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Getbig Main Boards => Gossip & Opinions => Topic started by: Danimal77 on December 14, 2009, 11:12:18 AM
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If Lee Haney looked like he did in the 1980's, but began competing in 1992, rather than 1982, how would he have fared in the placings?
This is kind of a throwback to the Dexter vs. Shawn Ray thread. Lee Haney DOMINATED from 1982/1983 up until 1991 (it was a close call that year). As of 1992, the competition was MUCH more competitive. So, if he had been one of the many new rookie pro's in 1982, how would he have fared throughout the 90's, next to guys like Yates, Levrone, Wheeler, Dillett, Nasser, Cormier, Shawn Ray, etc?
Personally, I think Shawn Ray MURDERED Rich Gaspari. Charles Clairmonte murdered Berry Demey. Cormier murdered Mike Christian, etc....
Discuss.....
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If Lee Haney looked like he did in the 1980's, but began competing in 1992, rather than 1982, how would he have fared in the placings?
This is kind of a throwback to the Dexter vs. Shawn Ray thread. Lee Haney DOMINATED from 1982/1983 up until 1990. 1991 was shaky. As of 1992, the competition was MUCH more competitive. So, if he has been one of the many new rookie pro's in 1982, how would he have fared throughout the 90's, next to guys like Yates, Levrone, Wheeler, Dillett, Nasser, Cormier, Shawn Ray, etc?
Personally, I think Shawn Ray MURDERED Rich Gaspari. Charles Clairmonte murdered Berry Demey. Cormier murdered Mike Christian, etc....
Discuss.....
OK,OTHER THAN UR ASSESSMENT ON 91 SHAKY,OTHER WAY AROUND 1990 WAS SHAKY,1991 HE DESERVED IT OVER YATES.
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OK,OTHER THAN UR ASSESSMENT ON 91 SHAKY,OTHER WAY AROUND 1990 WAS SHAKY,1991 HE DESERVED IT OVER YATES.
You are completely ignoring the fact that the entire field of competitors changed by 1992/1993 (enter the best Olympia line-up of all time). Forget about 1991 and deal with the actual question.
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he will still do well in his best shape but will NOT win 8 mr Os.......maybe not even 1.
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If Lee Haney looked like he did in the 1980's, but began competing in 1992, rather than 1982, how would he have fared in the placings?
This is kind of a throwback to the Dexter vs. Shawn Ray thread. Lee Haney DOMINATED from 1982/1983 up until 1991 (it was a close call that year). As of 1992, the competition was MUCH more competitive. So, if he had been one of the many new rookie pro's in 1982, how would he have fared throughout the 90's, next to guys like Yates, Levrone, Wheeler, Dillett, Nasser, Cormier, Shawn Ray, etc?
Personally, I think Shawn Ray MURDERED Rich Gaspari. Charles Clairmonte murdered Berry Demey. Cormier murdered Mike Christian, etc....
Discuss.....
he wouldnt be mr o,
the dozer
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You are completely ignoring the fact that the entire field of competitors changed by 1992/1993 (enter the best Olympia line-up of all time). Forget about 1991 and deal with the actual question.
DUDE OK,i'm not the one that fixed what he wrote u said 91 was shaky,then changed it to a close call after i wrote that it was the other way around.haney probably would have been top 3 to 5 for 92/97,i don't know with coleman then .
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imagine haney facing prime shawn, flex, kevin, dorian, coleman, nasser etc..... he would not stand out at all
the bbers in the 90s (besides dorian)still had relatively pleasing waistlines.
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Would be hard for him - though he is/was more imposing because of his frame...
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You can't take a guy out of his era and just plop him into another era. You don't know what that era's supplements/training techniques/etc. would necessarily do to his body. Bottom line, a few shaky Olympia wins aside, Haney did everything necessary to win against his peers, and even stepped up his game in his final Olympia. The other key factor is that Haney RETIRED at an age when most guys today are just starting out in the pro ranks. Who knows how Haney would have looked doing the pro thing into his late 30's/early 40's. He certainly had weaknesses, but they all do.
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The assumption that Haney couldn't match what Wheeler, Ray, Yates (whom Haney defeated) and others did is a bit absurd.
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Personally, I think Shawn Ray MURDERED Rich Gaspari. Charles Clairmonte murdered Berry Demey. Cormier murdered Mike Christian, Bertil Fox murdered his girlfriend and her mother, etc....
Discuss.....
Fixed.
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If Lee Haney looked like he did in the 1980's, but began competing in 1992, rather than 1982, how would he have fared in the placings?
This is kind of a throwback to the Dexter vs. Shawn Ray thread. Lee Haney DOMINATED from 1982/1983 up until 1991 (it was a close call that year). As of 1992, the competition was MUCH more competitive. So, if he had been one of the many new rookie pro's in 1982, how would he have fared throughout the 90's, next to guys like Yates, Levrone, Wheeler, Dillett, Nasser, Cormier, Shawn Ray, etc?
Personally, I think Shawn Ray MURDERED Rich Gaspari. Charles Clairmonte murdered Berry Demey. Cormier murdered Mike Christian, etc....
Discuss.....
all bb's pre-1991 SMOKE your nothingness heroes of today
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You can't take a guy out of his era and just plop him into another era. You don't know what that era's supplements/training techniques/etc. would necessarily do to his body. Bottom line, a few shaky Olympia wins aside, Haney did everything necessary to win against his peers, and even stepped up his game in his final Olympia. The other key factor is that Haney RETIRED at an age when most guys today are just starting out in the pro ranks. Who knows how Haney would have looked doing the pro thing into his late 30's/early 40's. He certainly had weaknesses, but they all do.
Sure you can, if the guy in question was WAY AHEAD of his time and destroyed EVERYONE around him for almost an entire decade.
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You can't take a guy out of his era and just plop him into another era. You don't know what that era's supplements/training techniques/etc. would necessarily do to his body. Bottom line, a few shaky Olympia wins aside, Haney did everything necessary to win against his peers, and even stepped up his game in his final Olympia. The other key factor is that Haney RETIRED at an age when most guys today are just starting out in the pro ranks. Who knows how Haney would have looked doing the pro thing into his late 30's/early 40's. He certainly had weaknesses, but they all do.
You obviously misread, or didn't understand my initial scenario. Why are you referring to guys today are just starting out? I wasn't referring him to todays crop. I was comparing him to STARTING OUT at the same age he did in 1982, but transplant in 1992 instead and watch his evolution as it was, but in the 1990's, NOT the 1980's. EVERY ONE OF HIS COMPETITORS throughout the 90's would have been the same age as him, seeing he hasn't grown older. Do you get it now?
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What's with this actual bodybuilding talk. We are only supposed to post random youtube clips or weird photos or discuss hitting it.
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all bb's pre-1991 SMOKE your nothingness heroes of today
So, you're lumping the best bodybuilders of the 1990's with PRESENT DAY bodybuilders?
Okay..... ::) ::) ::) ::) ::) ::) ::) ::) ::) ::) ::) ::) ::) ::) ::) ::) ::) ::) ::) ::) ::) ::) ::) ::)
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he would have a lot of trouble with Ronnie 8)
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he would have a lot of trouble with Ronnie 8)
Thats pretty messed up how much bigger Ronnie is than Lee. God damn Coleman was huge
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Thats pretty messed up how much bigger Ronnie is than Lee. God damn Coleman was huge
DUDE, they are not standing next to each other. Haney was 5'11" and 250 pounds IN competition. He could have held his own against ALL THE BIG BOYS.
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If Lee Haney looked like he did in the 1980's, but began competing in 1992, rather than 1982, how would he have fared in the placings?
This is kind of a throwback to the Dexter vs. Shawn Ray thread. Lee Haney DOMINATED from 1982/1983 up until 1991 (it was a close call that year). As of 1992, the competition was MUCH more competitive. So, if he had been one of the many new rookie pro's in 1982, how would he have fared throughout the 90's, next to guys like Yates, Levrone, Wheeler, Dillett, Nasser, Cormier, Shawn Ray, etc?
Personally, I think Shawn Ray MURDERED Rich Gaspari. Charles Clairmonte murdered Berry Demey. Cormier murdered Mike Christian, etc....
Discuss.....
if he was the same shape as in the 80s but in the 90s sure he would have done somthing to be bigger to go with yates, nasser,.. etc.. but with the same shape of 91 for example it would have been very close between him and dorian in 92..
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You are completely ignoring the fact that the entire field of competitors changed by 1992/1993 (enter the best Olympia line-up of all time). Forget about 1991 and deal with the actual question.
aside of the lineup of mr. olympia 1992 yates himself was only 3 pounds more than his version of 1991 and i believe was nearly the same condition.. so yates was more or less the same in 91 and 92.. i believe lee could beat him again in 1992 or it would have been even closer than in 91.. but of course if lee was the same he wouldn't have done anything with yates in 1993!!.. it was going to be a strong battle between him and wheeler for 2nd!!..
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BLAH BLAH BLAH NASSER BLAH BLAH DORIAN BLAH BLAH RONNIE'S LATS....YADDA YADDA....
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good observation, i think Haney would never be as sucessfull as he did in other times...
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IF Haney was so damn good, why did he call it quits after the 91 Mr. O? He barely beat Dorian. Did Haney sense that a new era was upon him? A era of Dorian, Flex, Shawn, Kevin, Chris, Dillett, Nasser, Ronnie, Charles, Darrem, Priest, Sherman, Vince. The roster of those top guys would beat anything that Haney had to put up with.
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IF Haney was so damn good, why did he call it quits after the 91 Mr. O? He barely beat Dorian. Did Haney sense that a new era was upon him? A era of Dorian, Flex, Shawn, Kevin, Chris, Dillett, Nasser, Ronnie, Charles, Darrem, Priest, Sherman, Vince. The roster of those top guys would beat anything that Haney had to put up with.
i agree he retired after his tough battle with dorian in 91 in order not to take the risk of ending his career with a defeat in 92!!.. i respect him for this..
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I think if Haney had competed in 1992 he would have finished seond behind Dorian but ahead of Levrone.
In 1993 however, it would have been a different story - I would have placed him fourth behind Yates, Flex, and Shawn.
From that point onwards he would have been finished as other guys came through like Nasser, Dillett etc.
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So, you're lumping the best bodybuilders of the 1990's with PRESENT DAY bodybuilders?
Okay..... ::) ::) ::) ::) ::) ::) ::) ::) ::) ::) ::) ::) ::) ::) ::) ::) ::) ::) ::) ::) ::) ::) ::) ::)
no
there is NO comparison
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good observation, i think Haney would never be as sucessfull as he did in other times...
no
Haney would have an easier time with latter day bb's...they simply were/are not as good
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A better question would be what if Lee Haney used the 1990's roid doses when he competed in the 1980's.
He would have still killed anyone in the early 90's simply by upping the dose.
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i agree he retired after his tough battle with dorian in 91 in order not to take the risk of ending his career with a defeat in 92!!.. i respect him for this..
No i dont think that was the case Sherief, Lee retired because for him there was nothing more for him to do in Bodybuilding, he had said right from the start of his first win in 1984 that Arnolds then Olympia of 7 MR O titles wasnt in his sights...then 1 became 2 then 3-4 etc, when Lee broke Arnolds consecutive record of 6 straight (arnolds between 1970-75) in 1990 making it 7 straight he said it was beyond his wildest dreams that he could break the great Arnolds consecutive record, when asked if he was going for the outright record of 8 he said he would have to think it over...he did came out in print that he was going for the outright record of 8.
When he won in 1991 he retired because he was now down in History as the Greatest BBer in History...bar none, said it was time to move on to other goals, spend more time with his Family, his charity house work for kids, etc etc, the fact that Dorian pushed him for his last win made little difference to Lee, there was nothing more to prove etc in BBing, and he was right... people can say all they want about this guy being better and all the modern bbers being bigger/better/conditioned/etc than Lee....the fact remains in 2009 18 years after Lee last was Mr Olympia, he is STILL OFFICIALLY the greatest BBer in History tied equaled with Coleman on 8 wins each.
The new generation of flex,Levrone,Dillet,Yates,etc had no bearing on him retiring...why would it? the fact that none of that lot were around against Lee in the 80s etc wasn't his problem, you can only beat the best that's in front of you @ the time you were the best...and he did.
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IF Haney was so damn good, why did he call it quits after the 91 Mr. O? He barely beat Dorian. Did Haney sense that a new era was upon him? A era of Dorian, Flex, Shawn, Kevin, Chris, Dillett, Nasser, Ronnie, Charles, Darrem, Priest, Sherman, Vince. The roster of those top guys would beat anything that Haney had to put up with.
He called it quits, because he'd achieved EVERYTHING he set out to achieve in bodybuilding, the last of which was breaking Schwarzenegger's record.
He defeated Dorian Yates and Shawn Ray (multiple times) and Vince Taylor (twice). Dillett wasn't even a pro. Ronnie placed "16th" in his first Olympia.
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He called it quits, because he'd achieved EVERYTHING he set out to achieve in bodybuilding, the last of which was breaking Schwarzenegger's record.
He defeated Dorian Yates and Shawn Ray (multiple times) and Vince Taylor (twice). Dillett wasn't even a pro. Ronnie placed "16th" in his first Olympia.
well said,and haney seemed like a humble man.he had to do what it took to be mr o,but did it with class.
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no
Haney would have an easier time with latter day bb's...they simply were/are not as good
You're doing it again. You're 1990's competitors with the CURRENT crop as ALL being latter day???? Dude, how the hell can you compare a 1993 Flex Wheeler, or a 1994 Shawn Ray with ANYONE that came after 1999 with exception to Coleman (PRE-BLOATED FASE)...
Guys in the 1990's still had UNIQUE physiques (like all previous decades). Only difference was that they carried much more body mass. I AGREE that everything from 2000 and beyond should be erased from bodybuilding history as having been a disgrace to what was once a respectable sport (with exception to a very limited few).
You're not being logical. You're just being a grumpy old man.
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No i dont think that was the case Sherief, Lee retired because for him there was nothing more for him to do in Bodybuilding, he had said right from the start of his first win in 1984 that Arnolds then Olympia of 7 MR O titles wasnt in his sights...then 1 became 2 then 3-4 etc, when Lee broke Arnolds consecutive record of 6 straight (arnolds between 1970-75) in 1990 making it 7 straight he said it was beyond his wildest dreams that he could break the great Arnolds consecutive record, when asked if he was going for the outright record of 8 he said he would have to think it over...he did came out in print that he was going for the outright record of 8.
When he won in 1991 he retired because he was now down in History as the Greatest BBer in History...bar none, said it was time to move on to other goals, spend more time with his Family, his charity house work for kids, etc etc, the fact that Dorian pushed him for his last win made little difference to Lee, there was nothing more to prove etc in BBing, and he was right... people can say all they want about this guy being better and all the modern bbers being bigger/better/conditioned/etc than Lee....the fact remains in 2009 18 years after Lee last was Mr Olympia, he is STILL OFFICIALLY the greatest BBer in History tied equaled with Coleman on 8 wins each.
The new generation of flex,Levrone,Dillet,Yates,etc had no bearing on him retiring...why would it? the fact that none of that lot were around against Lee in the 80s etc wasn't his problem, you can only beat the best that's in front of you @ the time you were the best...and he did.
But would he have beat the best of the 1990's with his winning 1980's physique? THAT is the question and I don't think ANYONE has truly answered it with any real intelligence so far.
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Guys like Levrone, Wheeler and Yates would have blown him off the stage, he was too lanky for a Mr.O of the 90's...Dozer brought the mass, Ronnie took it to another level in the next era, Haney was a stringbean in comparison.
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I think if Haney had competed in 1992 he would have finished seond behind Dorian but ahead of Levrone.
In 1993 however, it would have been a different story - I would have placed him fourth behind Yates, Flex, and Shawn.
From that point onwards he would have been finished as other guys came through like Nasser, Dillett etc.
you cant really put nasser and dillett as in the same level ::).. even at his best dillett NEVER beat wheeler, levrone, or, ray.. on the other hand nasser did!!..
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No i dont think that was the case Sherief, Lee retired because for him there was nothing more for him to do in Bodybuilding, he had said right from the start of his first win in 1984 that Arnolds then Olympia of 7 MR O titles wasnt in his sights...then 1 became 2 then 3-4 etc, when Lee broke Arnolds consecutive record of 6 straight (arnolds between 1970-75) in 1990 making it 7 straight he said it was beyond his wildest dreams that he could break the great Arnolds consecutive record, when asked if he was going for the outright record of 8 he said he would have to think it over...he did came out in print that he was going for the outright record of 8.
When he won in 1991 he retired because he was now down in History as the Greatest BBer in History...bar none, said it was time to move on to other goals, spend more time with his Family, his charity house work for kids, etc etc, the fact that Dorian pushed him for his last win made little difference to Lee, there was nothing more to prove etc in BBing, and he was right... people can say all they want about this guy being better and all the modern bbers being bigger/better/conditioned/etc than Lee....the fact remains in 2009 18 years after Lee last was Mr Olympia, he is STILL OFFICIALLY the greatest BBer in History tied equaled with Coleman on 8 wins each.
The new generation of flex,Levrone,Dillet,Yates,etc had no bearing on him retiring...why would it? the fact that none of that lot were around against Lee in the 80s etc wasn't his problem, you can only beat the best that's in front of you @ the time you were the best...and he did.
you may be right johnny, i was just guessing but i really think no one can say if dorian was one of the reasons that made haney retired or not except haney himself!!..
i mean he was only 31 when he retired, if his way was still easy to take 2 more sandows or so to make it 10 i believe but i am not sure he wouldnt have retired!!.. he may have postponed his retirement 2 more years or so and at 33 or 34 he was still young to spend more of his time in whatever he wanted!..
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But would he have beat the best of the 1990's with his winning 1980's physique? THAT is the question and I don't think ANYONE has truly answered it with any real intelligence so far.
i did answered you in my first post!!..
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Yip i really do beleave Lee had nothing left to prove hed been Champion 8 years straight and the amount of sacrifice etc thats involved for that sort of reign would be huge, and while he was just 31 when he retired the passion he had for the sport in the early days would (like it would for anyone) be alot less especially @ that level year after year.
I Think Dorians package @ the 1993 MR O would of been too much for Lee even in his best shape, im not so certain about 1992 where give or take alittle in his conditioning Dorian was roughly the same as his O appearance in 1991, you know you see how long Dorian pushed on after his body started breaking down...from 1994 though to 1997 and while there's thousands of knockers on Dorians tears etc, most of them don't mention the fact that he pushed on, didnt make up excuses,showed up @ the biggest bb contest of all...and still not only competed...but won witch IMO speaks huge volumes about his sheer determination, will and character. it was Dorian not Lee IMO that actually got out @ the right time in 1997 cause bye that time his body was literally being torned apart, while in Lees case he was still in healthy position got out with his youth, health, money, and reputation as the greatest BBer ever left in tact
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Yip i really do beleave Lee had nothing left to prove hed been Champion 8 years straight and the amount of sacrifice etc thats involved for that sort of reign would be huge, and while he was just 31 when he retired the passion he had for the sport in the early days would (like it would for anyone) be alot less especially @ that level year after year.
I Think Dorians package @ the 1993 MR O would of been too much for Lee even in his best shape, im not so certain about 1992 where give or take alittle in his conditioning Dorian was roughly the same as his O appearance in 1991, you know you see how long Dorian pushed on after his body started breaking down...from 1994 though to 1997 and while there's thousands of knockers on Dorians tears etc, most of them don't mention the fact that he pushed on, didnt make up excuses,showed up @ the biggest bb contest of all...and still not only competed...but won witch IMO speaks huge volumes about his sheer determination, will and character. it was Dorian not Lee IMO that actually got out @ the right time in 1997 cause bye that time his body was literally being torned apart, while in Lees case he was still in healthy position got out with his youth, health, money, and reputation as the greatest BBer ever left in tact
good post, i totally agree with you..
this pic. shows that lee's quads were not weak as some ppl always say!!..
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If Lee Haney looked like he did in the 1980's, but began competing in 1992, rather than 1982, how would he have fared in the placings?
This is kind of a throwback to the Dexter vs. Shawn Ray thread. Lee Haney DOMINATED from 1982/1983 up until 1991 (it was a close call that year). As of 1992, the competition was MUCH more competitive. So, if he had been one of the many new rookie pro's in 1982, how would he have fared throughout the 90's, next to guys like Yates, Levrone, Wheeler, Dillett, Nasser, Cormier, Shawn Ray, etc?
Personally, I think Shawn Ray MURDERED Rich Gaspari. Charles Clairmonte murdered Berry Demey. Cormier murdered Mike Christian, etc....
Discuss.....
a 91 version of haney would have done very well during all of the 90s. a haney that would have gone pro in 92 would have taken his physique further than his 91 shape and im 100% sure he could have added even more mass and weighed 260+...and been a serious contender for the mr olympia. haney (if he took his physique further than the 91 version..which he could have..) def had the potential to beat even the 93 version of dorian.
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Guys like Levrone, Wheeler and Yates would have blown him off the stage, he was too lanky for a Mr.O of the 90's...Dozer brought the mass, Ronnie took it to another level in the next era, Haney was a stringbean in comparison.
A 259 pound stringbean ::) ::) ::) ::) ::) ::) ::) ::) ::) ::) ::) ::) ::) ::) ::) ::) ::) ::) ::)
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Yip i really do beleave Lee had nothing left to prove hed been Champion 8 years straight and the amount of sacrifice etc thats involved for that sort of reign would be huge, and while he was just 31 when he retired the passion he had for the sport in the early days would (like it would for anyone) be alot less especially @ that level year after year.
I Think Dorians package @ the 1993 MR O would of been too much for Lee even in his best shape, im not so certain about 1992 where give or take alittle in his conditioning Dorian was roughly the same as his O appearance in 1991, you know you see how long Dorian pushed on after his body started breaking down...from 1994 though to 1997 and while there's thousands of knockers on Dorians tears etc, most of them don't mention the fact that he pushed on, didnt make up excuses,showed up @ the biggest bb contest of all...and still not only competed...but won witch IMO speaks huge volumes about his sheer determination, will and character. it was Dorian not Lee IMO that actually got out @ the right time in 1997 cause bye that time his body was literally being torned apart, while in Lees case he was still in healthy position got out with his youth, health, money, and reputation as the greatest BBer ever left in tact
The initial question wasn't if Lee could take out Dorian. The question was if Lee could hold his own again the majority of the 1990's competitors (Levrone, Wheeler, Cormier, Ray, Dilett, Nasser, Clairmonte, etc....)?
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you cant really put nasser and dillett as in the same level ::).. even at his best dillett NEVER beat wheeler, levrone, or, ray.. on the other hand nasser did!!..
Check your facts sport ;)
1994 Grand Prix France , Dillett beat Nasser
1994 Grand Prix Germany , Dillett beat Nasser
1994 Mr Olympia Dillett beat Nasser
1996 Arnold Classic Dillett beat Shawn Ray
1996 Grand Prix England , Dillett beat Levrone
1996 Grand Prix Spain , Dillett beat Nasser
1996 Grand Prix Switzerland , Dillett beat Levrone
1996 Ironman Dillett beat Ray
1997 Arnold Classic Dillett beat Levrone
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The initial question wasn't if Lee could take out Dorian. The question was if Lee could hold his own again the majority of the 1990's competitors (Levrone, Wheeler, Cormier, Ray, Dilett, Nasser, Clairmonte, etc....)?
If he improved , if he stood the same physique no , Flex Wheeler 1993 Arnold Classic would beat Haney 1991
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you cant really put nasser and dillett as in the same level ::).. even at his best dillett NEVER beat wheeler, levrone, or, ray.. on the other hand nasser did!!..
Dorian put Dillett in that category. He stated that Dillet was a huge threat.
Mcway, I agree with you
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Dorian put Dillett in that category. He stated that Dillet was a huge threat.
Mcway, I agree with you
I don't ever recall him saying that ??? the only guy who he said could give him trouble was Flex
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But would he have beat the best of the 1990's with his winning 1980's physique? THAT is the question and I don't think ANYONE has truly answered it with any real intelligence so far.
The reason no one has answered the question by way of intelligence is clear....how would Ali 1966 do against Tyson 1986?....How would Rocky Marciano 1955 do against Ali 1965?...no one can answer those type of questions with certainty because all you will get is what you are getting right now in this thread....peoples/views/opinion's etc. the reason ive brought Lee and Dorian into the question is because its relivent as they have Actually competed against one another so gauging those 2 is somewhat (to a point) clearer than the others.
What is clear is that the physiques of the 1990s were the bench mark and IMO still are.
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Check your facts sport ;)
1994 Grand Prix France , Dillett beat Nasser
1994 Grand Prix Germany , Dillett beat Nasser
1994 Mr Olympia Dillett beat Nasser
1996 Arnold Classic Dillett beat Shawn Ray
1996 Grand Prix England , Dillett beat Levrone
1996 Grand Prix Spain , Dillett beat Nasser
1996 Grand Prix Switzerland , Dillett beat Levrone
1996 Ironman Dillett beat Ray
1997 Arnold Classic Dillett beat Levrone
sure i know these facts well but i was talking about the Olympia ::)
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sure i know these facts well but i was talking about the Olympia ::)
You didn't specify ;)
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For me personally, Lee Haney is head and shoulders above these fellas........physiquewi se and also as a very positive representative of the sport.
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If Haney competed in the 90s he would have had to follow the dosage pattern that he didnt want to follow and why he retired, simple as that the guy had the genetics to compete with any of those guys but he was going to have to up the dosage, he didnt want to and retired, most who have been around the sport a long time know this Haney was a very moderate type of guy who didnt believe in pushing beyone what he felt comfortable doing, The physiques of the 90s have the kidney and death carnage to show that the man knew when to retire unlike many.
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Guys like Levrone, Wheeler and Yates would have blown him off the stage, he was too lanky for a Mr.O of the 90's...Dozer brought the mass, Ronnie took it to another level in the next era, Haney was a stringbean in comparison.
Haney was a Mr. O of the 90s (90 and 91, to be exact). Once again, you're assuming that while Yates improved his size, Haney would not have been able to do the same.
Remember Haney's half-joking statement, during his farewell speech. He was JUST learning how to peak. As we saw in 1991, when Haney and Yates are approximately the same size, Haney wins due to his having better shape and proportions.
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He didn't!! Who cares!!! ::) ::)
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a 91 version of haney would have done very well during all of the 90s. a haney that would have gone pro in 92 would have taken his physique further than his 91 shape and im 100% sure he could have added even more mass and weighed 260+...and been a serious contender for the mr olympia. haney (if he took his physique further than the 91 version..which he could have..) def had the potential to beat even the 93 version of dorian.
Again, that wasn't the initial question I asked. I said if Haney present the EXACT SAME PHYSIQUE in the 1980's, but competed in the 1990's, how would he have placed against the 90's guys? Why is this so difficult to understand?
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If Haney competed in the 90s he would have had to follow the dosage pattern that he didnt want to follow and why he retired, simple as that the guy had the genetics to compete with any of those guys but he was going to have to up the dosage, he didnt want to and retired, most who have been around the sport a long time know this Haney was a very moderate type of guy who didnt believe in pushing beyone what he felt comfortable doing, The physiques of the 90s have the kidney and death carnage to show that the man knew when to retire unlike many.
All I asked if how would Haney have fared against the 1990's guys with his 1980's physique? THAT'S IT!!!
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He didn't!! Who cares!!! ::) ::)
Fuck you.
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I believe Yates Leverone Wheeler and Coleman would have beaten him quite easily hard to tell with guys like Nasser and Shawn ray and dillet as they have structurally inferior to him but have him on overall conditioning could have gone either way,
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I believe Yates Leverone Wheeler and Coleman would have beaten him quite easily hard to tell with guys like Nasser and Shawn ray and dillet as they have structurally inferior to him but have him on overall conditioning could have gone either way,
dont agree at all that levrone or wheeler would have beaten haney easily!!.. he was more complete than both of them..
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Arnold retired because he never dreamed anyone could beat 7 Oylmpia wins. Haney retired because he beat Arnold and saw that Yates was the only guy that could beat him. Everything happens for a reason. If Haney went for nine? Diesel would have beaten him.
no doubt the writing was on the wall his last year Dorian was getting bigger and harder every year, Haneys bodyweight hadnt changed for the last few years give or take a pound or two.
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dont agree at all that levrone or wheeler would have beaten haney easily!!.. he was more complete than both of them..
No offense Sherief but the physique Flex had when he won the ironman his first pro year was almost unbeatable and Kevins first olympia his legs and conditioning was his career best, I'm a Haney fan but he never got his legs tight enough to beat the flex and Leverone at their very best, overall he had a better structure than nearly everyone competing in the 90s but bodybuilding is the sum of all parts and in my opinion he would have struggled against thees guys at their absolute best.
I also believe if Haney took it up another notch or two gear wise he could have held off everyone with his genetics and given Dorian a real fight, his genetics are as good as Ronnie's in my opinion and his overall shape is much better and he has calves.
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No offense Sherief but the physique Flex had when he won the ironman his first pro year was almost unbeatable and Kevins first olympia his legs and conditioning was his career best, I'm a Haney fan but he never got his legs tight enough to beat the flex and Leverone at their very best, overall he had a better structure than nearly everyone competing in the 90s but bodybuilding is the sum of all parts and in my opinion he would have struggled against thees guys at their absolute best.
I also believe if Haney took it up another notch or two gear wise he could have held off everyone with his genetics and given Dorian a real fight, his genetics are as good as Ronnie's in my opinion and his overall shape is much better and he has calves.
somehow their abs look similar with the shape of separation (gap) between the right set and the left.. it goes without saying i am referring here to ronnie before being BIG RON WITH THE BIG GUT :D
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no doubt the writing was on the wall his last year Dorian was getting bigger and harder every year, Haneys bodyweight hadnt changed for the last few years give or take a pound or two.
Haney's bodyweight hadn't changed, because the judges told him to watch his bodyweight.
This weird attempt to paint Haney's requirement as due to fear of Yates makes no sense.
Haney accomplished all there was to accomplish. He simply took his ball and went home.
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Okay, I'll be even more specific. Who was better at their respective peaks?
Haney or Levrone?
Haney or Wheeler?
Haney or Shawn Ray?
Haney or Cormier?
Haney or Yates?
Haney or Nasser?
Haney or Dillett?
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Okay, I'll be even more specific. Who was better at their respective peaks?
Haney or Levrone?
Haney or Wheeler?
Haney or Shawn Ray?
Haney or Cormier?
Haney or Yates?
Haney or Nasser?
Haney or Dillett?
Again thats a question you can not answer with a simple well he was better than him etc, Lee Haney did not compete against any of those names @ their best and none of those guys competed against Lee @ his best with Dorian the exception.
There will be 100 different opinions on him beating him etc...cause in that persons opinion he looked bigger here,there,better conditioning etc, IMO would Flex wheeler been able to produce his best (1993) against Lee in the MR O 1991 @ that time? could Nasser of Produced his 1996 MR O shape against Lee in 1991? that answer is simple ...no because those 2 were not @ those levels in 1991 so you will never know etc etc
IMO only a prime Dorian Yates would fit the criteria from (1993 onwards) and perhaps Flex wheeler 1993 a/c better than Lee mainly because of the overall CONDATIONIG and the levels Dorian was largely responsible for and had taken the sport too at that time, however as i have mentioned could those guys have produced that same advantage in conditioning/concepts/"supplements"/technology etc AVAILABLE @ the time against Lee Haney in the 1980s-91? IMO no...you can only beat the best that is front of you in your era @ that place and time in History Lee did and so did Dorian Yates against that lot from 1992 onwards.
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Okay, I'll be even more specific. Who was better at their respective peaks?
Haney or Levrone?
Haney or Wheeler?
Haney or Shawn Ray?
Haney or Cormier?
Haney or Yates?
Haney or Nasser?Haney or Dillett?
just to answer your question directly, nasser's best beats haney's best but i agree with johnny this is not a fair comparision!!..
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Again thats a question you can not answer with a simple well he was better than him etc, Lee Haney did not compete against any of those names @ their best and none of those guys competed against Lee @ his best with Dorian the exception.
There will be 100 different opinions on him beating him etc...cause in that persons opinion he looked bigger here,there,better conditioning etc, IMO would Flex wheeler been able to produce his best (1993) against Lee in the MR O 1991 @ that time? could Nasser of Produced his 1996 MR O shape against Lee in 1991? that answer is simple ...no because those 2 were not @ those levels in 1991 so you will never know etc etc
IMO only a prime Dorian Yates would fit the criteria from (1993 onwards) and perhaps Flex wheeler 1993 a/c better than Lee mainly because of the overall CONDATIONIG and the levels Dorian was largely responsible for and had taken the sport too at that time, however as i have mentioned could those guys have produced that same advantage in conditioning/concepts/"supplements"/technology etc AVAILABLE @ the time against Lee Haney in the 1980s-91? IMO no...you can only beat the best that is front of you in your era @ that place and time in History Lee did and so did Dorian Yates against that lot from 1992 onwards.
So what's the point of even asking the question who had the greatest biceps, or quads, etc, of all time, seeing according to you they would have had to been on the same stage at the exact same time to drawn comparisons, which is a very narrow minded approach to this debate.
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Haney's bodyweight hadn't changed, because the judges told him to watch his bodyweight.
This weird attempt to paint Haney's requirement as due to fear of Yates makes no sense.
Haney accomplished all there was to accomplish. He simply took his ball and went home.
Yeah Haney retired ontop with a prime showing to wrap up an extraordinary career he has nothing to prove. Yates wanted Haney to compete in 92 I'm not sure if he gave it any thought but Yates was confident he could beat Haney
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So what's the point of even asking the question who had the greatest biceps, or quads, etc, of all time, seeing according to you they would have had to been on the same stage at the exact same time to drawn comparisons, which is a very narrow minded approach to this debate.
No i don't think its narrow minded, id think it would be more that way for people to automatically assume he "Looked better" and would "beat him"... and as Ive said there will be 100 opinion's more from others here, just as sherief has posted side by side comparisons between Haney and Nasser...so when people look @ those comparisons obviously by looking @ those particular pictures they will say "well Nasser looks better than Lee"...when i look @ those comparisons i think...different lighting...scaled differently...different angles...Lee from Different years (1990 his worst with that MM) and more to the point they NOT side by side on stage @ the same time etc etc, Haney IMO had a better structure and flow to his physique (BBing wise) than Nasser but again thats my opinion im sure sherief and others may think otherwise but we all have different ideas on what WE perceive as "whos better" and yeah he would be
"beat him" etc...
your question and debate is a good speculative thought provoking one, however IMO its a moot point as there will be 100 different opinions on why he was better than him thus the two and throw between us on the subject.
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If you doubt King Haney's physique, you are either too young, or too caught up in all the drugged out physiques of today.......Haney's physique had a class that not many could have matched......the guys today are just getting bigger......BUT FAR FROM BETTER!!! IMHO
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If Lee Haney looked like he did in the 1980's, but began competing in 1992, rather than 1982, how would he have fared in the placings?
This is kind of a throwback to the Dexter vs. Shawn Ray thread. Lee Haney DOMINATED from 1982/1983 up until 1991 (it was a close call that year). As of 1992, the competition was MUCH more competitive. So, if he had been one of the many new rookie pro's in 1982, how would he have fared throughout the 90's, next to guys like Yates, Levrone, Wheeler, Dillett, Nasser, Cormier, Shawn Ray, etc?
Personally, I think Shawn Ray MURDERED Rich Gaspari. Charles Clairmonte murdered Berry Demey. Cormier murdered Mike Christian, etc....
Discuss.....
Same champion but instead of 18 inches calves maybe 20 inches.
WhhhhOOOSSSHHHHHHHHHHHHH H
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Haney had the genetics and work-ethic to surpass Dorian at his best. I always hear speculation that Haney would have lost to Dorian in 92. This may be true since their goals were different. Haney saw bodybuilding as an art and strived to put the finishing touches on an already near perfect physique, while Dorian focused on becoming bigger. I truly believe if Haney lost to Dorian, he would have done whatever it takes to ensure that doesn't happen again.
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hard work + genetics >>> hard work
(http://i60.photobucket.com/albums/h29/NeoSeminole/Lee%20Haney/LeeHaney25.jpg)
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IF Haney was so damn good, why did he call it quits after the 91 Mr. O? He barely beat Dorian. Did Haney sense that a new era was upon him? A era of Dorian, Flex, Shawn, Kevin, Chris, Dillett, Nasser, Ronnie, Charles, Darrem, Priest, Sherman, Vince. The roster of those top guys would beat anything that Haney had to put up with.
That is ridiculous. Why would Haney be worried about a bunch of guys, who hadn't even TURNED PRO, YET, let alone stepped on an Olympia stage?
The exceptions to that list are Shawn Ray, Dorian Yates, and Vince Taylor. At last check, Haney beat Dorian Yates and took down Ray and Taylor (at least TWICE).
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Lee would’ve used the appropriate drugs to increase his overall size to hold off his competitors. This is what Yates did. This is what Coleman did. This is what Jay does.
The only one who could’ve possibly caught him was probably Yates providing he peaked well and Haney didn’t.
Just look at Levrone on and off the sauce. The difference is downright laughable.
Some more drugs, slight increases to his bis and tris, peaking correctly, and it’s a done deal.