Scenario: If Lee Haney competed in the 1990's, NOT the 1980's

[wild willie]

For me personally, Lee Haney is head and shoulders above these fellas........physiquewi se and also as a very positive representative of the sport.

[honest]

If Haney competed in the 90s he would have had to follow the dosage pattern that he didnt want to follow and why he retired, simple as that the guy had the genetics to compete with any of those guys but he was going to have to up the dosage, he didnt want to and retired, most who have been around the sport a long time know this Haney was a very moderate type of guy who didnt believe in pushing beyone what he felt comfortable doing, The physiques of the 90s have the kidney and death carnage to show that the man knew when to retire unlike many.

[MCWAY]

Guys like Levrone, Wheeler and Yates would have blown him off the stage, he was too lanky for a Mr.O of the 90's...Dozer brought the mass, Ronnie took it to another level in the next era, Haney was a stringbean in comparison.

Haney was a Mr. O of the 90s (90 and 91, to be exact). Once again, you're assuming that while Yates improved his size, Haney would not have been able to do the same.

Remember Haney's half-joking statement, during his farewell speech. He was JUST learning how to peak. As we saw in 1991, when Haney and Yates are approximately the same size, Haney wins due to his having better shape and proportions.

[Sir Bigness]

He didn't!! Who cares!!!   

[Danimal77]

a 91 version of haney would have done very well during all of the 90s. a haney that would have gone pro in 92 would have taken his physique further than his 91 shape and im 100% sure he could have added even more mass and weighed 260+...and been a serious contender for the mr olympia. haney (if he took  his physique further than the 91 version..which he could have..) def had the potential to beat even the 93 version of dorian.

Again, that wasn't the initial question I asked. I said if Haney present the EXACT SAME PHYSIQUE in the 1980's, but competed in the 1990's, how would he have placed against the 90's guys? Why is this so difficult to understand?

[Danimal77]

If Haney competed in the 90s he would have had to follow the dosage pattern that he didnt want to follow and why he retired, simple as that the guy had the genetics to compete with any of those guys but he was going to have to up the dosage, he didnt want to and retired, most who have been around the sport a long time know this Haney was a very moderate type of guy who didnt believe in pushing beyone what he felt comfortable doing, The physiques of the 90s have the kidney and death carnage to show that the man knew when to retire unlike many.

All I asked if how would Haney have fared against the 1990's guys with his 1980's physique? THAT'S IT!!!

[Danimal77]

He didn't!! Who cares!!!   

Fuck you.

[honest]

I believe Yates Leverone Wheeler and Coleman would have beaten him quite easily hard to tell with guys like Nasser and Shawn ray and dillet as they have structurally inferior to him but have him on overall conditioning could have gone either way,

[Sherief Shalaby]

I believe Yates Leverone Wheeler and Coleman would have beaten him quite easily hard to tell with guys like Nasser and Shawn ray and dillet as they have structurally inferior to him but have him on overall conditioning could have gone either way,

dont agree at all that levrone or wheeler would have beaten haney easily!!.. he was more complete than both of them..

[honest]

Arnold retired because he never dreamed anyone could beat 7 Oylmpia wins. Haney retired because he beat Arnold and saw that Yates was the only guy that could beat him. Everything happens for a reason. If Haney went for nine? Diesel would have beaten him.

no doubt the writing was on the wall his last year Dorian was getting bigger and harder every year, Haneys bodyweight hadnt changed for the last few years give or take a pound or two. 

[honest]

dont agree at all that levrone or wheeler would have beaten haney easily!!.. he was more complete than both of them..

No offense Sherief but the physique Flex had when he won the ironman his first pro year was almost unbeatable and Kevins first olympia his legs and conditioning was his career best, I'm  a Haney fan but he never got his legs tight enough to beat the flex and Leverone at their very best, overall he had a better structure than nearly everyone competing in the 90s but bodybuilding is the sum of all parts and in my opinion he would have struggled against thees guys at their absolute best.
I also believe if Haney took it up another notch or two gear wise he could have held off everyone with his genetics and given Dorian a real fight, his genetics are as good as Ronnie's in my opinion and his overall shape is much better and he has calves. 

[Sherief Shalaby]

No offense Sherief but the physique Flex had when he won the ironman his first pro year was almost unbeatable and Kevins first olympia his legs and conditioning was his career best, I'm  a Haney fan but he never got his legs tight enough to beat the flex and Leverone at their very best, overall he had a better structure than nearly everyone competing in the 90s but bodybuilding is the sum of all parts and in my opinion he would have struggled against thees guys at their absolute best.
I also believe if Haney took it up another notch or two gear wise he could have held off everyone with his genetics and given Dorian a real fight, his genetics are as good as Ronnie's in my opinion and his overall shape is much better and he has calves. 

somehow their abs look similar with the shape of separation (gap) between the right set and the left.. it goes without saying i am referring here to ronnie before being BIG RON WITH THE BIG GUT

[MCWAY]

no doubt the writing was on the wall his last year Dorian was getting bigger and harder every year, Haneys bodyweight hadnt changed for the last few years give or take a pound or two. 

Haney's bodyweight hadn't changed, because the judges told him to watch his bodyweight.

This weird attempt to paint Haney's requirement as due to fear of Yates makes no sense.

Haney accomplished all there was to accomplish. He simply took his ball and went home.

[Danimal77]

Okay, I'll be even more specific. Who was better at their respective peaks?

Haney or Levrone?
Haney or Wheeler?
Haney or Shawn Ray?
Haney or Cormier?
Haney or Yates?
Haney or Nasser?
Haney or Dillett?

[johnny1]

Okay, I'll be even more specific. Who was better at their respective peaks?

Haney or Levrone?
Haney or Wheeler?
Haney or Shawn Ray?
Haney or Cormier?
Haney or Yates?
Haney or Nasser?
Haney or Dillett?

Again thats a question you can not answer with a simple well he was better than him etc, Lee Haney did not compete against any of those names @ their best and none of those guys competed against Lee @ his best with Dorian the exception.

There will be 100 different opinions on him beating him etc...cause in that persons opinion he looked bigger here,there,better conditioning etc, IMO would Flex wheeler been able to produce his best (1993) against Lee in the MR O 1991 @ that time? could Nasser of Produced his 1996 MR O shape against Lee in 1991? that answer is simple ...no because those 2 were not @ those levels in 1991 so you will never  know etc etc

IMO only a prime Dorian Yates would fit the criteria from (1993 onwards) and perhaps Flex wheeler 1993 a/c better than Lee mainly because of the overall CONDATIONIG and the levels Dorian was largely responsible for and had taken the sport too at that time, however as i have mentioned could those guys have produced that same advantage in conditioning/concepts/"supplements"/technology etc AVAILABLE @ the time against Lee Haney in the 1980s-91? IMO no...you can only beat the best that is front of you in your era @ that place and time in History Lee did and so did Dorian Yates against that lot from 1992 onwards.

[Sherief Shalaby]

Okay, I'll be even more specific. Who was better at their respective peaks?

Haney or Levrone?
Haney or Wheeler?
Haney or Shawn Ray?
Haney or Cormier?
Haney or Yates?
Haney or Nasser?Haney or Dillett?

just to answer your question directly, nasser's best beats haney's best but i agree with johnny this is not a fair comparision!!..

[Sherief Shalaby]

..

[Danimal77]

Again thats a question you can not answer with a simple well he was better than him etc, Lee Haney did not compete against any of those names @ their best and none of those guys competed against Lee @ his best with Dorian the exception.

There will be 100 different opinions on him beating him etc...cause in that persons opinion he looked bigger here,there,better conditioning etc, IMO would Flex wheeler been able to produce his best (1993) against Lee in the MR O 1991 @ that time? could Nasser of Produced his 1996 MR O shape against Lee in 1991? that answer is simple ...no because those 2 were not @ those levels in 1991 so you will never  know etc etc

IMO only a prime Dorian Yates would fit the criteria from (1993 onwards) and perhaps Flex wheeler 1993 a/c better than Lee mainly because of the overall CONDATIONIG and the levels Dorian was largely responsible for and had taken the sport too at that time, however as i have mentioned could those guys have produced that same advantage in conditioning/concepts/"supplements"/technology etc AVAILABLE @ the time against Lee Haney in the 1980s-91? IMO no...you can only beat the best that is front of you in your era @ that place and time in History Lee did and so did Dorian Yates against that lot from 1992 onwards.

So what's the point of even asking the question who had the greatest biceps, or quads, etc, of all time, seeing according to you they would have had to been on the same stage at the exact same time to drawn comparisons, which is a very narrow minded approach to this debate.

[NarcissisticDeity]

Haney's bodyweight hadn't changed, because the judges told him to watch his bodyweight.

This weird attempt to paint Haney's requirement as due to fear of Yates makes no sense.

Haney accomplished all there was to accomplish. He simply took his ball and went home.

Yeah Haney retired ontop with a prime showing to wrap up an extraordinary career he has nothing to prove. Yates wanted Haney to compete in 92 I'm not sure if he gave it any thought but Yates was confident he could beat Haney

[johnny1]

So what's the point of even asking the question who had the greatest biceps, or quads, etc, of all time, seeing according to you they would have had to been on the same stage at the exact same time to drawn comparisons, which is a very narrow minded approach to this debate.

No i don't think its narrow minded, id think it would be more that way for people to automatically assume he "Looked better" and would "beat him"... and as Ive said there will be 100 opinion's more from others here, just as sherief has posted side by side comparisons between Haney and Nasser...so when people look @ those comparisons obviously by looking @ those particular pictures they will say "well Nasser looks better than Lee"...when i look @ those comparisons i think...different lighting...scaled differently...different angles...Lee from Different years (1990 his worst with that MM) and more to the point they NOT side by side on stage @ the same time etc etc, Haney IMO had a better structure and flow to his physique (BBing wise) than Nasser but again thats my opinion im sure sherief and others may think otherwise but we all have different ideas on what WE perceive as "whos better" and yeah he would be
"beat him" etc...

your question and debate is a good speculative thought provoking one, however IMO its a moot point as there will be 100 different opinions on why he was better than him thus the two and throw between us on the subject.

[wild willie]

If you doubt King Haney's physique, you are either too young, or too caught up in all the drugged out physiques of today.......Haney's physique had a class that not many could have matched......the guys today are just getting bigger......BUT FAR FROM BETTER!!! IMHO

[hipolito mejia]

If Lee Haney looked like he did in the 1980's, but began competing in 1992, rather than 1982, how would he have fared in the placings?

This is kind of a throwback to the Dexter vs. Shawn Ray thread. Lee Haney DOMINATED from 1982/1983 up until 1991 (it was a close call that year). As of 1992, the competition was MUCH more competitive. So, if he had been one of the many new rookie pro's in 1982, how would he have fared throughout the 90's, next to guys like Yates, Levrone, Wheeler, Dillett, Nasser, Cormier, Shawn Ray, etc?

Personally, I think Shawn Ray MURDERED Rich Gaspari. Charles Clairmonte murdered Berry Demey. Cormier murdered Mike Christian, etc....

Discuss.....

Same champion but instead of 18 inches calves maybe 20 inches.


WhhhhOOOSSSHHHHHHHHHHHHH H

[NeoSeminole]

Haney had the genetics and work-ethic to surpass Dorian at his best. I always hear speculation that Haney would have lost to Dorian in 92. This may be true since their goals were different. Haney saw bodybuilding as an art and strived to put the finishing touches on an already near perfect physique, while Dorian focused on becoming bigger. I truly believe if Haney lost to Dorian, he would have done whatever it takes to ensure that doesn't happen again.

[NeoSeminole]

hard work + genetics >>> hard work

[MCWAY]

IF Haney was so damn good, why did he call it quits after the 91 Mr. O? He barely beat Dorian. Did Haney sense that a new era was upon him? A era of Dorian, Flex, Shawn, Kevin, Chris, Dillett, Nasser, Ronnie, Charles, Darrem, Priest, Sherman, Vince. The roster of those top guys would beat anything that Haney had to put up with.

That is ridiculous. Why would Haney be worried about a bunch of guys, who hadn't even TURNED PRO, YET, let alone stepped on an Olympia stage?

The exceptions to that list are Shawn Ray, Dorian Yates, and Vince Taylor. At last check, Haney beat Dorian Yates and took down Ray and Taylor (at least TWICE).