this: DOMS can be used over time as an indicator to gauge the body's adaption to increased intensity. Increased adaption = more strength = more endurance = eventually hypertrophy. At no point in my senseless incoherent rambling did I ever remotely state that a single bout of DOMS indicates growth. Comparing running to training biceps does not help to further the discussion, it only perpetuates a discussion comparing apples to oranges.
-
Week 1: 4 sets of Bicep curls = sore
Week 2: 4 sets of bicep curls = not sore
Week 3: 5 sets of bicep curls = sore
Week 4: 5 sets of bicep curls = not sore
Week 5: 6 sets of bicep curls = sore
Week 6: 7 sets of bicep curls = not sore
My point if you took the time to actually read my post is this: DOMS can be used over time as an indicator to gauge the body's adaption to increased intensity. Increased adaption = more strength = more endurance = eventually hypertrophy. At no point in my senseless incoherent rambling did I ever remotely state that a single bout of DOMS indicates growth. Comparing running to training biceps does not help to further the discussion, it only perpetuates a discussion comparing apples to oranges.
you were right about your 'senseless ramblings' and you should have left it there.
so now you're saying that adding sets to your curls adds more intensity ??? which is indicated by resulting doms ???
sorry, i really don't see how a sensible discussion can proceed.
have fun with your doms bud. just think, if you jump out of a plane travelling at a high altitude without a parachute, the resulting doms will indicate sufficient intensity to make your quads bigger than ronnie coleman's... :o
;D
-
you were right about your 'senseless ramblings' and you should have left it there.
so now you're saying that adding sets to your curls adds more intensity ??? which is indicated by resulting doms ???
sorry, i really don't see how a sensible discussion can proceed.
have fun with your doms bud. just think, if you jump out of a plane travelling at a high altitude without a parachute, the resulting doms will indicate sufficient intensity to make your quads bigger than ronnie coleman's... :o
;D
I tried to use an oversimplified example so you wouldn't pop a blood vessel attempting to comprehend my tremendously complicated point. ::) I surmise that from your hostility you know I have a valid point and instead of responding with serious counterpoints you have resorted to examples of skydiving.
-
I tried to use an oversimplified example so you wouldn't pop a blood vessel attempting to comprehend my tremendously complicated point. ::) I surmise that from your hostility you know I have a valid point and instead of responding with serious counterpoints you have resorted to examples of skydiving.
what's wrong with my skydiving example ??? if you land on your feet, the proceeding eccentric muscle contraction will be like nothing you ever felt before and is sure to give you doms.
-
want big biceps? no more than 5-6 total hard sets a week. Period. My arms have exploded since I stopped trying to do more sets than a tennis tournament... Now I'll do 4-6 sets once a week with never more than 10 reps per set..
this past workout..
seated dumbbell hammers
60lbsx6x1
70lbsx6x1
80lbsx6x1
100lbsx2x1
then barbell curls
145x6x2 and that's it..
nothing on a stability ball..nothing cable... just heavy free weights. Your biceps get SLAMMED in heavy back routines. No reason to give them two times the work than anything else. Big biceps come from heavy back work and heavy deads..no amount of curls will give you big arms.
my arms are both over 18" now..not counting the fact that I'm a fat shit. I took a poll of all the guys I know with legit arms over 18" and 90% said they work bi's with only one or two exercises for a couple sets and that's it..the other guys didn't do bicep work anymore. Once I stopped pounding the hell out of them and gave them a chance to grow they grow like weeds and I now have stretch marks on them. :-\ :-X :-[ but I finally broke the 18" mark.
stop making your lives harder in the gym then they have to be.
I totally agree. My right is 18.25" & left is 18" cold and I don't work them more than 3 exercises a week with 3 sets on each. I train bi's and tri's together once a week and for bi's I only do bb curls, standing db curls, and one-arm db conc. curls on preacher bench. I just go as heavy as I can with very strict form. Don't rock or use any outside cheating motion. My reps are always around 8 or so.
I've found that if you are really blasting your back weekly you don't have to do much more for the arms to grow. Just a few exercises, lots of food and most importantly REST!!!
-
I'll take both sides on this one.. First of all, from your picture, you are in no way an expert on training. Neither am I, so I wont bash you too much on that fact. I do agree that whoever posted this did not ask to be insulted, or given some roundabout smartass answer about how you're bigger than him, so he should not worry about his arms until he can squat 500 pounds.
Maybe this guy doesnt want to get huge, but wants his arms to look decent, and carry some muscle mass on them. A simple answer would've sufficed, which is what I think started this entire debate.
I don't necessarily feel like the information is completely innacurrate, but I have certainly on more than one occasion found things that don't correspond to other information I've found on the internet. I think this is largely because different things work for every person.
One person may need a gram of coke to feel fucked up, or 12 beers, while it could kill someone else. It's subjective to the person asking, and the person answering the question.
I agree to take thing with a grain of salt, no matter where you hear them. If you always did what someone else told you was correct, youd be in a world of trouble. Take whats said to you on this board as advice, and still do your research if you're unsure, that simple.
Furthermore, being big, small, ripped, or bulky doesn't make you a badass... In reality, this semi chubby fellow could probably knock the shit out of half of the people on this board, despite the fact he isn't in good shape. Ken shamrock got knocked out 4 times by a younger guy, with a noticeably worse "physique"
so besides the fact you have had experience with coke in the past what exactly are you contributing to this arguement? ::)
-
I'm playing mediator. I don't contribute much to the boards, because unlike the majority of people on earth, I'm a novice, so I keep my mouth shut, unless I'm 100% sure of something. It's annoying/irrritating/frustrating seeing someone ask a decent question, and then having to comb through 500 responses of arguments about why the guy is a f%*^ing idiot for asking a question.
Thats something 7th graders would do. I was simply stating that I agree with the original post that a lot of the info you find here, probably is bullshit, or at least not COMPLETELY factual/scientifically proven.
Instead of arguing about that nonsense bullcrap, just take what you read as advice, and stop bashing everyone. It's easy to run your mouth on a message board, but would you do it in person? It's childish.
We're all here to better ourselves, I would assume. So why not just help, and answer peoples questions, instead of fucking with someone who's trying to help.
Squats and deadlifts are not the answer for someone who is just trying to tone their arms.
Prime example of misinformation. I would be willing to bet my sack that someone my size, with the same diet, working out the same frequency/intensity would not develop more arm muscle, if i was doing an all biceps routine, and they were doing all deadlifts, and squats.
so you're saying you're a novice and don't know much, but then you say squats and deadlifts are not the answer for someone who is just trying to tone their arms (not that the guy was asking about just toning his arms).
this despite the fact that a couple of people who are definitely not novices and actually do know what they're talking about, trying to give some very good advice to a guy seeking to BUILD his arms (not just tone them).
then, novice that you are, you are willing to bet your 'sack' on this assetion.
i can only assume your nutsack is fairly wothless... :-\
-
rw i think you hit it on the head "there's a difference between being a pro, and a know it all" but i also think that comment made to squat was to encourage someone to work on overall strength at least as much as specific muscular strength and also i think it was said with a bit of sarcasm...but with that being said i agree to a point...i believe to be completely strong and or an effective bber if thast your thing then you need to work everythin equally...
-
i got my arms from
makin them sore..
started with 12.. 13 inches.. now there a fair size..
so i will keep on makin them sore
because that works for me
-
I'm not a professional bodybuilding, but also not completely naive to the way the human body functions.
Squats might trigger your body to burn more calories, and stimulate muscle growth, indirectly, but you certainly
will not ad much size to your biceps without something that hits them in some way.
You disagree?
You could squat all day, and if you dont do some type of lifting that involves your biceps/triceps/forearms/shoulders,
you would potentially not see the type of growth you would if you also trained your arms directly.
Deadlifts have the potential to use bicep muscles, and therefore would provide some type or strain on this muscle group.
However, without additional excercises aime towards both heads of your biceps, you aren't likely to see the same gains
as if you did.
My sack is great, and I happen to love it.
Go to any gym on the planet, and ask any guy with ANY muscle mass on their arms, what they do for biceps. NOT A SINGLE ONE WOULD SAY "deadlifts and squats"... there's a difference between being a pro, and a know it all.. I think these boards have that confused.
I'm only butting into this thread because its riddiculous that the arguement is even being made that a guy who asks for bicep size is told to do fucking squats.
"Deadlifts have the potential to use bicep muscles..."
classic ;D
it never ceases to amaze me how many opinionated stupid people there are on these boards.
-
what's incorrect about that statement, "beast"
tell you what "cushing"... go and ask andy bolton or even big mike (who posts on this board now and then) how much 'potential' deadlifts have to 'use bicep muscles'.
both of these men are extremely large and powerful with large and powerful biceps, yet both have tore bicep muscles purely from the strain of heavy deadlifting.
stick to your 10lb concentration curls "cushing"...that'll get you big arms. ;) ::)
-
so you're saying that the primary muscle group used in deadlifts is your biceps, and that no other bicep work is needed?
I'll certainly ask both of these gentleman if they refrain from doing any type of bicep only movement.
A guy at my gym right now has a fucked up tricep from doing shrugs... this doesnt mean that he shouldn't bench, or do any tricep movements, just because he does shrugs...
"cushing" is my name, not a proclamation like "beast"....... so it really doesn't work for you in quotes..
I'm sure you're college educated on anything to do with physical therapy, anatomy, or science, right?
don't be disingenuous now for the sake of winning a message board debate.
when did i say that the primary muscle used in deadlifts was the biceps? or even imply it for that matter??
i was simply countering your ignorant statement about deadlifts merely having the 'potential' to cause bicep involvement.
let me put it this way...
what is the primary muscle used in squats? if you say 'quads' you're wrong. the primary muscle is the spinal erector muscles of the back, followed by hip flexors, followed by glutes, followed by hamstrings.......
on the other hand, what is the primary muscle used in leg extensions? yep, you guessed it, the quads!!!
yet, if you were to choose which exercise would be more effective at adding strength and size to your quads, you would choose squats...i hope, or you're even more ignorant than i thought...ok, well anyone that knows anything at all about building muscle or strength would choose squats.
it's called overload and synergy "cushing". read some books on strength training/bodybuilding from
the pre-school library and then get back to me.
-
"the primary muscle is the spinal erector muscles of the back, followed by hip flexors, followed by glutes, followed by hamstrings......."
Sounds like you're the one who needs to hit preschool books. The primary muscle is not "erector spinae", also, you're showing your vast knowledge by saying "hip flexors". Hip flexor muscles are used for pulling your legs up, ie crunches, hanging leg raises, etc. So unless you are doing squats upside down, this is not a main muscle group.
Not that I need to go into this any further, since you obviously are misinformed. Do some research, rather than relying on what you've heard. The primary muscle IS your quads.
Give me a break bro... your upper body is only being used as a stabilizer.. Much the way your biceps and forearms are used to stabilize dumbells during DB bench press.
Not that this was the original nature of the post.. .You just had to respond to my informed post to show that you were more "knowledgable".
Your statement about the guys pulling their biceps is absolutely retarted also. More than one powerlifter has strained their ab muscles, sometimes their back doing heavy bench pressing, so are you saying bench presses are sufficient to build back, and abs?
Deadlifts DO NOT CONCENTRATE on your biceps in any way shape of forum.
Humility is a virtue. If you dont know, keep your mouth shut.
;D
you have no idea whatsoever about kinesiology. i don't even know where to start, you have got it so wrong.
my issue is not that you are retarded. i have nothing against retarded people.
-
hips both extend and flex in squat. without both functions peforming efficiently, you will not squat, therfore they are a prime mover.
the muscles of the lower lumbar ie spinal erectors, in fact, do flex and extend (they are not just there for core stability you tool)and, yes, are most certainly a prime mover in squats.
synergy is a combination of numerous muscle groups to perform the function. if you don't have a clue how many muscles of the body are involved in the squat then i'm sorry but i don't have the time to explain kinesiology 101 to you.
-
wow, melt down... ;D
here, i'll try and simplify it:
are the hips a prime mover in the squat?
are the spinal erectors a prime mover in the squat?
i'm sure that the knowledgeable people in this section will agree with me here.
i would suggest that if your quads are the most important prime mover in the squat, you won't squat much weight at all and you won't have functioning knees for very long.
you now agree with me that synergy is an important function in the squat and that the spinal erector muscles of the lower back do actually perform a function other than core stability (although, if you weren't retarded you would have realized this simply by understanding what 'erector' means). thankyou, that was courageous to admit you were wrong on both counts.
you're right though, it is stupid to keep arguing on this section of the board, but your arrogance combined with your lack of knowledge lured me in.
consider your lesson over son.
-
The exercise's main emphasis is on the quadriceps and the glutes, but it also involves the hamstrings, the calves, and the lower back. The squat is often called "the king of exercises" by those who believe it capable of inducing more and faster muscle growth than any other exercise.[1]
Sidney, D: "Squat today, grow every day: do this king of all exercises and sprout muscle even in your upper body - Body Shop". Men's Fitness, April 2005.
-
are the hips a prime mover in the squat?
The muscle that causes an action is referred to as the prime mover. No, the hips are not a prime mover in a squat because the "hips" are not a muscle.
are the spinal erectors a prime mover in the squat?
No. Asserting that the spinal erectors are a prime mover in a squat is like saying that your wrist flexors are a prime mover in a bicep curl.
hips both extend and flex in squat.
The hip joints flex and extend in a squat but the hip muscles utilized in a squat are for hip extension only.
-
contrary to popular opinion, the most important prime mover in the squat is actually the spinal erector muscles.
that is how you get a trainee who can leg press 1000lbs+ but can't squat 250lbs.
you could have the strongest quads in the world but if your spinal erector muscles aren't very strong, you're not going to have an impressive squat.
conversely, if your quads aren't very strong but your erector muscles are super strong you will have a very big squat.
arthur jones (of nautilus fame) once tested fred hatfield (who happened to have been training for the heaviest squat in human history) purely on quad strength (one of his strength testing machines) and found that fred's quads were just not very strong and, in fact, quite a few other tested individuals had stronger quads but nowhere near fred's squat numbers. however, fred's spinal erector muscles and hip flexors were incredibly strong.
-
anyone that can legpress 1000lbs full rom, can piss 250lbs in the squat, even if its a completely new movement... that is a FACT !!!!!!!.. if you dont think use your lower back when u legpress u want to try leg pressing with a bad back
-
anyone that can legpress 1000lbs full rom, can piss 250lbs in the squat, even if its a completely new movement... that is a FACT !!!!!!!.. if you dont think use your lower back when u legpress u want to try leg pressing with a bad back
The exercise's main emphasis is on the quadriceps and the glutes, but it also involves the hamstrings, the calves, and the lower back. The squat is often called "the king of exercises" by those who believe it capable of inducing more and faster muscle growth than any other exercise.[1]
Sidney, D: "Squat today, grow every day: do this king of all exercises and sprout muscle even in your upper body - Body Shop". Men's Fitness, April 2005.
Please quote where someone posted that the low back is not used in a squat.
-
contrary to popular opinion, the most important prime mover in the squat is actually the spinal erector muscles.
I may not agree with the above statement, but if you can provide some information supporting it I'm open to reassessing my opinion.
From Georgia State University: http://www2.gsu.edu/~wwwfit/lowerbod.html (http://www2.gsu.edu/~wwwfit/lowerbod.html)
Prime Movers/Muscle worked: Quadriceps (the muscles on the front of the upper leg), Hamstrings ( the muscles on the back of the upper leg), Gluteals, Hip Flexors, and Calf muscles.
From http://exercise.about.com/b/2006/05/03/squats-squats-and-more-squats.htm (http://exercise.about.com/b/2006/05/03/squats-squats-and-more-squats.htm)
The prime mover is the gluteus maximus, but the quads, hamstrings and calves are also involved as synergists and stabilizers as well, so you get a lot of bang for your buck.
From http://72.14.205.104/search?q=cache:qT-xdVkEdpIJ:www.onsperformance.com/SSC/w-thesquat.pdf+prime+mover+squat&hl=en&ct=clnk&cd=15&gl=us (http://72.14.205.104/search?q=cache:qT-xdVkEdpIJ:www.onsperformance.com/SSC/w-thesquat.pdf+prime+mover+squat&hl=en&ct=clnk&cd=15&gl=us)
The prime movers of sprinting
and jumping are the knee and hip extensor muscles, which are the prime movers
involved in squatting
Barbell Full Squat
From http://www.bodybuilding.com/fun/exercises.php?MainMuscle=Quadriceps
Exercise Data
Main Muscle Worked: Quadriceps
Other Muscles Worked: Hamstrings, Calves, Glutes
-
however, fred's spinal erector muscles and hip flexors were incredibly strong.
I'm having trouble understanding how hip flexors increase your squat. Based on origin and insertion of the Iliopsoas, if you contracted them while squatting you would be doing and isometric contraction. If I flex my triceps while doing bicep curls the weight doesn't move.
(http://www.fitstep.com/Advanced/Anatomy/Graphics/hip-flexors-anatomy.jpg)
The function of the Iliopsoas is hip flexion, which means bringing the thigh up towards the abdomen.
Exercises that work the Hip Flexors include: Sit-ups, Hanging leg raises, Leg raises, Resisted hip flexion.
-
hey beast... if you take this far enough, I can be an all star, with as many worthless posts as you.
I also dedicated my avatar to you, sexy!
hey, thanks 'all star'. you go girl... ;D