Author Topic: Offseason Bulker  (Read 4182 times)

Slintowin4424

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Offseason Bulker
« on: February 10, 2008, 07:55:13 PM »
So here it is I will bulk for a bit then rest one more time and bulk again right before cutting But my offseason will look like this

600mg Deca weeks 1-13
1350mg Test weeks 1-13
75mg dianabol week 1-5

nolvedex 50mg week 2-16
Hcg 700mg   week 4-15

4thAD

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Re: Offseason Bulker
« Reply #1 on: February 10, 2008, 09:03:46 PM »
run the HCG 500iu e3d. Stop 4 days before PCT, wich it looks like your doing.

Arnold jr

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Re: Offseason Bulker
« Reply #2 on: February 10, 2008, 09:05:11 PM »
If you're going to use something to combat estrogen, I'd prefer arimidex or letrozol...save nolva for PCT IMO.

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Re: Offseason Bulker
« Reply #3 on: February 10, 2008, 09:19:35 PM »
If you're going to use something to combat estrogen, I'd prefer arimidex or letrozol...save nolva for PCT IMO.

I completely agree with this. Sorry I didnt see that. adex or letro will knock out the estrogen fast and keep it at bay.

Rimbaud

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Re: Offseason Bulker
« Reply #4 on: February 11, 2008, 04:51:20 AM »
If you're going to use something to combat estrogen, I'd prefer arimidex or letrozol...save nolva for PCT IMO.

Agreed.

Slintowin4424

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Re: Offseason Bulker
« Reply #5 on: February 11, 2008, 07:33:43 AM »
Heres the problem my friends arim only fills up receptors leaving estrogen levels unable to bind but  still very high in your body once they clear then you have a problem all over again,  Letro is great but I use during season time I think nolvedex is more then adequate for during a cycle but I could be wrong

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Re: Offseason Bulker
« Reply #6 on: February 11, 2008, 08:07:07 AM »
I think you have nolva and adex confused bro. Arimidex works by blocking the aromatase enzyme, which is responsible for the production of estrogen. Therefore your body is not full of estrogens. Where Nolvadex, competes for the receptor site in breast tissue and binds to it. On 500mg ew of test arimidex will bring your estrogens down to about normal, unless your body  converts at a much higher level than normal.

1mg Arimidex ed = aprox 50% decrease in Estrogens = 58% increase in Testosterone = No change in gh = 18% decrease in IGF

candidate2025

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Re: Offseason Bulker
« Reply #7 on: February 11, 2008, 06:56:39 PM »
I think you have nolva and adex confused bro. Arimidex works by blocking the aromatase enzyme, which is responsible for the production of estrogen. Therefore your body is not full of estrogens. Where Nolvadex, competes for the receptor site in breast tissue and binds to it. On 500mg ew of test arimidex will bring your estrogens down to about normal, unless your body  converts at a much higher level than normal.

1mg Arimidex ed = aprox 50% decrease in Estrogens = 58% increase in Testosterone = No change in gh = 18% decrease in IGF
would 1 mg arimi eod  work ??   i was told that .5 mg eod would be sufficient..     but i want it to be effective as possibl, but yet still affordable to run...ive only got so much..
d[-_-]b actin all cool

4thAD

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Re: Offseason Bulker
« Reply #8 on: February 11, 2008, 07:48:58 PM »
would 1 mg arimi eod  work ??   i was told that .5 mg eod would be sufficient..     but i want it to be effective as possibl, but yet still affordable to run...ive only got so much..

You need to take it every day, and don't miss days. Yes, .5mg ed will work for most. If your gyno prone you might need 1mg ed to bring estrogen levels down to normal.

Slintowin4424

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Re: Offseason Bulker
« Reply #9 on: February 11, 2008, 11:06:10 PM »
While practically similar compounds in structure, few people ever really consider Clomid and Nolva to be similar. Its not just a common myth in steroid circles, but even in the medical community. This misconception originates from their completely different uses. Nolvadex is most commonly used for the treatment of breast cancer in women, while clomid is generally considered a fertility aid. In bodybuilding circles, from day one, clomid has generally been used as post-cycle therapy and Nolvadex as an anti-estrogen.

But as I intend to demonstrate this is in essence the same. I believe the myth to have originated because Nolva is clearly a more powerful anti-estrogen, and the people selling clomid needed another angle to sell the stuff, so it was mostly used as a post-cycle aid. But few users really understand how clomid (and also Nolvadex, logically) works to bring back natural testosterone in the body after the conclusion of a cycle of androgenic anabolic steroids. After a cycle is over, the level of androgens in the body drop drastically. The body compensates with an overproduction of estrogen to keep steroid levels up. Estrogen as well inhibits the production of natural testosterone, and in the period between the return of natural testosterone and the end of a cycle, a lot of mass is lost. So its in everybody's best interest to bring back natural test as soon as humanly possible. Clomid and Nolvadex will reduce the post-cycle estrogen, so that a steroid deficiency is constated and the hypothalamus is stimulated to regenerate natural testosterone production in the body. That's basically how the mechanism works, nothing more, nothing less.

Both compounds are structurally alike, classified as triphenylethylenes. Nolvadex is clearly the stronger component of the two as it can achieve better results in decreasing overall estrogen with 20-40 mg a day, than clomid can in doses of 100-150 mg a day. A noteworthy difference. Triphenylethylenes are very mild estrogens that do not exert a lot, if any activity at the estrogen receptor, but are still highly attracted to it. As such they will occupy the receptor and keep it from binding estrogens. This means they do not actively work to reduce estrogen in the body like Proviron, Viratase or arimidex would (by competing for the aromatase enzyme), but that it blocks the receptor so that any estrogen in the body is basically inert, because it has no receptor to bind to.


Your right I messed that up my bad

Rimbaud

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Re: Offseason Bulker
« Reply #10 on: February 12, 2008, 04:49:26 AM »
would 1 mg arimi eod  work ??   i was told that .5 mg eod would be sufficient..     but i want it to be effective as possibl, but yet still affordable to run...ive only got so much..

Start with the lowest possible dose & then if that doesn't work add a little more. I've usually run 0.5mg every Monday, Wednesday, & Friday without any problems.

4thAD

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Re: Offseason Bulker
« Reply #11 on: February 12, 2008, 09:37:27 AM »
While practically similar compounds in structure, few people ever really consider Clomid and Nolva to be similar. Its not just a common myth in steroid circles, but even in the medical community. This misconception originates from their completely different uses. Nolvadex is most commonly used for the treatment of breast cancer in women, while clomid is generally considered a fertility aid. In bodybuilding circles, from day one, clomid has generally been used as post-cycle therapy and Nolvadex as an anti-estrogen.

But as I intend to demonstrate this is in essence the same. I believe the myth to have originated because Nolva is clearly a more powerful anti-estrogen, and the people selling clomid needed another angle to sell the stuff, so it was mostly used as a post-cycle aid. But few users really understand how clomid (and also Nolvadex, logically) works to bring back natural testosterone in the body after the conclusion of a cycle of androgenic anabolic steroids. After a cycle is over, the level of androgens in the body drop drastically. The body compensates with an overproduction of estrogen to keep steroid levels up. Estrogen as well inhibits the production of natural testosterone, and in the period between the return of natural testosterone and the end of a cycle, a lot of mass is lost. So its in everybody's best interest to bring back natural test as soon as humanly possible. Clomid and Nolvadex will reduce the post-cycle estrogen, so that a steroid deficiency is constated and the hypothalamus is stimulated to regenerate natural testosterone production in the body. That's basically how the mechanism works, nothing more, nothing less.

Both compounds are structurally alike, classified as triphenylethylenes. Nolvadex is clearly the stronger component of the two as it can achieve better results in decreasing overall estrogen with 20-40 mg a day, than clomid can in doses of 100-150 mg a day. A noteworthy difference. Triphenylethylenes are very mild estrogens that do not exert a lot, if any activity at the estrogen receptor, but are still highly attracted to it. As such they will occupy the receptor and keep it from binding estrogens. This means they do not actively work to reduce estrogen in the body like Proviron, Viratase or arimidex would (by competing for the aromatase enzyme), but that it blocks the receptor so that any estrogen in the body is basically inert, because it has no receptor to bind to.


Your right I messed that up my bad

LMAO bro I read all that and then when I got to the end you agreed with me. Good stuff.

Slintowin4424

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Re: Offseason Bulker
« Reply #12 on: February 12, 2008, 01:38:58 PM »
yeah I was definetley mixed up lol I read what I wrote in the begining and the only thing I can come up with is maybe my blood sugar was low   ;D

Emmortal

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Re: Offseason Bulker
« Reply #13 on: February 12, 2008, 02:07:44 PM »
Start with the lowest possible dose & then if that doesn't work add a little more. I've usually run 0.5mg every Monday, Wednesday, & Friday without any problems.

I can get away with .25mg every mon/wed/fri of Arimidex, going up to .5mg didn't do anything for me.

Slintowin4424

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Re: Offseason Bulker
« Reply #14 on: February 12, 2008, 04:54:42 PM »
I can get away with .25mg every mon/wed/fri of Arimidex, going up to .5mg didn't do anything for me.

Heres the thing bro you say mon wed and fri  but its not specific days its every other day your body doesn't know what day it is it just gets used to a schedule remember arimedex is not active in your system for long I would probably run it  either .25 every day or .5 every other like rimbaud said.

busyB

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Re: Offseason Bulker
« Reply #15 on: February 12, 2008, 04:58:38 PM »
Heres the thing bro you say mon wed and fri  but its not specific days its every other day your body doesn't know what day it is it just gets used to a schedule remember arimedex is not active in your system for long I would probably run it  either .25 every day or .5 every other like rimbaud said.

Your blood sugar is low again Slin...

Rim said mon, wed, friday as well...

Why only 3 days a week and not EOD guys? Just because that does it for you so no need for the typical EOD format?


Emmortal

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Re: Offseason Bulker
« Reply #16 on: February 12, 2008, 05:13:29 PM »
That just works for me.  I inject my test on Thursday and Sunday is (most likely) the lowest peak in test levels so I've found it's not needed.  I don't have a huge problem with aromitzation so it's just a personal thing.  But I usually recommend the EOD method for people who are trying it out since you need to know how you react to it and experiment to see what you can get away with.

Slintowin4424

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Re: Offseason Bulker
« Reply #17 on: February 12, 2008, 11:17:24 PM »
Well then I think Rim is wrong and you should go every other day

Emmortal

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Re: Offseason Bulker
« Reply #18 on: February 13, 2008, 12:23:46 AM »
Well then I think Rim is wrong and you should go every other day

Why is he necessarily wrong?  Aromitzation is heavily individual dependent and if it works for him then it works for him, it's not really wrong.

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Re: Offseason Bulker
« Reply #19 on: February 13, 2008, 05:12:59 AM »
Well then I think Rim is wrong and you should go every other day

This is all very dependent on the individual.  It may take several cycles to know how prone to gyno or other estrogen sides you really are, and this, too, can change with different compounds/cycles.  For me, I am particularly gyno-prone, and so I must take in about 0.7mg arimidex every day, and I start this essentially on day 1 of the cycle.  How did I arrive at 0.7mg?  Lots of practice-- ;D

freakfestMD

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Re: Offseason Bulker
« Reply #20 on: February 13, 2008, 05:41:48 AM »

The body compensates with an overproduction of estrogen to keep steroid levels up.


How so?

To my knowledge, males produce scant amounts of estrogen (in the form of estradiol) directly from the testes.  In the normal functioning male (i.e. NOT the male coming off of a cycle of exogenous testosterone), estradiol production is in the order of approximately 39 uG/day from peripheral conversion of testosterone to estradiol, and only approximately 6 ug/day (about 15%) directly from the testes. 

Also, in normally functioning males, when gonadotropin levels are elevated, the amount of estradiol secretion by the testes is actually increased.  It does not seem true, then, to imply that during testosterone withdrawl, the body would somehow "compensate with an overproduction of estrogen to keep steroid levels up."   The high estrogen levels seen during the post cycle period are almost purely due to the high amount of remaining circulating estrogens that are produced in the breakdown of the exogenous testosterone by the aromatase enzyme.  This estrogen "hangover" is working unopposed, due to the complete shutdown of the HPT axis.

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Re: Offseason Bulker
« Reply #21 on: February 13, 2008, 07:34:05 AM »
How so?

To my knowledge, males produce scant amounts of estrogen (in the form of estradiol) directly from the testes.  In the normal functioning male (i.e. NOT the male coming off of a cycle of exogenous testosterone), estradiol production is in the order of approximately 39 uG/day from peripheral conversion of testosterone to estradiol, and only approximately 6 ug/day (about 15%) directly from the testes. 

Also, in normally functioning males, when gonadotropin levels are elevated, the amount of estradiol secretion by the testes is actually increased.  It does not seem true, then, to imply that during testosterone withdrawl, the body would somehow "compensate with an overproduction of estrogen to keep steroid levels up."   The high estrogen levels seen during the post cycle period are almost purely due to the high amount of remaining circulating estrogens that are produced in the breakdown of the exogenous testosterone by the aromatase enzyme.  This estrogen "hangover" is working unopposed, due to the complete shutdown of the HPT axis.

My understanding is that the sources of estrogen in men are from the testes, the adrenal cortex, and in men with profound gynocomastia there can be very minimal secretion from breast tissue. 

My understanding of the "estrogen overcompensation" is that it is more due to a "stress response"---the adrenals ramp up all corticoid steroid production, including cortisol and the gonadocorticoids with a preference for estrogen and cortisol.  Basically there is an imbalance due to the excess testosterone being injected and the body tries to maintain homeostasis.  This in turn can lead to gynocomastia, which can then stimulate even more estrogen production (in theory).

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Re: Offseason Bulker
« Reply #22 on: February 13, 2008, 08:23:40 AM »
Wow its nice to have two knowledgeable Doc's on board!

Slintowin4424

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Re: Offseason Bulker
« Reply #23 on: February 20, 2008, 08:09:45 PM »
So how about this then for a revised

600mg deca week 1-13
1200mg test week 1-13
50mg dianabol 1-5

hcg 5000 iu 14
clomid 13-17

arimedex eod 2-13 .25mg

Arnold jr

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Re: Offseason Bulker
« Reply #24 on: February 20, 2008, 09:04:07 PM »
So how about this then for a revised

600mg deca week 1-13
1200mg test week 1-13
50mg dianabol 1-5

hcg 5000 iu 14
clomid 13-17

arimedex eod 2-13 .25mg
Things go better IMO if deca is stopped a couple wks before test