Getbig Bodybuilding, Figure and Fitness Forums
Getbig Main Boards => Politics and Political Issues Board => Topic started by: Eyeball Chambers on October 30, 2008, 08:48:08 PM
-
Abortion outweighs many issues for many people, how bad would a candidate need to be for the abortion voters to put that issue on the back burner?
???
-
Hypothetical:
If Bristol Palin ( ;D) ran against a good candidate in 2012 who was pro choice, would the religious right endorse and vote for Bristol just because she was pro life? ???
-
Seriously....
Anyone?
-
Hypothetical:
If Bristol Palin ( ;D) ran against a good candidate in 2012 who was pro choice, would the religious right endorse and vote for Bristol just because she was pro life? ???
Probably. These people have tunnel vision. Nothing else matters to them. :(
-
For what it's worth it blows my mind that people will focus on that as their number one issue as opposed to all the important shit out there.
-
Abortion outweighs many issues for many people, how bad would a candidate need to be for the abortion voters to put that issue on the back burner?
???
No.
It's the only thing they care about. Any candidate, regardless of platform, is fine with them as long as they are anti-abortion.
Invade the world, spend all the money, go into debt, grow the govt, create a new branch of Govt, tap cell phones, lose your home or single wide and that's fine because abortion is way more important then shrinking freedom and growing debt.
-
the poor religious republicans...
they give 10% of their $ to a business called a church each week already.
they have no problem letting the rich keep more.
-
the poor religious republicans...
they give 10% of their $ to a business called a church each week already.
they have no problem letting the rich keep more.
You're absolutely right, the church my cousin and her family (who votes only on ''morality'' issues) belong to is run like a business. It's a new church with a giant congregation. They have billboards all over town.
It seems like the ''born again'' types are mainly the ones who do this...
-
A guy I work with is like that. He stated he was for McCain because of his moral values on abortion. That shit drives me nuts.
-
No.
It's the only thing they care about. Any candidate, regardless of platform, is fine with them as long as they are anti-abortion.
Invade the world, spend all the money, go into debt, grow the govt, create a new branch of Govt, tap cell phones, lose your home or single wide and that's fine because abortion is way more important then shrinking freedom and growing debt.
Yes, correct. Nation can fall apart around you, killing people worldwide is fine, but must not allow a 13 year old rape victim to end a pregnancy. :)
-
Yes, correct. Nation can fall apart around you, killing people worldwide is fine, but must not allow a 13 year old rape victim to end a pregnancy. :)
Those people don't really matter to Americans.
You live in the Carrib where chicks have to fight for 'milk money'. :) We have welfare and might have a lower rate of minority abortions than people assume because people end up getting a check. America actually has families that have been on welfare since the 50's, they just keep having babies... broke or not because it's considered a right and way out of mom's house in the hood. :)
-
Those people don't really matter to Americans.
You live in the Carrib where chicks have to fight for 'milk money'. :) We have welfare and might have a lower rate of minority abortions than people assume because people end up getting a check. America actually has families that have been on welfare since the 50's, they just keep having babies... broke or not because it's considered a right and way out of mom's house in the hood. :)
I know, when I lived there and the UK I met people whom welfare was a "way of life" like handed down almost.
My island abortion is illegal, always has been, except in cases of mothers life in danger. Many more things are illegal here, gambling etc - we are extremely religious as a whole, like massively. People would flip if they said to legalize abortion, wouldn't occur. Culture is *very* different though, so it's a whole different ballgame.
-
For what it's worth it blows my mind that people will focus on that as their number one issue as opposed to all the important shit out there.
Totally agree.
-
Rob, Spoken like someone who went to Catholic school and like most Catholics never read the bible.
Jag, translation to your answer....."If a someone gets knocked up and can't afford the kid....kill it". Am I close on that one Judy?
-
Rob, Spoken like someone who went to Catholic school and like most Catholics never read the bible.
Jag, translation to your answer....."If a someone gets knocked up and can't afford the kid....kill it". Am I close on that one Judy?
not even, ...but at least you're consistent in your ignorance. :)
-
For what it's worth it blows my mind that people will focus on that as their number one issue as opposed to all the important shit out there.
Here in Cali, people care more about prop 8 (Gay Marriage) than any other issue or election.
Amazing...
-
IMO, abortion is wrong.
It's a very important issue but not the one and only issue.
Rob, as far as those that give 10 percent of their income to a "business" called a church - well, it's like any other charity isn't it?
And more importantly it's their CHOICE - not the governments.
Weird. I'd think someone that's voting Libertarian (Bob Barr) would understand that.
-
non issue
-
Better to abort a kid than let it grow up on welfare.... right Joe?
-
Here in Cali, people care more about prop 8 (Gay Marriage) than any other issue or election.
Amazing...
Because families don't want their kids exposed to that shit.
-
And more importantly it's their CHOICE - not the governments.
Exactly. Why it's called PRO CHOICE. Don't like abortion? Don't have one, but don't tell some women what she can do with her own body. Just as you said, government should not dictate such things, including what we choose to do with our own body, and yes, the mothers rights trump that of the fetus. Every day, every time.
-
Exactly. Why it's called PRO CHOICE. the male who played an integral role in fertilization has no choice? what about the child...no choice?
Don't like abortion? Don't have one, horrible logic which makes zero sense...not talking about not watching a tv show
but don't tell some women what she can do with her own body. the body of the child?
Just as you said, government should not dictate such things, including what we choose to do with our own body, should they allow us free reign in regards to what we do with anothers body?
and yes, the mothers rights trump that of the fetus. so you believe a fetus has rights? Every day, every time.
-
Exactly. Why it's called PRO CHOICE. Don't like abortion? Don't have one, but don't tell some women what she can do with her own body. Just as you said, government should not dictate such things, including what we choose to do with our own body, and yes, the mothers rights trump that of the fetus. Every day, every time.
Then there should be blanket executions of murderers and rapists. If the life of an innocent baby is not worth a damn then it sure isn't worth keeping the shit of society alive. Can we stick a knife in the back of Kevin Cooper's head?
-
Here in Cali, people care more about prop 8 (Gay Marriage) than any other issue or election.
Amazing...
You see them on intersections with their yellow yes on 8 signs?
-
First, learn how to quote. It's not rocket science.
" the male who played an integral role in fertilization has no choice? what about the child...no choice?"
None, nadda, zip.
"horrible logic which makes zero sense"
Perfectly logical.
", should they allow us free reign in regards to what we do with anothers body?"
Talk about goofy faulty logic...
"so you believe a fetus has rights?"
Nope. For me, if it's in my body, attached to my body, growing in my body, my rights trump any others period. Once outside my body/does not rely on my body directly for survival, it has rights as a living human being. You cant try and twist it anyway you want, use 4th grader semantics, etc, it will not change.
I would like to see more funds and effort into reducing pregnancy rates, which would lead to less abortions. Funds for education (which correlates well to reduced unwanted teen pregnancy rates) and other measures to reduce unwanted pregnancy which = less abortion. These measures are exactly what has been cut back on by the current anti abortion administration. I would like to see anyone who is anti abortion forced to adopt those kids sitting in adoption homes unwanted. How many have YOU personally adopted while telling women they have to keep them? My guess, like 99.9% of anti abortion types, would be none.
All talk from your comp, no actual personal work or experience helping to prevent pregnancy, etc, etc. I at least have done some volunteer work in clinics and such.
I would like to see less unwanted pregnancies, and funds and effort put to that end, which will = less abortions. We have far too many of them in this country. However, at the end of the day, the womens rights to her own body trump all others.
-
Brink, I like you man but people know how babies are made and are still dumb enough to have rampant unprotected sex. If they get pregnant, that is there fault. They know that condoms are highly effective and free clinics hand out contraception if I'm not mistaken. In the end, the doctors and mothers will have to live with their actions, both here and heaven if you believe in it.
Like I've said, if we are going to execute babies we need to execute all the violent shit rotting in jail.
Oh, we should have soldiers go spit on abortion docs and scream "Baby killers"...that would be fun to watch. ;D
-
First, learn how to quote. It's not rocket science.
Nope. For me, if it's in my body, attached to my body, growing in my body, my rights trump any others period. Once outside my body/does not rely on my body directly for survival, it has rights as a living human being. You cant try and twist it anyway you want, use 4th grader semantics, etc, it will not change.
I would like to see more funds and effort into reducing pregnancy rates, which would lead to less abortions. Funds for education (which correlates well to reduced unwanted teen pregnancy rates) and other measures to reduce unwanted pregnancy which = less abortion. These measures are exactly what has been cut back on by the current anti abortion administration. I would like to see anyone who is anti abortion forced to adopt those kids sitting in adoption homes unwanted. How many have YOU personally adopted while telling women they have to keep them? My guess, like 99.9% of anti abortion types, would be none.
All talk from your comp, no actual personal work or experience helping to prevent pregnancy, etc, etc. I at least have done some volunteer work in clinics and such.
I would like to see less unwanted pregnancies, and funds and effort put to that end, which will = less abortions. We have far too many of them in this country. However, at the end of the day, the womens rights to her own body trump all others.
First, I know how to quote....my responses were in bold unlike that cluttered mess of shit you just posted!
"Don't like abortion don't have one" You believe this is a logical statement? Seek help!
You speak of personal volunteer work (should I mention the years of charity work I've done, does it make me a more credible person). You make assumptions about my life...which you have no clue about. Does volunteer work truly mean something to you, or is it merely a feather in your cap? You chastise me for not doing work to prevent pregnancy. I'll worry about educating my own children and put my energy into them, it's not my responsiblity to educate anyone else.
Have I adopted? No
Have you?
Do you know if I'm adopted?
Do you know what it's like lving in an orphanage? I can tell you it's better than not getting a chance in the first place.
Do you know what it's like on this side of the fence?
Are you a father? You want to waste funds to compensate for bad parenting, irresponsiblity, poor morals....I'd rather see those funds go towards research for juvenile diabetes, autism research, and childhood cancer.
From my perspective, it seems like you are very out of touch with this issue and have zero personal experience to draw from. You are an unmarried 40+ year old man with no children correct?
We have very different opinions.... but until you know my personal history, adopt a child, or father a child....get off your soapbox!
-
I would like to see anyone who is anti abortion forced to adopt those kids sitting in adoption homes unwanted. How many have YOU personally adopted while telling women they have to keep them? My guess, like 99.9% of anti abortion types, would be none.
Exactly, this is a point I make over and over. Never in my life have I met an anti-abortion type who has actually taken in a kid or adopted an unwanted one. They just want to restrict rights while doing nothing to help unwanted kids. Talk is cheap, act if they care that much, if not they don't.
-
Exactly, this is a point I make over and over. Never in my life have I met an anti-abortion type who has actually taken in a kid or adopted an unwanted one. They just want to restrict rights while doing nothing to help unwanted kids. Talk is cheap, act if they care that much, if not they don't.
Maybe they have children of their own who they are financially responsible for.
Maybe they can't afford the 10-40k costs of just getting a child, let alone the additional costs of raising another child and providing another child with a college education.
-
A number of you seem very concerned for what you label "unwanted kids".
If you truly care so much....
Why don't you step up to the plate and make a difference in their lives instead of scolding others.
-
A number of you seem very concerned for what you label "unwanted kids".
If you truly care so much....
Why don't you step up to the plate and make a difference in their lives instead of scolding others.
I agree entirely, and is why I have done that - not just preach to others how to live.
Maybe they have children of their own who they are financially responsible for.
Maybe they can't afford the 10-40k costs of just getting a child, let alone the additional costs of raising another child and providing another child with a college education.
So, basically whichever way it's phrased they don't want to step up to the plate and raise the kid either. Fair anough, it's a lot of work. At least be honest about it.
-
A number of you seem very concerned for what you label "unwanted kids".
If you truly care so much....
Why don't you step up to the plate and make a difference in their lives instead of scolding others.
They'd rather be "cool" and adopt from other countries like the idiot celebs. If these celebs were smart they'd adopt kids from here who need homes but that isn't really news-worthy.
-
They'd rather be "cool" and adopt from other countries like the idiot celebs. If these celebs were smart they'd adopt kids from here who need homes but that isn't really news-worthy.
It's not that Chinese or Russian babies are trendy. Here's the real problem; if you adopt some trailer or ghetto chick's baby, at some magical point you're gonna see her ass again either wanting money or the kid back after she's gotten out of re-hab. That chinese skank ain't ever gonna leave the country or disrupt your life.
Same goes with giving up a kid for adoption. They're gonna end up finding your ass on the internet and either wanting the love, money or attention you couldn't give at that particular age. You're gonna have to explain that new teenager or adult to the younger kids, spouse or whoever.
People who want to make abortion illegal should be willing to take the unwanted children. Don't play God in a half-assed manner or pretend the responsibility for what happens stops after your vote.
-
Why don't you step up to the plate and make a difference in their lives instead of scolding others.
a much more effective way to prevent abortions is to prevent unwanted pregnancies. start handing out condoms. use peer pressure to make sure every boy uses them.
even if Roe v Wade is overturned, abortion will never be illegal in every state of the union. the rich will always be able to get them. the poor will turn to back-alley abortions like they did prior to Roe v Wade. the leaders of the conservative movement know this. but rather than pursuing real and practical ways to reduce the number of abortions, they use the subject to rally their base.
-
a much more effective way to prevent abortions is to prevent unwanted pregnancies. start handing out condoms. use peer pressure to make sure every boy uses them.
It's a very solid theory, but we all know in simplest terms it's just not happening. Even with the looming threat of hiv, stds, and unwanted pregnancy people seem to disregard common sense + responsibility and just throw caution to the wind. Just look at the consistent rise in statistics every year.
-
a much more effective way to prevent abortions is to prevent unwanted pregnancies. start handing out condoms. use peer pressure to make sure every boy uses them.
even if Roe v Wade is overturned, abortion will never be illegal in every state of the union. the rich will always be able to get them. the poor will turn to back-alley abortions like they did prior to Roe v Wade. the leaders of the conservative movement know this. but rather than pursuing real and practical ways to reduce the number of abortions, they use the subject to rally their base.
Changing welfare regulations is the only way to exert the social pressure that would slow unwanted pregnancies.
-
even if Roe v Wade is overturned, abortion will never be illegal in every state of the union. the rich will always be able to get them. the poor will turn to back-alley abortions like they did prior to Roe v Wade. the leaders of the conservative movement know this. but rather than pursuing real and practical ways to reduce the number of abortions, they use the subject to rally their base.
Very well said.
-
I agree entirely, and is why I have done that - not just preach to others how to live.
So, basically whichever way it's phrased they don't want to step up to the plate and raise the kid either. Fair anough, it's a lot of work. At least be honest about it.
Being pro life is no more about preaching to others about how to live than supporting any other law that prevents killing. It's about protecting the baby and giving him or her the same protection we give a baby that comes through the womb.
-
Being pro life is no more about preaching to others about how to live than supporting any other law that prevents killing. It's about protecting the baby and giving him or her the same protection we give a baby that comes through the womb.
Yes I know lol.
Being "pro life" is about preaching to others, while making damn sure they won't raise any those babies themself. Also not facing any realistic facts, like it can't be stopped anyway, so why not work on a realistic solution. If someone is pro life, and doesn't support killing [which I wish all ppl felt], I hope they are anti-death penalty and/or anti war and want to try and change the fact their tax money funds mass scale killing, hope they are not picking and choosing whose lives they value. :)
-
Changing welfare regulations is the only way to exert the social pressure that would slow unwanted pregnancies.
evidence please. lots of unwanted (which usually mean teenage) pregnancies in middle class and upper class families
Reagan's Welfare Queen (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Welfare_queen) was a fallacy in the 1980s and even more of a fallacy today.
the rules to receive welfare changed dramatically under the Clinton admin. AFDC was eliminated in 1996, replaced with TANF (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Temporary_Assistance_for_Needy_Families)
-
Yes I know lol.
Being "pro life" is about preaching to others, while making damn sure they won't raise any those babies themself. Also not facing any realistic facts, like it can't be stopped anyway, so why not work on a realistic solution. If someone is pro life, and doesn't support killing [which I wish all ppl felt], I hope they are anti-death penalty and/or anti war and want to try and change the fact their tax money funds mass scale killing, hope they are not picking and choosing whose lives they value. :)
CQ how is it preaching to others if the focus is on protecting defenseless babies? Are we preaching to others when we tell them not to kill people?
-
evidence please. lots of unwanted (which usually mean teenage) pregnancies in middle class and upper class families
Reagan's Welfare Queen (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Welfare_queen) was a fallacy in the 1980s and even more of a fallacy today.
the rules to receive welfare changed dramatically under the Clinton admin. AFDC was eliminated in 1996, replaced with TANF (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Temporary_Assistance_for_Needy_Families)
The rate of whites getting off welfare was far higher than blacks. Many of the blacks ended up being shifted SSI/SSD. Not giving people money for having babies would change things a lot. As for the middle class, DD or DS popping in with a baby would hamper things financially to the point where people would start monitoring the kids, putting Norplant in arms or force feeding birth control pills on a daily basis.
-
CQ how is it preaching to others if the focus is on protecting defenseless babies? Are we preaching to others when we tell them not to kill people?
People want to help babies [which is great], help them. Donate money, foster, adopt, befriend some teen mom and help her out etc etc.... those I see as thing that make a difference. Preaching is words, the babies stuck in homes, the ones dying of starvation, words aren't helping them. There are provable ways to help - I note the anti-abortion crowd actually don't want to get their own hands dirty helping though. Never met one yet who actually walked the walk, I am sure some do, and they would have my utmost respect.
-
People want to help babies [which is great], help them. Donate money, foster, adopt, befriend some teen mom and help her out etc etc.... those I see as thing that make a difference. Preaching is words, the babies stuck in homes, the ones dying of starvation, words aren't helping them. There are provable ways to help - I note the anti-abortion crowd actually don't want to get their own hands dirty helping though. Never met one yet who actually walked the walk, I am sure some do, and they would have my utmost respect.
Words don't fill empty stomachs?
-
People want to help babies [which is great], help them. Donate money, foster, adopt, befriend some teen mom and help her out etc etc.... those I see as thing that make a difference. Preaching is words, the babies stuck in homes, the ones dying of starvation, words aren't helping them. There are provable ways to help - I note the anti-abortion crowd actually don't want to get their own hands dirty helping though. Never met one yet who actually walked the walk, I am sure some do, and they would have my utmost respect.
Can't you say the same thing about people who preach about locking up criminals? Those folks shouldn't be pro law enforcement unless they take in disadvantaged kids prone to crime, help people on parole, etc.
I understand your point about the need for people to actually help the community, and I agree with that. What I don't see is a connection between a person's pro life views and whether those people adopt or take in foster kids. The question is whether you believe abortion is murder. If you do, then whether or not you adopt doesn’t change the fact that abortion is murder (if that's your belief).
-
The rate of whites getting off welfare was far higher than blacks. Many of the blacks ended up being shifted SSI/SSD. Not giving people money for having babies would change things a lot. As for the middle class, DD or DS popping in with a baby would hamper things financially to the point where people would start monitoring the kids, putting Norplant in arms or force feeding birth control pills on a daily basis.
Welfares should be subject to forced sterilization.
Enough of this 'having 4 kids while on the dole' BS....
-
People want to help babies [which is great], help them. Donate money, foster, adopt, befriend some teen mom and help her out etc etc.... those I see as thing that make a difference. Preaching is words, the babies stuck in homes, the ones dying of starvation, words aren't helping them. There are provable ways to help - I note the anti-abortion crowd actually don't want to get their own hands dirty helping though. Never met one yet who actually walked the walk, I am sure some do, and they would have my utmost respect.
all the things you mentioned sound like it would involve some personal sacrifice and effort.
it's much easier to cluck around telling people what to do and then go home and relax
-
Exactly. Why it's called PRO CHOICE. Don't like abortion? Don't have one, but don't tell some women what she can do with her own body. Just as you said, government should not dictate such things, including what we choose to do with our own body, and yes, the mothers rights trump that of the fetus. Every day, every time.
I was talking about the choice of giving 10 percent of one's salary to a church - not abortion.
In respect to abortion it's, in my opinion, the murder of an innocent life. The baby just doesn't miraculously change from inanimate tissue to that of a living being like some Frankenbaby. Since when did committing the act of murder become an acceptable method of birth control because someone wants to enjoy the adult choice of sex but not accept of adult responsibility of parenthood? Besides, the child can always be put up for adoption.
Tell me, BrinkZone, do you have the right to carry out the murder of a man or woman simply because you choose to?
And in case you're wondering I'm opposed to the death penalty too.
-
yea lets over turn Roe vs. wade..then get rid of welfare..talk about a serious spike in crime..you have people that can't support the kid in the first place so they want to abort.but they can't because bible beating Christians want to push there beliefs and ideals on them.so then what?they have the kid and give it up to adoption.how long would it take before we have orphanages that are as big as prison's full of unwanted children.
-
yea lets over turn Roe vs. wade..then get rid of welfare..talk about a serious spike in crime..you have people that can't support the kid in the first place so they want to abort.but they can't because bible beating Christians want to push there beliefs and ideals on them.so then what?they have the kid and give it up to adoption.how long would it take before we have orphanages that are as big as prison's full of unwanted children.
So it's only Christians that respect the sanctity of innocent life?
Condoms work.
-
First, learn how to quote. It's not rocket science.
" the male who played an integral role in fertilization has no choice? what about the child...no choice?"
None, nadda, zip.
"horrible logic which makes zero sense"
Perfectly logical.
", should they allow us free reign in regards to what we do with anothers body?"
Talk about goofy faulty logic...
"so you believe a fetus has rights?"
Nope. For me, if it's in my body, attached to my body, growing in my body, my rights trump any others period. Once outside my body/does not rely on my body directly for survival, it has rights as a living human being. You cant try and twist it anyway you want, use 4th grader semantics, etc, it will not change.
I would like to see more funds and effort into reducing pregnancy rates, which would lead to less abortions. Funds for education (which correlates well to reduced unwanted teen pregnancy rates) and other measures to reduce unwanted pregnancy which = less abortion. These measures are exactly what has been cut back on by the current anti abortion administration. I would like to see anyone who is anti abortion forced to adopt those kids sitting in adoption homes unwanted. How many have YOU personally adopted while telling women they have to keep them? My guess, like 99.9% of anti abortion types, would be none.
All talk from your comp, no actual personal work or experience helping to prevent pregnancy, etc, etc. I at least have done some volunteer work in clinics and such.
I would like to see less unwanted pregnancies, and funds and effort put to that end, which will = less abortions. We have far too many of them in this country. However, at the end of the day, the womens rights to her own body trump all others.
first of all, we've dumped an absolute ton of money into sex education and abstinence programs under the bush administration for our kids. does it work? i dont know. maybe. personally, i think its the parents responsibility, not the governments. i also think people have to stop bullshitting themselves too about this issue. condoms suck. kids learn that. we give the pill to teens. they dont always take it the way they should. you know why? they're fuckin stupid ass teenagers thats why. like ive said before and i'll say it again, as long as we have people who dont love eachother having sex, there will be tons of unwanted pregnancies. thats just the way it is. abortion is now an option. about 2 million girls a year are going to use that option. period. it not gonna change. Everyone knows how to use a fucking condom now ok? if your kid needs to be shown how to use it at school hes too fucking stupid to be having sex anyway.
i agree with you that idealogues do not belong in voters booths but for the posters on this board to try and insinuate that the idealogues are only on the right is plain stupid and outs those posters as idealogues themselves.
abortion isnt going anywhere so dont worry. the politicians from the left wont even pass laws to protect babies who survive abortion because they're scared of the slippery slope effect it will have on overturning roe v wade.
the one thing that really concerns me is our boys growing up in this country. they will grow up in a country where people who are against abortion are treated like lunatics, patted on the head like invalids and sent on their way. they grow up in a world where irresponsible sex is glorified in everything they see, hear, and read in our popular media. then when they get a girl pregnant and suggest an abortion (because they see 2 million girls a year doing it) they are called evil. i think the boys growing up in this country have a lot of confusion to sort through with regards to sexual morality.
-
yea lets over turn Roe vs. wade..then get rid of welfare..talk about a serious spike in crime..you have people that can't support the kid in the first place so they want to abort.but they can't because bible beating Christians want to push there beliefs and ideals on them.so then what?they have the kid and give it up to adoption.how long would it take before we have orphanages that are as big as prison's full of unwanted children.
that my friend is communist thinking at its finest.
-
that my friend is communist thinking at its finest.
how so? Mr 52 post come to a bodybuilding web site to talk abortion finger pointer.
-
Changing welfare regulations is the only way to exert the social pressure that would slow unwanted pregnancies.
I agree whole-heartedly. I genuinely feel bad for a baby that is aborted and babies in foster care. Poor people can get free condoms but they know the system pays per kid. I also think that both safe sex and abstinence need to be taught, which is one issue I disagree with Bush on. We teach about STDs but not about condoms (so I've heard) which I think is dumb. They need to pass out flyers to as many people as possible telling them what is up. I think free condoms is cheaper than more welfare and foster care but what do I know....
My problems is the twenty or so girls I met in college having multiple abortions because they can't keep their legs closed/take the pill/use a condom. To me that is wrong and irresponsible and we perpetuate that behavior because they know they can just go get another abortion. I honestly hope these women cannot have children when they are actually ready; you know...visit from the Karma Fairy.
-
Alot of welfares have the kids ONLY because of the increased payoff.
I'd bet very little of the $$$ handed to welfare mommas ever goes toward the good of the child.
-
the poor religious republicans...
they give 10% of their $ to a business called a church each week already.
they have no problem letting the rich keep more.
I was driving through seattle the other week and drove by numerous christian missions feeding homeless and sheltering them.
I missed all of the athiest missions tho. hmm guess I will have to look harder next time.
-
I was driving through seattle the other week and drove by numerous christian missions feeding homeless and sheltering them.
I missed all of the athiest missions tho. hmm guess I will have to look harder next time.
thats one way cults draw you in
-
I missed all of the athiest missions tho. hmm guess I will have to look harder next time.
you must really have blinders on to not recognize all the charitable organizations not affiliated with any church or religion.
-
how so? Mr 52 post come to a bodybuilding web site to talk abortion finger pointer.
huh?
-
how so? Mr 52 post come to a bodybuilding web site to talk abortion finger pointer.
if you read that post again and you dont think that it reeks of communism then there is no hope for you and may god have mercy on your soul.
-
Personally, I don't feel any law that prevents doctors from giving care to a failed abortion makes sense. If it comes out alive all bets are off but who knows what kind of brain damage it might have.
-
you must really have blinders on to not recognize all the charitable organizations not affiliated with any church or religion.
People see what they want, and willingly don't see things.
-
if you read that post again and you dont think that it reeks of communism then there is no hope for you and may god have mercy on your soul.
I don't fear what is non existent.there is no god.However I think u misinterpreted my post I was speaking hypothetically.
-
Alot of welfares have the kids ONLY because of the increased payoff.
I would have to agree, having lived in nations with welfare and one without. Here you can have 15 kids, you get the same amount as someone with 1 kid - nothing.
It's a whole different ballgame, we still have our tiny segment of teen moms etc, but statistically are well, well under nations with welfare and the attitude is different. My time living and interacting in the US and UK showed me a whole differing perspective.
-
I don't fear what is non existent.there is no god.However I think u misinterpreted my post I was speaking hypothetically.
i think you were quite clear in that post. you feel that our system would be overburdened by the aborted babies had they been allowed to live.
-
i think you were quite clear in that post. you feel that our system would be overburdened by the aborted babies had they been allowed to live.
and you didn't respond to the question.the fact is there are orphanages all over the country that are filled with kids that are not being adopted.My question was.How long would it take if roe vs. wade was overturned before these orphanages were the size of prisons filled with unwanted kids.
-
and you didn't respond to the question.the fact is there are orphanages all over the country that are filled with kids that are not being adopted.My question was.How long would it take if roe vs. wade was overturned before these orphanages were the size of prisons filled with unwanted kids.
right. you think abortion is imperative to maintaining the status quo. i understand that. there are other ways other than abortion you know . how about we change our behavior as individuals, families, communities and countries? then maybe we wont have to kill babies to maintain status quo. do you understand how dangerous your line if thinking is? what happens when we take it a step further? you know how much of a financial relief our health care system would experience if we didnt have to keep elderly invalids alive? that is what communist thinking is at its worst but i think you get the picture.
-
and you didn't respond to the question.the fact is there are orphanages all over the country that are filled with kids that are not being adopted.My question was.How long would it take if roe vs. wade was overturned before these orphanages were the size of prisons filled with unwanted kids.
first, there are very few orphanages left in this country. they were replaced with the foster care system. it's suppose to be a little bit more one-on-one.
second, overturning roe would not end abortion. overturning roe would mean state law would go into effect. maybe half of all states would outlaw abortion. that just means the rich and middle class would travel to other states to have them and the poor would turn to back alleys.
want to reduce the number of abortions? teach and make available on demand better birth control
-
People see what they want, and willingly don't see things.
Very true, CQ. True, true, true!
-
right. you think abortion is imperative to maintaining the status quo. i understand that. there are other ways other than abortion you know . how about we change our behavior as individuals, families, communities and countries? then maybe we wont have to kill babies to maintain status quo. do you understand how dangerous your line if thinking is? what happens when we take it a step further? you know how much of a financial relief our health care system would experience if we didnt have to keep elderly invalids alive? that is what communist thinking is at its worst but i think you get the picture.
this is how I feel.he was a smart man.
-
this is how I feel.he was a smart man.
Hey i loved george carlin too but come on. That was just one of his silly rants. Its meant to get laughs from liberal college kids, not to actually make some poignant statement on the abortion issue. If you really listen to what hes saying all he really does is use a long stream of ad hominem arguments. These arguments dazzle young college kids but they dont (and shouldn't) hold any water for mature, rational adults. Keep in mind that i've seen almost all of his routines and i love the guy. he was one of the best.
-
by the way this was the best part of that routine. i saw him my first year of college do this exact routine. hilarious.
-
pro life religious are bigots. Whats funny is that people like coach,radical christians etc.. have actually murdered doctors as a means to an end to save unborn life, they are PRO-LIFE. what fails to dawn on them is that they have actually taken life of a person who probably has a family, friends and has worked hard his entire life to improve others.
what these idiots dont realize is that when most babies are aborted within the first three months, most earlier, they are not living beings. They cannot feel pain as the nervous system is not fully operational and are no more life then an initial zygote or 16 cell morula. Surely they are on there way to being life but this does not equate life, obviously not because it cannot live on its own.These guys also should realize that everytime we masturbate, have protected sex or even resist our urge to copulate we are denying the possible birth of a child, we are anti life. Why do they think a 12 week fetus is further living then a unfertilized egg that is randomly aborted? is it the look of the unliving?
conception should be outlawed if you are pro-life as we are denying the formation of life.
it is the womans choice as well, it is not a seperate entity until birth, it is actively part of the woman, im sure none of the pro life people have any knowledge of embryology and realize this.
-
pro life religious are bigots. Whats funny is that people like coach,radical christians etc.. have actually murdered doctors as a means to an end to save unborn life, they are PRO-LIFE. what fails to dawn on them is that they have actually taken life of a person who probably has a family, friends and has worked hard his entire life to improve others.
I think the killing of doctors is terrible of course, but must say I don't think Coach has done that in his defense. 8)
-
I think the killing of doctors is terrible of course, but must say I don't think Coach has done that in his defense. 8)
no but pro life people have taken life. This is the kind of mind we are dealing with.
-
no but pro life people have taken life. This is the kind of mind we are dealing with.
Yeah, and pro abortion proponents have too.
-
no but pro life people have taken life. This is the kind of mind we are dealing with.
if they kill people, they're not pro life now are they? thats an ignorant statement. i bet you get really mad when someone says that all muslims are terrorists dont you? dont fight ignorance with more ignorance.
-
Abortion is done... 90 percent of people under 35 consider it settled.
-
if they kill people, they're not pro life now are they? thats an ignorant statement. i bet you get really mad when someone says that all muslims are terrorists dont you? dont fight ignorance with more ignorance.
what?
anti abortionists are pro life yet some have taken life via murder and some have assaulted doctors. How can one be pro life and take life?
you statement makes no sense, just another idiot ill have to destroy.
Yeah, and pro abortion proponents have too.
so? they havent killed abortion doctors claiming that they are protecting the destruction of life, its ironic. If a pro abortion proponent refused to have an abortion citing pro life this would be the same irony.
your argument is not the same. Why are they pro life for unborn children yet not pro life for actual living creatures. Im making a generalization but alot of writing has been done on the subject.
-
what?
anti abortionists are pro life yet some have taken life via murder and some have assaulted doctors. How can one be pro life and take life?
you statement makes no sense, just another idiot ill have to destroy.
so? they havent killed abortion doctors claiming that they are protecting the destruction of life, its ironic. If a pro abortion proponent refused to have an abortion citing pro life this would be the same irony.
your argument is not the same. Why are they pro life for unborn children yet not pro life for actual living creatures. Im making a generalization but alot of writing has been done on the subject.
I don't condone the killing of doctors. There are lunatics on both sides of this issue.
Your argument is weak because you're making a very broad generalization.
-
I don't condone the killing of doctors. There are lunatics on both sides of this issue.
Your argument is weak because you're making a very broad generalization.
yes i am. I realize this, it is not my main argument, read my long post for the main argument. I was just pointing out the irony per se.
-
ballot initiative relating to abortion:
South Dakota Initiative 11: abortion limits - NO 55% to 45%
Colorado Amendment 48: human life from moment of conception - NO 73% to 27%
California Proposition 4: parent notification - NO 52% to 48%
-
ballot initiative relating to abortion:
South Dakota Initiative 11: abortion limits - NO 55% to 45%
Colorado Amendment 48: human life from moment of conception - NO 73% to 27%
California Proposition 4: parent notification - NO 52% to 48%
Exactly... Abortion is DONE... The entire country is tired of it, it is a NONE issue.
-
ballot initiative relating to abortion:
South Dakota Initiative 11: abortion limits - NO 55% to 45%
Colorado Amendment 48: human life from moment of conception - NO 73% to 27%
California Proposition 4: parent notification - NO 52% to 48%
At least prop 8 passed. I hope these women can't have kids someday. ;D
-
At least prop 8 passed. I hope these women can't have kids someday. ;D
By 4 percent it did... It will not stand for ever... Just like Abortion, one day, Gay marriage will too become a NON issue because the young people will eventually not care.
That's what happens... The young push things forward.
-
By 4 percent it did... It will not stand for ever... Just like Abortion, one day, Gay marriage will too become a NON issue because the young people will eventually not care.
That's what happens... The young push things forward.
My generation, the young, are fucking stupid. Period. They have no morals and values.
As far as abortion, if the woman can tell me shes going to have an abortion whether I like it or not I should be able to tell her whether or not I'm going to pay for the kid she does want. Hell, I should just go sit on welfare and wait for my Osama hand out like all the other lazy fuckers.
-
My generation, the young, are fucking stupid. Period. They have no morals and values.
As far as abortion, if the woman can tell me shes going to have an abortion whether I like it or not I should be able to tell her whether or not I'm going to pay for the kid she does want. Hell, I should just go sit on welfare and wait for my Osama hand out like all the other lazy fuckers.
don't worry. you're still young. some day you'll realize the world is not as black and white as you see it today
-
My generation, the young, are fucking stupid. Period. They have no morals and values.
As far as abortion, if the woman can tell me shes going to have an abortion whether I like it or not I should be able to tell her whether or not I'm going to pay for the kid she does want. Hell, I should just go sit on welfare and wait for my Osama hand out like all the other lazy fuckers.
ahh this takes me back to when I was young and knew it all.
-
My generation, the young, are fucking stupid. Period. They have no morals and values.
As far as abortion, if the woman can tell me shes going to have an abortion whether I like it or not I should be able to tell her whether or not I'm going to pay for the kid she does want. Hell, I should just go sit on welfare and wait for my Osama hand out like all the other lazy fuckers.
I agree with your stance... If she can say she doesn't want it... I should be able to say I don't want to pay for it... I agree COMPLETELY.
I disagree with your stance on "morality"...
At one time it was considered "immoral" to be in an interracial relationship.
At one time it was considered "immoral" for a woman to dispute a man's will.
At one time it was considered "immoral" to have an abortion.
Morality is legislated by those who are the majority... One day, the bigoted towards gay marriage will not be the majority any longer... as the youth of today become the majority... As always with the world... Things will change.
Electing a Black Man with the Middle Name of Hussein to be President of the United States is proof that one day, Gay Marriage will be as allowed as any other marriage.
-
exactly scroll half way down the first page I already summed it up....NON ISSUE!
-
I agree with your stance... If she can say she doesn't want it... I should be able to say I don't want to pay for it... I agree COMPLETELY.
I disagree with your stance on "morality"...
At one time it was considered "immoral" to be in an interracial relationship.
At one time it was considered "immoral" for a woman to dispute a man's will.
At one time it was considered "immoral" to have an abortion.
Morality is legislated by those who are the majority... One day, the bigoted towards gay marriage will not be the majority any longer... as the youth of today become the majority... As always with the world... Things will change.
Electing a Black Man with the Middle Name of Hussein to be President of the United States is proof that one day, Gay Marriage will be as allowed as any other marriage.
Well then we can agree and disagree ;D, but I was brought up differently. Like it was said though, non-issue. You almost never change people's minds on these issues.
-
yes i am. I realize this, it is not my main argument, read my long post for the main argument. I was just pointing out the irony per se.
its frightening that you walk around thinking that what you say makes any sense.
-
what?
anti abortionists are pro life yet some have taken life via murder and some have assaulted doctors. How can one be pro life and take life?
It is wrong for a pro-lifer to murder a doctor, and yes it is ironic and hypocritical. However, how many pro-lifers have killed abortion doctors in the US? Right off the top of my head I can think of only one. You got any statistics on that? Just because some crazy kills an abortion doctor doesn't mean that all or even most pro-lifers are murderers and hypocrites. It's not a good argument.
Necrosis,
Theoretically, suppose medicine were to prove that life begins at conception and that embryos feel pain, would you become pro-life then or does this even matter to you? I know of some respected, educated people who say that it does not matter because they say that there is nothing wrong with destroying innocent life as long as that innocent life is not contributing to society.
-
Exactly... Abortion is DONE... The entire country is tired of it, it is a NONE issue.
Exactly, and flinging it around as a campaign issue just detracts from the real issues.
On a sheerly pragmatic side - it won't ever be banned in all states anyway, so all anyone has to do is slip to another state. On the far fetched notion it is banned nationwide all anyone has to do is go to another nation. There is no way to stop people from getting abortions, so get a grip and move onto actual real issues.
And some of the same people who preach - if their wife was raped by someone of another race and became pregnant or their 11 year old daughter was raped quite a few would be changing their tune ::)
-
Exactly, and flinging it around as a campaign issue just detracts from the real issues.
On a sheerly pragmatic side - it won't ever be banned in all states anyway, so all anyone has to do is slip to another state. On the far fetched notion it is banned nationwide all anyone has to do is go to another nation. There is no way to stop people from getting abortions, so get a grip and move onto actual real issues.
And some of the same people who preach - if their wife was raped by someone of another race and became pregnant or their 11 year old daughter was raped quite a few would be changing their tune ::)
i really cant stand when people use this type of argument when discussing abortion. stop bullshitting yourself and act like abortion is there for rape victims. thats not who gets abortions. under 7% combined of all abortions are for reasons of rape/incest, danger to the mother's health, danger to the fetuses health. i personally believe in the decision of roe v wade. the men and women who passed this law i believe had their heart in the right place. but what the people have done with the law is disgusting. they have ripped to shreds and spit on what the people who passed the law were trying to accomplish. abortion is simply a matter of convenience now. dont be naive and think it is anything but.
-
It is wrong for a pro-lifer to murder a doctor, and yes it is ironic an hypocritical. However, how many pro-lifers have killed abortion doctors in the US? Right off the top of my head I can think of only one. You got any statistics on that? Just because some crazy kills an abortion doctor doesn't mean that all or even most pro-lifers are murderers and hypocrites. It's not a good argument.
Necrosis,
Theoretically, suppose medicine were to prove that life begins at conception and that embryos feel pain, would you become pro-life then or does this even matter to you? I know of some respected, educated people who say that it does not matter because they say that there is nothing wrong with destroying innocent life as long as that innocent life is not contributing to society.
when the organism is capable of life outside the womb i will consider it alive. During various embryonic stages all kinds of changes are occuring, all of these are arbitrary ime if we try to establish law on them.
zygotes are aborted all the time, forming into a morula and continuing on through the various stages offers little gurantee that the fetus will not be aborted. I would choose not to make a differentiation until it is a sustainable life, until then i see little difference between a half formed baby and a newly fertilized zygote.
-
Exactly... Abortion is DONE... The entire country is tired of it, it is a NONE issue.
Hardly. There are millions of people with pro life views. And they vote. Here is an older article talking about public views on abortion. Hardly a settled issue. http://www.religioustolerance.org/abopoll05.htm
-
Hardly. There are millions of people with pro life views. And they vote. Here is an older article talking about public views on abortion. Hardly a settled issue. http://www.religioustolerance.org/abopoll05.htm
Beach, when completely Red states don't care enough to overturn pro abortion things... It's done.
As younger people get older, most will see it as a done deal... Only the older generation cares about it... You're living in the past.
Hell, the Republicans can't even count on that "Pro-Life" base to get votes for them... It's a done deal... Sorry you don't see it.
-
Beach, when completely Red states don't care enough to overturn pro abortion things... It's done.
As younger people get older, most will see it as a done deal... Only the older generation cares about it... You're living in the past.
Hell, the Republicans can't even count on that "Pro-Life" base to get votes for them... It's a done deal... Sorry you don't see it.
Tu this isn't about me. I'm just stating the facts. Millions of people view this as an important issue. Members of the Catholic leadership called this the most important issue in politics. It's not going away. It will never be a settled issue IMO.
Also, the stats I posted show a lot of people do not favor abortion on demand and many favor at least some restrictions.
Let's have this conversation again when Stevens keels over or Ginsberg resigns. I guarantee you abortion will be the hottest topic when it comes to selecting the next supreme court judge.
-
how about it isn't about your troll like self. :) as you would like it to be.
-
Tu this isn't about me. I'm just stating the facts. Millions of people view this as an important issue. Members of the Catholic leadership called this the most important issue in politics. It's not going away. It will never be a settled issue IMO.
Also, the stats I posted show a lot of people do not favor abortion on demand and many favor at least some restrictions.
Let's have this conversation again when Stevens keels over or Ginsberg resigns. I guarantee you abortion will be the hottest topic when it comes to selecting the next supreme court judge.
It may be... but then again, you think all of these states went blue and none of them thought about voting for the next Supreme Court Justice?
Come on Beach... The PEOPLE don't care... You say "Millions", but millions more say it's fine... Abortion is DONE.
What part of the fact that it's the vocal minority that talks pro-life do you not want to admit to?
-
It may be... but then again, you think all of these states went blue and none of them thought about voting for the next Supreme Court Justice?
Come on Beach... The PEOPLE don't care... You say "Millions", but millions more say it's fine... Abortion is DONE.
What part of the fact that it's the vocal minority that talks pro-life do you not want to admit to?
Given the economic crisis and the fact that supreme court appointments were largely not discussed during the campaign, no I don't think a lot of voters were thinking about judges. They should have been. A few of us on the board talked about it on the board. I'm sure I created a thread or two about it.
But what exactly do you want me to admit? That abortion is not an issue for millions of voters? Cannot admit that, because it's factually inaccurate. You may not care, but millions of people do. The fact Obama won the election doesn't change this fact.
-
But what exactly do you want me to admit? That abortion is not an issue for millions of voters? Cannot admit that, because it's factually inaccurate. You may not care, but millions of people do.
how about admitting that you're not going to be able to outlaw it in this country, certainly not in a generation or two, and that the right-to-life movement's time would be better spent preventing unwanted pregnancies. Convince people that it's easier to use a condom than it is to get an abortion, or to pay child support for 18 years.
-
how about admitting that you're not going to be able to outlaw it in this country, certainly not in a generation or two, and that the right-to-life movement's time would be better spent preventing unwanted pregnancies. Convince people that it's easier to use a condom than it is to get an abortion, or to pay child support for 18 years.
Why would I admit that? Aren't third trimester abortions outlawed in some states?
I don't think there are any easy answers. I've already said the issue will never be resolved. There is no acceptable political answer. If Roe v. Wade is never overturned, abortion will still be an important issue for millions of people. If is overturned, it will still be an issue for millions of people.