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Getbig Bodybuilding Boards => Steroids Info & Hardcore => Topic started by: Wolfox on January 04, 2014, 04:55:10 AM
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Just wondering which is better? And if it makes a difference in keeping gains?
this is for someone who would be doing a 15week test cycle and will be going off...no hrt dosages after.
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Do it at the beginning. Doing it at the end will negatively effect your recovery.
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It won't really matter, try and run it for 8 weeks for any hope of lasting gains.
Probably run it towards the middle to boost your cycle
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Use it at the beginning to kick start the cycle.
8)
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Begging. It has a kickstart effect. Love Dbol. Makes me feel like a brute alpha male.
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at the beginning 8)
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Do it at the beginning. Doing it at the end will negatively effect your recovery.
How so?
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How so?
Dbol at good doses is pretty suppressive. I would taper things down if he really wants to come off. Or he could run low doses of dbol while test clears his system.
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Do it at the beginning. Doing it at the end will negatively effect your recovery.
It's a drop in the bucket. No one, NO ONE truly recovers especially at the speed that guys online made it seem. Everyone seems to think that 4 weeks of nolva or clomid will patch everything right up. Tell that to an endo and they'll laugh. They'll expect you in for a couple of years which includes a couple of follow ups, but you'll still never feel the same way before steroids. Never.
Do the dbol whenever you need. I like the blast and cruise approach. Bodies are fragile and if you put on a ton of new muscle you need to train and eat hard before your body tolerates it. It'll go away as quickly as you gain it if you're not serious. That's why I recommend getting lean before you bulk because you have a lot of momentum, increased insulin sensitivity, higher GH production and a lot of psychological benefits.
When coming off, always taper off on just test alone. Even though test is suppressive, you won't have any massive changes in your body composition. I always stay on the same compounds for a few weeks, keep training and eating moderate and rest well before coming off. Last couple days before coming off I train much lighter, almost just pump workouts. That way when all the compounds really start leaving my system and test gets low, I'm not full of DOMS all over and can train harder and harder before I finally hit the bottom where hormones are obliterated. After you have those one or two abysmal workouts, it's all downhill from there.
I like taking a few 1000iu blasts of HCG and then 500iu a couple of times a week. But after about a month I do take some time off because you don't want to desensitize your leydig receptors or suppress your body even more (you can take too many gonadotropins, just like you can take too many anabolic steroids). Recovery is a sensitive thing. Just go to your primary care physician, play dumb and get them to monitor you, then get some good fertility meds and blood work. After you get the scripts, you can stop pretending to be stupid and tell your GP you've done tons of homework and are eager to help him help yourself with the recovery process.
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It's a drop in the bucket. No one, NO ONE truly recovers especially at the speed that guys online made it seem. Everyone seems to think that 4 weeks of nolva or clomid will patch everything right up. Tell that to an endo and they'll laugh. They'll expect you in for a couple of years which includes a couple of follow ups, but you'll still never feel the same way before steroids. Never.
Do the dbol whenever you need. I like the blast and cruise approach. Bodies are fragile and if you put on a ton of new muscle you need to train and eat hard before your body tolerates it. It'll go away as quickly as you gain it if you're not serious. That's why I recommend getting lean before you bulk because you have a lot of momentum, increased insulin sensitivity, higher GH production and a lot of psychological benefits.
When coming off, always taper off on just test alone. Even though test is suppressive, you won't have any massive changes in your body composition. I always stay on the same compounds for a few weeks, keep training and eating moderate and rest well before coming off. Last couple days before coming off I train much lighter, almost just pump workouts. That way when all the compounds really start leaving my system and test gets low, I'm not full of DOMS all over and can train harder and harder before I finally hit the bottom where hormones are obliterated. After you have those one or two abysmal workouts, it's all downhill from there.
I like taking a few 1000iu blasts of HCG and then 500iu a couple of times a week. But after about a month I do take some time off because you don't want to desensitize your leydig receptors or suppress your body even more (you can take too many gonadotropins, just like you can take too many anabolic steroids). Recovery is a sensitive thing. Just go to your primary care physician, play dumb and get them to monitor you, then get some good fertility meds and blood work. After you get the scripts, you can stop pretending to be stupid and tell your GP you've done tons of homework and are eager to help him help yourself with the recovery process.
I wonder about this. I have pestered my doc in the past about TRT and my numbers were a little too high for him to justify it. If I come in with crashed test, he might get suspicious since he ain't no dummy. Just play dumb?
I am just getting my head around the notion that I am probably gonna be on some level of TRT for life once I start. Since I am almost 50 and my levels are dwindling, I probably shouldn't worry too much about that...
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It's a drop in the bucket. No one, NO ONE truly recovers especially at the speed that guys online made it seem. Everyone seems to think that 4 weeks of nolva or clomid will patch everything right up. Tell that to an endo and they'll laugh. They'll expect you in for a couple of years which includes a couple of follow ups, but you'll still never feel the same way before steroids. Never.
Do the dbol whenever you need. I like the blast and cruise approach. Bodies are fragile and if you put on a ton of new muscle you need to train and eat hard before your body tolerates it. It'll go away as quickly as you gain it if you're not serious. That's why I recommend getting lean before you bulk because you have a lot of momentum, increased insulin sensitivity, higher GH production and a lot of psychological benefits.
When coming off, always taper off on just test alone. Even though test is suppressive, you won't have any massive changes in your body composition. I always stay on the same compounds for a few weeks, keep training and eating moderate and rest well before coming off. Last couple days before coming off I train much lighter, almost just pump workouts. That way when all the compounds really start leaving my system and test gets low, I'm not full of DOMS all over and can train harder and harder before I finally hit the bottom where hormones are obliterated. After you have those one or two abysmal workouts, it's all downhill from there.
I like taking a few 1000iu blasts of HCG and then 500iu a couple of times a week. But after about a month I do take some time off because you don't want to desensitize your leydig receptors or suppress your body even more (you can take too many gonadotropins, just like you can take too many anabolic steroids). Recovery is a sensitive thing. Just go to your primary care physician, play dumb and get them to monitor you, then get some good fertility meds and blood work. After you get the scripts, you can stop pretending to be stupid and tell your GP you've done tons of homework and are eager to help him help yourself with the recovery process.
Sorry bro I like you but this is utter Horse shit BIG TIME, I get my full production and my numbers go back to normal after 2-3 weeks tops. NOBOBY has had as much blood work done as me, I am a fucken lunatic and fanatic.
If you do not get your numbers back in 4 weeks or less it is because you started your PCT too early while your test esters were still active counter acting the potency of the PCT, simple as that.
I will make a thread later explaining a protocol to follow for the end of a cycle and a PCT that will have your numbers back in no time, I swear to GOD 3 weeks max. Only exception is if you been juicing for years.
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Sorry bro I like you but this is utter Horse shit BIG TIME, I get my full production and my numbers go back to normal after 2-3 weeks tops. NOBOBY has had as much blood work done as me, I am a fucken lunatic and fanatic.
If you do not get your numbers back in 4 weeks or less it is because you started your PCT too early while your test esters were still active counter acting the potency of the PCT, simple as that.
I will make a thread later explaining a protocol to follow for the end of a cycle and a PCT that will have your numbers back in no time, I swear to GOD 3 weeks max. Only exception is if you been juicing for years.
Would like to here further explanation of this.because I tend to.agree with Dustin. After my first cycle years ago I followed a perfect pct protocol. All my meds were pharmacy grade too. Well I crashed so hard after that first cycle I was a complete mess. I didn't retain anything. I agree with Dustin after that first cycle your body is never the same.
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I wonder about this. I have pestered my doc in the past about TRT and my numbers were a little too high for him to justify it. If I come in with crashed test, he might get suspicious since he ain't no dummy. Just play dumb?
I am just getting my head around the notion that I am probably gonna be on some level of TRT for life once I start. Since I am almost 50 and my levels are dwindling, I probably shouldn't worry too much about that...
Just play dumb. Get what you need done, son.
Sorry bro I like you but this is utter Horse shit BIG TIME, I get my full production and my numbers go back to normal after 2-3 weeks tops. NOBOBY has had as much blood work done as me, I am a fucken lunatic and fanatic.
If you do not get your numbers back in 4 weeks or less it is because you started your PCT too early while your test esters were still active counter acting the potency of the PCT, simple as that.
I will make a thread later explaining a protocol to follow for the end of a cycle and a PCT that will have your numbers back in no time, I swear to GOD 3 weeks max. Only exception is if you been juicing for years.
ILU2bro (no homo)
I respectfully disagree though. You must be an anomoly. Maybe for a guy who's used dbol a few times or manned up and injected test once or twice. The ones that do are posting a couple of years later saying "What the heck, guys. You told me I'd recover" are the ones I feel sorry for. I've had dozens of tests when I got slammed with infertility and had countless candid discussions with my doctor. He treats all the juicers on the West Coast and has helped them all. And he's very privy to the online scene as that's where all his patients "educate" themselves, myself included. I jizzed in a cup and got blood work every week. I just had a requisition card and went in, got my blood work and the next day my results would be published online for me to check out.
All my first cycles I did cookie cutter PCTs but I still never felt the same. Even after using gonal f, HMG, HCG and all the gonadotropins you can get in Canada I never felt the same. Numbers are a small part of the equation, and are still very difficult to get in proper alignment after using AAS. What I'm advocating is looking at things differently. My numbers on paper are where they should be but I don't feel as solid as I did before using AAS.
People's entire perception of AAS and especially PCT are very skewed and unrealistic. People don't even recognize PCT for what it is, it's just fertility meds we take in hopes of speeding up what the body will do naturally. Sometimes we take too many and impede the natural recovery, or we don't take enough and recovery takes a lot longer than we'd hope and our physique suffers as a result, etc. Sometimes people respond differently. Or sometimes people get ripped off and take fake meds all together. That's why all these anecdotal reports are close to useless.
Even in a clinical setting with double blind placebo studies, you'll find so much variance that all we can do is take the findings with a grain of salt, get ourselves checked out, take legit meds and get bloodwork. The biggest thing to start changing is the perception though. That's why I hate all these cookie cutter guides or people saying "you'll be fine". No, none of us are doctors and none of us know that. I shot blanks into my wife for years even after coming off and being "perfectly recovered". I'm just one guy out of a million who looked at the superficial numbers and thought all was well because of the reassurance I got here. But this stuff needs to be dealt with a doctor in private.
Healthy now, happy, and got myself a beautiful baby girl. But no thanks to the bro advice out there that I realized too heavily on. Not blaming a soul by my own. Just wanting to present another side of the coin because I'd hate others to suffer in the same way I did. One thing I know we'll all agree on is that everyone's different, so just listen to people's experiences and keep them in mind as you go through your own journey. I WISH I would recover just by sniffing a crushed up nolva tablet and rubbing my nipples three times in a circular motion, but I got the shit end of the genetics stick and my endo says he's actually pin me closer to the middle. So apparently some people have it much worse!
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Would like to here further explanation of this.because I tend to.agree with Dustin. After my first cycle years ago I followed a perfect pct protocol. All my meds were pharmacy grade too. Well I crashed so hard after that first cycle I was a complete mess. I didn't retain anything. I agree with Dustin after that first ctrl your body is never the same.
well everyone reacts differently of course, you may not have a good recovery based on your genetics. I work with competitive bodybuilders and almost everyone recovers within weeks. Fuck my numbers sky rocket almost instantly, what is there more to say ??? explain further what?
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well everyone reacts differently of course, you may not have a good recovery based on your genetics. I work with competitive bodybuilders and almost everyone recovers within weeks. Fuck my numbers sky rocket almost instantly, what is there more to say ??? explain further what?
I think he's concerned because not everyone just bounces back. Some people have it worse than I do. Everyone I've met IRL, competitors included, all feel the same. Perhaps it's because we live up North and it's colder and darker here. We all hit the wall during recovery and get miserable. But online, everyone seems to magically bounce back with zero problems which causes me to speculate.
All I have is my personal experience and second hand encounters from friends who've had to see endos as well. Maybe there's something in our water, I don't know. We all recover on paper at some point but nothing like guys online. A guy's got to watch out for himself, and I think when dealing with hormones it's best to err on the side of caution. Hopefully all my ranting is for naught and the OP recovers like a bull. But who knows until all is said and done? No one right now. Best to look at all possibilities, plan for the worst and hope for the best.
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Depending on how long i'm on, it has taken 6-8 weeks to get my Test levels going again. PCT makes a big difference, but it always takes me a few months to get back to within normal range.
When i came off a long 3 years cycle, it took about 8 months for my levels to return to normal.
These days i just blast and cruise while getting blood work done every 3 months or so to make sure everything is good.
8)
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I think he's concerned because not everyone just bounces back. Some people have it worse than I do. Everyone I've met IRL, competitors included, all feel the same. Perhaps it's because we live up North and it's colder and darker here. We all hit the wall during recovery and get miserable. But online, everyone seems to magically bounce back with zero problems which causes me to speculate.
All I have is my personal experience and second hand encounters from friends who've had to see endos as well. Maybe there's something in our water, I don't know. We all recover on paper at some point but nothing like guys online. A guy's got to watch out for himself, and I think when dealing with hormones it's best to err on the side of caution. Hopefully all my ranting is for naught and the OP recovers like a bull. But who knows until all is said and done? No one right now. Best to look at all possibilities, plan for the worst and hope for the best.
long esters double or triple the recovery process, all the people I work with or in the South western Ontario bodybuilding scene, short esters are the norm
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Depending on how long i'm on, it has taken 6-8 weeks to get my Test levels going again. PCT makes a big difference, but it always takes me a few months to get back to within normal range.
When i came off a long 3 years cycle, it took about 8 months for my levels to return to normal.
These days i just blast and cruise while getting blood work done every 3 months or so to make sure everything is good.
8)
Ya but you are a veteran, the OP was talking about a 15 week cycle.
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long esters double or triple the recovery process, all the people I work with or in the South western Ontario bodybuilding scene, short esters are the norm
Short esters are the norm for smart lifters. Everyone in Canada who's new to juicing always gets tempted by the T400 and T500 blends. Then they text me and ask for a ride to the hospital because the sketchy Test9000 they bought off some sketchy dealer has their injection site pulsing with pain. ::) ;D
Short esters for me all the way. Would only ever use a long ester gear if it was given to me for free.
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Short esters are the norm for smart lifters. Everyone in Canada who's new to juicing always gets tempted by the T400 and T500 blends. Then they text me and ask for a ride to the hospital because the sketchy Test9000 they bought off some sketchy dealer has their injection site pulsing with pain. ::) ;D
Short esters for me all the way. Would only ever use a long ester gear if it was given to me for free.
May sound like a rookie question but....why does it matter? Test is test, nandrolone, nandrolone. Why do u care about ester so much, unless you just don't wanna wait for it to kick in?
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Short esters are the norm for smart lifters. Everyone in Canada who's new to juicing always gets tempted by the T400 and T500 blends. Then they text me and ask for a ride to the hospital because the sketchy Test9000 they bought off some sketchy dealer has their injection site pulsing with pain. ::) ;D
Short esters for me all the way. Would only ever use a long ester gear if it was given to me for free.
I never try those 500mg/ml blends. Cut mix, bulk mix, etc.
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It's a drop in the bucket. No one, NO ONE truly recovers especially at the speed that guys online made it seem. Everyone seems to think that 4 weeks of nolva or clomid will patch everything right up. Tell that to an endo and they'll laugh. They'll expect you in for a couple of years which includes a couple of follow ups, but you'll still never feel the same way before steroids. Never.
Do the dbol whenever you need. I like the blast and cruise approach. Bodies are fragile and if you put on a ton of new muscle you need to train and eat hard before your body tolerates it. It'll go away as quickly as you gain it if you're not serious. That's why I recommend getting lean before you bulk because you have a lot of momentum, increased insulin sensitivity, higher GH production and a lot of psychological benefits.
When coming off, always taper off on just test alone. Even though test is suppressive, you won't have any massive changes in your body composition. I always stay on the same compounds for a few weeks, keep training and eating moderate and rest well before coming off. Last couple days before coming off I train much lighter, almost just pump workouts. That way when all the compounds really start leaving my system and test gets low, I'm not full of DOMS all over and can train harder and harder before I finally hit the bottom where hormones are obliterated. After you have those one or two abysmal workouts, it's all downhill from there.
I like taking a few 1000iu blasts of HCG and then 500iu a couple of times a week. But after about a month I do take some time off because you don't want to desensitize your leydig receptors or suppress your body even more (you can take too many gonadotropins, just like you can take too many anabolic steroids). Recovery is a sensitive thing. Just go to your primary care physician, play dumb and get them to monitor you, then get some good fertility meds and blood work. After you get the scripts, you can stop pretending to be stupid and tell your GP you've done tons of homework and are eager to help him help yourself with the recovery process.
When I came off after being on for 1 year on a heavy cycle I was very shut down for like 10months and I was 22 at the time.. I recently just came off of a very short mild cycle and I'm currently doing a clomid restart.. I take 25mgs Monday, Wednesday, and Friday and will do so for 6 months..that's after running 4 weeks of clomid and nolvadex... I'll keep you posted on how I feel after..we talked about this before in PMs and I completely agree with what your saying about not feeling completely like you did before ever touching a cycle.. I am very concerned about my sperm counts and will take a good couple years off because I want to have kids in the near future
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May sound like a rookie question but....why does it matter? Test is test, nandrolone, nandrolone. Why do u care about ester so much, unless you just don't wanna wait for it to kick in?
I notice a different feeling on esters and the body does react to them differently, the argument of test is test is not a valid one, just think what test no ester does right after a shot
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When I came off after being on for 1 year on a heavy cycle I was very shut down for like 10months and I was 22 at the time.. I recently just came off of a very short mild cycle and I'm currently doing a clomid restart.. I take 25mgs Monday, Wednesday, and Friday and will do so for 6 months..that's after running 4 weeks of clomid and nolvadex... I'll keep you posted on how I feel after..we talked about this before in PMs and I completely agree with what your saying about not feeling completely like you did before ever touching a cycle.. I am very concerned about my sperm counts and will take a good couple years off because I want to have kids in the near future
25mg of clomid 3 times a week is a extremely mild approach, if you want to start up quickly PCT as to be aggressive enough in a sort burst, no wonder it will take you 6 months.
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I notice a different feeling on esters and the body does react to them differently, the argument of test is test is not a valid one, just think what test no ester does right after a shot
I agree wholeheartedly.
I've seen people argue about x mgs this and x mgs of that is the same, but I'm sorry - short esters for the win, no questions asked. Whether it's because it saturates the blood quicker or whatever, I don't care. Short esters are the best.
And no, I never run that T16 million blended gear either. The biggest blend I ever ran was a T300 mix when I first started. I would get red injection sites and any time I scratched my body I'd break out in hives. Terrible, terrible gear lol
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25mg of clomid 3 times a week is a extremely mild approach, if you want to start up quickly PCT as to be aggressive enough in a sort burst, no wonder it will take you 6 months.
Your misunderstanding me.. My pct is always 10,000ius of hcg taken 1,000ius a days for ten days.. I then use clomid and nolvadex for 4 weeks.. This is something different that I'm trying that has been pretty successfull with people with low sperm counts as well as secondary hypogonadism.... I'm running this after I have already completed my standered pct..I plan to stay off until after I have kids in the next few years
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It's a drop in the bucket. No one, NO ONE truly recovers especially at the speed that guys online made it seem. Everyone seems to think that 4 weeks of nolva or clomid will patch everything right up. Tell that to an endo and they'll laugh. They'll expect you in for a couple of years which includes a couple of follow ups, but you'll still never feel the same way before steroids. Never.
Do the dbol whenever you need. I like the blast and cruise approach. Bodies are fragile and if you put on a ton of new muscle you need to train and eat hard before your body tolerates it. It'll go away as quickly as you gain it if you're not serious. That's why I recommend getting lean before you bulk because you have a lot of momentum, increased insulin sensitivity, higher GH production and a lot of psychological benefits.
When coming off, always taper off on just test alone. Even though test is suppressive, you won't have any massive changes in your body composition. I always stay on the same compounds for a few weeks, keep training and eating moderate and rest well before coming off. Last couple days before coming off I train much lighter, almost just pump workouts. That way when all the compounds really start leaving my system and test gets low, I'm not full of DOMS all over and can train harder and harder before I finally hit the bottom where hormones are obliterated. After you have those one or two abysmal workouts, it's all downhill from there.
I like taking a few 1000iu blasts of HCG and then 500iu a couple of times a week. But after about a month I do take some time off because you don't want to desensitize your leydig receptors or suppress your body even more (you can take too many gonadotropins, just like you can take too many anabolic steroids). Recovery is a sensitive thing. Just go to your primary care physician, play dumb and get them to monitor you, then get some good fertility meds and blood work. After you get the scripts, you can stop pretending to be stupid and tell your GP you've done tons of homework and are eager to help him help yourself with the recovery process.
this is plain and simply the pure truth.
hard awakeing ahead for those who think pct will fix anything,lol.
if you think of it, when nothing works nomore, a doc will give you test, not some pct.
true, after first time to the darkside, maybe not after 1 small cycle, but certainly after 2 and more, things will never be like before.
4weeks,lol, it takes 4 weeks to get rid of all the esters, 2-3weeks are ok, the downfall comes after that.
after 2-3months things will be ok-ish again, and they wont improve anymore after that.you get stuck where you are after 3months off, this is consistent observation.
sometimes, when 1-2years pass and you dont even lift and get normal fat again with no muscle, things seem to work ok again.
lol pct.
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Depending on how long i'm on, it has taken 6-8 weeks to get my Test levels going again. PCT makes a big difference, but it always takes me a few months to get back to within normal range.
When i came off a long 3 years cycle, it took about 8 months for my levels to return to normal.
These days i just blast and cruise while getting blood work done every 3 months or so to make sure everything is good.
8)
ah yes, getting test production going happens quick, but full full recovery like before first cycle ever, hm, dont think so.
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this is plain and simply the pure truth.
hard awakeing ahead for those who think pct will fix anything,lol.
if you think of it, when nothing works nomore, a doc will give you test, not some pct.
true, after first time to the darkside, maybe not after 1 small cycle, but certainly after 2 and more, things will never be like before.
4weeks,lol, it takes 4 weeks to get rid of all the esters, 2-3weeks are ok, the downfall comes after that.
after 2-3months things will be ok-ish again, and they wont improve anymore after that.you get stuck where you are after 3months off, this is consistent observation.
sometimes, when 1-2years pass and you dont even lift and get normal fat again with no muscle, things seem to work ok again.
lol pct.
After my 4th cycle I noticed that I did not feel the same anymore when I came off..I felt ok but not like I did before I took steroids..
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this is plain and simply the pure truth.
hard awakeing ahead for those who think pct will fix anything,lol.
if you think of it, when nothing works nomore, a doc will give you test, not some pct.
true, after first time to the darkside, maybe not after 1 small cycle, but certainly after 2 and more, things will never be like before.
4weeks,lol, it takes 4 weeks to get rid of all the esters, 2-3weeks are ok, the downfall comes after that.
after 2-3months things will be ok-ish again, and they wont improve anymore after that.you get stuck where you are after 3months off, this is consistent observation.
sometimes, when 1-2years pass and you dont even lift and get normal fat again with no muscle, things seem to work ok again.
lol pct.
well all I give a fuck is my test level, the rest means shit to me, its mostly psychological. I mean my dick works and my test levels are normal, what more am I complaining about here? PCT helps my test levels and my balls, I don't get it if you feel like shit afterwards, I know everyone says I felt like shit for a year, really a year? what? exactly what is wrong for a year ???
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op will be having serious doubts about starting this first cycle now :D
The "keeping gains" concern with newbs always cracks me up. ;D
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well all I give a fuck is my test level, the rest means shit to me, its mostly psychological. I mean my dick works and my test levels are normal, what more am I complaining about here? PCT helps my test levels and my balls, I don't get it if you feel like shit afterwards, I know everyone says I felt like shit for a year, really a year? what? exactly what is wrong for a year ???
yeah true, after 4-8 weeks, the test levels are on the lower,but normal range for me.
its not bad-bad, its just not like age 20anymore :-X
in other words, the dick sometimes suddenly falls down ;D
op will be having serious doubts about starting this first cycle now :D
The "keeping gains" concern with newbs always cracks me up. ;D
the keeping gains is the best one ;D
love it how the steroid book say if you do a "Mild" winstrol cvycle youll gain quality mass and be able to keep most of it.
haha, this is hilarious, first even a mild winny cycle is hefty stuff compared ot natural,and if the gains supposedly stay why didnt they come without the winny in the first place? ;D
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Keeping gains is bull I didn't know the ride I'd be in for. Better to never start and stay natural or go into full well knowing you will be injecting or rubbing some kind of jell on yourself rest of your life. The crash I had after my first cycle was foolishly half way into my senior year football season. I was so Catabolic I felt like I lost five pounds a day for the first week being off. It sucked! That muscle had not become solid.
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Keeping gains is bullying I didn't know the ride I'd be in for. Better to never start and stay natural or go into full well knowing you will be injecting or rubbing some kind of jell on yourself rest of your life. The crash I had after my first cycle was foolishly half way into my senior year football season. I was so Catabolic I felt like I lost five pounds a day for the first week being off. It sucked! That muscle had not become solid.
Yup. Your nuts don't go back into full production for a while. Sometimes they never go back to pre-cycle levels. Buyer beware boys.
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this is plain and simply the pure truth.
hard awakeing ahead for those who think pct will fix anything,lol.
if you think of it, when nothing works nomore, a doc will give you test, not some pct.
true, after first time to the darkside, maybe not after 1 small cycle, but certainly after 2 and more, things will never be like before.
4weeks,lol, it takes 4 weeks to get rid of all the esters, 2-3weeks are ok, the downfall comes after that.
after 2-3months things will be ok-ish again, and they wont improve anymore after that.you get stuck where you are after 3months off, this is consistent observation.
sometimes, when 1-2years pass and you dont even lift and get normal fat again with no muscle, things seem to work ok again.
lol pct.
Thanks for the backing - see, this is REAL LIFE. No one's going to do a bodybuilding.com 8 week, 500mg test cycle followed by 4 weeks of nolva and clomid and recover 100%, never to do a cycle again because they put on 40lbs of lean muscle, retained it and lived happily ever after. This is the real fucking world!!!!!!!!!!
People who pick up a biology book and read a little about endocrinology will understand what a marvel our body is. If something fucks up, things will happen to balance out that fuck up. Taking steroids is super unnatural and is a cataclysmic event in terms of endocrinology and homeostasis. When we take fertility meds, all we're doing is using a spade to try scooping water out of a sinking ship. If you so wish, you may try your utmost to stop what's happening but natural will take over. And it takes a long time to recover naturally, so long that gains from an AAS cycle will dissipate. So you need to understand that cycling is useless, you need to go big or go home. Once you mend a hole in that vessel, it'll never have the same structural integrity as it did before. People do not seem to understand this. Just because it floats, doesn't mean it was as good as it once was. It is not compromised, changed, damaged, imperfect. It was already perfect before. Natural has perfected our bodies and we've gone against that. I'm not patronizing anyone, I do the exact same thing. I'm just saying what a lot of people can't see.
Now, the conundrum with that is that you cause further damage. You will never fully recover. Your endocrinologist will laugh if you think that you will. They know that their job is to mitigate the fuckery you've done, they know they can't fix it. Even if they say they will, in the back of their mind they're thinking you're a stupid juicehead and that they'll just get your wee wee working again so you can fuck off and leave their office.
You can get your numbers back to the textbook ranges but you'll never feel the same, ever. And your hormones will shift around because you've introduced supraphysiological changes that set everything out of order. If you keep things in order, hormones will only slide up and down the scale within a certain range. Taking exogenous sex steroids at supraphysiological levels for extended period of times changes everything, so you can't expect textbook numbers to mean anything. You're different. You're not a normal person anymore, so the numbers mean close to nothing. They're superficial.
I think you just need HCG and clomid if you're concerned about the volume of nut butter or your sperm, or if you're concerned about the size of your nuts. Outside of that, you're better off just staying on gear forever. It's getting cheaper, more insurance providers are covering it, doctors prescribe it with ease, needles are virtually cost free if you buy a couple of boxes at a time and it's got a lot more socially tolerant to pin. My only concern is the false expectations that everyone has.
Dr. Stephen Hudson was the angel that set me straight and had tons of candid discussions with me. He helped us to conceive and never bashed me for taking steroids (aside from the ice breaking comment when he said I've sure got small nuts, knowing exactly why they were atrophied lol) Always willing to give me tons of print outs and links to studies he thinks might have been of interest. He assists at UBC's department of Obstetrics and Gynecology and let me pick the brains of other guys out there who are familiar with the anabolic generation. Lots of juicers in Vancouver and a few studies there and on the Island regarding exogenous hormone use for things like male birth control among other interests. These guys have been dealing with sex steroids longer than most of us have been alive, and I'm going to take their word over anyone else's. If anyone here truly thinks there're 100% recovered after cycling then good for them. I sincerely hope they are and wish that everyone could be that lucky, but for everyone else who fills the majority they can consider my insights.
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I've been off for about a month and don't plan on going back on. Truth is I don't even remember what it feels like to be natural ;D
Maybe guys have unrealistic expectations on how they'll feel natural but I'm not expecting a whole lot. And you can't base your entire existence based on the way you look, slowly start withering away, and expect to feel good. If you manage to get your hormone levels within normal range post steroid use and you feel like shit it has to be psychological...
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I've been off for about a month and don't plan on going back on. Truth is I don't even remember what it feels like to be natural ;D
Maybe guys have unrealistic expectations on how they'll feel natural but I'm not expecting a whole lot. And you can't base your entire existence based on the way you look, slowly start withering away, and expect to feel good. If you manage to get your hormone levels within normal range post steroid use and you feel like shit it has to be psychological...
Well, most people online say you'll feel 100% fine and if you don't then you didn't "do PCT properly" which is utter bullshit.
If I could get away with being natural I'd love it. I didn't look bad the year and a bit I took off to get my wife pregnant. Just a LITTLE gear and I looked ideal. I'm back on gear and shooting for an ideal, easy to maintain physique. Some more time training and dieting properly, maybe some GH may help me to get there. And if I do stay on, it'll just be HRT doses with small blasts and cruises when I feel small. I will always stay lean no matter what, I hate cutting so I'll always stay very lean. That's a lot harder to accomplish while natural without shrinking.
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I've been off for about a month and don't plan on going back on. Truth is I don't even remember what it feels like to be natural ;D
Maybe guys have unrealistic expectations on how they'll feel natural but I'm not expecting a whole lot. And you can't base your entire existence based on the way you look, slowly start withering away, and expect to feel good. If you manage to get your hormone levels within normal range post steroid use and you feel like shit it has to be psychological...
good point right here, in fact best post of the entire thread.
, what does it mean when people say I have not been normal for 6 months, I am still waiting for an answer, how exactly do you know what you feel and what it is from and if it is not normal, what exactly is wrong for 6 months, details? what? do you guys get a head ache, can not sleep? bad temper, what? I seriously do not understand.
Maybe it is just psychological ??? I mean of course I do not feel good when I am not benching 500 pounds. lol :D
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Well, most people online say you'll feel 100% fine and if you don't then you didn't "do PCT properly" which is utter bullshit.
If I could get away with being natural I'd love it. I didn't look bad the year and a bit I took off to get my wife pregnant. Just a LITTLE gear and I looked ideal. I'm back on gear and shooting for an ideal, easy to maintain physique. Some more time training and dieting properly, maybe some GH may help me to get there. And if I do stay on, it'll just be HRT doses with small blasts and cruises when I feel small. I will always stay lean no matter what, I hate cutting so I'll always stay very lean. That's a lot harder to accomplish while natural without shrinking.
Because we wanna believe what we're doing is 100% safe, side effect free.
I would be more inclined to believe recovery of natural production is due to individual genetics and length/doses of cycles used.
Only way I could see myself staying natural is if I can manage to pick up another hobby tbh. Focusing too much on training/bbing naturally isn't really solving anything...steroids aren't the problem, they're more of a solution.
good point right here, in fact best post of the entire thread.
, what does it mean when people say I have not been normal for 6 months, I am still waiting for an answers, how exactly do you know what you feel and what it is from and if it is not normal, what exactly is wrong for 6 months, details? what? do you guys get a head ache, can not sleep? bad temper, what? I seriously do not understand.
Maybe it is just psychological ??? I mean of course I do not feel good when I am not benching 500 pounds. lol :D
Yeah and I don't feel too great when I look worse than I do now ;D
But seriously, last time I came off all I felt was more tired than usual. Took some ec stack for energy and to minimize fat gain...that worked great. Creatine mono helped keeping a bit more water in the muscle too.
This is low dose use though, maybe that makes all the difference. :-\
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I've been off for about a month and don't plan on going back on. Truth is I don't even remember what it feels like to be natural ;D
Maybe guys have unrealistic expectations on how they'll feel natural but I'm not expecting a whole lot. And you can't base your entire existence based on the way you look, slowly start withering away, and expect to feel good. If you manage to get your hormone levels within normal range post steroid use and you feel like shit it has to be psychological...
comeon brother it hurts knowing you went off :-[
excellent point, of course one will feel bit bad about the body compostition changes when off, the test levels will indeed be ok soon, you pointed out well, no more pump from walking stairs, no more veins popping all the time etc will have psychological effect on the ones who care.
you will be back ;D
chances after coming off are often that one totaly loses interest in this whole lifestyle and never gets back to gym next few years or so,then comes the comeback :D
i not sure one ost you say you dont plan being natty other says you dont plan get on again? ???
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comeon brother it hurts knowing you went off :-[
excellent point, of course one will feel bit bad about the body compostition changes when off, the test levels will indeed be ok soon, you pointed out well, no more pump from walking stairs, no more veins popping all the time etc will have psychological effect on the ones who care.
you will be back ;D
chances after coming off are often that one totaly loses interest in this whole lifestyle and never gets back to gym next few years or so,then comes the comeback :D
i not sure one ost you say you dont plan being natty other says you dont plan get on again? ???
no argument there, lol :)
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comeon brother it hurts knowing you went off :-[
excellent point, of course one will feel bit bad about the body compostition changes when off, the test levels will indeed be ok soon, you pointed out well, no more pump from walking stairs, no more veins popping all the time etc will have psychological effect on the ones who care.
you will be back ;D
chances after coming off are often that one totaly loses interest in this whole lifestyle and never gets back to gym next few years or so,then comes the comeback :D
i not sure one ost you say you dont plan being natty other says you dont plan get on again? ???
You're right, I've just lost interest in the lifestyle and to keep using right now it would be pointless. And I meant that I won't be able to stay natural unless I find another hobby. If I keep the same effort/intensity in training naturally I'll just be disappointed and end up using again. This training naturally thing sucks anyway after using cause I've found you become so prone to injuries. Already I hurt my back racking the dumbbells after doing some stiff legged dead lifts ;D
The physique I'm willing to accept shouldn't take much effort anyway lol. Truth is I'll be happy as long as I don't get fat...we'll see come another month or two.
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Any time I come off, I try coming off looking good and lean. I also focus on cardio, cardio, cardio. You can't get big and lean while off, but you can get healthy no doubt!
I actually looked much better when I came off this time and I think it's from the cardio, legit cardio. Not bodybuilding-cardio. Being healthy overall really helped, IMO. I'm just shooting for the fake-natural look nowadays anyway. Under a gram doesn't count as using gear. 8)
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Any time I come off, I try coming off looking good and lean. I also focus on cardio, cardio, cardio. You can't get big and lean while off, but you can get healthy no doubt!
I actually looked much better when I came off this time and I think it's from the cardio, legit cardio. Not bodybuilding-cardio. Being healthy overall really helped, IMO. I'm just shooting for the fake-natural look nowadays anyway. Under a gram doesn't count as using gear. 8)
LOL
Yeah my plan was to be as lean as possible before coming off but lack of motivation and eq hunger didn't help in that regards. I'm also quite sick of eating so much dead animal after all these years, I feel as if my body could use a break. Already my hunger has "normalized" and I've been eating maybe one portion of protein a day. I did alright with girls prior to gear and that's all I really care about to be honest.