Getbig.com: American Bodybuilding, Fitness and Figure
Getbig Main Boards => Gossip & Opinions => Topic started by: HowieW on May 13, 2006, 01:17:22 PM
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Many feel that steroid is just a part of the bodybuilding game. Since all are doing it, nobody is cheating, etc. I ask the following questions then as food for thought:
1. If is NOT cheating how come the IFBB in both pro and amatuer rules pages has over 40 pages of rules that say these drugs are NOT allowed?
2. If is not cheating how come one can not freely admit their use in public?
If you have to sneak and lie about somehing, you most likely know it is wrong on some level or you would admit it. Hmmm, why do they think having an affair is considered CHEATING on your spouse?
3. Some contend that steroid and drug use is no more different than various rule changes. This logic is flawed, when a sport changes a rule it is open and everyone is on the same level. With drugs it is murky behind the scenes issue where some are in the loop on various levels.
4. Many in bodybuilding are so used to the drugs as the worst kept secret, we forget how many fans in other sports react when they find out. Barry Bonds is booed each time he comes to bat despite being a great hitter. He is on the verge of breaking a chersihed record yet few respect him or what he has done.
Wan bodybuilding to start gaining public recognition,? Get the drugs out first.
5. If the sport of bodybuilding can only survive with illegal drug use, is it wrth saving as is?
The only way for it NOT to be cheating is to change the current drug laws, be open and honest and then change the rules allowing all bodybuilders to use them on the pro and amatuer level.
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Howard, you seem like a nice guy. Certainly one with a strong sense of morality, and like Diogenes with his lantern looking for an honest man, you are going to be continually disappointed if you look for it in bodybuilding. You gotta stop doing this to yourself every month or so. Relax. Sit on the deck. Take the dogs for a run, etc.
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most involved in this "sport" have no problem with cheating, lying, stealing. fact of life
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IMO - The only guys who cheat are the ones who use steroids and enter "natural" competitions. The same goes for pisswads who post pictures of themselves online, or tell others (offline) they are natural when they are not.
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Many feel that steroid is just a part of the bodybuilding game. Since all are doing it, nobody is cheating, etc. I ask the following questions then as food for thought:
1. If is NOT cheating how come the IFBB in both pro and amatuer rules pages has over 40 pages of rules that say these drugs are NOT allowed?
2. If is not cheating how come one can not freely admit their use in public?
If you have to sneak and lie about somehing, you most likely know it is wrong on some level or you would admit it. Hmmm, why do they think having an affair is considered CHEATING on your spouse?
3. Some contend that steroid and drug use is no more different than various rule changes. This logic is flawed, when a sport changes a rule it is open and everyone is on the same level. With drugs it is murky behind the scenes issue where some are in the loop on various levels.
4. Many in bodybuilding are so used to the drugs as the worst kept secret, we forget how many fans in other sports react when they find out. Barry Bonds is booed each time he comes to bat despite being a great hitter. He is on the verge of breaking a chersihed record yet few respect him or what he has done.
Wan bodybuilding to start gaining public recognition,? Get the drugs out first.
5. If the sport of bodybuilding can only survive with illegal drug use, is it wrth saving as is?
The only way for it NOT to be cheating is to change the current drug laws, be open and honest and then change the rules allowing all bodybuilders to use them on the pro and amatuer level.
simple...its not cheating but its illegal...which it shouldn't be.
back in the day when pole vaulters changed over from bamboo poles to graphite ..ws that cheating..it ws highly unfair to the guys that held the previous records..whcih got smashed btw?
back in the day when the IOC changed the track to help runners break ben johnsons record ws that cheating?
back in the day when the US swim team ws the ONLY one with special body suits that cut down friction in the water..was that cheating? i mean at least anyone can use steroids the US team ws the ONLY one with such special squiptment
oh wait..all those things are exterior to the body..okie..well creatine is not cheating but steroids are? hmm so if it works kinda sorta its ok but if it really works its wrong..hmmm
i can go to the doctor and get test injections to reduce sperm count as a valid means to birth control yet i use the same stuff to build muscle and its immoral? ::) so using test so i can fuck girls and not get em prego is fine and dandy but how dare i use the same stuff to built muscle..
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most involved in this "sport" have no problem with cheating, lying, stealing. fact of life
you could say that about regular joe's too
E
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this is all deja vu, another sad howie posting
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Bodybuilding is not a sport.
Not to anyone who has yet to touch a weight.
But even they admit its the hardest sport. ::)
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IMO - The only guys who cheat are the ones who use steroids and enter "natural" competitions. The same goes for pisswads who post pictures of themselves online, or tell others (offline) they are natural when they are not.
See aliamini and his gang of terrorists
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IMagine the top Pros competing as naturals? I think they would still be impressive as hell, because they do have the best genes in the world....
Thats why they are the top bodybuilders, Levrone, Cutler, COleman, Dexter, Shawn Ray, you know the elite group..THey would still be the top guys...
Dont you guys think so?
Its just to "another level"
There are plenty of guys out there that work just as hard, IF NOT HARDER then the top pros..why dont they even get anywhere close to becoming a pro? You all know the answer, its not gear- its genetics.
If you have the genetics to be a world class top bodybuilder/top 5 olympia placer there is nothing wrong with it, jus tmake sure you have your blood tested/run checks to ensure your liver is healthy, etc.
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IMagine the top Pros competing as naturals? I think they would still be impressive as hell, because they do have the best genes in the world....
Thats why they are the top bodybuilders, Levrone, Cutler, COleman, Dexter, Shawn Ray, you know the elite group..THey would still be the top guys...
Dont you guys think so?
Its just to "another level"
There are plenty of guys out there that work just as hard, IF NOT HARDER then the top pros..why dont they even get anywhere close to becoming a pro? You all know the answer, its not gear- its genetics.
If you have the genetics to be a world class top bodybuilder/top 5 olympia placer there is nothing wrong with it, jus tmake sure you have your blood tested/run checks to ensure your liver is healthy, etc.
Herc..for some YES thats true..for some NO..
serioids are the great genetic equalizer...
my friend winston could be a pro...he came in dead last at the bodyrock last yr in the open and blew everyone away in the novice at yonnies show..
point..dude didn't diet..never diets...has a 6 pack..a back out of hell..detail galore..like a robbie robinson back..similar arms..weak legs n calves but fuckr still squats 6 plates at 200ish lbs...seen him double 405 in the incline..with the second rap coming up slightly uneven..so yes..people like that..he wont touch juice though..i keep urging him..
then there are the rich gasparis..dood woulda never been big if it wasn't for juice..or myself..i plan to compete next yr..
i started around 1 monthish ago..up from 150 to 175.....and i'm not even bothering to pay much attention to legs just yet..prolly compete at 200 next yr..we'll see..would i be able to do that without juice..f**k no..naturally i'd prolly be around 180 by next yr..
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Bodybuilding is not a sport.
Goatboy is not a non assclown ::)
E
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simple...its not cheating but its illegal...which it shouldn't be.
back in the day when pole vaulters changed over from bamboo poles to graphite ..ws that cheating..it ws highly unfair to the guys that held the previous records..whcih got smashed btw?
back in the day when the IOC changed the track to help runners break ben johnsons record ws that cheating?
back in the day when the US swim team ws the ONLY one with special body suits that cut down friction in the water..was that cheating? i mean at least anyone can use steroids the US team ws the ONLY one with such special squiptment
oh wait..all those things are exterior to the body..okie..well creatine is not cheating but steroids are? hmm so if it works kinda sorta its ok but if it really works its wrong..hmmm
i can go to the doctor and get test injections to reduce sperm count as a valid means to birth control yet i use the same stuff to build muscle and its immoral? ::) so using test so i can f**k girls and not get em prego is fine and dandy but how dare i use the same stuff to built muscle..
Hmmm, I understand what you are saying here but consider this:
1. Drug use /steroids is , in fact against the actual written rules of the IFBB (* check it out on the IFBB pro div site page, they have a 42 pg rulebook against them ). Breaking a rule to gain an adavatage in any sport is in fact cheating to win. ;)
2. Equipment or rules specific to an era was fair becuase it was OPEN and done by all. Drug use is done behind the scenes, and is the worst kept secret in this or any other sport now.
3. Drugs being illegal is the main cause of my concern. It requires a bodybuilder to use and risk breaking the law or lose and follow the rules and law. This leads to chaos and lack of any clear standard to gauge the success of an athlete in the sport.
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bodybuilding is about the freaks these days and it wud be dull without drugs so weather its cheating or not without drugs no one wud be interested in watching it
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steroids and bodybuilding go together like crack and ho
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Life isn't fair. There is more important things in life too worry about other than muscles. People, get over it and deal with it, it's only muscle.
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3. Drugs being illegal is the main cause of my concern. It requires a bodybuilder to use and risk breaking the law or lose and follow the rules and law. This leads to chaos and lack of any clear standard to gauge the success of an athlete in the sport.
It's not illegal in many (most) places in the world, and it's only been illegal in the US since 1991. And it's illegal for all the wrong reasons. Politicians wanted to seem tough, on what I don't know.
the IFBB has the rules on their books for political reasons only. they have no desire to have truley drug free bodybuilding.
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Well my point was that steroids dont matter. The top guys would STILL be the top guys in bodybuilding, even without steroids bc they have the BEST GENETICS in the world for building muscle and staying lean. Anyone else agree?
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Well my point was that steroids dont matter. The top guys would STILL be the top guys in bodybuilding, even without steroids bc they have the BEST GENETICS in the world for building muscle and staying lean. Anyone else agree?
Somewhat. However, many of the top guys have the best genetics for RESPONDING TO GEAR.
IN an all natural contest, skip la cour would slaughter jay cutler, period.
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Many feel that steroid is just a part of the bodybuilding game. Since all are doing it, nobody is cheating, etc. I ask the following questions then as food for thought:
1. If is NOT cheating how come the IFBB in both pro and amatuer rules pages has over 40 pages of rules that say these drugs are NOT allowed?
2. If is not cheating how come one can not freely admit their use in public?
If you have to sneak and lie about somehing, you most likely know it is wrong on some level or you would admit it. Hmmm, why do they think having an affair is considered CHEATING on your spouse?
3. Some contend that steroid and drug use is no more different than various rule changes. This logic is flawed, when a sport changes a rule it is open and everyone is on the same level. With drugs it is murky behind the scenes issue where some are in the loop on various levels.
4. Many in bodybuilding are so used to the drugs as the worst kept secret, we forget how many fans in other sports react when they find out. Barry Bonds is booed each time he comes to bat despite being a great hitter. He is on the verge of breaking a chersihed record yet few respect him or what he has done.
Wan bodybuilding to start gaining public recognition,? Get the drugs out first.
5. If the sport of bodybuilding can only survive with illegal drug use, is it wrth saving as is?
The only way for it NOT to be cheating is to change the current drug laws, be open and honest and then change the rules allowing all bodybuilders to use them on the pro and amatuer level.
1) to cover the ass. federal gov will come in and eliminate the industry. the ifbb will be no more. not to forget it is a crime and the law prohibit the use of most hormones with out a prescription. it is a felony in most cases and the head of the snake will be cut which means old men will have to do time in. it is hard to explain in few sentences and i will elaborate on it when "gh15 speaking is out". if and when that is!
the other 4 points will also be adressed. everything will be clear as said as it is with no bullshit including specific names. the moment any one no matter who try to mess with the date by sending bugs/viruses and sush this data will become national tv material up and ready for the murderer trial. so who ever need be warned! there is your warning.
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Somewhat. However, many of the top guys have the best genetics for RESPONDING TO GEAR.
IN an all natural contest, skip la cour would slaughter jay cutler, period.
And you really believe Skip LaCour is natural???
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And you really believe Skip LaCour is natural???
I do- if you've ever had a conversation with him, you see skip is one of the most intense people on the planet. He was the top natural in the world, and IMO, if he was going to use gear, he would have gone all out and been one of the top gear users.
there is no halfway for him. ALl things equal, he'd bury cutler. and I'm a cutler fan.
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I do- if you've ever had a conversation with him, you see skip is one of the most intense people on the planet. He was the top natural in the world, and IMO, if he was going to use gear, he would have gone all out and been one of the top gear users.
a guy in his early 20s with Skip's physique...I might give him the benefit of the doubt and believe he's natural
but a guy in his 40s?
in the pre steroid era, the top bodybuilders were all in their 20s. 35 was considered well past one's prime.
testosterone levels drop significantly as you get older. doesn't matter how hard you work out or how well you eat if you don't have the test
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I do- if you've ever had a conversation with him, you see skip is one of the most intense people on the planet. He was the top natural in the world, and IMO, if he was going to use gear, he would have gone all out and been one of the top gear users.
there is no halfway for him. ALl things equal, he'd bury cutler. and I'm a cutler fan.
Like you said--IYO. I agree with his intensity, but with the claims of being natural (and you can't test for GH), his conditioning looks beyond dieting and cardio. But whatever, the guy looked good when he competed. That's all that counts (natural/juiced) the day of the show.
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In pro bodybuilding, using steroids is not cheating because everyone does them. A sport like baseball where only 50% of the players use them, it is cheating because everyone does not use. That's why I always get a laugh when I look around the gym and someone thinks they're so "jacked" because they may be above guys who are natural, meanwhile when these clowns stop their cycle, they look like nothing. Especially when you look around and every other middle aged guy is on and looks no better than me, who takes nothing. It's a joke. Have a little heart and maybe half my dedication, you'd be amazed at what you can gain.
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Many feel that steroid is just a part of the bodybuilding game. Since all are doing it, nobody is cheating, etc. I ask the following questions then as food for thought:
1. If is NOT cheating how come the IFBB in both pro and amatuer rules pages has over 40 pages of rules that say these drugs are NOT allowed?
2. If is not cheating how come one can not freely admit their use in public?
If you have to sneak and lie about somehing, you most likely know it is wrong on some level or you would admit it. Hmmm, why do they think having an affair is considered CHEATING on your spouse?
3. Some contend that steroid and drug use is no more different than various rule changes. This logic is flawed, when a sport changes a rule it is open and everyone is on the same level. With drugs it is murky behind the scenes issue where some are in the loop on various levels.
4. Many in bodybuilding are so used to the drugs as the worst kept secret, we forget how many fans in other sports react when they find out. Barry Bonds is booed each time he comes to bat despite being a great hitter. He is on the verge of breaking a chersihed record yet few respect him or what he has done.
Wan bodybuilding to start gaining public recognition,? Get the drugs out first.
5. If the sport of bodybuilding can only survive with illegal drug use, is it wrth saving as is?
The only way for it NOT to be cheating is to change the current drug laws, be open and honest and then change the rules allowing all bodybuilders to use them on the pro and amatuer level.
Smoke a joint and chill man.
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The debate about whether steroid use is cheating is very old. Steroids gained a bad reputation when the very dirty big secret was revealed in the National Football League and the Olympics a long time ago. Steroid use also came under intense scrutiny when Ben Johnson got caught and when people started these rumors about Florence Griffith-Joyner that were unproven. The media tried to ask the governor of California some revealing questions way back when he broke into Hollywood after 1980. I don't have to waste time and mention the controversial issues and the problems that steroid use has caused in the Major Leagues.
I don't believe steroid use is cheating in professional bodybuilding because the whole concept is about building as much muscle as you can to present a better physique than your opponents on stage. The same goes for professional wrestlers because they are in a industry that quietly promotes steroid use and that is obvious since they have bodies that are similar to powerlifters, football players, and also some bodybuilders.
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Howard, you seem like a nice guy. Certainly one with a strong sense of morality, and like Diogenes with his lantern looking for an honest man, you are going to be continually disappointed if you look for it in bodybuilding. You gotta stop doing this to yourself every month or so. Relax. Sit on the deck. Take the dogs for a run, etc.
Well put. And I've said it before... Howie, are you able to start a thread in under 4 paragraphs?
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I don't believe steroid use is cheating in professional bodybuilding because the whole concept is about building as much muscle as you can to present a better physique than your opponents on stage. The same goes for professional wrestlers because they are in a industry that quietly promotes steroid use and that is obvious since they have bodies that are similar to powerlifters, football players, and also some bodybuilders.
Probably the best retort I've read in regards to steroids and cheating in the field of bodybuilding, bravo!
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Probably the best retort I've read in regards to steroids and cheating in the field of bodybuilding, bravo!
A couple problems with this however:
1. In this country to use roids and related drugs is for the most part, ILLEGAL. However since the use is so common one must use to compete on the same level . Thus, one is REQUIRED to break the law to compete and stand a chance of winning.
::)How can a sport REQUIRE its athletes to BREAK the federal drug laws to compete?????
2. There is a 40 plus page section on the IFBB site that states it is against the rules.
If they want the rule on the books they need to enforce it. Or, they can simply state they have no drug policy and openly allow it. Anything other than this is inconsistant and unethical. Think that is no big deal? Ask scape goats like Shawn Ray, Nasser and Jay (Jay beat the charges in court) about how the IFBB uses the "random " drug test to nail certain pros for whatever reason and PR. Look the negative press Barry Bonds now gets and then tell me roids are no big deal and help bodybuilding as a sport????????
The sport has such a drug stigma now, it is ruined in terms of TV contracts which is the big $$$$...unless they take drastic steps to change of course.
I would advise some here to look at how others outside of bodybuilding think of roid use and then you can understand the issue.Bodybuilding does not operate in a vacuum.
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Well my point was that steroids dont matter. The top guys would STILL be the top guys in bodybuilding, even without steroids bc they have the BEST GENETICS in the world for building muscle and staying lean. Anyone else agree?
Disagree
Your argument assumes that there aren't guys out there with amazing genetics who don't compete because of the crazy amount of drugs one has to take.
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Is steriod use cheating? Is it illegal? Is it unethical?
Yes. Yes. Depends.
BB is not a sport...it's an "underground" cultish physique contest that has evolved decade over decade and will continue to evolve in the years to come. It will never gain mainstream coverage due to its cult status...it's always had a cult status because most people think it's ridiculous; hence, it maintains a small cultish following...always has and always will. The idea that it will be included in the Olympics is ridiculous...the only thing bb will ever share with the Olympics is the "Olympi" in Mr. Olympia.
Unfortunately, in order to maintain even the small cult following in bb the illegal drugs are necessity in order to keep fan attention. After you've seen 300lb ripped physiques everything smaller and more aesthetic kinda falls flat....and even the smaller aesthetic physiques require the drugs to build and maintain. From Zane to Coleman they all used and bbs will continue to use. Make steriods completely inaccessible and bb will quickly die and become a mere memory.
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Two things to point out;
1) Steroids and other Enhancement drugs are not ilegal everywhere in the world, there are plenty of countries where you can walk into a pharmacy and purchase anything and everything. It's all because of professional sports (which I think is a joke) and the United States' obsession with it.
2) I look at professional competitive bodybuilding like a beauty pageant (Ms.America for instance) just without the talent part (and the hot girls) that's basically what it boils down to, people on stage comparing their physiques.
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And you really believe Skip LaCour is natural???
I doubt it King.
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1) to cover the ass. federal gov will come in and eliminate the industry. the ifbb will be no more. not to forget it is a crime and the law prohibit the use of most hormones with out a prescription. it is a felony in most cases and the head of the snake will be cut which means old men will have to do time in. it is hard to explain in few sentences and i will elaborate on it when "gh15 speaking is out". if and when that is!
the other 4 points will also be adressed. everything will be clear as said as it is with no bullshit including specific names. the moment any one no matter who try to mess with the date by sending bugs/viruses and sush this data will become national tv material up and ready for the murderer trial. so who ever need be warned! there is your warning.
GH15, this post makes me a bit curious... What do you mean by "mess with the date by sending bugs/viruses and sush"? Can you explain what you meant in the 2nd paragraph a bit more? Thanks.
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Actually I don't steroid use is cheating either in competitive BB. Since everyone does it how can it be cheating. Cheating is when you do something to gain an advantage that is not allowed and not done by others. Steroids are accepted in the NPC and IFBB. So it can't be cheating just like wearing a suit in a powerlifting meet is not cheating. In real life it is cheating since these guys could NOT achieve what they have without the use of roids and GH, but in the life they chose they are fine.
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I do- if you've ever had a conversation with him, you see skip is one of the most intense people on the planet. He was the top natural in the world, and IMO, if he was going to use gear, he would have gone all out and been one of the top gear users.
there is no halfway for him. ALl things equal, he'd bury cutler. and I'm a cutler fan.
"In your opinion"..that's all it is... because he's and intense guy it solidifies that he never touched any pharmaceuticals..lololol ..Christ..I'll go with you on the androgen's and the anabolics but if you think he never touched clen, GH or Slin you really are a momo....and you know Skip would bury Cutler if they both were completely natural their whole life? how do you know this? ohhh you must have had a conversation with Jay and he must have been really "not-intense" on the phone.... and you are such a Cutler fan and wanted him to post on this board that you show it by showing a close up of his shoulder on another thread and title it "Needlin around with Jay Cutler"... ::)
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I only think it's cheating (just cause i wouldn't risk it) when somone takes it to the point that they almost die or do die, now not to say it in a joking way but it's not fair when somone is willing to risk death in order to look the best cause they are crazy and that means you must be just as crazy to be the best and i don't think that should be.
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I believe Skip has slimmed down some for modeling and consulting. He still retains his unreal conditioning and more size than the average mortal. Most ppl on gear lose that conditioning fairly quick when they go OFF, don't they? www.skiplacour.com
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Actually I don't steroid use is cheating either in competitive BB. Since everyone does it how can it be cheating. Cheating is when you do something to gain an advantage that is not allowed and not done by others. Steroids are accepted in the NPC and IFBB. So it can't be cheating just like wearing a suit in a powerlifting meet is not cheating. In real life it is cheating since these guys could NOT achieve what they have without the use of roids and GH, but in the life they chose they are fine.
Only me, I would agree with you on this BUT, one key issue is at stake here, the LEGAL issue as it is exists now in the USA where most of the biggest show take place.
My main conern is that to compete on a level playing field, as a high level bodybuilder , one is required to break the law? true?
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There are so many factors involved in that i.e. the genetic make up of the individual, the compounds used etc. it's an impossible question to answer with any real degree of certainty. The people you are referring to are the idiot lat syndrome imaginary suit case carrying douches you see in the gym. They go on a gram or two of test, throw in some Anadrol a little deca for 12 weeks and think they actually accumulated real muscle. They come off and drop 25lbs of water and look like the same bag of crap as they did before hand. These are also the same guys that have no idea what it's really like to diet year round and train balls to the wall year round. So here is Skip. The guys diet and training is perfect and he's been dedicated to it for years. When you throw in clen and GH etc. you're not going to have these dramatic changes in your physique and what you gain has way more of a chance of being quality muscle than being a bloated pig for two months. So to answer you question yes and no. IMO I'm sorry but you are only natural if you have never touched any of these things. I firmly believe he has had his share of GH and Clen. Am I baggin on him for this? No. Total respect for the guy. What he has done and the way he has done it will keep his physique looking the same for a long time. Perfect example..Branch Warren. I've seen him in his "off/bridge" time and he doesn't look like the same guy. trust me.
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There are so many factors involved in that i.e. the genetic make up of the individual, the compounds used etc. it's an impossible question to answer with any real degree of certainty. The people you are referring to are the idiot lat syndrome imaginary suit case carrying douches you see in the gym. They go on a gram or two of test, throw in some Anadrol a little deca for 12 weeks and think they actually accumulated real muscle. They come off and drop 25lbs of water and look like the same bag of crap as they did before hand. These are also the same guys that have no idea what it's really like to diet year round and train balls to the wall year round. So here is Skip. The guys diet and training is perfect and he's been dedicated to it for years. When you throw in clen and GH etc. you're not going to have these dramatic changes in your physique and what you gain has way more of a chance of being quality muscle than being a bloated pig for two months. So to answer you question yes and no. IMO I'm sorry but you are only natural if you have never touched any of these things. I firmly believe he has had his share of GH and Clen. Am I baggin on him for this? No. Total respect for the guy. What he has done and the way he has done it will keep his physique looking the same for a long time. Perfect example..Branch Warren. I've seen him in his "off/bridge" time and he doesn't look like the same guy. trust me.
Great post here. I agree and in Skip's case after all the drug tests he has passed over the years, it is clear that the vast majority (if not all ) of Skip's physique is the result of great genetics and hard training.
Howard
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Great post here. I agree and in Skip's case after all the drug tests he has passed over the years, it is clear that the vast majority (if not all ) of Skip's physique is the result of great genetics and hard training.
Howard
What are your thoughts on bonds? he has never failed a test either ???
I am a bonds fan by the way ;D
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Is steriod use cheating? Is it illegal? Is it unethical?
Yes. Yes. Depends.
BB is not a sport...it's an "underground" cultish physique contest that has evolved decade over decade and will continue to evolve in the years to come. It will never gain mainstream coverage due to its cult status...it's always had a cult status because most people think it's ridiculous; hence, it maintains a small cultish following...always has and always will. The idea that it will be included in the Olympics is ridiculous...the only thing bb will ever share with the Olympics is the "Olympi" in Mr. Olympia.
Unfortunately, in order to maintain even the small cult following in bb the illegal drugs are necessity in order to keep fan attention. After you've seen 300lb ripped physiques everything smaller and more aesthetic kinda falls flat....and even the smaller aesthetic physiques require the drugs to build and maintain. From Zane to Coleman they all used and bbs will continue to use. Make steriods completely inaccessible and bb will quickly die and become a mere memory.
...man there's some GREAT points in this paragraph....on a pretty much bashed question. I'm so tired of it, but this paragraph states the rock bottom truths.
The fact that even when the 'sport' was at it's aesthetic highpoint, drugs were still and issue. There ya go.
As far as Skip and his natural ilk, who gives a crap. He can't prove it, I don't care.
BUT...this previous weekend I met a dude who claimed he was natural his whole training life (some 19 years training) and he looked AMAZING....no bloat, tight midsection, good lines....and walked away with 1st in his class (light middleweight!) AND the overall!...it was a provincial show, no drug tests. If it's true, that dude just smacked the best the province could shell out, drugs and all, weighing UNDER 175!..pretty good for an amateur. So I have new faith!
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What are your thoughts on bonds? he has never failed a test either ???
I am a bonds fan by the way ;D
On 1st off Bonds did admit he may have used some kind of drugs but "was not aware of it" , he was not tsted for roids in much of his time playing baseball . Plus unlike Skip, Barry made incredible gains AFTER he was a full grown successful athlete. 90% of Bonds success is all Barry the last 10 %??????
Plus he has already been tried and found guilty by the sports media and fans outside of San Fran, thus he has bigger problems than this board LOL.
The senate comm. will have the last say anyway .
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7 time MVP and numerous records................. . steroids don't give you that, that's all skill and hard work 8)
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7 time MVP and numerous records................. . steroids don't give you that, that's all skill and hard work 8)
No question Barry Bonds has an incredible record, even if he never broke any HR records he would still be a hall of famer. Sadly he will be more remembered for the juice scandel and never should have gone down that road.
Plus with the scadel the Coperstown is in jeopordy
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No question Barry Bonds has an incredible record, even if he never broke any HR records he would still be a hall of famer. Sadly he will be more remembered for the juice scandel and never should have gone down that road.
Plus with the scadel the Coperstown is in jeopordy
Well i stick by him no matter what :) He has always been one of my favorite baseball players and i won't be one of those who remembers him for the shit that has happened off the field.
Same with Cormier :)
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Many feel that steroid is just a part of the bodybuilding game. Since all are doing it, nobody is cheating, etc. I ask the following questions then as food for thought:
1. If is NOT cheating how come the IFBB in both pro and amatuer rules pages has over 40 pages of rules that say these drugs are NOT allowed?
2. If is not cheating how come one can not freely admit their use in public?
If you have to sneak and lie about somehing, you most likely know it is wrong on some level or you would admit it. Hmmm, why do they think having an affair is considered CHEATING on your spouse?
3. Some contend that steroid and drug use is no more different than various rule changes. This logic is flawed, when a sport changes a rule it is open and everyone is on the same level. With drugs it is murky behind the scenes issue where some are in the loop on various levels.
4. Many in bodybuilding are so used to the drugs as the worst kept secret, we forget how many fans in other sports react when they find out. Barry Bonds is booed each time he comes to bat despite being a great hitter. He is on the verge of breaking a chersihed record yet few respect him or what he has done.
Wan bodybuilding to start gaining public recognition,? Get the drugs out first.
5. If the sport of bodybuilding can only survive with illegal drug use, is it wrth saving as is?
The only way for it NOT to be cheating is to change the current drug laws, be open and honest and then change the rules allowing all bodybuilders to use them on the pro and amatuer level.
No.
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No.
Hahah..racking up the posts huh ?
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Hahah..racking up the posts huh ?
I try to keep them short and sweet ;D
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Well i stick by him no matter what :) He has always been one of my favorite baseball players and i won't be one of those who remembers him for the shit that has happened off the field.
Same with Cormier :)
As a player on the field Bonds is GREAT, but with the fans and media he is considered by many to be a zero in that dept. no big deal, but that is the perception, his fault, or not...?
The bottom line is, his situation pretty proves that if you or your sport gets assoc with juice , it is NOT good.
Howard
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Hmmm, I understand what you are saying here but consider this:
actual written rules of the IFBB (* check it out on the IFBB
ONLY cause they r ilegal...you really think they'd be in the rule book if they were legal..
the IFBB has got to show an innocent face to the masses
Equipment or rules specific to an era was fair becuase it was OPEN and done by all. Drug use is done behind the scenes, and is the worst kept secret in this or any other sport now.
only a secret cause its illegal..no one wants to go to jail or spend $ on lawyers
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Hey guys, just got through pinning my glute with a test/deca mix, so what's going on here? ;D
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btw..so if i dont compete but use em to get big and gain attention..is it ok then?
is makeup use ok by women?
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ONLY cause they r ilegal...you really think they'd be in the rule book if they were legal..
the IFBB has got to show an innocent face to the masses
only a secret cause its illegal..no one wants to go to jail or spend $ on lawyers
SINCE IT IS ILLEGAL, IT HAS TO BE BANNED IF THE SPORT WANTS TO BE LEGIT...DAOH!
Oh well, to each his own, I just hope some take the life boat of sanity before the SS modern freakboat goes down for the last time , nighty nite :o
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sINCE IT IS ILLEGAL, IT HAS TO BE BANNED IF THE SPORT WANTS TO BE LEGIT...DAOH!
It will only be banned with a wink ;)
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SINCE IT IS ILLEGAL, IT HAS TO BE BANNED IF THE SPORT WANTS TO BE LEGIT...DAOH!
Oh well, to each his own, I just hope some take the life boat of sanity before the SS modern freakboat goes down for the last time , nighty nite :o
in saudia arabia alcohol is illegal..you can go to jail for it...
ilegal does not make it morally wrong..it just states the status quo..
Howie Bro..dood..chill man chill..i aint trying to aggrivate ya..illegal dose not necessarily mean immoral man..
thats all..
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in saudia arabia alcohol is illegal..you can go to jail for it...
ilegal does not make it morally wrong..it just states the status quo..
Howie Bro..dood..chill man chill..i aint trying to aggrivate ya..illegal dose not necessarily mean immoral man..
thats all..
I was in Saudi, although alcohol is illegal, they drink all the time. Kinda like how weed is illegal here yet millions still smoke it.
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I was in Saudi, although alcohol is illegal, they drink all the time. Kinda like how weed is illegal here yet millions still smoke it.
What is the penalty if you get caught with it?
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I was in Saudi, although alcohol is illegal, they drink all the time. Kinda like how weed is illegal here yet millions still smoke it.
in amereeka steroids are ilegal..but athletes juice all he time
your point?
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What is the penalty if you get caught with it?
fuck if i know :-\
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juarez mexico just down the street for me it will soon be legal to smoke weed on the street 8)
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f**k if i know :-\
They also engage in a lot of homosexual sex in those countries, but you better not get caught ;D
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They also engage in a lot of homosexual sex in those countries, but you better not get caught ;D
i give you an A for post whoring
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What is the penalty if you get caught with it?
Depends on whether you are Saudi or not. If Saudi, not much if anything. Anyone else and it's going to be some jail time. You have to understand the society; the Saudi's are elite, more so than any other society I've even seen. They have public executions where they cut the head off of people almost every single week, and never (to my knowledge) is it a Saudi. They also cut hands off too for things like stealing. Brutal. A lot of my brothers(Marines) went and said it was insane, I tried to go but our commander caught wind of it and nixed it. They call it "chop chop square".
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STEROIDS BREAKFEST OF CHAMPIONS IN ALL SPORTS AND AN EVERYDAY LIFE THE ONES WHO USE WILL LOVE THERE LIFE THE ONES WHO DONT WILL TALK SHIT AND WISH THEY HAD THE SAME BODY AND BELIEVE THEY WILL ACHIVE IT JUST TAKES A LIL LONGER LMFAOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO
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Depends on whether you are Saudi or not. If Saudi, not much if anything. Anyone else and it's going to be some jail time. You have to understand the society; the Saudi's are elite, more so than any other society I've even seen. They have public executions where they cut the head off of people almost every single week, and never (to my knowledge) is it a Saudi. They also cut hands off too for things like stealing. Brutal.
Do they mostly execute citizens of nearby countries? I have heard about some of their practices. Very creepy :-\
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Depends on whether you are Saudi or not. If Saudi, not much if anything. Anyone else and it's going to be some jail time. You have to understand the society; the Saudi's are elite, more so than any other society I've even seen. They have public executions where they cut the head off of people almost every single week, and never (to my knowledge) is it a Saudi. They also cut hands off too for things like stealing. Brutal. A lot of my brothers(Marines) wentand said it was insaine, I tried to go but our commander caught wind of it and nixed it. They call it "chop chop square".
if ya kill someone = chop of head
if ya steal = chop off hand
rape = stoning (completely agree with this one)
the head chopping off IF done real quick is actually VERY non brutal
to feel pain..inpulse needs to travel from effected area..to brain..back to area..(mesinian corpusle)<sp?>
..chop if head quick.. = no pain
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if ya kill someone = chop of head
if ya steal = chop off hand
rape = stoning (completely agree with this one)
the head chopping off IF done real quick is actually VERY non brutal
to feel pain..inpulse needs to travel from effected area..to brain..back to area..(mesinian corpusle)<sp?>
..chop if head quick.. = no pain
It may not be brutal, but it's pretty damn savage :-\
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Do they mostly execute citizens of nearby countries? I have heard about some of their practices. Very creepy :-\
Yes, it is the citizens of the other countries that do all the work too. Bus drivers, shop owners, you name it...even their military we met were foreigners. All the working class is imported. Granted, this is what I saw, maybe there are working class Saudi's but I never saw any in the month and a half I was there.
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Yes, it is the citizens of the other countries that do all the work too. Bus drivers, shop owners, you name it...even their military we met were foreigners. All the working class is imported. Granted, this is what I saw, maybe there are working class Saudi's but I never saw any in the month and a half I was there.
All that oil wealth has twisted the society like the dark side of the force :o
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if ya kill someone = chop of head
if ya steal = chop off hand
rape = stoning (completely agree with this one)
the head chopping off IF done real quick is actually VERY non brutal
to feel pain..inpulse needs to travel from effected area..to brain..back to area..(mesinian corpusle)<sp?>
..chop if head quick.. = no pain
From what I heard (from what the others saw), they guys who were getting their heads chopped off were very weak as if they were drugged, or had blood drained. There was no way they were going to put up a fight.
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All that oil wealth has twisted the society like the dark side of the force :o
Yep, A lot don't even have to work. The trillions they make of oil is plenty for them all to live like royalty.
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It may not be brutal, but it's pretty damn savage :-\
oh yeah its savage..
but so is electrucuting someone..most so..
beaheading looks savage = deterent
electrocution = zapping EVERY damn pain receptor in your body..takes a LONG time to die
beaheading ..you die quick..(unless done slowly..Iraqi taliban style)
btw ..most of the low class in saudi is pakistani immigrants..
another side note..my mum ws once buying jewelery in saudi..when it ws prayer time..the shop owner just up n left..left the jewellery sitting right there on the country..told mum he'd be back and in the meantime she could try on anything she wanted ..
brutality WORKS..i'm for it...
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From what I heard (from what the others saw), they guys who were getting their heads chopped off were very weak as if they were drugged, or had blood drained. There was no way they were going to put up a fight.
they do it out in public to deter crime though..my uncle saw one once..he told me he still sometimes has bad dreams about it..
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Yep, A lot don't even have to work. The trillions they make of oil is plenty for them all to live like royalty.
With all that free time, I'm surprised more don't post here ;D
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With all that free time, I'm surprised more don't post here ;D
haha. Honestly though, they despise our culture for the most part.
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I don't know how this turned into a Saudi thread, but I just saw Syrianna yestarday, one of the funniest lines I've ever heard in my entire life; " You want to know what the business world thinks of you? We think a hundred years ago you were living out here in tents in the desert chopping each others heads off, and that's exactly where you're gonna be in another hundred. So yes, on behalf of my firm, I accept your money. "
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I don't know how this turned into a Saudi thread, but I just saw Syrianna yestarday, one of the funniest lines I've ever heard in my entire life; " You want to know what the business world thinks of you? We think a hundred years ago you were living out here in tents in the desert chopping each others heads off, and that's exactly where you're gonna be in another hundred. So yes, on behalf of my firm, I accept your money. "
Matt Damon is an awesome actor! He was hilarious on Will and Grace :D
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Ok sorry but one more thing. When an infidel goes to chop-chop square, they push you to the front of the line. From what I was told, they do this because it guarantees you will be going to hell. Can't confirm that, but they do push you to the front. Also, after the chopping is done, a bunch of sick fucks run up and start playing in the blood, rubbing it on themselves and shit. Freaked my bro's out big time when they saw that madness.
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they do it out in public to deter crime though..my uncle saw one once..he told me he still sometimes has bad dreams about it..
Is it worth it?
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Ok sorry but one more thing. When an infidel goes to chop-chop square, they push you to the front of the line. From what I was told, they do this because it guarantees you will be going to hell. Can't confirm that, but they do push you to the front. Also, after the chopping is done, a bunch of sick fucks run up and start playing in the blood, rubbing it on themselves and shit. Freaked my bro's out big time when they saw that madness.
lol i grew up in a muslim family
i'm an athiest ( one of em scientific hippie fucks so to say) but...strictly speaking accroding to the religion
1) supposed to get it done with as QUICK as possible...
2) supposed to dispose of body (bury) immediately
playing in the damn blood..ignorant girls if they do that..taking pleasure in anothers pain is supposed to be a sin
PS...in the same way..what my family would say..them suicide bombers in palestine/israel...well what ever side is jewish (i dont really keep track..sorry)then muslim suicude bombers..what my dad would say those 'supposed' muslims will burn in hell for
1) killing the innocent
2) commiting suicide
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Is it worth it?
hmm maybe we should ask the 15 yr old girl that just got raped in the Us
i'm sure we could find plenty...
would you rape someone even if you were a sick f**k after you saw a rapist getting stoned to death?
i wouldn't
..if someone raped my sister..i would not only wanna stone em to death..i'd wanna think up worse possible punishments than stonings..and i'd enjoy it..
if ya believe othrwise..take a second ..and picture a big bald redfaced dude fucking your mom ..while she struggles against her will
EXACTLY
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..if someone raped my sister..i would not only wanna stone em to death..i'd wanna think up worse possible punishments than stonings..and i'd enjoy it..
Gotta make it last a few days at least ;) I would.
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hmm maybe we should ask the 15 yr old girl that just got raped in the Us
i'm sure we could find plenty...
would you rape someone even if you were a sick f**k after you saw a rapist getting stoned to death?
i wouldn't
..if someone raped my sister..i would not only wanna stone em to death..i'd wanna think up worse possible punishments than stonings..and i'd enjoy it..
if ya believe othrwise..take a second ..and picture a big bald redfaced dude fucking your mom ..while she struggles against her will
EXACTLY
But that girl would also have to live in a society that didn't value her life much.
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lol i grew up in a muslim family
i'm an athiest ( one of em scientific hippie fucks so to say) but...strictly speaking accroding to the religion
1) supposed to get it done with as QUICK as possible...
2) supposed to dispose of body (bury) immediately
playing in the damn blood..ignorant girls if they do that..taking pleasure in anothers pain is supposed to be a sin
PS...in the same way..what my family would say..them suicide bombers in palestine/israel...well what ever side is jewish (i dont really keep track..sorry)then muslim suicude bombers..what my dad would say those 'supposed' muslims will burn in hell for
1) killing the innocent
2) commiting suicide
Good to hear that, what you dad says about the Suicide Bombers. (Israel BTW).
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Only me, I would agree with you on this BUT, one key issue is at stake here, the LEGAL issue as it is exists now in the USA where most of the biggest show take place.
My main conern is that to compete on a level playing field, as a high level bodybuilder , one is required to break the law? true?
True. The thing is just like in my sport, I did not take roids till after an event I was in Ric Zumwalt told me I was the strongest guy he has ever met. I was beating guys right and left. He asked me what I was on, I said what do you mean. He sadi steroids what do you take. I said nothing. He said no way. You got to get on them cause if you do you would be unbeatable. He said every single armwrestler in the pros takes steroids. EVERYONE. So I did.
The thing is if one person takes them, then everyone has to in order to keep the paying field level or the guy that is taking them will dominate forever. In the case of BB I think, it is what they take, how much take and what they can afford to take. And genetics plays an important part of it for how your body reacts to them. Each person might take the exact stuff in the exact same dosage with different results. This where trial and era is used. You see what and how much of whatever will work best for you and your body.
As with Bonds. I had my cusin whoplayed with the Reds and a few other teams on Anadrol way back in the early 80's. He gained 30 lbs. between seasons. He came back to spring heavier and stronger. He already had an excellent eye and now the strength to punch the ball out.
Steroids will not make you a better player if you are not already exceptional. Steroids DOES NOT help you hit the ball. They do not improve your eyesight, or timing or natural talent to read a ball. What they will do is give you the strength and in some cases the speed, that when you do connect with the bat your hands are tighter and your spped of the bat may be faster and the follow through of the bat is staedy and hard. Which mean when you hit the ball it will go farther. But it will not make your skills any better. Your genes and hard work is what makes a ball player.
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Howie, I've read this thread & I've seen you put up two or three times about the IFBB rules against steroids. They have to have rules against them. The big contests are in the US where they're illegal. I haven't read their rules (nor do I plan to) but is there anything on the enforcement of them? I think Cutler failed a durietics test but then threatened to sue so the IFBB backed down.
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imagine if the IFBB Bans all type of steroids, and Every pro would be as clean as Natural...ha, ha, ha ;D ;D that would be the day
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Howie, I've read this thread & I've seen you put up two or three times about the IFBB rules against steroids. They have to have rules against them. The big contests are in the US where they're illegal. I haven't read their rules (nor do I plan to) but is there anything on the enforcement of them? I think Cutler failed a durietics test but then threatened to sue so the IFBB backed down.
The IFBB's drug testing lacks legitimacy even in their eyes.
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The IFBB's drug testing lacks legitimacy even in their eyes.
...what drug test?
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...what drug test?
The 2001 Olympia. You just mentioned it ;D
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Howie, I've read this thread & I've seen you put up two or three times about the IFBB rules against steroids. They have to have rules against them. The big contests are in the US where they're illegal. I haven't read their rules (nor do I plan to) but is there anything on the enforcement of them? I think Cutler failed a durietics test but then threatened to sue so the IFBB backed down.
Look all I really want is everyone to be open and follow the actual rules, if they want drugs I say let them do it...but what a minute, hmmmmm ,damn, they are ILLEGAL so we can all grin and nod and if some pro gets busted well it is THEIR fault??? Great policy, .....NOT!
This is why the IFBB had to let Jay off, sure they gave some lame cover about IOC lab standards, but I think they knew they could not defend their "drug policy" in open court in front of an objective judge.
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Look all I really want is everyone to be open and follow the actual rules, if they want drugs I say let them do it...but what a minute, hmmmmm ,damn, they are ILLEGAL so we can all grin and nod and if some pro gets busted well it is THEIR fault??? Great policy, .....NOT!
This is why the IFBB had to let Jay off, sure they gave some lame cover about IOC lab standards, but I think they knew they could not defend their "drug policy" in open court in front of an objective judge.
if bb drugs were eliminated (or made inaccessible) the contests would discontinue due to zero interest....as it stands bb followers are nothing more than a small cult most of which come to see the freaks. Remove drugs - or the inability to produce "a freak" - and all we'd have left were a few above average gym physiques (and those are a dime a dozen)....the rules are merely a smokescreen that are dusted off and enforced when "bb outsiders" start sniffin around and askin questions. It sounds bad, but "enforcing the rules" destroys bb....the drug rules aren't meant to promote ethics or standards within bb......improved drugs and new science coupled with superior competitor genetics receptive to the drugs dicatate that standard decade after decade. Removing drugs and simultaneously "leveling the playing field" only further limits the interest in bb competitions.....if nobody has interest, nobody pays money to watch, competitors make no money, promoters make no money and bb incentive in general dies.....then all you have left are a tiny % percent of the population that pay their drug bills completely outta pocket so they can get their personal "swole on" and go work as bouncers in titty bars and get the occassional knob-job from skanky poledancers...that's it.
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I think they should just limit the amount of drugs allowed and the doses so that everybody is on a level playing field. Plus they should be the ones paying for them and for a regular doctors check up. Bodybuilders go through too much shit for no reason.
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I think they should just limit the amount of drugs allowed and the doses so that everybody is on a level playing field. Plus they should be the ones paying for them and for a regular doctors check up. Bodybuilders go through too much shit for no reason.
BB is a freak show and with each passing decade that level of freakiness increases.....we (the cultish fans) grow increasingly desensitized to even a physique like Lee Haney's (8-time Mr O) when compared to today's lineups....it was awesome then but merely average now. Why is that? Why does bb have the biggest audience in the history of it existence today? Simple, because of improved communication via the internet and most importantly the science and drugs that have improved and the genetically superior competitors that respond amazingly to them. Take any bbs from the past, stick them into today's level of science and drugs and they'd make themselves as fuckin freaky as possible like every other competitor today. They did what it takes back then and they'd do the same today just on a greater, more advanced scale. Leveling the playing would only dull what we've come to expect in a competitor line-up....the majority of the cultish bb fans would lose interest and the even smaller population of bb enthusiasts within that group that would support a limited drug regimen and leveled playing field would not be able to sustain bb interest in general...the sport would begin it's inevitable and quick decay.
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BB is a freak show and with each passing decade that level of freakiness increases.....we (the cultish fans) grow increasingly desensitized to even a physique like Lee Haney's (8-time Mr O) when compared to today's lineups....it was awesome then but merely average now. Why is that? Why does bb have the biggest audience in the history of it existence today? Simple, because of improved communication via the internet and most importantly the science and drugs that have improved and the genetically superior competitors that respond amazingly to them. Take any bbs from the past, stick them into today's level of science and drugs and they'd make themselves as fuckin freaky as possible like every other competitor today. They did what it takes back then and they'd do the same today just on a greater, more advanced scale. Leveling the playing would only dull what we've come to expect in a competitor line-up....the majority of the cultish bb fans would lose interest and the even smaller population of bb enthusiasts within that group that would support a limited drug regimen and leveled playing field would not be able to sustain bb interest in general...the sport would begin it's inevitable and quick decay.
SHUT UP! Lee Haney was far beyond average. He even makes Ronnie look average!
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SHUT UP! Lee Haney was far beyond average. He even makes Ronnie look average you dumb f*ck!
Attempting to draw me into a stupid noob arguement is pointless, but I'd be happy to expand my previous statement to help you understand.
I said that Haney was great in his day, but that same physique would simply be average in today's lineup....sorry, but it's true. He'd break into the top 10 at the O and make every posedown at the other shows, but breakin the top 10 in the O and makin the posedowns in the smaller shows is what the average or slightly above average pro physique does....come Olympia time the top 5 outclass a prime Haney....he'd have to step it up just to keep up, but by doing so he'd become an instant threat given today's science and drugs that weren't available in the 80's and early 90's.
There's no one past or present that makes Ronnie look average....your statement is idiotic. I've seen every comparison photo between Ronnie, Yates, Arnold, Levrone, Wheeler, etc.....no one makes Ronnie look average; in fact, it's Ronnie who makes everyone else look average.
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Attempting to draw me into a stupid noob arguement is pointless, but I'd be happy to expand my previous statement to help you understand.
I said that Haney was great in his day, but that same physique would simply be average in today's lineup....sorry, but it's true. He'd break into the top 10 at the O and make every posedown at the other shows, but breakin the top 10 in the O and makin the posedowns in the smaller shows is what the average or slightly above average pro physique does....come Olympia time the top 5 outclass a prime Haney....he'd have to step it up just to keep up, but by doing so he'd become an instant threat given today's science and drugs that weren't available in the 80's and early 90's.
There's no one past or present that makes Ronnie look average....your statement is idiotic. I've seen every comparison photo between Ronnie, Yates, Arnold, Levrone, Wheeler, etc.....no one makes Ronnie look average; in fact, it's Ronnie who makes everyone else look average.
You have small man vision.
First of all Haney in his prime would wipe the floor with any competitor today even without the added pharma.
Second with the added pharmaceuticals he would make Ronnie look average.
Third attempting to make logic out of my posts is pointless. I am mister logic.
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You have small man vision.
First of all Haney in his prime would wipe the floor with any competitor today even without the added pharma.
Second with the added pharmaceuticals he would make Ronnie look average.
Third attempting to make logic out of my posts is pointless. I am mister logic.
No, I just easily look beyond the shallow noob arguements that are repeated thread after thread and get to bare bones and reality more quickly.
What I already said implies that the Haney of the past would beat many competitors today, but he wouldn't take the top guys....sorry, but he wouldn't....they're simply ahead of a prime Haney.
Again, what I already said implies that by using today's drugs he'd become "an instant threat"....whether he'd be better than Ronnie (or all of the 1st tier pros) I couldn't say, but he would certainly be part of that 1st tier mix (as would Yates and Arnold and others).
No, you're mister peterpuffer.
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This argument has turned into a pissing contest ;D
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No, I just easily look beyond the shallow noob arguements that are repeated thread after thread and get to bare bones and reality more quickly.
What I already said implies that the Haney of the past would beat many competitors today, but he wouldn't take the top guys....sorry, but he wouldn't....they're simply ahead of a prime Haney.
Again, what I already said implies that by using today's drugs he'd become "an instant threat"....whether he'd be better than Ronnie (or all of the 1st tier pros) I couldn't say, but he would certainly be part of that 1st tier mix (as would Yates and Arnold and others).
No, you're mister peterpuffer.
Listen to me boy... Haney's torso dwarfs anybody's onstage today. Point final!
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Listen to me boy... Haney's torso dwarfs anybody's onstage today. Point final!
AHAHAHA!! "boy"...you so fuggin pathetic. Your statement would be correct if we were arguing in 1988.
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AHAHAHA!! "boy"...you so fuggin pathetic. Your statement would be correct if we were arguing in 1988.
The thruth hurts. Get over yourself little guy.
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The thruth hurts. Get over yourself little guy.
Alexxx, you lost the moment you decided to challenge me.
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Alexxx, you lost the moment you decided to challenge me.
Nobody needs to challenge you. You do such a good job at proving your own stupidity it would be useless.
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Nobody needs to challenge you. You do such a good job at proving your own stupidity it would be useless.
Whatever helps you sleep at night sweetheart.
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Many feel that steroid is just a part of the bodybuilding game. Since all are doing it, nobody is cheating, etc. I ask the following questions then as food for thought:
1. If is NOT cheating how come the IFBB in both pro and amatuer rules pages has over 40 pages of rules that say these drugs are NOT allowed?
2. If is not cheating how come one can not freely admit their use in public?
If you have to sneak and lie about somehing, you most likely know it is wrong on some level or you would admit it. Hmmm, why do they think having an affair is considered CHEATING on your spouse?
3. Some contend that steroid and drug use is no more different than various rule changes. This logic is flawed, when a sport changes a rule it is open and everyone is on the same level. With drugs it is murky behind the scenes issue where some are in the loop on various levels.
4. Many in bodybuilding are so used to the drugs as the worst kept secret, we forget how many fans in other sports react when they find out. Barry Bonds is booed each time he comes to bat despite being a great hitter. He is on the verge of breaking a chersihed record yet few respect him or what he has done.
Wan bodybuilding to start gaining public recognition,? Get the drugs out first.
5. If the sport of bodybuilding can only survive with illegal drug use, is it wrth saving as is?
The only way for it NOT to be cheating is to change the current drug laws, be open and honest and then change the rules allowing all bodybuilders to use them on the pro and amatuer level.
It's not cheating, if everyone else is doing the same thing !!???
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Calm down guys
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Just barely have interest in men's bbing. Take away the sauce and you've got male models, which is truly lame.
What would the NFL be like without sauce? They do a great job at coverup? David Boston goes from a 210 WR - 244 with no increase in BF, and they say it's natural.
Put this one on the roid board and let the rage begin.