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Getbig Bodybuilding Boards => Steroids Info & Hardcore => Topic started by: Slintowin4424 on February 10, 2008, 07:55:13 PM
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So here it is I will bulk for a bit then rest one more time and bulk again right before cutting But my offseason will look like this
600mg Deca weeks 1-13
1350mg Test weeks 1-13
75mg dianabol week 1-5
nolvedex 50mg week 2-16
Hcg 700mg week 4-15
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run the HCG 500iu e3d. Stop 4 days before PCT, wich it looks like your doing.
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If you're going to use something to combat estrogen, I'd prefer arimidex or letrozol...save nolva for PCT IMO.
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If you're going to use something to combat estrogen, I'd prefer arimidex or letrozol...save nolva for PCT IMO.
I completely agree with this. Sorry I didnt see that. adex or letro will knock out the estrogen fast and keep it at bay.
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If you're going to use something to combat estrogen, I'd prefer arimidex or letrozol...save nolva for PCT IMO.
Agreed.
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Heres the problem my friends arim only fills up receptors leaving estrogen levels unable to bind but still very high in your body once they clear then you have a problem all over again, Letro is great but I use during season time I think nolvedex is more then adequate for during a cycle but I could be wrong
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I think you have nolva and adex confused bro. Arimidex works by blocking the aromatase enzyme, which is responsible for the production of estrogen. Therefore your body is not full of estrogens. Where Nolvadex, competes for the receptor site in breast tissue and binds to it. On 500mg ew of test arimidex will bring your estrogens down to about normal, unless your body converts at a much higher level than normal.
1mg Arimidex ed = aprox 50% decrease in Estrogens = 58% increase in Testosterone = No change in gh = 18% decrease in IGF
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I think you have nolva and adex confused bro. Arimidex works by blocking the aromatase enzyme, which is responsible for the production of estrogen. Therefore your body is not full of estrogens. Where Nolvadex, competes for the receptor site in breast tissue and binds to it. On 500mg ew of test arimidex will bring your estrogens down to about normal, unless your body converts at a much higher level than normal.
1mg Arimidex ed = aprox 50% decrease in Estrogens = 58% increase in Testosterone = No change in gh = 18% decrease in IGF
would 1 mg arimi eod work ?? i was told that .5 mg eod would be sufficient.. but i want it to be effective as possibl, but yet still affordable to run...ive only got so much..
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would 1 mg arimi eod work ?? i was told that .5 mg eod would be sufficient.. but i want it to be effective as possibl, but yet still affordable to run...ive only got so much..
You need to take it every day, and don't miss days. Yes, .5mg ed will work for most. If your gyno prone you might need 1mg ed to bring estrogen levels down to normal.
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While practically similar compounds in structure, few people ever really consider Clomid and Nolva to be similar. Its not just a common myth in steroid circles, but even in the medical community. This misconception originates from their completely different uses. Nolvadex is most commonly used for the treatment of breast cancer in women, while clomid is generally considered a fertility aid. In bodybuilding circles, from day one, clomid has generally been used as post-cycle therapy and Nolvadex as an anti-estrogen.
But as I intend to demonstrate this is in essence the same. I believe the myth to have originated because Nolva is clearly a more powerful anti-estrogen, and the people selling clomid needed another angle to sell the stuff, so it was mostly used as a post-cycle aid. But few users really understand how clomid (and also Nolvadex, logically) works to bring back natural testosterone in the body after the conclusion of a cycle of androgenic anabolic steroids. After a cycle is over, the level of androgens in the body drop drastically. The body compensates with an overproduction of estrogen to keep steroid levels up. Estrogen as well inhibits the production of natural testosterone, and in the period between the return of natural testosterone and the end of a cycle, a lot of mass is lost. So its in everybody's best interest to bring back natural test as soon as humanly possible. Clomid and Nolvadex will reduce the post-cycle estrogen, so that a steroid deficiency is constated and the hypothalamus is stimulated to regenerate natural testosterone production in the body. That's basically how the mechanism works, nothing more, nothing less.
Both compounds are structurally alike, classified as triphenylethylenes. Nolvadex is clearly the stronger component of the two as it can achieve better results in decreasing overall estrogen with 20-40 mg a day, than clomid can in doses of 100-150 mg a day. A noteworthy difference. Triphenylethylenes are very mild estrogens that do not exert a lot, if any activity at the estrogen receptor, but are still highly attracted to it. As such they will occupy the receptor and keep it from binding estrogens. This means they do not actively work to reduce estrogen in the body like Proviron, Viratase or arimidex would (by competing for the aromatase enzyme), but that it blocks the receptor so that any estrogen in the body is basically inert, because it has no receptor to bind to.
Your right I messed that up my bad
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would 1 mg arimi eod work ?? i was told that .5 mg eod would be sufficient.. but i want it to be effective as possibl, but yet still affordable to run...ive only got so much..
Start with the lowest possible dose & then if that doesn't work add a little more. I've usually run 0.5mg every Monday, Wednesday, & Friday without any problems.
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While practically similar compounds in structure, few people ever really consider Clomid and Nolva to be similar. Its not just a common myth in steroid circles, but even in the medical community. This misconception originates from their completely different uses. Nolvadex is most commonly used for the treatment of breast cancer in women, while clomid is generally considered a fertility aid. In bodybuilding circles, from day one, clomid has generally been used as post-cycle therapy and Nolvadex as an anti-estrogen.
But as I intend to demonstrate this is in essence the same. I believe the myth to have originated because Nolva is clearly a more powerful anti-estrogen, and the people selling clomid needed another angle to sell the stuff, so it was mostly used as a post-cycle aid. But few users really understand how clomid (and also Nolvadex, logically) works to bring back natural testosterone in the body after the conclusion of a cycle of androgenic anabolic steroids. After a cycle is over, the level of androgens in the body drop drastically. The body compensates with an overproduction of estrogen to keep steroid levels up. Estrogen as well inhibits the production of natural testosterone, and in the period between the return of natural testosterone and the end of a cycle, a lot of mass is lost. So its in everybody's best interest to bring back natural test as soon as humanly possible. Clomid and Nolvadex will reduce the post-cycle estrogen, so that a steroid deficiency is constated and the hypothalamus is stimulated to regenerate natural testosterone production in the body. That's basically how the mechanism works, nothing more, nothing less.
Both compounds are structurally alike, classified as triphenylethylenes. Nolvadex is clearly the stronger component of the two as it can achieve better results in decreasing overall estrogen with 20-40 mg a day, than clomid can in doses of 100-150 mg a day. A noteworthy difference. Triphenylethylenes are very mild estrogens that do not exert a lot, if any activity at the estrogen receptor, but are still highly attracted to it. As such they will occupy the receptor and keep it from binding estrogens. This means they do not actively work to reduce estrogen in the body like Proviron, Viratase or arimidex would (by competing for the aromatase enzyme), but that it blocks the receptor so that any estrogen in the body is basically inert, because it has no receptor to bind to.
Your right I messed that up my bad
LMAO bro I read all that and then when I got to the end you agreed with me. Good stuff.
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yeah I was definetley mixed up lol I read what I wrote in the begining and the only thing I can come up with is maybe my blood sugar was low ;D
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Start with the lowest possible dose & then if that doesn't work add a little more. I've usually run 0.5mg every Monday, Wednesday, & Friday without any problems.
I can get away with .25mg every mon/wed/fri of Arimidex, going up to .5mg didn't do anything for me.
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I can get away with .25mg every mon/wed/fri of Arimidex, going up to .5mg didn't do anything for me.
Heres the thing bro you say mon wed and fri but its not specific days its every other day your body doesn't know what day it is it just gets used to a schedule remember arimedex is not active in your system for long I would probably run it either .25 every day or .5 every other like rimbaud said.
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Heres the thing bro you say mon wed and fri but its not specific days its every other day your body doesn't know what day it is it just gets used to a schedule remember arimedex is not active in your system for long I would probably run it either .25 every day or .5 every other like rimbaud said.
Your blood sugar is low again Slin...
Rim said mon, wed, friday as well...
Why only 3 days a week and not EOD guys? Just because that does it for you so no need for the typical EOD format?
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That just works for me. I inject my test on Thursday and Sunday is (most likely) the lowest peak in test levels so I've found it's not needed. I don't have a huge problem with aromitzation so it's just a personal thing. But I usually recommend the EOD method for people who are trying it out since you need to know how you react to it and experiment to see what you can get away with.
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Well then I think Rim is wrong and you should go every other day
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Well then I think Rim is wrong and you should go every other day
Why is he necessarily wrong? Aromitzation is heavily individual dependent and if it works for him then it works for him, it's not really wrong.
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Well then I think Rim is wrong and you should go every other day
This is all very dependent on the individual. It may take several cycles to know how prone to gyno or other estrogen sides you really are, and this, too, can change with different compounds/cycles. For me, I am particularly gyno-prone, and so I must take in about 0.7mg arimidex every day, and I start this essentially on day 1 of the cycle. How did I arrive at 0.7mg? Lots of practice-- ;D
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The body compensates with an overproduction of estrogen to keep steroid levels up.
How so?
To my knowledge, males produce scant amounts of estrogen (in the form of estradiol) directly from the testes. In the normal functioning male (i.e. NOT the male coming off of a cycle of exogenous testosterone), estradiol production is in the order of approximately 39 uG/day from peripheral conversion of testosterone to estradiol, and only approximately 6 ug/day (about 15%) directly from the testes.
Also, in normally functioning males, when gonadotropin levels are elevated, the amount of estradiol secretion by the testes is actually increased. It does not seem true, then, to imply that during testosterone withdrawl, the body would somehow "compensate with an overproduction of estrogen to keep steroid levels up." The high estrogen levels seen during the post cycle period are almost purely due to the high amount of remaining circulating estrogens that are produced in the breakdown of the exogenous testosterone by the aromatase enzyme. This estrogen "hangover" is working unopposed, due to the complete shutdown of the HPT axis.
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How so?
To my knowledge, males produce scant amounts of estrogen (in the form of estradiol) directly from the testes. In the normal functioning male (i.e. NOT the male coming off of a cycle of exogenous testosterone), estradiol production is in the order of approximately 39 uG/day from peripheral conversion of testosterone to estradiol, and only approximately 6 ug/day (about 15%) directly from the testes.
Also, in normally functioning males, when gonadotropin levels are elevated, the amount of estradiol secretion by the testes is actually increased. It does not seem true, then, to imply that during testosterone withdrawl, the body would somehow "compensate with an overproduction of estrogen to keep steroid levels up." The high estrogen levels seen during the post cycle period are almost purely due to the high amount of remaining circulating estrogens that are produced in the breakdown of the exogenous testosterone by the aromatase enzyme. This estrogen "hangover" is working unopposed, due to the complete shutdown of the HPT axis.
My understanding is that the sources of estrogen in men are from the testes, the adrenal cortex, and in men with profound gynocomastia there can be very minimal secretion from breast tissue.
My understanding of the "estrogen overcompensation" is that it is more due to a "stress response"---the adrenals ramp up all corticoid steroid production, including cortisol and the gonadocorticoids with a preference for estrogen and cortisol. Basically there is an imbalance due to the excess testosterone being injected and the body tries to maintain homeostasis. This in turn can lead to gynocomastia, which can then stimulate even more estrogen production (in theory).
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Wow its nice to have two knowledgeable Doc's on board!
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So how about this then for a revised
600mg deca week 1-13
1200mg test week 1-13
50mg dianabol 1-5
hcg 5000 iu 14
clomid 13-17
arimedex eod 2-13 .25mg
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So how about this then for a revised
600mg deca week 1-13
1200mg test week 1-13
50mg dianabol 1-5
hcg 5000 iu 14
clomid 13-17
arimedex eod 2-13 .25mg
Things go better IMO if deca is stopped a couple wks before test
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Things go better IMO if deca is stopped a couple wks before test
Yes at least. That deca sticks around for ever. Which in one way makes it good cause you keep the benifit for a long time. People stop deca at the end of a cycle and they are like man "that was a good cycle, im still feeling stronger and bigger 2 months later". Then they wait another month or so and the lbs are still there(fat) but the strength is gone :-\ wonder what happened??
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so what if I stopped it at week 10 and ran the test through till week 13
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so what if I stopped it at week 10 and ran the test through till week 13
That would be ideal IMO.
8)
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So here it is I will bulk for a bit then rest one more time and bulk again right before cutting But my offseason will look like this
600mg Deca weeks 1-13
1350mg Test weeks 1-13
75mg dianabol week 1-5
nolvedex 50mg week 2-16
Hcg 700mg week 4-15
from what i have read... i think you might be better by upping the test, dropping down the deca a tad, and switching from dbol to anadrol...also, adding some proviron along side and saving the nolva for pct
what do you gusy think...arnoldjr..rimbau d..?? doesnt it make more sense that way..
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I agree about dropping the Deca dose some (300-400mg EW). However, I don't think proviron is necessary. Bulking & cutting are more diet then anything (note: the drugs play a part).
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I agree about dropping the Deca dose some (300-400mg EW). However, I don't think proviron is necessary. Bulking & cutting are more diet then anything (note: the drugs play a part).
i was thinking proviron for its anti-e and its ability to work synergistically with other compounds to imrpove gains...i believ it creates more androgen receptors...or it frees up more bound-t..so you have more free-t...i forget which one....but proviron is useless for anabolic benefits, UNLESS its stacked with something else...then it helps the other one out...and it increases the mitochondria's rate of fat oxidation as well...
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from what i have read... i think you might be better by upping the test, dropping down the deca a tad, and switching from dbol to anadrol...also, adding some proviron along side and saving the nolva for pct
what do you gusy think...arnoldjr..rimbau d..?? doesnt it make more sense that way..
Upping the test, no...if he can't get enough out of that much (1350mg/wk) then there is nothing that will work. 600mg/deca/wk, not a big deal.
However, I don't think proviron is necessary.
Agreed...one of the more worthless items IMO
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1350 mg, from my understanding, is a vey small dose for a serious competitor. everyone i have talked to, everything i have read, has indicated that the base of every solid mass building cycle is a large dose of test. and for a competitor...thats SEVERAL grams a week. at least...thats what they claim.
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1350 mg, from my understanding, is a vey small dose for a serious competitor. everyone i have talked to, everything i have read, has indicated that the base of every solid mass building cycle is a large dose of test. and for a competitor...thats SEVERAL grams a week. at least...thats what they claim.
Don't believe everything you read, especially when it comes to pros and their cycles.
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1350 mg, from my understanding, is a vey small dose for a serious competitor. everyone i have talked to, everything i have read, has indicated that the base of every solid mass building cycle is a large dose of test. and for a competitor...thats SEVERAL grams a week. at least...thats what they claim.
I have heard 2-2.5 grams test per week is an average pro type dose. About twice what I have ever tried. People talk about diminishing returns.... maybe, but for some people more = better.
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1350 mg, from my understanding, is a vey small dose for a serious competitor. everyone i have talked to, everything i have read, has indicated that the base of every solid mass building cycle is a large dose of test. and for a competitor...thats SEVERAL grams a week. at least...thats what they claim.
That may be, but I know for fact that there are top competitors that don't take that much test...I'm not speaking of pro's but top level national competitors. A friend of mine who's done nationals and USA's a couple times doesn't take more then 1g/wk of test...of course he is taking a chunk of other things on top of that.
My point was that 1350mg/wk/test will make someone grow and grow well...assuming everything else is right, i.e. stack, training, diet, etc.
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from what i have read... i think you might be better by upping the test, dropping down the deca a tad, and switching from dbol to anadrol...also, adding some proviron along side and saving the nolva for pct
what do you gusy think...arnoldjr..rimbau d..?? doesnt it make more sense that way..
Please jump off a cliff...
Thanks.
8)
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actually I am going to use pro v as my anti E it will also make you look much harder. but I dont believe that any more test is needed and actually my deca will be at 400 mg a week and I am a top level competitor