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Getbig Main Boards => Gossip & Opinions => Topic started by: Roger Bacon on August 04, 2013, 05:19:57 PM
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Mainstream science is never right the first, second, third, fourth time... ::)
http://www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/2013/07/31/evidence-for-new-physics-_n_3684411.html?ncid=edlinkusaolp00000009
First evidence that the universe is not as we know it has emerged from the Large Hadron Collider (LHC), the giant atom-smashing machine built to recreate conditions at the dawn of time.
Confirmation of the results, showing minute deviations in the behaviour of a sub-atomic particle, would indicate the existence of a 'new physics' model of the universe.
Evidence For 'New Physics' Means Universe Is Not As We Know It
PA | Posted: 31/07/2013 21:12 BST | Updated: 02/08/2013 10:03 BST PA
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CMS Detector, European Physics Society, Atom-Smashing Machine, B Quark And a d Antiquark, Large Hadron Collider, New Physics, Standard Model, Universe, UK Tech News
First evidence that the universe is not as we know it has emerged from the Large Hadron Collider (LHC), the giant atom-smashing machine built to recreate conditions at the dawn of time.
Confirmation of the results, showing minute deviations in the behaviour of a sub-atomic particle, would indicate the existence of a 'new physics' model of the universe.
milky way
Our view and place in the universe may have to be revised
Until now scientists have relied on the 'Standard Model', a description of the nuts and bolts mechanics of the universe - its particles and forces - that has worked well but contains serious gaps.
For instance, the Standard Model cannot explain phenomena such as dark matter, invisible material that shrouds galaxies and holds them together, or gravity.
The term 'new physics' was coined to describe more fundamental theories that go beyond the Standard Model, some of which involve strange concepts such as tiny vibrating "strings" and extra dimensions.
A Spanish and French team has now announced results that could be the first indication of a New Physics reality.
They involve data from the LHCb, one of the giant detectors that form part of the LHC on the French-Swiss border.
Scientists were measuring the decay of a fundamental particle called the B meson. They revealed deviations from what was predicted by the Standard Model that show a coherent pattern, and are consistent with New Physics.
The findings amount to a significant 'proof' level of 4.5 sigmas - just under the level of five sigmas which is regarded as a bona fide discovery.
If confirmed by other teams, it amounts to a 'major event' pointing to a realm beyond the Standard Model, say the physicists.
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so god did it in six days?
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When will humans realize we will never know the origins of the universe (other than no such thing as god) and quit fooling ourselves.
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You should probably know that a catholic priest came up with the big bang theory P.I.P...
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When will humans realize we will never know the origins of the universe (other than no such thing as god) and quit fooling ourselves.
It's crazy, my brain can't fathom "nothing" as it existed before the universe. What did nothing look like, was it empty space, or was there not even that? Where did it all come from, and what created it. Shit is wild.
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You should probably know that a catholic priest came up with the big bang theory P.I.P...
The Big Bang Theory is widely accepted and endorsed by mainstream science broseph.
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It's crazy, my brain can't fathom "nothing" as it existed before the universe. What did nothing look like, was it empty space, or was there not even that? Where did it all come from, and what created it. Shit is wild.
Exactly. It's just so far beyond us. We know nothing really and never will.
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Exactly. It's just so far beyond us. We know nothing really and never will.
What gets me is the universe not being infinite. Like he said.... WTF...
Space which is basically "nothing", than a wall of nothing, with nothing beyond it.
What the fuck? ???
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Can't even wrap my mind around infinite. Everything we know has limits. Maybe the religious people are right? :-\
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When will humans realize we will never know the origins of the universe (other than no such thing as god) and quit fooling ourselves.
X1000
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The Big Bang Theory is widely accepted and endorsed by mainstream science broseph.
My mistake, I thought you were a religious nut or something the way you wrote science being wrong all the time.
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My mistake, I thought you were a religious nut or something the way you wrote science being wrong all the time.
No, just a regular nut.... ;D
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Does there have to be a beginning and an end to the universe? Could it be that we just want there to be a beginning and an end because everything in our tiny lives does.
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nah ;D
i can easy imagine that, jst takes a while to get used to that thinking.
as for universe borders, most of the universe is nothing, and what is nothing is up to definition itself.
btw its also interesting how and what we see from milky way.
another thing is, does the universe spread out,growing, in 360degreess angle like roundhouse kick, or rather 2 dimensional, and from where, where was ground zero.
and if it spreads out at lightspeed in 1 way, and science says nothing can be faster than light, but universe expands in many directions at same time with lightspeed, so it spread faster than light,no?imagine 2 trains moving apart from eachother in 2d.
ah this is brain wrecker.
:o
Yeah, I was reading something legit the other day about light not being the universal speed limit after all. Crazy stuff
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Can't even wrap my mind around infinite. Everything we know has limits. Maybe the religious people are right? :-\
Lol. Makes you think, huh?
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Can't even wrap my mind around infinite. Everything we know has limits. Maybe the religious people are right? :-\
I believe the human mind can understand anything. You understand infinite, you just can't visualize it.
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Anyone here look into the mulitverse theory? Creepy stuff looking at the stars on a clear night just thinking there could unlimited amounts of yourself staring back at you, as well as what ever else could be out there. :o
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This is why they re called THEORIES...
I believe the human mind can understand anything. You understand infinite, you just can't visualize it.
It is probably only able to understand what it was designed to understand.
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This is why they re called THEORIES...
Okay...... Good point!!! ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D
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they explain the nothing in the movie Never Ending Story you fools
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X1000
+my wifes×your wifes ass ^infinity
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so god did it in six days?
Hmm.. looks that way
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ha conundrum maybe it would take getbig to figure out the nature of the universe, but then again maybe there is none..
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the discovery of a new brand of physics is outstanding! It's these types of events that have exponential leaps forward in energy use, interstellar flight, life extension, etc. Fan-fucking-tastic!
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the discovery of a new brand of physics is outstanding! It's these types of events that have exponential leaps forward in energy use, interstellar flight, life extension, etc. Fan-fucking-tastic!
Not sure if cereal...
Seriously though, does this mean every person that took/studied/obsessed over physics has now just wasted his time? Lulz.
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Well, as a Christian. I say I can't prove to you God exists. But you can't prove to me he doesn't.
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Well, as a Christian. I say I can't prove to you God exists. But you can't prove to me he doesn't.
thats great thanks
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they explain the nothing in the movie Never Ending Story you fools
Oh fuck, I saw that in 6th grade on the last day of school. :o
That movie mind fucked me pretty bad as a kid.
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Can't even wrap my mind around infinite. Everything we know has limits. Maybe the religious people are right? :-\
;)
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You guys always changing your stance, lololol. The Bible never changes and has been and always will be right.
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Can't even wrap my mind around infinite. Everything we know has limits. Maybe the religious people are right? :-\
:-*
Open a Bible or go to Bible study and you'll see that we aren't kooks after all.
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Welcome to Getbig "Las Vegas"
;D
Great ::)
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From what I understand, this is a possible explanation for the bias towards the creation of more matter than antimatter at the moment of creation (the big bang)... not a reconsideration of the big bang theory.
The big bang theory is both liked and disliked by creationists; liked because it suggests a beginning of time and moment of creation, and disliked because it explains the origin of the universe and fits into a timeline of the universe being more than a mere 6000 years old. Make up your minds!
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It's crazy, my brain can't fathom "nothing" as it existed before the universe. What did nothing look like, was it empty space, or was there not even that? Where did it all come from, and what created it. Shit is wild.
Do you remember what it was like before you were born?
There you got ;D thats nothing!
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Can't even wrap my mind around infinite. Everything we know has limits. Maybe the religious people are right? :-\
of course you cant. you are a moron.
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humans only put up models to explain phenomenon that coincide with discovery and allow accurate predictions.
each model is better than the last, and arguably, none are ever right.
its as simple as that.
they are always being refined as we learn more.
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Wait...what? Science can't get it right? Say it ain't so. Mmmm, I guess there's only one other explanation!!!
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In before the classic meltdown including an extra-terrestrial Obama and glute shots. ::)
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getbig.com, is probably not the best place to discuss/discover the meaning of the universe.
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this thread is just full of bad science - light speed cannot be exceeded if you move at light speed away from a photon going the other way (at light speed) you would measure it going at light speed (NOT 2X light speed) - why? because time is relative, time slows down for you thus making your measurement of speed slower.
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Well, as a Christian. I say I can't prove to you God exists. But you can't prove to me he doesn't.
I also can't prove to you that a pink unicorn that speaks Gaelic, sounds like Morgan Freeman and farts cotton candy doesn't exist either...
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this thread is just full of bad science - light speed cannot be exceeded if you move at light speed away from a photon going the other way (at light speed) you would measure it going at light speed (NOT 2X light speed) - why? because time is relative, time slows down for you thus making your measurement of speed slower.
It's more accurate to say that the speed of light cannot be exceeded by anything that has mass, at least according to our current understanding of physics.
I would normally type a quite long post discussing things like Lorentz invariance, the Poynting-Robertson effect, static fields, aberration and other fancy things but it's almost 4:00am. Suffice it to say that gravity, as we understand it, can propagate at speeds that are far, far faster than the speed of light. In quantum mechanics too, things like "spooky action at a distance" (aka quantum entanglement) can propagate at superluminal speeds.
With all that said, I'd love to see new breakthroughs in physics - the kind that people like Einstein, Heisenberg, Maxwell, Bohr, Feynman, Gell-Mann, Fermi and so many others gave us. If old theories were inaccurate and/or incomplete I wont be sad either. I'll be giddy with excitement and way too busy studying the new ones and trying to apply them in practice.
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Is that a TV show??
A very badly written, and terribly cliche ridden show...If God exists, he sure is taking his merry old sweet time in making it go away...
And the replacement maybe "New Physics Theory" where Mayim Bialik and America Ferrera (Ugly Betty) are two single Applied Physicists who pain the town and the lecture halls red...
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It's crazy, my brain can't fathom "nothing" as it existed before the universe. What did nothing look like, was it empty space, or was there not even that? Where did it all come from, and what created it. Shit is wild.
There was always something.
Every time your mind fails to fathom this "nothing", remember - that's something made up by idiots.
Whilst there is no necessity that physics is the same outside this universe, throughout our own universe the law that energy can not be created or destroyed remains in place.
This means every single scrap of energy you are composed of WILL exist on.
And you are only composed of energy.
Everything that you are will exist until the end of time.
Baring that in mind (that there is no such mechanic to "destroy" even a single joule of energy in this universe), which is more likely, nothing - or always something?
Or believe in God. He's not real, but that doesn't matter to most people. They read that physicists are rethinking their idea of the first nanosecond of the universe and think that proves their fake deity is real. I find their close minded, morose summaries of nothing-news (and it is the type of physics news we read on DAY TO DAY basis, in the real world - where ideas can be debated and rethought).
There is no surety in the origins of your existence - believing in bullshit that deep down, you know is wrong won't change that. Just makes you look like a dick when you take the speck of a pop culture physics article and attempt to discredit hundreds of years of very very accurate work. Absolutely nothing you currently sit infront of would be working, had a physicist not absolutely nailed the science involved.
Unbelievable - one article and god is real ::)
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This is why they re called THEORIES...
As opposed to dogma.
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this thread is just full of bad science - light speed cannot be exceeded if you move at light speed away from a photon going the other way (at light speed) you would measure it going at light speed (NOT 2X light speed) - why? because time is relative, time slows down for you thus making your measurement of speed slower.
Wasn't going to chime in here much because I come here to ESCAPE science, not talk about it. But current (yes, I know, it's going away) "big bang" theory has the original bang expanding at quite a bit more than C. This was traditionally accepted because "mumble, mumble" the laws of this universe (love that multiverse theory) state that the speed of light is fixed and inviolate, but those laws were not yet baked into the universe at the time.
In any event, it's an exciting time for the next 20 years of so in physics. I just need to continue to encourage my son, who, at 10, has determined that HE will be the one to "figure out" the standard model of gravity. Love his moxie.
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I just need to continue to encourage my son, who, at 10, has determined that HE will be the one to "figure out" the standard model of gravity. Love his moxie.
Great stuff - that sounds like a decent son.
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So what I gathered from this thread is that a catabolic priest created the big bang ???
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There was always something.
Every time your mind fails to fathom this "nothing", remember - that's something made up by idiots.
Whilst there is no necessity that physics is the same outside this universe, throughout our own universe the law that energy can not be created or destroyed remains in place.
This means every single scrap of energy you are composed of WILL exist on.
And you are only composed of energy.
Everything that you are will exist until the end of time.
Baring that in mind (that there is no such mechanic to "destroy" even a single joule of energy in this universe), which is more likely, nothing - or always something?
Or believe in God. He's not real, but that doesn't matter to most people. They read that physicists are rethinking their idea of the first nanosecond of the universe and think that proves their fake deity is real. I find their close minded, morose summaries of nothing-news (and it is the type of physics news we read on DAY TO DAY basis, in the real world - where ideas can be debated and rethought).
There is no surety in the origins of your existence - believing in bullshit that deep down, you know is wrong won't change that. Just makes you look like a dick when you take the speck of a pop culture physics article and attempt to discredit hundreds of years of very very accurate work. Absolutely nothing you currently sit infront of would be working, had a physicist not absolutely nailed the science involved.
Unbelievable - one article and god is real ::)
Where did the "something" come from? And believe me, I'm not sure about god, as I don't go to church and find it hard to believe, especially in the form we are lead to believe. It's just interesting to think that there was a beginning, but at what point?
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Where did the "something" come from? And believe me, I'm not sure about god, as I don't go to church and find it hard to believe, especially in the form we are lead to believe. It's just interesting to think that there was a beginning, but at what point?
Why did it have to come from anything? Perhaps the nature of existence is 'something' rather than 'nothing.'
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You guys always changing your stance, lololol. The Bible never changes and has been and always will be right.
That's not true. Fucking little kids isn't accepted like it used to be.
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I guess I don't understand all the fuss.....wasn't this the point of supercollider.....to help find new information? The field of physics is gaining some new information and may possibly update some of their original models, but isn't this what we always do with newly discovered information? Determine if the current models/theories need revision based on the new findings? Isn't this the normal course for scientific explorers seeking the truth?
Feels like par for the course in my book.
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Oh fuck, I saw that in 6th grade on the last day of school. :o
That movie mind fucked me pretty bad as a kid.
yes its always been one of my favorites movies i saw as a kid
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When will humans realize we will never know the origins of the universe (other than no such thing as god) and quit fooling ourselves.
I watch these shows about the Universe and it drives me nuts how scientists talk about the Big Bang with such certainty. How the fuck do they know. So some mini nugget blew up and created this big space? Same as religion. Where did God come from then? This whole thing is just fucked up.
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Wasn't going to chime in here much because I come here to ESCAPE science, not talk about it. But current (yes, I know, it's going away) "big bang" theory has the original bang expanding at quite a bit more than C. This was traditionally accepted because "mumble, mumble" the laws of this universe (love that multiverse theory) state that the speed of light is fixed and inviolate, but those laws were not yet baked into the universe at the time.
In any event, it's an exciting time for the next 20 years of so in physics. I just need to continue to encourage my son, who, at 10, has determined that HE will be the one to "figure out" the standard model of gravity. Love his moxie.
Wait till he gets interested in girls...
What no man has figured out...
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Pro Golfer Phil Mickelson's ego is so ballooned, he made the public comment that he remembers thinking of becoming a professional golfer before he could walk. Imagine the type of bullshit he would sling around if he were a scientist :-\
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I watch these shows about the Universe and it drives me nuts how scientists talk about the Big Bang with such certainty. How the fuck do they know. So some mini nugget blew up and created this big space? Same as religion. Where did God come from then? This whole thing is just fucked up.
God has always been and always will be. He is outside of the realm of time.
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God has always been and always will be. He is outside of the realm of time.
LMAO ;D
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LMAO ;D
What's so funny about that? A being that created the universe could not have the laws of Time and Space apply to him. He is timeless, changeless and eternal. I know it sounds funny and we can't really comprehend something that has always been because to us, everything has a cause. And everything we know has an ending or beginning. Not with God. The Bible states this many times.
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What's so funny about that? A being that created the universe could not have the laws of Time and Space apply to him. He is timeless, changeless and eternal. I know it sounds funny and we can't really comprehend something that has always been because to us, everything has a cause. And everything we know has an ending or beginning. Not with God. The Bible states this many times.
keep ' believing ' that , it's all you can do.
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There was always something
all-ways
in all directions
or you could say
always nothing
all-ways is implying directional paths and that IS something haha perhaps 'nothing' in the path of ALL-WAYS or all directional paths would create alot of matter something to do with physics always
lets say an ALL-ways of nothing would CREATE a vacuum of matter :o
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LMAO ;D
you can laugh at that all you want but the alternatives are time goes back infinitely and that is just as laughable because that is an impossible scenario, another option is time had a beginning which is equally as laughable because that too is an impossible scenario.
No matter how you slice it, all possibilities lead to laughable, irrational and illogical scenarios. So laugh away at a the concept of a creator when any concept you come up with is laughable as well, very logical ND
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you can laugh at that all you want but the alternatives are time goes back infinitely and that is just as laughable because that is an impossible scenario, another option is time had a beginning which is equally as laughable because that too is an impossible scenario.
No matter how you slice it, all possibilities lead to laughable, irrational and illogical scenarios. So laugh away at a the concept of a creator when any concept you come up with is laughable as well, very logical ND
Time didn't exist before the ' The Big Bang '
God Could not Create the Universe Because There Was No Time for Him to Do So
http://theosophical.wordpress.com/2012/01/04/stephen-hawking-god-could-not-create-the-universe-because-there-was-no-time-for-him-to-do-so/
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you can laugh at that all you want but the alternatives are time goes back infinitely and that is just as laughable because that is an impossible scenario, another option is time had a beginning which is equally as laughable because that too is an impossible scenario.
The term "beginning" implies a causal relationship that only has meaning within a framework in which causal relationships exist; can you define causal relationships divorced from the concept of time? Remember, once you're divorced from the concept of time, words like "before" and "after" don't have any meaning.
Sidenote: People, generally, have significant issues with concepts involving infinities. You ought to see students whose eyes glaze over when you tell them that there some infinities that are bigger than others, that some infinities are countable and others aren't. It's particularly funny to see them struggle to understand a classic thought experiment involving a hotel that has infinitely many rooms, all occupied, especially when you tell them that the hotel, despite being full, can still accomodate one more guest, and one more, and one more, and, indeed, countably infinitely many more.
But I digress... time is infinite in the sense that it has always existed and always will exist; it's a fundamental property of the fabric of the Universe: space-time.
"Ahh!" you might say, "What about outside the Universe? There was no time there." It's important to remember that what's outside the Universe is (for now, anyways) outside the realm of science, and outside the realm of logic. Science concerns itself with the natural. Not the supernatural. If you're interested in the supernatural, by all means, seek the mystics who gain knowledge in unknowable ways using unknowable means.
No matter how you slice it, all possibilities lead to laughable, irrational and illogical scenarios.
Not really. If I may ask, how do you know that all possibilities lead to "laughable, irrational and illogical scenarios?" Do you really know all the scientific theories, the mythos and lore surrounding cosmogony? Do you fully understand all those things? Something tells me the answer to both questions is "no."
So laugh away at a the concept of a creator when any concept you come up with is laughable as well, very logical ND
I laugh at the concept of a creator because it's a "concept" that is proposed as an explanation and which explains nothing. It's a concept that starts with the notion that everything requires a creator, including the Universe, before turning around and asserting, unconditionally that the creator doesn't require a creator.
Despite your particular religious beliefs, you can see how that is, at least, contradictory. Right?
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The term "beginning" implies a causal relationship that only has meaning within a framework in which causal relationships exist; can you define causal relationships divorced from the concept of time? Remember, once you're divorced from the concept of time, words like "before" and "after" don't have any meaning.
Sidenote: People, generally, have significant issues with concepts involving infinities. You ought to see students whose eyes glaze over when you tell them that there some infinities that are bigger than others, that some infinities are countable and others aren't. It's particularly funny to see them struggle to understand a classic thought experiment involving a hotel that has infinitely many rooms, all occupied, especially when you tell them that the hotel, despite being full, can still accomodate one more guest, and one more, and one more, and, indeed, countably infinitely many more.
But I digress... time is infinite in the sense that it has always existed and always will exist; it's a fundamental property of the fabric of the Universe: space-time.
"Ahh!" you might say, "What about outside the Universe? There was no time there." It's important to remember that what's outside the Universe is (for now, anyways) outside the realm of science, and outside the realm of logic. Science concerns itself with the natural. Not the supernatural. If you're interested in the supernatural, by all means, seek the mystics who gain knowledge in unknowable ways using unknowable means.
Not really. If I may ask, how do you know that all possibilities lead to "laughable, irrational and illogical scenarios?" Do you really know all the scientific theories, the mythos and lore surrounding cosmogony? Do you fully understand all those things? Something tells me the answer to both questions is "no."
I laugh at the concept of a creator because it's a "concept" that is proposed as an explanation and which explains nothing. It's a concept that starts with the notion that everything requires a creator, including the Universe, before turning around and asserting, unconditionally that the creator doesn't require a creator.
Despite your particular religious beliefs, you can see how that is, at least, contradictory. Right?
You are a fucken retard cause you missed my point entirely, we have been through this, no scenario makes sense and you fucken know it so stop with the fucken paragraph after paragraph of junk that I will not even read.
The fact remains, any explanation does not make sense period, it is no possible for our brain to make sense of it wether it be God or not.
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Time didn't exist before the ' The Big Bang '
God Could not Create the Universe Because There Was No Time for Him to Do So
http://theosophical.wordpress.com/2012/01/04/stephen-hawking-god-could-not-create-the-universe-because-there-was-no-time-for-him-to-do-so/
fine, whatever, still fucken laughable and still does not make sense.
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What I cannot fathom more than existence of nothing is how people that would get crushed by college level calculus can dispute astrophysics like they were experts... To all you guys here, discussing these findings - you do not understand it. What was sold to you in science magazine is just as accurate description of actual theory as game of thrones is legit picture of medieval Europe.
tl;dr you don't know shit.
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but the pictures look so nice ;D
theyre written kinda in a way so laymen like me can somewhat undertand the stuff, i guess better than nothing.
or is it so shit that theyre worthless mags? ???
Yeah, prolly would be better to compare it to bodybuilding... So what you read in science magazines is just as accurate as muscular development or flexmag. You know, 6 meals per day, 300grams of carbs, creatine, that stuff.
Amount of math that would be required to understand that is unimaginable. In every top branch of math, computer science and physics it takes lifetime to understand that stuff AND you have to be truly exceptional individual. I know most of you think of yourselves as smartass but let's be honest, you don't even have a phd... Most of you don't even have masters in anything. Some of you cannot tell the difference between hypothesis and theory (see uberman).
Just leave it alone. When I read news like this I'm like oh yeah, great but I do not comment. Why? Because I am aware of my ignorance. Leave it be. By saying that "oh, science can't get it right" you make yourself look bad, very bad.
Basically it's like 100lbs twink telling you how to become Olympic weightlifting champion or MrO or saying it's all drugs. Laughable.
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what life is
is day by day slow drip into us MORE KNOWLEDGE
if your 40 years old youve already been around what 14,000 days already? that doesnt seem that much to some it may.
we havent been around that long alot of what was learned in the past say our great grandparents generation may not even surface till another 20 years
life is the ultimate waiting game to know parts of the mystery you dont just get the whole mystery handed to you
they key is to stay alive many of you are dieing rapidly devowering meat constantly , roiding up takin this and that drug for and edge while wrecking your longevity . time is needed to know just PARTS of the mystery
only a few legends will be granted or earned enough time on earth to know enough parts of the mystery to know the whole mystery
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I also can't prove to you that a pink unicorn that speaks Gaelic, sounds like Morgan Freeman and farts cotton candy doesn't exist either...
I hope it does... That would be major cool!
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Dark Matter is fucking bullshit. Just admit you don't know what the fuck is going on. ::)
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Yeah, prolly would be better to compare it to bodybuilding... So what you read in science magazines is just as accurate as muscular development or flexmag. You know, 6 meals per day, 300grams of carbs, creatine, that stuff.
WOW
Good/disappointing analogy :o
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Mainstream science is never right the first, second, third, fourth time... ::)
not sure why the eye roll, stud.
as nietzsche pointed out, mankind has reached the point it's at through countless errors... all along the way, people believed they knew "the truth", despite constantly developing new models (as more evidence came to light) and updating "the truth".
i don't have a strong desire to live forever, or anything like that, but i do wish i could skip ahead and see what people will believe in 1000, 10000, 100000, 1000000, etc. years (if anything).
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Wasn't going to chime in here much because I come here to ESCAPE science, not talk about it. But current (yes, I know, it's going away) "big bang" theory has the original bang expanding at quite a bit more than C. This was traditionally accepted because "mumble, mumble" the laws of this universe (love that multiverse theory) state that the speed of light is fixed and inviolate, but those laws were not yet baked into the universe at the time.
In any event, it's an exciting time for the next 20 years of so in physics. I just need to continue to encourage my son, who, at 10, has determined that HE will be the one to "figure out" the standard model of gravity. Love his moxie.
one of my physics friends explained this to me one time, said something like the space itself was expanding rapidly, so matter didn't actually need to move faster than the speed of light to reach such far-off distances immediately after the big gang. of course i don't know anything about physics, but i thought i'd share since i'd always wondered about this "expansion rate exceeding C" thing myself.
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Jesus, ok, I'll explain.
Science wasn't "wrong". It was just not accurate enough. Physics and especially other natural sciences try to create model of reality. Biology does see the world from different level, chemistry does and so does physics. You cannot, ie. analyze nature in terms of pure physics because it's too low level.
There are tons of practical proofs that science indeed works. Without relativity theory, for instance, your beloved GPS wouldn't work. There are just so many things in real life that you take for granted that use physics that as you said turned out to be "wrong".
No, it wasn't wrong, it was just not accurate enough.
Personally I believe that it's impossible to create ideal 1-1 model of reality. For me pursuit to create "theory of everything" looks like solving stop problem. See, stop problem in computer science is very famous problem of implementing program that takes any computer program (binary or code) and says if this program stops or not. Proof that it's impossible is very straight forward. When you actually try to implement that then you will cascade into series of special cases that if you solve it you will always find another and so on, and so on...
Maybe I'm wrong. One thing we know for sure, we won't get to know it in my lifetime.
But in the meanwhile you dumb motherfuckers use that "damned" physics every fucking day so get rid of all PCs, get rid of your tablets, get rid of your iphones, get rid of your GPS, get rid of your microwaves... or STFU.
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Jesus, ok, I'll explain.
Science wasn't "wrong". It was just not accurate enough. Physics and especially other natural sciences try to create model of reality. Biology does see the world from different level, chemistry does and so does physics. You cannot, ie. analyze nature in terms of pure physics because it's too low level.
There are tons of practical proofs that science indeed works. Without relativity theory, for instance, your beloved GPS wouldn't work. There are just so many things in real life that you take for granted that use physics that as you said turned out to be "wrong".
No, it wasn't wrong, it was just not accurate enough.
Personally I believe that it's impossible to create ideal 1-1 model of reality. For me pursuit to create "theory of everything" looks like solving stop problem. See, stop problem in computer science is very famous problem of implementing program that takes any computer program (binary or code) and says if this program stops or not. Proof that it's impossible is very straight forward. When you actually try to implement that then you will cascade into series of special cases that if you solve it you will always find another and so on, and so on...
Maybe I'm wrong. One thing we know for sure, we won't get to know it in my lifetime.
But in the meanwhile you dumb motherfuckers use that "damned" physics every fucking day so get rid of all PCs, get rid of your tablets, get rid of your iphones, get rid of your GPS, get rid of your microwaves... or STFU.
Interesting reference to the Halting problem - although I'm not sure that I agree with its applicability here, but that discussion might be a bit too theoretical for getbig.
Is your education in computer science and /or mathematics?
Sidenote: by the way, not all conceivable computing machines are subject to the Church-Turing thesis, so the Halting problem isn't necessarily undecidable.
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Interesting reference to the Halting problem - although I'm not sure that I agree with its applicability here, but that discussion might be a bit too theoretical for getbig.
Is your education in computer science and /or mathematics?
Sidenote: by the way, not all conceivable computing machines are subject to the Church-Turing thesis, so the Halting problem isn't necessarily undecidable.
Yes, I was assuming we're talking about turing complete machine, not oracle machine for instance. It wasn't a reference or any attempt to apply anything, it's totally different realm and has nothing to do with each other. It's just an analogy, showing that sometimes you just cannot solve the problem and attempts to solve it makes you fall into endless special cases.
When people think "astrophysics"/"physics" they assume it's group of douchebags trying to play gods. It's quite on the opposite. Ton of that theory is used later on by mankind. It's like in math when attempts to proof one theorem, even though in vain, produce very interesting results themselves. What I'm saying is that maybe we won't ever know origins of the universe but we can make our world better along the way using knowledge we gained.
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Personally I believe that it's impossible to create ideal 1-1 model of reality.
I agree. An idea I've heard several times (such as in borges' story) that appeals to me: if a true, perfectly accurate 1-1 model were possible, it wouldn't really be a model at all, but a copy. being a copy of the whole universe, it couldn't be contained by the universe; not to mention, a model like this would obviously be useless anyway.
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To be honest our beliefs are worth just as much as uberman's belief in god... Zero :D
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does it make you feel a little disgusting inside, discussing like this
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Lol leave it to getbig. I bet we will figure out the origins of the universe by the time this thread hits 10 pages. ;D