Getbig.com: American Bodybuilding, Fitness and Figure
Getbig Bodybuilding Boards => Steroids Info & Hardcore => Topic started by: Marlo Stanfield on December 02, 2009, 04:37:32 PM
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i know that "test is test", but there are differences between them.
1) which one do you like best and why?
2) which one gives the least bloat / leanest gains? ( i know that diet is the key...)
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1.) test e longer ester means fewer shots
2.) test prop cause me the least bloat than the others.
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1) The cheapest human grade that is rarely faked. Geofman, Pliva, etc.
2) Prop does seem to give less bloat to the majority who used it, but i honestly couldn't tell a difference.
8)
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1) The cheapest human grade that is rarely faked. Geofman, Pliva, etc.
2) Prop does seem to give less bloat to the majority who used it, but i honestly couldn't tell a difference.
8)
is it true prop hurts more than all of them? and if all of them ar ethe same, why would someone take prop EOD instead of Enth once every 5-7 days? is the "stable blood levels" that significant that you'll see less results with Enth?
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is it true prop hurts more than all of them? and if all of them ar ethe same, why would someone take prop EOD instead of Enth once every 5-7 days? is the "stable blood levels" that significant that you'll see less results with Enth?
It does seem to be more painful than the longer esters.
You need to shoot Prop ED or EOD because it has such a short halflife compared to E or C.
8)
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pliva is hg and gh15 approved ;) pretty cheap too along with geofman
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It does seem to be more painful than the longer esters.
You need to shoot Prop ED or EOD because it has such a short halflife compared to E or C.
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i kno that,my question is that if all testosterones are the same, why would someone choose to stick themselves ED or EOD on Prop instead of every 10-14 days on Sust ???
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i kno that,my question is that if all testosterones are the same, why would someone choose to stick themselves ED or EOD on Prop instead of every 10-14 days on Sust ???
If I'm not wrong shooting ED is good for keeping a stable test blood level.
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If I'm not wrong shooting ED is good for keeping a stable test blood level.
But if you time your injections based on the half life, it doesnt matter how often you inject, you can still have stable blood levels
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test e
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i kno that,my question is that if all testosterones are the same, why would someone choose to stick themselves ED or EOD on Prop instead of every 10-14 days on Sust ???
Because test prop as mentioned may cause less bloat. Test prop will start working and can be stopped very quickly, it can be controlled better. You never know where your blood levels are if you shoot as you mentioned "sust every 10-14 days" who knows what is going on there?? Test prop you know exactly where you are at. Test prop seems to come on with a stronger effect, which makes sense faster acting, bigger bang. If you use lets say 100-150mg test prop ED you will have the full benefit of testosterone, you will feel jacked and aggressive. And if things go wrong, lets say you start to develop gyno or some other nasty side the test p can be dropped and out of your system in days as compared to weeks or months.
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My top two favorite drugs of all time are test prop and nandrolone phenylprop. The latter blows EQ out of the water.
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Because test prop as mentioned may cause less bloat. Test prop will start working and can be stopped very quickly, it can be controlled better. You never know where your blood levels are if you shoot as you mentioned "sust every 10-14 days" who knows what is going on there?? Test prop you know exactly where you are at. Test prop seems to come on with a stronger effect, which makes sense faster acting, bigger bang. If you use lets say 100-150mg test prop ED you will have the full benefit of testosterone, you will feel jacked and aggressive. And if things go wrong, lets say you start to develop gyno or some other nasty side the test p can be dropped and out of your system in days as compared to weeks or months.
thanks man, that makes sense. i didnt think of it like that.
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i know that "test is test", but there are differences between them.
1) which one do you like best and why?
2) which one gives the least bloat / leanest gains? ( i know that diet is the key...)
1. Test C or E.
2. Bloat & leans gains can depends on diet as well as the ester. & it could also depend on your own personal reaction - for example only my face tends to "blow up".
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Because test prop as mentioned may cause less bloat. Test prop will start working and can be stopped very quickly, it can be controlled better. You never know where your blood levels are if you shoot as you mentioned "sust every 10-14 days" who knows what is going on there?? Test prop you know exactly where you are at. Test prop seems to come on with a stronger effect, which makes sense faster acting, bigger bang. If you use lets say 100-150mg test prop ED you will have the full benefit of testosterone, you will feel jacked and aggressive. And if things go wrong, lets say you start to develop gyno or some other nasty side the test p can be dropped and out of your system in days as compared to weeks or months.
Nice post. Prop fucking rules. I get no bloat when I am prone to it and feel superior. Doesnt hurt a bit.
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Injectable? Prop
all in all, for me.. test undecanoate (andriol) I take 2 a day and feel like superman... nice gel caps from Organon
script from the doctor and covered by my health plan :D
for those that are gonna chime in and say 'ohhh it's not the same kind of big gains like en and cyp.' that shit is 3/4 water gains, you can keep your moon face and size 38 pants :D
I think enanthate, cypionate and suspension are absolute garbage, they promote horrible water retention, I've tried pretty much every kind of cyp and en. (legit human grade) from the egyptian one, to the iranian one , to the Canadian pharmaceutical (delatestryl) it's all the same shit. WATER
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you wont have a moon face if stacking with ephedrine masteron arimidex :)
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you are a moron sayin its all water retention if you start to get bloat then take an ai or fix your diet and stop eating like a fatbody....if your gel caps work good for you then but Don.'t fill this board with stupid Shit like test e or cyp or suspension are no good cuz their the building block of any cycle how good you look depends on diet and training
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you are a moron sayin its all water retention if you start to get bloat then take an ai or fix your diet and stop eating like a fatbody....if your gel caps work good for you then but Don.'t fill this board with stupid Shit like test e or cyp or suspension are no good cuz their the building block of any cycle how good you look depends on diet and training
No Racism will be allowed
Test E/Cyp/Suspension is the worst for water - those are facts you can read in any book on steroids or medical abstract (if you knew what one is) there are much better choice out there, propionate being one of them. The sustanon 250 or 100 blend also being a better choice. AI's don't fix everything in a cycle you can still get water when taking ai's.
And just for curiosity, tell me what good is a product like Suspension these days, with the modern cycles and additives (like insulin and gh, mgf) we have now ?!!?? I'm waiting for your answer.
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to start with i'm not a guido i can't stand them.....and you have no argument your a moron you get bloat you take nolva and It cuts It right out....but no your right everyone should Jus take gh instead of test to avoid bloat....test has and will be the building block of aas's and one of the best hormones out there.....if you disagree i really Don.'t care go back to curlin with 20's an benchin one plate
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As far as water bloat I don't get much of a difference between each esther..
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to start with i'm not a guido i can't stand them.....and you have no argument your a moron you get bloat you take nolva and It cuts It right out....but no your right everyone should Jus take gh instead of test to avoid bloat....Fuckin idiot....test has and will be the building block of aas's and one of the best hormones out there.....if you disagree i really Don.'t care go back to curlin with 20's an benchin one plate dumbAss
Hahah, ok guido boy..keep ramming that suspension and pop 10 nolva's a day to keep your moon face down :D
Test is one of the best hormones and the building block of a good cycle, but it doesn't have to be shitty cyp, en. or suspension you retard. Shorter acting esters of test are much better, unless you're using them for HRT at low dosages.
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Test P is so simple and pretty easy to predict and control. Down side more frequent injects. Stuff comes on strong 100-150mg ED is the sweet spot. Go right ahead also if you are inclined to mix E or C test with prop, works very well. Guaranteed stable, big hormone levels. Stuff will jack you up, just make sure and take enough.
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Currently taking Cyp for HRT and have no issues with bloating!
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Currently taking Cyp for HRT and have no issues with bloating!
Sure, typical HRT doses are low. This will not blow you up.
Test E is my favorite, cyp the same but a bit harder to find from a UGL. E usually comes 250mg ml opposed to cyp 200mg ml. the extra 50mg is nice in the E.
Prop is a pain in the ass literally LOL but is rocket fuel and has it's advantages and disadvantages. Use it as a tool like anything else. If you run test on a big diet lets say for a physique competition or something I would recommend test P. To get ripped and thin skin to the point you meet BB competion standards will take a big ass diet and PLENTY of AIs.
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As far as water bloat I don't get much of a difference between each esther..
You dont see a diff between Cyp and Prop? They are worlds apart as far as bloat goes.
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You dont see a diff between Cyp and Prop? They are worlds apart as far as bloat goes.
I know you can get in great shape on cyp also depends what you eat most.
Cyp and Prop sure are both test but with its much longer ester cyp or E for that matter have a reputation for having you holding more water. How big the difference is I cant really say cause whenever I diet seriously I use test prop. Have not done a strict try to get shredded diet on E or C so would be hard for me to say. Many variables also AIs used, diet, training/cardio, quality of products used, how your body responds...
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Enthanate is the way to go IMO.
Test esters: By Bill Llewellyn
Here is an article I got some time back and pasted into notepad, I do not remember the source, but it is a pretty good source of info for understanding esters. I decided to post it because I have answered a few questions regarding esters over the last few days and thought it would be of help.
One of the most misunderstood subjects in the world of steroids is the ester--the mechanism by which injectable esterified steroids like testosterone cypionate, testosterone enanthate, and Sustanon work. If you take a quick look around the Internet you will probably find countless articles that consider one form of a steroid far more effective than another. Arguments over the superiority of cypionate to enanthate, or Sustanon to all other testosterones are of course very common. Such arguments are in all practicality, baseless. In this report we'll take an authoritative look at the ester and what specifically it does to a steroid.
WHAT AN ESTER IS, AND HOW IT WORKS
I'm sure that if you have taken an interest in anabolic steroids you have noticed the similarities on the labeling of many drugs. Let's look at testosterone for example. One can find compounds like testosterone cypionate, enanthate, propionate, heptylate; caproate, phenylpropionate, isocaproate, decanoate, acetate, the list goes on and on. In all such cases the parent hormone is testosterone, which had been modified by adding an ester (enanthate, propionate etc.) to its structure. The following question arises: What is the difference between the various esterified versions of testosterone in regards to their use in bodybuilding?
An ester is a chain composed primarily of carbon and hydrogen atoms. This chain is typically attached to the parent steroid hormone at the 17th carbon position (beta orientation), although some compounds do carry esters at position 3 (for the purposes of this article it is not crucial to understand the exact position of the ester). Esterification of an injectable anabolic/androgenic steroid basically accomplishes one thing; it slows the release of the parent steroid from the site of injection. This happens because the ester will notably lower the water solubility of the steroid, and increase its lipid (fat) solubility. This will cause the drug to form a deposit in the muscle tissue, from which it will slowly enter into circulation as it is picked up in small quantities by the blood. Generally, the longer the ester chain, the lower the water solubility of the compound, and the longer it will take to for the full dosage to reach general circulation.
Slowing the release of the parent steroid is a great benefit in steroid medicine, as free testosterone (or other steroid hormones) previously would remain active in the body for a very short period of time (typically hours). This would necessitate an unpleasant daily injection schedule if one wished to maintain a continuous elevation of testosterone (the goal of testosterone replacement therapy). By adding an ester, the patient can visit the doctor as infrequently as once per month for his injection, instead of having to constantly re-administer the drug to achieve a therapeutic effect. Clearly without the use of an ester, therapy with an injectable anabolic/androgen would be much more difficult.
Esterification temporarily deactivates the steroid molecule. With a chain blocking the 17th beta position, binding to the androgen receptor is not possible (it can exert no activity in the body). In order for the compound to become active the ester must therefore first be removed. This automatically occurs once the compound has filtered into blood circulation, where esterase enzymes quickly cleave off (hydrolyze) the ester chain. This will restore the necessary hydroxyl (OH) group at the 17th beta position, enabling the drug to attach to the appropriate receptor. Now and only now will the steroid be able to have an effect on skeletal muscle tissue. You can start to see why considering testosterone cypionate much more potent than enanthate makes little sense, as your muscles are seeing only free testosterone no matter what ester was used to deploy it.
ACTIONS OF DIFFERENT ESTERS
There are many different esters that are used with anabolic/androgenic steroids, but again, they all do basically the same thing. Esters vary only in their ability to reduce a steroid's water solubility. An ester like propionate for example will slow the release of a steroid for a few days, while the duration will be weeks with a decanoate ester. Esters have no effect on the tendency for the parent steroid to convert to estrogen or DHT (dihydrotestosterone: a more potent metabolite) nor will it effect the overall muscle-building potency of the compound. Any differences in results and side effects that may be noted by bodybuilders who have used various esterified versions of the same base steroid are just issues of timing. Testosterone enanthate causes estrogen related problems more readily than Sustanon, simply because with enanthate testosterone levels will peak and trough much sooner (1-2 week release duration as opposed to 3 or 4). Likewise testosterone suspension is the worst in regards to gyno and water bloat because blood hormone levels peak so quickly with this drug. Instead of waiting weeks for testosterone levels to rise to their highest point, here we are at most looking at a couple of days. Given an equal blood level of testosterone, there would be no difference in the rate of aromatization or DHT conversion between different esters. There is simply no mechanism for this to be possible.
There is however one way that we can say an ester does technically effect potency; it is calculated in the steroid weight. The heavier the ester chain, the greater is its percentage of the total weight. In the case of testosterone enanthate for example, 250mg of esterified steroid (testosterone enanthate) is equal to only 180mg of free testosterone. 70mgs out of each 250mg injection is the weight of the ester. If we wanted to be really picky, we could consider enanthate slightly MORE potent than cypionate (I know this goes against popular thinking) as its ester chain contains one less carbon atom (therefore taking up a slightly smaller percentage of total weight). Propionate would of course come out on top of the three, releasing a measurable (but not significant) amount more testosterone per injection than cypionate or enanthate.
IN CONCLUSION
While the advent of esters certainly constitutes an invaluable advance in the field of anabolic steroid medicine, clearly you can see that there is no magic involved here. Esters work in a well-understood and predictable manner, and do not alter the activity of the parent steroid in any way other than to delay its release. Although the lure surrounding various steroid products like testosterone cypionate, Sustanon, Omnadren etc. certainly makes for interesting conversation, realistically it just amounts to misinformation that the athlete would be better off ignoring. Testosterone is testosterone and anyone who is going to tell you one ester form of this (or any) hormone is much better than another one should do a little more research, and a lot less talking.
ESTER PROFILES
Sustanon: The "king" of testosterone blends.
The four different testosterone esters in this product certainly look appealing to the consumer, there is no denying that. But for the athlete I think it is all just a matter of marketing (Hell, why buy one ester when you can get four?). In clinical situations I can see some strong uses for it. If you were undergoing testosterone replacement therapy for example, you would probably find Sustanon a much more comfortable option than testosterone enanthate. You would need to visit the doctor less frequently for an injection, and blood levels should be more steadily maintained between treatments. But for the bodybuilder who is injecting 4 ampules of Sustanon per week, there is no advantage over other testosterone products. In fact, the high price tag for Sustanon usually makes it a very poor buy in the face of cheaper testosterone enanthate/cypionate. Bodybuilders should probably stop looking at the four ester issue, and stick with totals (Sustanon is just a 250mg testosterone ampule). Were enanthate to be available for say $10 per amp of 250mg, and Sustanon priced nearly double that, buying the Sustanon would be like throwing money away. If you could get nearly double the milligram amount for the same price with enanthate, this is the better product to go with hands down. Leave the high priced stuff for the guys who don't know any better.
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Injectable? Prop
all in all, for me.. test undecanoate (andriol) I take 2 a day and feel like superman... nice gel caps from Organon
script from the doctor and covered by my health plan :D
for those that are gonna chime in and say 'ohhh it's not the same kind of big gains like en and cyp.' that shit is 3/4 water gains, you can keep your moon face and size 38 pants :D
I think enanthate, cypionate and suspension are absolute garbage, they promote horrible water retention, I've tried pretty much every kind of cyp and en. (legit human grade) from the egyptian one, to the iranian one , to the Canadian pharmaceutical (delatestryl) it's all the same shit. WATER
Where do you come up with your BS? All water size 38 pants LMFAO, obviously you have no idea how to eat, or use ancillaries, or use AAS for that matter.
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Where do you come up with your BS? All water size 38 pants LMFAO, obviously you have no idea how to eat, or use ancillaries, or use AAS for that matter.
Damn those are some big pants! LOL
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Kinda random but from what I have heard cyp. is better for strength gains.
This was a hick powerlifter from the south who told me this so it was probly bullshit lol
test e, c are basically the same. test is test is test.
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this loser mod keeps deleting/changing my posts..
Because I cant stop calling people names, and act like an adult. ;)
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As long as I mod this board you will not be here calling people names. Its members like you who bring this board down with your BS. Thanks for your cooperation ::)
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As long as I mod this board you will not be here calling people names. Its members like you who bring this board down with your BS. Thanks for your cooperation ::)
Are you kidding me !? do you know how much useful information I've posted for people here over the years ?!! people like me bring the board down?! LOL, why don't you try posting some USEFUL TIPS AND FACTS instead of hyping Axio in underground garbage in every post? do you know how many pm's I get from people on the steroid board seeking advice with cycles and products?! Hahahaha.. you gotta be kidding me, maybe you should do a few more cycles and try working out instead of sitting on here on alert status all day..
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Are you kidding me !? do you know how much useful information I've posted for people here over the years ?!! people like me bring the board down?! LOL, why don't you try posting some USEFUL TIPS AND FACTS instead of hyping Axio in underground garbage in every post? do you know how many pm's I get from people on the steroid board seeking advice with cycles and products?! Hahahaha.. you gotta be kidding me, maybe you should do a few more cycles and try working out instead of sitting on here on alert status all day..
Fine man this board is all about sharing information, opinions and experience. Thing is you are a hot head who flys off the handle and insults people out of the blue with 0 provocation.
THATS the shit we will not tolerate from any member. If you don't like it then you need to find another place to do your thing cause thats just the way it is. We act like adults here, if that works for you fine. If not bye, bye, your vast knowledge is not needed then. Be cool, stop the bashing and talking down to people and we all would love to have you here.
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Are you kidding me !? do you know how much useful information I've posted for people here over the years ?!! people like me bring the board down?! LOL, why don't you try posting some USEFUL TIPS AND FACTS instead of hyping Axio in underground garbage in every post? do you know how many pm's I get from people on the steroid board seeking advice with cycles and products?! Hahahaha.. you gotta be kidding me, maybe you should do a few more cycles and try working out instead of sitting on here on alert status all day..
I mentioned Axio in like maybe four posts, where people were asking about UGs. I get PM's ed from members asking about cycles, so get lost. As stated above your a complete hothead, and your really not needed here. If your so useful start your own board and your fans will probably follow you. Get a life! I'm done with your BS.
Also keep telling yourself how useful you are to the board. LMFAO
You spew BS like telling people test c, e, prop, and suspension are useless, and give only bloat and 38 size pants. Give me a break. Learn how to eat, train, and use AAS, and maybe you wouldnt have 38 size pants ::) Good day sir!