I would like to inform everyone that score sheets from Santa Susana IFBB PRO Invitational ARE NOT correct!Hey Milos I am the Japanese guy who talked to you when Hide had conversation with me there .
As we THE ATHLETES have requested numerous times to get COMPLETE SCORE SHEETS FROM EACH AND EVERY JUDGE - now is possibly a perfect time to see what is really happenning in the IFBB pro shows when judging is concerned.
I would ask the IFBB to post INDIVIDUAL JUDGING SCORES of every judge and in every round - to prove the point that mistake occurred in counting the points.
Also we need to observe and analyze the judges and the way they are judging...After all if they are trained professionals hired to do the job they should have no problem putting the name on score sheets and stand by those decisions.
In lite of judging debacle at the last years Olympia and numerous other recent shows I would like to point out to mistakes that could be avoided IF we all start being responsible and liable for our actions.
Judges were from all Europe, only 1 was spanish.Estoy completamente acuerdo contigo. Milos esta mosqueado de la perdida de su alumno(Dennis Wolf).
I prefer europeans judges that USA judges, thousand times.
Estoy completamente acuerdo contigo. Milos esta mosqueado de la perdida de su alumno(Dennis Wolf).That might be it. :) Wolf has a great future, but right now he just misses one spectacular feature that would make him stand out. Although some might argue that his taper/waist are that feature.
Hey Milos I am the Japanese guy who talked to you when Hide had conversation with me there .
And you told me that DEnnis should have won.
Sorry Milos. You are the only person who had him first. I have talked to many people there and all of them had Wolf third.
In case, you neglect size and con condition dont you. Dennis do have beatiful proportion and good condition. To be winner,I think he should be IMPRESSIVE. And Wolf was good but not impressive.
Markus and Paco are impressive.
Dont persist in waist line only. BBing is all about muscle!
I would like to inform everyone that score sheets from Santa Susana IFBB PRO Invitational ARE NOT correct!this is bullshit man..what ever the scoresheets look like the placings of this show were right.no judge is that dumb that he miss calculated the scores and by mistake they awarded the wrong winner..plzzz
As we THE ATHLETES have requested numerous times to get COMPLETE SCORE SHEETS FROM EACH AND EVERY JUDGE - now is possibly a perfect time to see what is really happenning in the IFBB pro shows when judging is concerned.
I would ask the IFBB to post INDIVIDUAL JUDGING SCORES of every judge and in every round - to prove the point that mistake occurred in counting the points.
Also we need to observe and analyze the judges and the way they are judging...After all if they are trained professionals hired to do the job they should have no problem putting the name on score sheets and stand by those decisions.
In lite of judging debacle at the last years Olympia and numerous other recent shows I would like to point out to mistakes that could be avoided IF we all start being responsible and liable for our actions.
this is bullshit man..what ever the scoresheets look like the placings of this show were right.no judge is that dumb that he miss calculated the scores and by mistake they awarded the wrong winner..plzzz
I appreciate your comments...I really do.Dont get me wrong. I know Paco personaly and he is my neighbor. But,I was totaly far from that truth. I had problem with choosing Paco or Markus. But,Dennis...never.
Now, when people ask me about my opinion...I say exactly that - MY OPINION.
For me Dennis should have won hands down and Silvio could have been good choice for second...
Markus third ...Paco forth...(second to forth could be in other order as well
Jaroslav Horvat - Thomas Benagli - Eddie Abbew - Hideta Yamagishi - Sergey Chelestov - Marcos Cahon should have be considered for 5 to 10th...
And when I say that I consider EVERYTHING that goes into consideration for judging of the physiques...
Due to the lack of time - as I had trip from hell and arrived 2 AM this morning I would not elaborate on REASONS of how and why I would place these guys...but as soon as I can I certainly would.
Waist line is NOT the only thing I take in consideration....and when you say IMPRESSIVNESS - I was greatly impressed with Paco's conditioning and size - NO QUESTION ABOUT THAT...But equally not impressed with his structure, V-taper, aesthetics, posing display...any many other things.
Paco is a WONDERFUL GUY - one of the best professionals I have seen in the last decades with great human qualities...but this is not popularity contest...
Dont get me wrong. I know Paco personaly and he is my neighbor. But,I was totaly far from that truth. I had problem with choosing Paco or Markus. But,Dennis...never.
I personaly liked Denniss phisic and I wish I could have body like him more than Paco and Rhul. But,judging BBing competition is another story.
Then I tell you the reason why Paco is ahead of Dennis this is clear.
Mass....Paco
Cuts....Paco
Shape.....Wolf.
Paco 2 and Wolf 1.
Its pure math.
As a Japanese I wish Hide well in the competion. But,5th is way exagerated.His legs are great. But,his back is too narrow and didnt have line that Italian had(Also mass). Silvio has same problem. VERY NARROW especialy when he hit doble bi.
Dont get me wrong. I know Paco personaly and he is my neighbor. But,I was totaly far from that truth. I had problem with choosing Paco or Markus. But,Dennis...never.
I personaly liked Denniss phisic and I wish I could have body like him more than Paco and Rhul. But,judging BBing competition is another story.
Then I tell you the reason why Paco is ahead of Dennis this is clear.
Mass....Paco
Cuts....Paco
Shape.....Wolf.
Paco 2 and Wolf 1.
Its pure math.
As a Japanese I wish Hide well in the competion. But,5th is way exagerated.His legs are great. But,his back is too narrow and didnt have line that Italian had(Also mass). Silvio has same problem. VERY NARROW especialy when he hit doble bi.
MORE IMPORTANTLY - I was informing all of you that score sheets need to be collected from each and every judge and than present publicly for everyone to see.dude so you are saying paco is the wrong winner...your crazy man if you think so
#1 - Judges have to start being responsible for their decisions and should (rather they MUST) elaborate on each and every placing.
If I would be a judge and I would put Dennis in first place believe me I would not hide in the shell and not wanting to explain why I saw him better than the others...
I am in very friendly relationship with many guys - but I am also honest with them...
When I could tell Dorian that he got the gift in 1997 and that Nasser should have beat him - I sent him the fax with detailed explanation WHY I thought that (pose for pose, round for round analysis...)
Certainly bodybuilding will always have certain amount of subjectivity...but there are still enough objective facts that could be taken in consideration...
#2 - Officials that were counting scores should realize that even though new judging score sheets don't have separate columns for the ROUND ONE (symmetry) and ROUND TWO (muscularity) - there is the new column (ROUND ONE + ROUND TWO) where scores of first two rounds should be ADDED together and total score of both rounds should be included.
As example - even if every judge gave Paco the first place in both round he would have minimum 10 points.
He officially had 7!!!
Same goes for all the other athletes.
So - it looks to me that instead of adding symmetry points and muscularity points - officials (this time NOT JUDGES) wrote only ONE out of those two rounds - and that is catastrophic mistake...Making possible that scores are inaccurate!
In the history of many sports - when mistake is noticed - many times adjustments/corrections are made AFTER the realisation of the problem.
Even 1997 at the Olympia something like that happen...1998 in Germany I was called to accept 4the place trophy...and Chris Comer was fifth...Just to learn later that mistake was made and I had to return the trophy, get less money...and loose my placing...
I accepted it with no problem...
It is human to make the mistake and we are all entitled for that.
But, when mistake is realized and quite soon - we should all react immediately...
We can start with asking the IFBB to post EVERY SCORE SHEET OF (I believe 7 judges that were judging contest).
I would be more than happy to count the scores for them. ;)
I will also post numerous photos on boards to let everyone judge for themselves...paco won fair and square.personally i wanted big bad ruhl to win but to say things like paco is the wrong winner is totally not acceptable..dude we are talking about an IFBB show.the judges are not that dumb..open up your eyes and lay of the crack pipe..
Milos-
I already have it on my agenda to bring up the lack of individual judges scores ( as was adopted into rule last year) and the scoring system.
There is so much more to judge than only three things you've mentioned...But I think these three staffs are Basic and golden rules arent they?
Width is another thing very important and while you've noticed Hide's lack of width - you didn't realize Phill Heath's lack of width that never stop him for winning every show he has ever entered...Or how about many other great "narrow champions...should we start with Shawn Ray, Flex Wheeler, Lee Priest...etc...etc...)
Again - I am NOT 'fighting" with you - I appreciatte good conversation and this is the topic that I hope many will get involved...
I just have no time at this second - as I am taking the flight with Dennis to Las Vegas in couple of hours...
paco won fair and square.personally i wanted big bad ruhl to win but to say things like paco is the wrong winner is totally not acceptable..dude we are talking about an IFBB show.the judges are not that dumb..open up your eyes and lay of the crack pipe..I think everybody is missing the point here - the scorecards could not have been added correctly (or in the correct way) to get the scores to come out like they did. A 7 for Paco isn't possible.WHATS WRONG WITH YOU MAN!!!!!ARE YOU CRAZY OR SOMETHING
one big central tube with a bunch of little ropes all over it -- not good, none of the primary muscles are discernable.
I would like to inform everyone that score sheets from Santa Susana IFBB PRO Invitational ARE NOT correct!
As we THE ATHLETES have requested numerous times to get COMPLETE SCORE SHEETS FROM EACH AND EVERY JUDGE - now is possibly a perfect time to see what is really happenning in the IFBB pro shows when judging is concerned.
I would ask the IFBB to post INDIVIDUAL JUDGING SCORES of every judge and in every round - to prove the point that mistake occurred in counting the points.
Also we need to observe and analyze the judges and the way they are judging...After all if they are trained professionals hired to do the job they should have no problem putting the name on score sheets and stand by those decisions.
In lite of judging debacle at the last years Olympia and numerous other recent shows I would like to point out to mistakes that could be avoided IF we all start being responsible and liable for our actions.
What a mess for the IFBB. But is anyone really surprised. What sort of goofy serendipity happens to have the Spanish competitor win in Spain when he looks like silly puddy slapped together by a 4 year old. It's like awarding Atwood #1 at the O because he's bigger than Coleman. ::)paco won the show fair and square..damn this milos is buggin me alot with his stupid accusations.just tell me whats the truth..milos has gone insane cuz his boy wolfe placed 3rd...so whats the fuckin reality milos then????
Mass yes, cuts yes...but it's all in the wrong places. It's like his legs are HUGE, but huge as in: one big central tube with a bunch of little ropes all over it -- not good, none of the primary muscles are discernable.
paco won the show fair and square..damn this milos is buggin me alot with his stupid accusations.just tell me whats the truth..milos has gone insane cuz his boy wolfe placed 3rd...so whats the fuckin reality milos then????
Milos-
I already have it on my agenda to bring up the lack of individual judges scores ( as was adopted into rule last year) and the scoring system.
It would be seven if round 1 & 2 were combined.GREAT POST!!!!!!!!!!!! HANDS DOWN!!!!!!!!
Judges would judge each round individually in thier notes then decide the winner over both rounds, and submit one score, thus 7 1st =7
no conspiricy here, other than no individual judges score sheets being displayed.
It's like you're rooting for the guy with the most tendons and veins and least amount of muscle. Any aliens who ate him would get him at the butcher shop for $.29/lb stewing meat only. Nothing of quality.
I already have it on my agenda to bring up the lack of individual judges scores (as was adopted into the rule last year) and the scoring system.
This was adopted into the rule last year? Bob, have you seen the individual score sheet at the Master's Pro which you won? Have you personally requested to see the individual score sheets? Or can anyone view them? Are they for the public or are they just for the individual competitor?
I have yet to see a scoresheeet with the judges individual scores listed...for my show as well any any other pro show...If someone can locate one on the IFBB website, please point me in the right direvtion...maybe I missed it.
Dont get me wrong. I know Paco personaly and he is my neighbor. But,I was totaly far from that truth. I had problem with choosing Paco or Markus. But,Dennis...never.
I personaly liked Denniss phisic and I wish I could have body like him more than Paco and Rhul. But,judging BBing competition is another story.
Then I tell you the reason why Paco is ahead of Dennis this is clear.
Mass....Paco
Cuts....Paco
Shape.....Wolf.
Paco 2 and Wolf 1.
Its pure math.
As a Japanese I wish Hide well in the competion. But,5th is way exagerated.His legs are great. But,his back is too narrow and didnt have line that Italian had(Also mass). Silvio has same problem. VERY NARROW especialy when he hit doble bi.
Milos-
I already have it on my agenda to bring up the lack of individual judges scores ( as was adopted into rule last year) and the scoring system.
paco won the show fair and square..damn this milos is buggin me alot with his stupid accusations.just tell me whats the truth..milos has gone insane cuz his boy wolfe placed 3rd...so whats the fuckin reality milos then????
My boy Dennis as much mine as Paco or any other athlete on the stage.by "ninja turtle" do you mean Dexter, Milos?
With exception of one particular pro (Ninja Turtle) I like everyone else...and try to fight for the athletes.
In my PM I explained you why I think Dennis should have won - and here publicaly I will repeat that if I was a judge Dennis would get my vote...
If you ask me who was most musculary conditioned athlete on that stage I would say - Paco by a mile...
The question is : Milos, if Dennis won and Hide is in 6 or 7th place or something,DO YOU STILL MENTION ABOUT THIS SCORE SHEETS MATTER??????
by "ninja turtle" do you mean Dexter, Milos?And what has Dexter done Milos? Please details! You should feel free to expose any truths that lay hidden.
When you realize that bodybuilding is much more than MASS, CUTS and SHAPE...you might change your mind...Wow that surprised me a lot. You were one of the best because of these 3 combinations.
That is the problem with most of the people - they are watching the show...but NOT REALLY LOOKING and SEEING what is up there on the stage...
Dennis was UNQUESTIONABLE WINNER....
If the contest was about most muscle with best condition - Paco was by far the most superior athlete on the stage...
It would be seven if round 1 & 2 were combined.
Judges would judge each round individually in thier notes then decide the winner over both rounds, and submit one score, thus 7 1st =7
no conspiricy here, other than no individual judges score sheets being displayed.
And what has Dexter done Milos? Please details! You should feel free to expose any truths that lay hidden.
It is not Dexter I am refering to... ;)sounds like Milos is afraid of saying who it is.
If rounds 1 and 2 are combined and Paco won 1st place in every round and from every judge he would have 5+5 points = 10.Mmmm That is good logic.
How did they come up with 7?
He might get 7 in the 1st round and 5 in the second...
sounds like Milos is afraid of saying who it is.It's Clownmali, who else.... ;)