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Getbig Main Boards => Gossip & Opinions => Topic started by: flinstones1 on November 10, 2013, 10:13:18 PM
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Trying to put together a routine, Ive never exactly "followed" one but Im really trying to bring up my back and legs. Ive reached a piont of development where Id ont think training like an idiot and going by instinct is going to cut it.
Monday- chest/triceps
Tuesday- back/biceps/forearms (am) delts (pm)
wedsday- legs
Thursday- off
Friday- shoulders/triceps
Saturday- legs/biceps/forearms
sunday -off
this look like a bit too much ? be curious to see what your guys splits look like
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Also contemplating giving the DC program a go...
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Gear or natty, doesn't matter......
Layne Norton's PHAT program is the best damn split I've used in 7 years of training. I'm not bullshitting you.
Only thing I modify is after a 12 week period I then switch to a traditional 5 day a week split, but I work my weak muscle every 4th or 5th day. Do this for 12 weeks then switch back to PHAT program. This has been my system for the last 4-5 years and I've never stopped growing.
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Gear or natty, doesn't matter......
Layne Norton's PHAT program is the best damn split I've used in 7 years of training. I'm not bullshitting you.
really? you like it better than Dc? I know some guys who fucking swear that DC is the only thing that helped them once they were maxed out. generally I found that if I train 5-6 times a week, I start looking lanky and strength dip off
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really? you like it better than Dc? I know some guys who fucking swear that DC is the only thing that helped them once they were maxed out. generally I found that if I train 5-6 times a week, I start looking lanky and strength dip off
5 days a week is my magic number. 6 is just too much even though I'd love to physically be able to.
Yeah bro personally I love the PHAT program. I've never maxed out or plateaued in the last 7 years, when I was natty or when I started gear. (only time was when contest prep mode but dramatic muscle gain is kinda not the point during that time any way.)
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Gear or natty, doesn't matter......
Layne Norton's PHAT program is the best damn split I've used in 7 years of training. I'm not bullshitting you.
How is your recovery with 2 chest workouts being so close together?
Day 1: Upper Body Power
Day 2: Lower Body Power
Day 3: Rest
Day 4: Back and Shoulders Hypertrophy
Day 5: Lower Body Hypertrophy
Day 6: Chest and Arms Hypertrophy
Day 7: Rest
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Trying to put together a routine, Ive never exactly "followed" one but Im really trying to bring up my back and legs. Ive reached a piont of development where Id ont think training like an idiot and going by instinct is going to cut it.
Monday- chest/triceps
Tuesday- back/biceps/forearms (am) delts (pm)
wedsday- legs
Thursday- off
Friday- shoulders/triceps
Saturday- legs/biceps/forearms
sunday -off
this look like a bit too much ? be curious to see what your guys splits look like
If you want to get more cut and in better shape work legs on thur to. Wed quad/light ham thur ham/ light quad. Remove legs off of sat and hit a couple sets of whatever weak upper body parts you like. Always dif exercises in dif order every work out
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Trying to put together a routine, Ive never exactly "followed" one but Im really trying to bring up my back and legs. Ive reached a piont of development where Id ont think training like an idiot and going by instinct is going to cut it.
Monday- chest/triceps
Tuesday- back/biceps/forearms (am) delts (pm)
wedsday- legs
Thursday- off
Friday- shoulders/triceps
Saturday- legs/biceps/forearms
sunday -off
this look like a bit too much ? be curious to see what your guys splits look like
Bro need more info like your rep ranges, volume and exercises for those parts you're trying to bring up. Tell us what you've been trying but hasn't worked and then we can go from there.
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How is your recovery with 2 chest workouts being so close together?
Perfectly fine. If you follow the plan, the volume is controlled deliberately so that you arent fuckin spent after the first 2 days. The split has a perfect balance IMO. I consider myself decent genetics basically nothin special but I work and diet fuckin hard. I never felt "overtrained".
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Perfectly fine. If you follow the plan, the volume is controlled deliberately so that you arent fuckin spent after the first 2 days. The split has a perfect balance IMO. I consider myself decent genetics basically nothin special but I work and diet fuckin hard. I never felt "overtrained".
I still wouldn't like it as a natty. Chest and shoulders need rest. Back and legs can take a pounding. This is true with most people.
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Flin
Oly lifters squat 3-5 times a week...some even more. Don't be afraid to pound those legs. They can take it. As long as you're not doing heavy deads you should be fine.
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Bro need more info like your rep ranges, volume and exercises for those parts you're trying to bring up. Tell us what you've been trying but hasn't worked and then we can go from there.
always made my best gains training 3 days per week. Always made my best size gains in the higher rep ranges 15-20. tried training 5 days per week occasionally and always ended up looking flat and like shit.
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I still wouldn't like it as a natty. Chest and shoulders need rest. Back and legs can take a pounding. This is true with most people.
I used this for a few years back when I was still natty and made great progress with it ???
Works even better on gear :D
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always made my best gains training 3 days per week. Always made my best size gains in the higher rep ranges 15-20. tried training 5 days per week occasionally and always ended up looking flat and like shit.
Lower your reps and get stronger. Then after you get stronger go back to your higher reps but this time it will be with heavier weight. You should grow.
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Chiro the only issue I have with layne's training routine is doesn't address the most important thing of a hypertrophy program- training to failure. Im not saying trainnig to failure is necessary (i rarely do) but its out of laziness really. The science is there and we know that training to failure is absolutely superior for hypertrophy purposes. This is what attracts me to DC
of course...the overtraining factor with dc is there. and the volume seems kind of low. Is one rest pause set really enough to grow? so many gys swear by it, Im really leaning towards dc
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Trying to put together a routine, Ive never exactly "followed" one but Im really trying to bring up my back and legs. Ive reached a piont of development where I don't think training like an idiot and going by instinct is going to cut it.
From what you posted it is obvious you have no clue at all about hypertrophy. A real shame.
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if you want to look like a champion train like one
if you want to look like layne norton train like him?
???
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Trying to put together a routine, Ive never exactly "followed" one but Im really trying to bring up my back and legs. Ive reached a piont of development where Id ont think training like an idiot and going by instinct is going to cut it.
Monday- chest/triceps
Tuesday- back/biceps/forearms (am) delts (pm)
wedsday- legs
Thursday- off
Friday- shoulders/triceps
Saturday- legs/biceps/forearms
sunday -off
this look like a bit too much ? be curious to see what your guys splits look like
Whether or not this routine is too much depends on several factors. Firstly, where you are in your training as in how long you've trained and how you've progressed. Another issue is how many sets and reps you do for each body part. Age is a factor too. Younger folks often have more energy and a faster recovery time. There are any number of routines which will produce results if you stick to them and follow a few basic principals.
I make it a point to limit my training time to not more then 60 minutes not counting cardio when I do it. I don't chat it up much with folks because I like to limit the time between sets and reps to something pretty minimal with the exception of heavy leg presses which tend to wind me a little bit. My favorite routine trains each muscle group one time each week, allowing me a full week to recover. The long recovery time is partly because I am older and believe I need more recovery time. Younger guys often do a split more like the one you posted here, whereby you are working most muscle groups twice a week. Again, it all depends on what works for you.
How much resistance you use and whether you use good form are also factors in success. I believe there is a fine line between challenging yourself and maintaining form at all time. Sloppy lifting technics often lead to injuries. Injuries will set you back faster then anything and therefore caution and safety are key.
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Mon... Chest, front and side delts
Tues... Back, rear delts, traps.
Thurs... Triceps, quads
Fri... Biceps, hamstrings, calves
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i would just change your split and add an extra leg day...
mon legs.... if you have access to a trap bar use this on this day
tues chest,delts,triceps
wed off, or cardio abbs etc
thurs legs
fri/sat back, traps, biceps
fuck the am/pm shit.. volume low or high, reps low or high is a personal thing, all adds up to the same thing anyway..as for dc, its fun to begin with, but for me it just leads everyone into injury
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Think it depends on What your goals are, i found to maintain i only need to do bodyparts once a week 20-30 mins 3 or 4 workouts a week rather than long ball busting sessions. I don't even train my traps directly most of the time and they still show alot of users up.
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1) Chest/back/calves
2) quads/hams/abs
3) delts/bis/tris/calves
4) OFF
Everything gets hit 2-4x a week. 5-6 sets to failure per bodypart. 1-3 exercises per bodypart
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Chiro the only issue I have with layne's training routine is doesn't address the most important thing of a hypertrophy program- training to failure. Im not saying trainnig to failure is necessary (i rarely do) but its out of laziness really. The science is there and we know that training to failure is absolutely superior for hypertrophy purposes. This is what attracts me to DC
of course...the overtraining factor with dc is there. and the volume seems kind of low. Is one rest pause set really enough to grow? so many gys swear by it, Im really leaning towards dc
Do like I do and just hit failure every set! I still follow his same split, rep and set scheme. Same volume but I always go to failure.
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When I was your age my best gains came from twice a week workouts.
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I used a lot of effective routines through the years. The one I stay with the most is a three way split. Three on and two off. So every 5 days everything gets hit. Sometimes it goes 2 on-one off-1 on-one off then repeat.
I use two different three way splits but my favorite is:
Chest and arms
Legs
Back and Delts
Next favorite is:
Back and Chest
legs
delt and arms
I don't count warm up sets. I usually pick 3 to 4 exercises a body part. I use two work sets. So lats and delts might look like this.
Chins 2 x max
Low cable rows with V bar 2 x 12
Dumbbell rows off a bench 2 x 10
Reverse grip pulldowns 2 x 10
Press behind neck 2 x 6
delt dumbbell laterals 2 x10
Single D ring pulley laterals 1 x10
rear delt dumbbell lateral 2 x 10
dead lifts 2 x 4 then 1x1
barbell shrugs 2 x 10
Weighted back extensions 2 x 15
Weighted ab crunches 2 x 30
Next back work out I would do a "B" routine of different exercises to keep it fresh. Power cleans would be substituted for deads for example. Delt Dumbbell presses would be substituted for press behind the neck and so on. Nothing stinks more than doing the same thing every time you hit the gym.
This routine is a power bodybuilding routine and if you really push yourself you wouldn't be able to even think about a third set. This is similar to the routine Yates used prior to going to his 4 way split with one work set routine.
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if you want to look like a champion train like one
if you want to look like layne norton train like him?
???
This is my philosophy, who the fuck would want to look like layne. Ronnie coleman's 2003 olympia routine is originally where the back and biceps in AM and delts in pm is actually came from. Of course there is always the question, could Ronnie have trained each bodypart once per week and looked the same?
who knows..
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Ronnie Coleman Training Routine
Monday
Back
Deadlifts, 4 sets 6-12 reps
Barbell rows, 3 sets 10-12 reps
T-bar rows, 3 sets 10 12 reps
One-arm dumbbell rows, 3 sets 10-12 reps
Biceps
Barbell curls, 4 sets -12 reps
Seated alternating dumbbell curls, 12 reps
Preacher curls, 12 reps
Cable curls, 12 reps
Shoulders
Military presses, 4 sets 10-12 reps
Seated dumbbell press, 4 sets 12 reps
(superset with)
Front dumbbell press, 4 sets 12 reps
Tuesday
Legs
Squats, 5-6 sets 2-12 reps
Leg presses, 4 sets 12 reps
Lunges, 2 sets 100 yards
Stiff-leg deadlifts, 3 sets 12 reps
Seated hamstring curls, 3 sets 12 reps
Wednesday
Chest
Bench press, 5 sets 12 reps
Incline barbell press, 3 sets 12 reps
Flat bench dumbbell press, 3 sets 12 reps
Flat bench flyes, 4 sets 12 reps
Triceps
Seated cambered-bar extensions, 3 sets 12 reps
Seated dumbbell extensions, 4 sets 12 reps
Close-grip bench press, 4 sets 12 reps
Thursday
Back Barbell rows, 5 sets 10 12 reps
Low Pulley Rows, 4 sets 10 12 reps
Lat machine pulldowns, 3 sets 10 12 reps
Front lat pulldowns, 3 sets 10 12 reps
Biceps
Incline alternating dumbbell curls, 4 sets 12 reps
Machine curls, 3 sets 12 reps
(superset with)
Standing cable curls, 4 sets 12 reps
Shoulders
Seated dumbbell press, 4 sets 12 reps
Front lateral dumbbell raises, 3 sets 8 25 reps
Machine raises, 3 sets 8 25 reps
Friday
Legs
Leg extensions, 4 sets 30 reps
Front squats, 4 sets 12 15 reps
Hack squats, 3 sets 12 reps
Standing leg curls, 3 sets 12 15 reps
Lying leg curls, 4 sets 12 reps
Saturday
Chest
Incline dumbbell press, 4 sets 12 reps
Decline barbell press, 3 sets 12 reps
Incline dumbbell flyes, 3 sets 12 reps
Decline dumbbell press, 3 sets 12 reps
Triceps
Skullcrushers, 4 sets 12 reps
(superset with)
Machine pressdown dips, 4 sets 12 reps
(superset with)
Seated tricep extensions, 4 sets 12 reps
Calves
Donkey raises, 4 sets 12 reps
Seated raises, 4 sets 12 reps
Crunches, 3 sets failure
Sunday
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day 1 Chest and biceps
day 2 Legs
day 3 off
day 4 shoulders and triceps
day 5 back and traps
day 6 off
day 7 off
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day 1 Chest and biceps
day 2 Legs
day 3 off
day 4 shoulders and triceps
day 5 back and traps
day 6 off
day 7 off
so you only have 52 potential growth phases for each bodypart per year, vs 104? If you only train a bodypart once per week muscle atrophy will take place by the time you reach the next workout for that bodypart. Of course Ronnie's program is a bit extreme, but I think DC is a nice compromise training the bodypart once every 5 days.
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if i had the time, id train 2 times a day.
each bodypart once weekly is ok though.
depends on how hard you hit it, when its not sore anymore, its ready to go again, but along with that, overal performance can be bit poor, say if shoulders still not recovered, and arms neither, and you do chest, training will not be sooo good.
but i believe in training more often,rather than training too little.
one thing i learned, the more often i train, the harder and more shredded im gonna look.
plaaning split routines i find bit unpractical, just hit the most imporatant part as much as possible, and-or go for whateveer muscle feels recovered on that day.
i never know what im gona train tomorow.always decide on same day.
if possible, always arms :D
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so you only have 52 potential growth phases for each bodypart per year, vs 104? If you only train a bodypart once per week muscle atrophy will take place by the time you reach the next workout for that bodypart. Of course Ronnie's program is a bit extreme, but I think DC is a nice compromise training the bodypart once every 5 days.
Do you think your body just continues to grow and grow forever? I think the rest is the better trade off and the joints will thank you in the future.
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definitely, in the end unless your going to juice up and jump on stage its all about refining and trying to improve muscle quality. My triceps are no worse from laying off the heavy tricep extensions that made my elbows so painful. I wish i'd packed them in earlier, i don't have continuous pain but it doesn't take long performing that movement now before my elbows feel really sensitive.
Do you think your body just continues to grow and grow forever? I think the rest is the better trade off and the joints will thank you in the future.
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definitely, in the end unless your going to juice up and jump on stage its all about refining and trying to improve muscle quality. My triceps are no worse from laying off the heavy tricep extensions that made my elbows so painful. I wish i'd packed them in earlier, i don't have continuous pain but it doesn't take long performing that movement now before my elbows feel really sensitive.
Even if you juice up you will only grow so much. I have trained twice a week and once a week. Training once a week gives plenty of rest. And not just from chest workout to chest workout, hitting shoulders involves chest, hitting back involves biceps, chest involves triceps ect ect
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This is my philosophy, who the fuck would want to look like layne.
Flint.....you're smarter than this dude.
That's like saying "why do I want to listen to George Farrah or Chris Aceto or chad Nichols? Just so I can look like them?"
I know NOBODY who has not grown from the PHAT program.
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Flint.....you're smarter than this dude.
That's like saying "why do I want to listen to George Farrah or Chris Aceto or chad Nichols? Just so I can look like them?"
I know NOBODY who has not grown from the PHAT program.
I will look more into the program later chiro. All I know is this, a high level athlete (or any athlete wishing to achieve an elite level) does not have the capability or adaptive resources to train for two things at one time. An American football player can not train for Speed,strength,and muscle hypertrophy at the same time and expect to make the gains he would if he were to divide the training in different phases.
Layne's philosophy- you need to get bigger to get stronger at some point, you need to get stronger to get bigger at some point, so lets combine the two! But what he fails to realize is that Even world class Olympic weightlifters, will go through an accumulation phase during certain parts of the years(which is largely geared towards hypertrophy of the muscles that will aid in the snatch and C and J. primarly the quads glutes..hamstrings..erec tors.traps.etc)
They do not do any training to increase maximal strength or explosive power during this phase. Yet layne has guys training for both. The PHAT program will lead to overtraining IMO very quickly and is just not optimal. Just because you have gotten gains from it does not mean your gains would of been even better on a different program. On the research we have, I see reason to believe that DC is superior for hypertrophy purposes.
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I would say if you are using moderate weights twice a week is okay. If you are using what is heavy weight for you then once a week will work.
When you train once a week there is so much over lap for lack of a better description. Lets say you train chest and back on Monday. Wednesday is legs and Friday is delts/arms with weekends off. When you are doing chest and back you are working the bicep and triceps really hard with all the pushing and pulling. Then Friday the bicep and tricep get hit hard directly. So that is twice a week. Here's another example. Legs are hit hard on Wednesday and they are hit hard again when you do dead lifts as part of your Monday back/chest day. The bodybuilding model of body part training involves over lap. It's nearly impossible to isolate in a comprehensive bodybuilding routine. Your body works as a unit and not in isolation.
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Twice per week !!!
I am 60, training over 40 years & training every muscle group twice per week (abs 4 or 5 times)
update pics prove it.
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I used this for a few years back when I was still natty and made great progress with it ???
Works even better on gear :D
I'm sure Layne agrees with all of the above.
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Even if you juice up you will only grow so much. I have trained twice a week and once a week. Training once a week gives plenty of rest. And not just from chest workout to chest workout, hitting shoulders involves chest, hitting back involves biceps, chest involves triceps ect ect
yah even on gear, there will be a limit, after a while training becomes a form of cardio, caring to not injure oneself, and maintaining what one has, this can be hard enough.
ppl think endless growth is possible, when infact, even maintaining a jacked physique required alot of work.
gaining only goes so far as you can get away with increasing dosage, some time the value of benefits from increasing dosage become questionable, some time later the sides kick in.
but this doesnt mean one cant or shouldnt train everything twice weekly, just be realistic what to expect from it.
im thankful if it help maintaining and has cardio efect.
esp for ppl on 1gramm or more weekly, dont see why they wouldnt get away with it.
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the smart thing howver is to achieve maximum results with minimal training
all that wear and tear adds up
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day 1 Chest and biceps
day 2 Legs
day 3 off
day 4 shoulders and triceps
day 5 back and traps
day 6 off
day 7 off
similar to yates blood and guts routine.
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I like
Mon - Chest + upper back
Wed - delts, deadlifts, traps
fri or sat - arms, legs
unusual split, tried many others but always return to this.
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I train the whole body in three sessions and start over on the fourth. If I feel good, I'll work out five days a week. Sometimes just four.
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Twice per week !!!
I am 60, training over 40 years & training every muscle group twice per week (abs 4 or 5 times)
update pics prove it.
all dog meat and noodles...
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Twice per week !!!
I am 60, training over 40 years & training every muscle group twice per week (abs 4 or 5 times)
update pics prove it.
you look UNBELIEVABLY good for a natural and your age.
literaly unbelievable.
black 20year old male genetic in asian guy, you got very lucky
::) ::)
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you look UNBELIEVABLY good for a natural and your age.
literaly unbelievable.
black 20year old male genetic in asian guy, you got very lucky
::) ::)
heh.
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i tend to cycle between three routines
high volume nubret or arnold type, hitting everything twice a week
high frequency, low volume type. Phil hernon/bulgarian blast style hitting everything 3 times a week
when i am in recovery from burn out or off cycle, i like to just do 3 times a week full body at 50-60% effort.
I moved to 2-3x a week when I started doing DC a few years ago. I decided never to do DC again though as you nearly always sacrifice good form for beating the logbook. I was also constantly burnt out as well.
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Twice per week !!!
I am 60, training over 40 years & training every muscle group twice per week (abs 4 or 5 times)
update pics prove it.
What is your split like?
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What is your split like?
day 1, chest & back, abs
day 2, shoulders & arms, abs
day 3, legs,
training 6 consecutive days, then 1 day off.(no matter holidays or sunday...)
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How can you possibly have the energy or interest in training anything twice per week? That would just burn me the f out, physically and mentally. Who cares that it maybe works better, if it makes the gym something you dread. Hit everything hard once and be done with it, and forget the overanalysis. Life's too short to spend overtime killing yourself in the gym.
Unless you just REALLY enjoy it, I guess.
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who gives a fuck, it makes 0% difference, hth
:D
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Trying to put together a routine, Ive never exactly "followed" one but Im really trying to bring up my back and legs. Ive reached a piont of development where Id ont think training like an idiot and going by instinct is going to cut it.
Monday- chest/triceps
Tuesday- back/biceps/forearms (am) delts (pm)
wedsday- legs
Thursday- off
Friday- shoulders/triceps
Saturday- legs/biceps/forearms
sunday -off
this look like a bit too much ? be curious to see what your guys splits look like
not too much with good diet and rest
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Flin this shit is not complicated. Get stronger. Remember that good ol tool from back in the day called periodization? That shit you relied on before you took steroids? Use it and get stronger bro. Focus on strength. Then reverse it and go back to the higher reps IF that truly works for you. Its like this, if you can max bench 315 for 12 today...then a couple months from now you bench 365 for 12...will your muscles be bigger? Of course.
Come on flin you know this man.
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twice a week is the best but joints will have a hard time real quick you have to make sure you are not always training super heavy
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Lifting weights = rocket science.
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Lifting weights = rocket science.
Chaos = Neil Armstrong
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Chaos = Neil Armstrong
I'd shove my flag pole into your full moon.
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I'd shove my flag pole into your full moon.
Sounds like you'd be a perfect match for one of the space cadet's at the Aeronautic National Ugandan Space Center. (A.N.U.S.)
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twice a week is the best but joints will have a hard time real quick you have to make sure you are not always training super heavy
yah, slution is, do 1 heavy training, 2 easy, 2 heavy, 1 easy etcetc.
::) @ "wolfox" toothpickers for arms "focus on strenght" ,lol, this is not powerlifting.yah, eat like a swine all day and be "strong" and then what? ::)
flintsone has built his strenght foundation, he can now play around with the weights.
when one is strong enough to bench his own bodyweight for 10 times full rom, clean reps at 5-6% bodyfat, then they got the strenght foundation.
thatll equal to a bit more strenght when bulked up, but lol, really, strenght buildup is for the newcomers,the guys with no or few cycles under the belt etc.
if one doesnt eventualy get out of that pattern, they will remain permabulker forever.
whether i do biceps curls with 25 lbs dumbells,or 40s, all the same results.
if you focus on strenght, you need to overeat premanently and need to be 100% rested before hitting bodypart again, this is no good for bbuilding purposes.
ask teh pros if they focus on strenght haha, wolfox shut the fuck up, you look like a turd.
seen cutlers weight used for deadlifts?just saying.
strenght is a relative term anyway.and is limited, and has more to do with just muscle.
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you look UNBELIEVABLY good for a natural and your age.
literaly unbelievable.
black 20year old male genetic in asian guy, you got very lucky
::) ::)
a lot of young blacks at my gym who train with colemanesque intensity
they are not even close to this taiwanese natural wonder
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day 1, chest & back, abs
day 2, shoulders & arms, abs
day 3, legs,
training 6 consecutive days, then 1 day off.(no matter holidays or sunday...)
same with layne norton
that is the secret
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5 days a week is my magic number. 6 is just too much even though I'd love to physically be able to.
Yeah bro personally I love the PHAT program. I've never maxed out or plateaued in the last 7 years, when I was natty or when I started gear. (only time was when contest prep mode but dramatic muscle gain is kinda not the point during that time any way.)
I train every day I can. Life usually knocks one or two days a week out of the picture so it evens out.
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I train every day I can. Life usually knocks one or two days a week out of the picture so it evens out.
Yep same here. For whatever reason it usually magically works out to be 3 on 1 off 2 on 1 off. If I'm on vacation ill grind it out 6-7 days straight. 8)
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I train every day I can. Life usually knocks one or two days a week out of the picture so it evens out.
that just means you are just pussying out
there is always an opportunity to lift weights any day
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Lol @ gaylinko acting like a bodybuilding authority. ;D
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I would say if you are using moderate weights twice a week is okay. If you are using what is heavy weight for you then once a week will work.
When you train once a week there is so much over lap for lack of a better description. Lets say you train chest and back on Monday. Wednesday is legs and Friday is delts/arms with weekends off. When you are doing chest and back you are working the bicep and triceps really hard with all the pushing and pulling. Then Friday the bicep and tricep get hit hard directly. So that is twice a week. Here's another example. Legs are hit hard on Wednesday and they are hit hard again when you do dead lifts as part of your Monday back/chest day. The bodybuilding model of body part training involves over lap. It's nearly impossible to isolate in a comprehensive bodybuilding routine. Your body works as a unit and not in isolation.
A good post.
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that just means you are just pussying out
there is always an opportunity to lift weights any day
Correct me if I'm wrong but I believe Groink is a father and also in a serious long term committed relationship....EVERYDAY . There's no off days where the baby mama takes little Groink and stays with her parents, that type of drama, etc that you have in your life. Being a family man is a full time job bro.
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Correct me if I'm wrong but I believe Groink is a father and also in a serious long term committed relationship....EVERYDAY . There's no off days where the baby mama takes little Groink and stays with her parents, that type of drama, etc that you have in your life. Being a family man is a full time job bro.
what?
i have also a woman and kid at home
during the entire pregnancy, the hospital times, the going home times and the being at home times now
i basically didnt miss any workouts
the fact is people will say they need to take time off the gym for this "important stuf", but they dont take time off from their tv shows, their facebook and their getbig ::)
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what?
i have also a woman and kid at home
during the entire pregnancy, the hospital times, the going home times and the being at home times now
i basically didnt miss any workouts
the fact is people will say they need to take time off the gym for this "important stuf", but they dont take time off from their tv shows, their facebook and their getbig ::)
Groink has 20" arms.
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Groink has 20" arms.
i am gonna have them too
20 aint shit
ronnie had like 23"s at that conditioning
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by now you should feel when to train and what to train,
the hell with workout routines
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i am gonna have them too
20 aint shit
ronnie had like 23"s at that conditioning
Not if you don't up the dose soon bro. Do you want hair or do you want muscle glory?
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Not if you don't up the dose soon bro. Do you want hair or do you want muscle glory?
my hairloss guru said i can take as much test as i want it wont make a difference when on finasteride
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my hairloss guru said i can take as much test as i want it wont make a difference when on finasteride
What about the study that showed test combined with finasteride not only makes it impossible for the finasteride to inhibit the production of the enzyme Type II 5a reductase, but may actually PROMOTE it?
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What about the study that showed test combined with finasteride not only makes it impossible for the finasteride to inhibit the production of the enzyme Type II 5a reductase, but may actually PROMOTE it?
what study is that?
please provide it or is this some sort of joke
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what study is that?
please provide it or is this some sort of joke
Thought it was common knowledge :-\
I'm not going to search for it, but 5a reductase is a bastard of an enzyme.
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Thought it was common knowledge :-\
I'm not going to search for it, but 5a reductase is a bastard of an enzyme.
you are trolling me
common knowledge my foot
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Don't worry - your arms or your acne will distract them from your baldness.
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Don't worry - your arms or your acne will distract them from your baldness.
shut up troll
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shut up troll
Relax, analbuttlickhomo.... if you're really concerned about losing hair, you could always stop pretending to take drugs.
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same with layne norton
that is the secret
I am 46 and natural and no way could I train 6 days in a row hitting everything twice a week. I can only go hard 3-4 days a week. I don't know their secert ;)
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Lol @ gaylinko acting like a bodybuilding authority. ;D
;D
im sure youre quite the force on tire fitting forums yourself :D
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Lol @ gaylinko acting like a bodybuilding authority. ;D
lol I know right? Gaylinko is a joke.
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Ok here is what the plan is.
DC training (for anyone unfamiliar with it you have workout A and workout b and each workout you go back and forth. you train three times per week)
workout A- chest shoulders triceps back width and back thickness
workout b- biceps forearms legs
only modification is Im going to take the back work out of workout A, and train it on it's own twice per week. so training 5 days per week, each muscle every 5 days, with the exception of back. Why back? no clue....probably because its the bp that responds the quickest for me and I want to see what I can do if I attempt to build a great one.
All sets will be done to failure, in the hopes that one exercise per bodypart is enough to stimulate growth. The one execercise per bodypart every 5 days does seem sketchy but hey..lots of guys who were skeptical have tried dc made great gains and never looked back.
Also..for anabolichalo's thread regarding protein powder. interesting note- The past two weeks I have been drinking about 100 grams of whey isolate per day and cut back on my normal food intake mainly because of time constraints. So about 100 grams of animal protein per day vs the usual 250...since making up for it with shakes my strength has dipped. All other factors have been the same-
my concluson- Protein powder may not really contain protein at all. This whey isolate from GNC is going in the garbage
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I am 46 and natural and no way could I train 6 days in a row hitting everything twice a week. I can only go hard 3-4 days a week. I don't know their secert ;)
you are my age, do you mind posting some pics? Would like to see what 46 years natural competitor look like.
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Its generally recommended that you first follow a program as is.
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flintones..
only millions even a few billion in this weightlifting era 1950's-now, by now, have tried a routine as such wich you are about to embark on now
its not going to produce some out of the ordinary result, if it did we would know .most meat eaters have already documented this trial to no avail
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Anyone do a whole body routine? Some will say it's a beginner's routine but in reality it's a lot tougher than a split. You can't do the variety of exercises that you can do in a split but you can change your routine every 6 workouts or so to keep things fresh.
I have made the quickest gains on a whole body routine but it's so hard to do that after 2 to 3 weeks I'm shot and longing to get back to a split routine. Some of the best features of a whole body routine is that when you finished you hit your whole body. No missing a scheduled delt day because of work or just being shot. Ideally you want to do three workouts a week but two work. Even one a week will keep you from back sliding. Maybe those bodybuilders from the 50's knew what they were doing.
This is the routine I used that really worked quickly. I could almost see changes from day to day without drugs.
Power cleans 3 x 3 then 1x1
Squats 2 x 8 then 1 x 1
Lunges 1 x 8
Standing leg curls 2 x 12
Dumbbell flat bench 2 x 8
Pull ups 2 x max
Low lat cable row with a v bar handle 2 x12
Military press 2 x 8
Dumbbell laterals 2 x 10
Weighted dips 2 x 10
barbell curls 2 x 10
hanging leg raises 2 x max
ab machine crunches 2 x 25
standing calf 2 x 15
Neck and grip work
I would come up with a realistic goal to shoot for and I would go back 6 or 8 workouts backing off 5lbs or 10lbs. on each exercise. So workout one would still be hard but very achievable. When I was close to goal poundage it would be hard as hell. Again after a week off when I hit goal I would come up with a new routine and change everything. There is nothing new about whole body routines. Steve Reeves, Grimek and Tommy Kono used them among many. I'm sure many a young trainer would dismiss these type workouts because what Olympia contestant does this? If you are taking every drug under sun follow their lead. If you want real power, strength, and yes I will use the term functional athletic transfer you can't beat a whole body routine. Don't be duped into thinking you need 4 different bicep exercises. Pick one for 6 to 8 workouts then pick another.
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whats funny is you have a bunch of guys who have never even used shit saying training doesnt matter and drugs are all that matter when it comes to growthr. (no disrespect) but I have to ask, if it were all about drugs and not training, why are there strippers on stacks that rival most hardcore bodybuilders walking around at only 200 pounds
Food and training baba!.
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whats funny is you have a bunch of guys who have never even used shit saying training doesnt matter and drugs are all that matter when it comes to growthr. (no disrespect) but I have to ask, if it were all about drugs and not training, why are there strippers on stacks that rival most hardcore bodybuilders walking around at only 200 pounds
Food and training baba!.
If you see someone at 200lbs, 6% lean and then see him later at 210lbs same conditioning, it's not because he optimized his training routine.
I think if you train as often as you can, as hard as you can, and your routine makes some sense.... that's about as "optimal" as a routine will get. Different people will function best under different approaches
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If you see someone at 200lbs, 6% lean and then see him later at 210lbs same conditioning, it's not because he optimized his training routine.
I think if you train as often as you can, as hard as you can, and your routine makes some sense.... that's about as "optimal" as a routine will get. Different people will function best under different approaches
yah ok, but i think he thinks, first slowly max out on whats required doses(instead of whats possible to stick in syringue-needle), then go further up.
cant argue with that approach,it makes most logical sense.
upping steroid dosages too quick isnt going places.
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I have done many different routines, twice a week each bodypart, once a week, full-body each workout, Smolov, German Volume Training, DC training, Instinctual training, Hypertrophy training, Max OT, PHAT, NSCA fly solo, Arnold`s routines, book routines and on and on. Not a single one of them really produced anything too dramatic. Smolov did increase my squat, but that is because you are really doing nothing but squatting, but after completing the program, it was nothing that I could not have attained with another program.
For me, the twice a week each bodypart is pretty much useless. It gets to be a chore and you get to the point where you are either training too much or too little. With twice a week, there really is no middle ground. I never saw any benefit from it. Just a waste of time.
I also never saw any benefit to full body routines. I actually got weaker doing these. I also got a lot weaker doing high volume, higher rep training (10-20 reps per set 28-36 sets each day).
For me, the best is 9-18 sets total for the day with reps no higher than 10 and reps that focus more on heavy weight and lower reps. This is what works for me and what I feel the most. The high rep, high volume is useless to me.
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I have done many different routines, twice a week each bodypart, once a week, full-body each workout, Smolov, German Volume Training, DC training, Instinctual training, Hypertrophy training, Max OT, PHAT, NSCA fly solo, Arnold`s routines, book routines and on and on. Not a single one of them really produced anything too dramatic. Smolov did increase my squat, but that is because you are really doing nothing but squatting, but after completing the program, it was nothing that I could not have attained with another program.
For me, the twice a week each bodypart is pretty much useless. It gets to be a chore and you get to the point where you are either training too much or too little. With twice a week, there really is no middle ground. I never saw any benefit from it. Just a waste of time.
I also never saw any benefit to full body routines. I actually got weaker doing these. I also got a lot weaker doing high volume, higher rep training (10-20 reps per set 28-36 sets each day).
For me, the best is 9-18 sets total for the day with reps no higher than 10 and reps that focus more on heavy weight and lower reps. This is what works for me and what I feel the most. The high rep, high volume is useless to me.
the only naturals who can get away with very high training frequency are typicaly guys like musclecenter.asian twinks and something aged between 50 and dead.
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the only naturals who can get away with very high training frequency are typicaly guys like musclecenter.asian twinks and something aged between 50 and dead.
I was doing it easily, but there was no point. I wasn`t getting any extra benefit at all so what would be the point? Its not like Musclecenter is getting any extra benefit really either other than calorie burning. His lifts aren`t going up and up and up and neither are any one elses doing this.
Its all bullshit really. Especially when you have been training for a very long time.
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training twice per week to maintain good difinition yearly around :)
(pic,1 taken 2 days ago, pic,2 taken 30 years ago)
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I have done many different routines, twice a week each bodypart, once a week, full-body each workout, Smolov, German Volume Training, DC training, Instinctual training, Hypertrophy training, Max OT, PHAT, NSCA fly solo, Arnold`s routines, book routines and on and on. Not a single one of them really produced anything too dramatic. Smolov did increase my squat, but that is because you are really doing nothing but squatting, but after completing the program, it was nothing that I could not have attained with another program.
For me, the twice a week each bodypart is pretty much useless. It gets to be a chore and you get to the point where you are either training too much or too little. With twice a week, there really is no middle ground. I never saw any benefit from it. Just a waste of time.
I also never saw any benefit to full body routines. I actually got weaker doing these. I also got a lot weaker doing high volume, higher rep training (10-20 reps per set 28-36 sets each day).
For me, the best is 9-18 sets total for the day with reps no higher than 10 and reps that focus more on heavy weight and lower reps. This is what works for me and what I feel the most. The high rep, high volume is useless to me.
Dude I can't believe you even tried DC and Smolov being a natty. Did you change it up any or just follow the programs as they are?
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If you see someone at 200lbs, 6% lean and then see him later at 210lbs same conditioning, it's not because he optimized his training routine.
I think if you train as often as you can, as hard as you can, and your routine makes some sense.... that's about as "optimal" as a routine will get. Different people will function best under different approaches
I agree. But I think diet is so underestimated.
but taking lots of shit, training hard, and inadequate diet-growing at snails pace.
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training twice per week to maintain good difinition yearly around :)
(pic,1 taken 2 days ago, pic,2 taken 30 years ago)
fuck off you lying pos
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fuck off you lying pos
Shut your mouth and respect your elders.
I like you anabolichalo and consider you a friend but you need to tread carefully here.
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Dude I can't believe you even tried DC and Smolov being a natty. Did you change it up any or just follow the programs as they are?
Being Natural does not mean you are limited in training at all.
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Being Natural does not mean you are limited in training at all.
I didn't say we're limited. It's just that those programs are clearly designed for the enhanced.
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I didn't say we're limited. It's just that those programs are clearly designed for the enhanced.
It makes no difference. Its not like any of these bodybuilding routines and powerlifting routines are all that taxing. In fact, there is a lot of evidence out there suggesting naturals should train more than juicers.
Juicers have the advantage of not training and still gaining muscle even so they can get away with much, much less.
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once a week, twice a week, three times a week... it don't fukin matter. if u enjoy training then do it twice a week. if u don't have time then do it once a week. zero fucking difference. for most guys, do it once a week. why invest more time into something with no return?
how much juice u on? that's the only thing that matters. more juice = bigger.
how much food u eat? that matters somewhat. somewhat becuz if u eat too much u will only get fat, not more muscular. eat enough to look big but fairly lean and no more. don't be a fucking retard and shove 5000 calories into your stomach a day. u will look 50 when ur 40 and you will die young.
spend more time on your nutritions and less time on training.
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Dude I can't believe you even tried DC and Smolov being a natty. Did you change it up any or just follow the programs as they are?
Smolov is hard when you are used to squatting 1-2 times per week, but manageable if you are able to push yourself. I think it is an overrated program, the 4x9 and 5x7 are imo just too light percentage wise, and 1 day rest between the workouts makes you prone to injuries, especially in the intense cycle. Muscles recover within a day, while ligament and attachments take longer to recover. Result is that you are squatting with "fresh" muscles and not fully recovered joints. Therefore it is in my opinion better to lift daily, which is what I'm doing right now.
If you complete the program the gains should be there (I gained 30kg/65lbs), but as soon as you reduce the volume after your cycle, the strength will also slowly fade away.
Several roads to getting strong, but it basically comes down to this: lift often, lift heavy, lift a lot of volume.
For mass, I would say that frequency doesn't really matter. Strength? Yes very much.
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You can train way more often than liars from bb magazines try to bullshit you to follow. Want big squat, big legs? Squat every day, or 3 times per week at least. Want big arms? Same principle. You really think you can actually overtrain yourself by doing fucking more than 10 sets of quad/biceps sets per week? PLEASE. More training = more results with less drugs. This is why Arnold and company was so fucking huge despite using less than gymrats these days.
Oh and doing that for 10 weeks won't cut it, do that for fucking years. Genetics also help.
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Smolov is hard when you are used to squatting 1-2 times per week, but manageable if you are able to push yourself. I think it is an overrated program, the 4x9 and 5x7 are imo just too light percentage wise, and 1 day rest between the workouts makes you prone to injuries, especially in the intense cycle. Muscles recover within a day, while ligament and attachments take longer to recover. Result is that you are squatting with "fresh" muscles and not fully recovered joints. Therefore it is in my opinion better to lift daily, which is what I'm doing right now.
If you complete the program the gains should be there (I gained 30kg/65lbs), but as soon as you reduce the volume after your cycle, the strength will also slowly fade away.
Several roads to getting strong, but it basically comes down to this: lift often, lift heavy, lift a lot of volume.
For mass, I would say that frequency doesn't really matter. Strength? Yes very much.
Exactly my experience.
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Smolov is hard when you are used to squatting 1-2 times per week, but manageable if you are able to push yourself. I think it is an overrated program, the 4x9 and 5x7 are imo just too light percentage wise, and 1 day rest between the workouts makes you prone to injuries, especially in the intense cycle. Muscles recover within a day, while ligament and attachments take longer to recover. Result is that you are squatting with "fresh" muscles and not fully recovered joints. Therefore it is in my opinion better to lift daily, which is what I'm doing right now.
If you complete the program the gains should be there (I gained 30kg/65lbs), but as soon as you reduce the volume after your cycle, the strength will also slowly fade away.
Several roads to getting strong, but it basically comes down to this: lift often, lift heavy, lift a lot of volume.
For mass, I would say that frequency doesn't really matter. Strength? Yes very much.
I can just look at smolov on paper and see it's not worth the hassle.
I squat twice a week with low volume high intensity and make still PRs while on less than 1000 calories a day. Mind you, I've only been squatting a couple months now so some of that may be considered beginner gains but the fundamentals of my program are similar to Pendlays methods that he uses on seasoned vets.
Nothing complicated. Just go heavy and aim to break PRs.
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When you guys reduced the volume did you up the intensity?
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Nothing complicated. Just go heavy and aim to break PRs.
Yes I'd do this for as long as it works.
Yes, intensity was increased, but this is something you can't keep up for a unlimited amount of time. After a while you will stagnate, and you should reduce weight on the bar again, add volume, and try to surpass the lifts you previously set.
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Yes I'd do this for as long as it works.
Yes, intensity was increased, but this is something you can't keep up for a unlimited amount of time. After a while you will stagnate, and you should reduce weight on the bar again, add volume, and try to surpass the lifts you previously set.
Yes, I agree. Deload/reset, add volume, ride it out and get stronger, then reduce volume and up intensity and get stronger. Rinse repeat. Nothing complicated.
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training twice per week to maintain good difinition yearly around :)
(pic,1 taken 2 days ago, pic,2 taken 30 years ago)
Very hot stuff, MC.
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You can train way more often than liars from bb magazines try to bullshit you to follow. Want big squat, big legs? Squat every day, or 3 times per week at least. Want big arms? Same principle. You really think you can actually overtrain yourself by doing fucking more than 10 sets of quad/biceps sets per week? PLEASE. More training = more results with less drugs. This is why Arnold and company was so fucking huge despite using less than gymrats these days.
Oh and doing that for 10 weeks won't cut it, do that for fucking years. Genetics also help.
yeah ,theres that serbian canoo athlete, he has absolute phenomenal arms, and he certainly trains them directly every day for hours, not just 10pump up sets, and they dont look overtrained to me.
overtraining can happen, if one does 1 bodypart a week and eevrything is sore one day,then theyre there, but its very hard to get there.
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;D
im sure youre quite the force on tire fitting forums yourself :D
I wouldn't go to a tire flipping forum and act like an authority without having competed or trained others to compete and proved myself or my techniques. :)
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You can train way more often than liars from bb magazines try to bullshit you to follow. Want big squat, big legs? Squat every day, or 3 times per week at least. Want big arms? Same principle. You really think you can actually overtrain yourself by doing fucking more than 10 sets of quad/biceps sets per week? PLEASE. More training = more results with less drugs. This is why Arnold and company was so fucking huge despite using less than gymrats these days.
Oh and doing that for 10 weeks won't cut it, do that for fucking years. Genetics also help.
i beg to differ,... and where do you draw the line? train chest twice a day 7 days a week, would be more effective than once a day 7 days a week? 3 or 4 times per day for even freakier size???
best i ever looked was when i had fresh joints and was training low volume 4 days a week, everyone is different, stop making blanket statements , makes you come across a moron
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i beg to differ,... and where do you draw the line? train chest twice a day 7 days a week, would be more effective than once a day 7 days a week? 3 or 4 times per day for even freakier size???
best i ever looked was when i had fresh joints and was training low volume 4 days a week, everyone is different, stop making blanket statements , makes you come across a moron
i have to say i was by far the strongest when joints were fresh and had plenty rest, but might have to do with being much younger back then.
but the body didnt look as good.
obviously there is a limit, training when a muscle or whole body area is sore will be pointless and even dangerous.
but one can use leverage, by varying intensity and volume, for me every 5th day is good enough, legs sometimes take bit longer to recover fully.
but yesterday, i had quite hard back training, today it feels ok already,its weird.
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back in your young stud days ( no homo ) , did you run the same strict dieting protocols you use now, using the same strict squeezy full ROM form?
i prgressed very quikly then flatlined badly, my form was perfect, i just wasnt made to lift heavy weights week in week out
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back in your young stud days ( no homo ) , did you run the same strict dieting protocols you use now, using the same strict squeezy full ROM form?
i prgressed very quikly then flatlined badly, my form was perfect, i just wasnt made to lift heavy weights week in week out
kinda mate, the main difference was dosage haha those were wreckless times, and having whole cheat weekends, instead of 1 or 2 huge cheat meals weekly now.
but the dieting protocols were about same, i ate 6 meals then instead of 3 now, but they were half the size.
didnt flatline, its seemed to go on and on, every time little bit stronger, sometimes suddenly much weaker but then much stronger again.
these days, strong days are the exception :-[
the rom was strict half the training,the other half was ego lifting :D
now 1 thing everybody else and me have noticed, the back was always shredded, and fuller, today, its flat and the very last bodypart to become dry.
but in exchange, all else comes dry sooner :D
ah and this might be important, i trained only 3 times a week.
marathon sessions which left the worked muscle sore for almost a week.
it worked back then, but as im nowhere near as strong anymore, doubt would work now.
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depends on if your using gh and anabolics, and the type of anabolic is important too...i find w tren ace or tren e i can smash multiple sessions a week. gh will greatly increase your recovery time to the point you could prolly train each body part 2x a week easily, still recover, and still be as strong for the next workout.
three things i'll add- i never do the same movements in consecutive sessions. if i start w flat bench press one session i'll start w dumbells the next and so on. the second thing i'll add is that some days your going to not feel like pushing heavy weight. up the reps on these days and chase the pump. on days the power is there, lower the reps and move some weight at the start of the session. the last thing is to reduce the actual amount of time you spend training. the more sessions you do a week the less time you need to be in the gym per session. i'll sometimes hit everything 3x in 6 days when im on specifically tren ace/ w test and gh, and my session time will drop to about 25min total training time, w no rest between sets.
in the end bro, listen to you body. it will let you know what it needs when it needs it. you will know if it can be trained w the frequency your training it with in a relatively short amount of time. its not about whats 'supposed' to work, or what works for other people ie pros routines, its about what works for you. i can tell from your posts this isnt your first bbq. you'll figure it out.
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yeah ,theres that serbian canoo athlete, he has absolute phenomenal arms, and he certainly trains them directly every day for hours, not just 10pump up sets, and they dont look overtrained to me.
overtraining can happen, if one does 1 bodypart a week and eevrything is sore one day,then theyre there, but its very hard to get there.
Marko Novakovic, great built. Natural of course
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You can train way more often than liars from bb magazines try to bullshit you to follow. Want big squat, big legs? Squat every day, or 3 times per week at least. Want big arms? Same principle. You really think you can actually overtrain yourself by doing fucking more than 10 sets of quad/biceps sets per week? PLEASE. More training = more results with less drugs. This is why Arnold and company was so fucking huge despite using less than gymrats these days.
Oh and doing that for 10 weeks won't cut it, do that for fucking years. Genetics also help.
good point. Olympic lifters have huge legs for their weight classes and squat twice per day every day for years on end. And with a hell of a lot more weight than these bodybuilders
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depends on if your using gh and anabolics, and the type of anabolic is important too...i find w tren ace or tren e i can smash multiple sessions a week. gh will greatly increase your recovery time to the point you could prolly train each body part 2x a week easily, still recover, and still be as strong for the next workout.
three things i'll add- i never do the same movements in consecutive sessions. if i start w flat bench press one session i'll start w dumbells the next and so on. the second thing i'll add is that some days your going to not feel like pushing heavy weight. up the reps on these days and chase the pump. on days the power is there, lower the reps and move some weight at the start of the session. the last thing is to reduce the actual amount of time you spend training. the more sessions you do a week the less time you need to be in the gym per session. i'll sometimes hit everything 3x in 6 days when im on specifically tren ace/ w test and gh, and my session time will drop to about 25min total training time, w no rest between sets.
in the end bro, listen to you body. it will let you know what it needs when it needs it. you will know if it can be trained w the frequency your training it with in a relatively short amount of time. its not about whats 'supposed' to work, or what works for other people ie pros routines, its about what works for you. i can tell from your posts this isnt your first bbq. you'll figure it out.
thanks bro. Ill be shooting you a pm in the future to pick your brain a bit. I'm one of those unlucky guys where tren never did much. I like what it does to my face...I always take my best pictures when on it and got the most pussy on it. Like how it keeps me lean eating shit, but I don't think it's put any size on me. great strength gains... Maybe it raises my metabolism or does something to my thyroid.
Either guys are all stacking it with test eq and other anabolics and giving the credit to tren because they heard its "the king of steroids" ... I'd be curious to see just how much someone gained off tren alone. From the science we have on it and studying the pharmacology behind it, the few studies I read where how bulls gain very little weight on fina unless estrogen was present...Im not really convinced it builds any size at all. not on its own anyway. its really just an anti catabolic on paper... perhaps guys are just fatter than they think and once they can finally see the muscle after leaning out from it, they assume the tren must of made them bigger ;D ;D
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U morons are hillarious.
Using one example of 1 big armed dude who trains his arms all day 7 days a week as proof why you should train that way.
I can give 19348938493993939 examples of dudes who train their arms once a month for 10 minutes and their arms are just as big or bigger than your Serbian fag.
The IQ of getbig.
I hate it when I walk into a gym and these skinny twinks are hogging the stations doing 50 sets of biceps and 50 sets of triceps, multiple days a week. Get the f out of my gym.
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If you see someone at 200lbs, 6% lean and then see him later at 210lbs same conditioning, it's not because he optimized his training routine.
I think if you train as often as you can, as hard as you can, and your routine makes some sense.... that's about as "optimal" as a routine will get. Different people will function best under different approaches
exactly
let me add its always optimal to maximize your training and eating at the LOWEST bodyfat
if you perma bulked like i did you get no where
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U morons are hillarious.
Using one example of 1 big armed dude who trains his arms all day 7 days a week as proof why you should train that way.
I can give 19348938493993939 examples of dudes who train their arms once a month for 10 minutes and their arms are just as big or bigger than your Serbian fag.
The IQ of getbig Cold
I hate it when I walk into a gym and these skinny twinks are hogging the stations doing 50 sets of biceps and 50 sets of triceps, multiple days a week. Get the f out of my gym.
Gal was talking about overtraining
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Marko Novakovic, great built. Natural of course
yah him
those arms can step right on regional npc stage and make many look very bad.even in consditioning.
they dont look overtrain to me, and he trains them more or less indirectly for hours daily.
ofc hes a honorable natty too.
he just adaprts the intensity.
and he built tolerance tot raining over long time, surely some newcomer cant pull off the same from noobie status.but,it works for him.
U morons are hillarious.
Using one example of 1 big armed dude who trains his arms all day 7 days a week as proof why you should train that way.
I can give 19348938493993939 examples of dudes who train their arms once a month for 10 minutes and their arms are just as big or bigger than your Serbian fag.
The IQ of getbig.
I hate it when I walk into a gym and these skinny twinks are hogging the stations doing 50 sets of biceps and 50 sets of triceps, multiple days a week. Get the f out of my gym.
he looks jacked all over, look his shoulders.
heres another thing, when we have 1 mucle per day split, look what happens to the arms.
biceps day, well you train the biceps.btw try to flex the biceps while having the triceps relaxed ;) it doesnt work, and this brings me to my point.
next day, chest.you aware while benchpressing,the biceps is under big workload too?so it was trained again,maybe even with more intensity that the direct biceps day before.flies,presses, cant avoid this, beicep is structuraly working with chest muscle.
shoudler day, it gets indirect work again.
back day i think i mustnt explain the invlvement of biceps here.
wheneevr we train something upper body, almost everything gets worked out anyway.
and,your buddies with those bigger arms(where do they compete?the serbian "fag" has worldclass arms, even for bbuilding standards,ok fitenss or physique class maybe)if they trained them more often maybe?
we dont know for sure.
in the end,the physique is doing the talk
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good point. Olympic lifters have huge legs for their weight classes and squat twice per day every day for years on end. And with a hell of a lot more weight than these bodybuilders
x2
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as an aside and something to consider, i dont think its the muscles ability to recover that you have to worry about from over training. imo based on my experiences w the right compounds as stated before your recovery time should be ample given only wanting to train everything 2x a week.
where i think the bigger problem lies is the tendons and your cns. the fibre itself can take a pounding, its the tendons that seem to need longer time to heal. ever notice how after a hard arm workout sometimes that forearm tendon that attaches itself onto the top of the brachialis is sore for days after the actual fibre trained has repaired? that is what will be your limiting factor- the tendons. at the bicep attachments, pectoralis etc etc but that too will pass once you get your body used to the increased volume and frequency.
great example about olympic lifters btw.
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as an aside and something to consider, i dont think its the muscles ability to recover that you have to worry about from over training. imo based on my experiences w the right compounds as stated before your recovery time should be ample given only wanting to train everything 2x a week.
where i think the bigger problem lies is the tendons and your cns. the fibre itself can take a pounding, its the tendons that seem to need longer time to heal. ever notice how after a hard arm workout sometimes that forearm tendon that attaches itself onto the top of the brachialis is sore for days after the actual fibre trained has repaired? that is what will be your limiting factor- the tendons. at the bicep attachments, pectoralis etc etc but that too will pass once you get your body used to the increased volume and frequency.
great example about olympic lifters btw.
It's right the opposite bro, at least IMO.
Broz used to have that small column on overtraining on his website, not anymore. There he cited neurochemist, very interesting read by the way. The only thing that can stop you from lifting daily, three times per day is your muscles and tendons. CNS won't burn out just as it does not burn out for ping pong players, starcraft players, quake3 gamers and such :P These activities also require neurological adaptation and as we know the only way to achieve that is putting a lot of stress on it.
That being said, after very heavy set of 1 rep max sometimes you WILL feel burn out even though your muscles are not even a little bit sore. But if you continue to do that daily, every day you will eventually adapt. The only thing what remains constant is the time of recovery of your muscles and tendons. I have spoken to olympic lifter and he claimed that actually lifting daily is better than lifting 3-4x per week because if you lift daily, you (your muscles) will be so fatigued and sore that you won't be actually able to perform at your usual level THUS your tendonds and CNS won't get stressed as much. 3x per week or even less frequent workouts tempt you to perform at your maximal possible level so either you limit yourself or you WILL get injured.
This is also why people say "wow, it's impossible to train for 1-3 reps 7 times per week, I've tried maxing out every week and I failed". What they don't realise is that maxing out every day is SAFER than maxing out every week and allows you to adapt.
I never tried that myself but most top athletes in olympic weightlifting train this way so there MUST be something to it :P There are some limitations to this, for example lower back recovers poorly so you will have to squat olympic style and avoid deadlifts. High reps are not recommended :P I wish back then when I was younger and had more time I knew about this, I would certainly give it a try.
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Good post deceiver.
Broz program is of course heavily influenced by the Bulgarian method.
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It's right the opposite bro, at least IMO.
Broz used to have that small column on overtraining on his website, not anymore. There he cited neurochemist, very interesting read by the way. The only thing that can stop you from lifting daily, three times per day is your muscles and tendons. CNS won't burn out just as it does not burn out for ping pong players, starcraft players, quake3 gamers and such :P These activities also require neurological adaptation and as we know the only way to achieve that is putting a lot of stress on it.
That being said, after very heavy set of 1 rep max sometimes you WILL feel burn out even though your muscles are not even a little bit sore. But if you continue to do that daily, every day you will eventually adapt. The only thing what remains constant is the time of recovery of your muscles and tendons. I have spoken to olympic lifter and he claimed that actually lifting daily is better than lifting 3-4x per week because if you lift daily, you (your muscles) will be so fatigued and sore that you won't be actually able to perform at your usual level THUS your tendonds and CNS won't get stressed as much. 3x per week or even less frequent workouts tempt you to perform at your maximal possible level so either you limit yourself or you WILL get injured.
This is also why people say "wow, it's impossible to train for 1-3 reps 7 times per week, I've tried maxing out every week and I failed". What they don't realise is that maxing out every day is SAFER than maxing out every week and allows you to adapt.
I never tried that myself but most top athletes in olympic weightlifting train this way so there MUST be something to it :P There are some limitations to this, for example lower back recovers poorly so you will have to squat olympic style and avoid deadlifts. High reps are not recommended :P I wish back then when I was younger and had more time I knew about this, I would certainly give it a try.
hey bro great post thanks for that lots of solid info in there.
in my post I was speaking to what prevents me from training each muscle group more often and more often than not it's sore tendons not the muscle group itself.
for example I went to do arms 3 nights ago. my tris and bis were feeling tight so that's always a good indicator to me they are good to go- tight by meaning I can make then cramp easily in a second or two just by flexing them.
so off to the gym I go, ready for a killer arm workout. I start w bbell curls for bis and goddamn it if that tendon isn't so sore it's all I can think abt thru the entire range of motion. so naturally where the mind is, the stress follows, and because in thinking abt how sore those tendons are all I can feel is them burning further.
no matter what I did after this ie dbell curl etc it was that tendon I felt. I did one more set pack it in disgustedly and went home. no sense spinning my wheels.
I'm sure you know what I mean. you'll notice it happen w all your other groups too. I'm talking for guys who train w weights for your sole purpose of hypertrophy in my case tho not Olympic athletes or power lifters.
I'm the years I've been doing this there has always been a way to train around a still mildly, not entirely recovered muscle group (not painful to the touch sore, sore where you feel it a bit as you warm up). a different angle. a different exercise etc. but sore tendons forget about it. not happening.
so in my experience it's the tendons that need time to get used to workload over the cell itself. I think the cell repairs at a much fasted rate than tendon. that's when tendon surgery is such a bitch to rehab.
again all in the scope of my own experience and what objectives I am hoping to achieve from my sessions.
awesome love this kind of discussion lots of good info and shared knowledge. it betters everyone when you get into things like this. even people not participating in these types of threads just casually reading will take something away from it.
as for the CNS comment in my experience when I'm hitting everything 3x every 6 days for weeks on end, I find my muscles and tendons will get to the point where they can adapt to the workload but the CNS burning out is a very real, very prohibitive consequence. it normally takes me literally months of training like this kind of volume w one day off here and there to hit that wall but when I do there's now amount of good or drugs that will bridge that the body will need rest and not just one or two days.
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I agree with the tendon issues but thats mostly upperbody push muscles and smaller muscles like biceps. Yes, they need more time to recover. Legs on the other hand can take a beating. Legs can run marathons for fucks sake. They can walk across continents.
Like I've said before here and other threads, even on only 1000 calories I can set PRs in the squat and with rows. However, push muscle strength is either stagnant or goes down. This is without AAS. It's always been this way for me and I've observed it in other people as well. Same with other nattys cutting who I follow on youtube.
As for the cns... man, these oly lifters are maxing out regularly in multiple lifts - not just the squat. There has to be some sort of adaptation.
This from Neuro_doc a neurobiologist who posted on bbing.com in a thread with Broz.
http://forum.bodybuilding.com/showthread.php?t=121212081&page=11
@crackyflipside - In the "dark times"? it's just as I said, a lot like "withdrawl"? from substance abuse. If you want the specifics, Ill try to lay them out for you as best I can. Maybe this will clear up some of the misconceptions people like IA and his nuthuggers have over what actually happens when you lift weights. Then again, maybe monkeys will fly out of my behind...
Most people think the only part of the body to adapt to lifting are the muscles, tendons, ligaments, etc. In fact, the brain also adapts to whatever stress you put on the body. It physically changes its structure and ability to deal with chemicals which directly relate to your physical activity. If you are a runner, youll get better at making and using chemicals which deal with running. Youll also develop and affinity for extremely short shorts, politics, FOX news, granola, etc.
One thing that pissed me off about IA is his insistence that the CNS fatigues? in some way. Bulls**t. People are still taught that the nervous system runs off of electrical impulses like a power cable. It doesnt. The nerve impulses (synapses) run off of chemicals (neurotransmitters). If these chemicals are not present, there is no signal between brain and muscle. The reason you can measure electrical impulses in the nervous system is because the electrical impulse is a BYPRODUCT of this chemical reaction. Its called an electrochemical reaction.
A large part of how strong we are is the ability to create and deal with a higher concentration of these neurotransmitters. The nerves develop more receptor sites to connect with them, and the glands learn to make more of the neurotransmitters themselves. Only then do you get a stronger impulse.
When you start placing demands on the brain to lift maximum weights every day, it says "oh crap I need to learn how to make and use these chemicals or hes going to kill us". So it goes through an adaptive period where it shuts down some functions and tries to upgrade?. These are the "dark times"?.
The main chemical in muscle contraction is SEROTONIN. It actually regulates how HARD the muscle contracts, which is why only the heaviest weights seem to effect our mood, the reason why people shy away from maximal lifting and cower from the imaginary symptoms of overtraining.
Serotonin just happens to be the main feel good hormone in the body. It directly effects your mood and mental outlook, your “happiness” and willingness to train. Your sleep, appetite, and also effects the cardiovascular system (your heart rate increases when you are supposedly overtrained - this is why). The serotonin cycle in the brain gets screwed up when drug addicts go into withdrawl (most recreational drugs artificially influence the serotonin pathways, which is why they are so much fun). There are other neurotransmitters which get effected by this (acetylcholine for example), but serotonin is the big one.
So, when the body receives a demand to lift heavy things on a daily basis, the brain shuts down the serotonin receptors to upgrade them. The brain structure changes take a few days to a few weeks. Changes in individual nerves happen quickly, a few days at most. This is why the dark times occur. Its the adaptive period thats needed for the brain and body to get to the next higher level. Natures little joke is obviously making us feel like crap when we are actually improving.
The body is trying to get us to stop the stress so it isnt forced to remodel the whole place, but thats exactly what you want. Thats why its so important to keep pounding away through it all. You want the greatest adaptation to take place.
Guys who are afraid of this response are guys who are lifting because they like the way it makes them feel. If you do lighter workouts, this serotonin is raised, but there is no signal to adapt. You feel “high”. Basically lifting weights becomes like a drug. People feel better doing light useless workouts, just like they feel better taking a hit of crack. I think this is why no one wants to try lifting the Bulgarian way. They are addicts.
You asked me about cortisol. There are no good and bad hormones. There are only hormones specific to your physical activity. Do you know why cortisol is released in weight lifting? Cortisol controls the blood pressure and concentration of blood sugar.
With short bursts of intense lifting (singles and doubles), blood sugar is not the primary fuel. Blood sugar only becomes an issue when you are doing higher reps. Cortisol is released mainly as a way to cope with these high reps, a way to shuttle more fuel (blood sugar) into the muscle tissue by using higher blood pressure. This is one reason bodybuilders have their posing trunks in a bunch over it. Cortisol is dealt with just like serotonin. The body tries to adapt to using it, and all the bodybuilders run and scream. If they stuck with it theyd go through a response much like the “Dark times, and theyd be able to handle more high rep sets afterwards.
In this case, cortisol is specific to the activity bodybuilders, not power or olympic lifters. Keep your reps low and you never have to worry about it. (It has nothing to do with total volume, only reps in the set.)
Thats funny what you mentioned about the Bulgarians having huge adrenals. It makes sense. They adapt by getting larger and stronger just like anything else. Thats also a great argument against limiting “genetics”. Someone else would look at normal sized adrenals and say they would obviously be overloaded by stress. The Bulgarians entire organism changed in response to their lifting. Form follows function. Awesome stuff.
The adrenals dont only release cortisol, they release adrenaline as well. Adrenaline acts as one of the triggers to this adaptive period. You should go read the lecture by Ivan Abajiev here :
- weightliftingexchange.co m/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=74&Itemi d=75
He explains this whole adaptive period and how it effects more than just the musculature. Go read the paragraphs which start with:
"So this is our aim when we are training athletes, that we would build up all those organs and muscles needed for a certain performance, not only the muscles, but the whole cardiovascular and other systems that support the working of the muscles in order for a better performance. The adaptive process however, does not only include all the lungs and the heart and the other organs that I mentioned."
So I hope I explained that all well enough. Bottom line, from a physiological standpoint - BROZ IS RIGHT. Let me know if you have any other questions.
Take care.
(p.s. - If you think maxing squats daily is tough, try typing all of this out on a phone!)
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Monday- chest triceps abs cardio
Tuesday- back biceps cardio
Wed- legs shoulders
Thursday- chest triceps abs cardio
Friday- back biceps cardio abs
saturday- lefs shoulders forearms
Sunday- off
Th, fr, sat doing supersets and dropsets.
Amlost puked myself in the gym today after three dropsets of sqauts , 3 of front squats and deadlift stlye squats. Head is still spinning. Loving every bit of it.
;D
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Monday- chest triceps abs cardio
Tuesday- back biceps cardio
Wed- legs shoulders
Thursday- chest triceps abs cardio
Friday- back biceps cardio abs
saturday- lefs shoulders forearms
Sunday- off
Th, fr, sat doing supersets and dropsets.
Amlost puked myself in the gym today after three dropsets of sqauts , 3 of front squats and deadlift stlye squats. Head is still spinning. Loving every bit of it.
;D
do your shoulders with chest and triceps.... if you can do much of anything after a full leg routine theres somthing amiss
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Monday- chest triceps abs cardio
Tuesday- back biceps cardio
Wed- legs shoulders
Thursday- chest triceps abs cardio
Friday- back biceps cardio abs
saturday- lefs shoulders forearms
Sunday- off
Th, fr, sat doing supersets and dropsets.
Amlost puked myself in the gym today after three dropsets of sqauts , 3 of front squats and deadlift stlye squats. Head is still spinning. Loving every bit of it.
;D
hey bro, can i suggest something?
try
back shoulders in that order on one day
chest arms super setting bi's and tris the next in that order
legs the next.
repeat
forget the drop sets and super sets except for arms. giant sets are great however. other than that keep your workout pretty standard. you'll get enough volume hitting everything 3x in 9 days. the idea is not destroy the muscle, apply enough stress to cause it to need to repair and then hit it 48 hours later. thats where the growth is. and drop the cardio, just go set to set to set with no rest. the idea is to get in and out under 25 minutes.
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hey bro, can i suggest something?
try
back shoulders in that order on one day
chest arms the next in that order
legs the next.
repeat
forget the supersets and drop sets. just keep it like that. you'll get enough volume hitting everything 3x in 9 days. the idea is not destroy the muscle, apply enough stress to cause it to need to repair and then hit it 48 hours later. thats where the growth is. and drop the cardio, just go set to set to set with no rest. the idea is to get in and out under 25 minutes.
your a moron... sorry i had to be the one to share this with you
no hard feelings?
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your a moron... sorry i had to be the one to share this with you
no hard feelings?
none, at all bro. im happy to help where i can. my advise is free and good. if someone wants to take it and better themselves great. if not, great. :)
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your a moron... sorry i had to be the one to share this with you
no hard feelings?
the guy is an elite bber and it actually makes sense. If volume determined growth, then we could grow lifting the same load. If my best bench was 400 for 5 reps....and I hit 400 for 10 reps today. Is there anything that cable flyes, weighted dips, or hammer presses are going to do that that set of bench press didn't? I doubt it.
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always made my best gains training 3 days per week. Always made my best size gains in the higher rep ranges 15-20. tried training 5 days per week occasionally and always ended up looking flat and like shit.
probably you were undereating.
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day 1, chest & back, abs
day 2, shoulders & arms, abs
day 3, legs,
training 6 consecutive days, then 1 day off.(no matter holidays or sunday.)
musclecenter is so inspiring. Amazing.
Legend.
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I do
Workout A : chest-back-shoulders-abs
Workout B : quads-hams-calves-biceps-triceps
2on / 1 off , 3 sets to failure per bodypart
This works for me
Respect
Madg
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do your shoulders with chest and triceps.... if you can do much of anything after a full leg routine theres somthing amiss
i go bazooka on legs. Shoulder workout cant feel a thing. Everything just goes numb.
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musclecenter is so inspiring. Amazing.
Legend.
thanks,
pic from yesterday
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thanks,
pic from yesterday
ylls hth
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chest, back & abs today(sunday)