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Getbig Bodybuilding Boards => Steroids Info & Hardcore => Topic started by: Audioslave on September 29, 2006, 03:08:28 PM
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I've heard and read pits and pieces that sub-q test injections are possible and effective. Anyone tried this? Got literature on it?
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no- its made for intramuscular injection- not sub cut- it might be effective - nothing id try though.
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Here's one study...
STABLE TESTOSTERONE LEVELS ACHIEVED WITH SUBCUTANEOUS TESTOSTERONE INJECTIONS
M.B. Greenspan, C.M. Chang
Division of Urology, Department of Surgery, McMaster University,
Hamilton, ON, Canada
Objectives: The preferred technique of androgen replacement has been intramuscular (IM) testosterone, but wide variations in testosterone levels are often seen. Subcutaneous (SC) testosterone injection is a novel approach; however, its physiological effects are unclear. We therefore investigated the sustainability of stable testosterone levels using SC therapy. Patients and methods: Between May and September 2005, we conducted a small pilot study involving 10 male patients with symptomatic late-onset hypogonadism.
Every patient had been stable on TE 200 mg IM for 1 year. Patients were instructed to self-inject with testosterone enanthate (TE) 100 mg SC (DELATESTRYL 200 mg/cc, Theramed Corp, Canada) into the anterior abdomen once weekly. Some patients were down-titrated to 50 mg based on their total testosterone (T) at 4 weeks.
Informed consent was obtained as SC testosterone administration is not officially approved by Health Canada. T levels were measured before and 24 hours after injection during weeks 1, 2, 3, and 4, and 96 hours after injection in week 6 and 8.
At week 12, PSA, CBC, and T levels were measured however; the week 12 data are still being collected.
Results: Prior to initiation of SC therapy, T was 19.14+3.48 nmol/l, hemoglobin 15.8+1.3 g/dl, hematocrit 0.47+0.02, and PSA 1.05+0.65 ng/ml. During the first 4 weeks, there was a steady increase in pre-injection T from 19.14+3.48 to 23.89+9.15 nmol/l (p¼0.1). However, after 8 weeks the post-injection T (25.77+7.67 nmol/l) remained similar to that of week 1 (27.46+12.91 nmol/l). Patients tolerated this therapy with no adverse effects.
Conclusions: A once-week SC injection of 50–100 mg of TE appears to achieve sustainable and stable levels of physiological T. This technique offers fewer physician visits and the use of smaller quantity of medication, thus lower costs. However, the long term clinical and physiological effects of this therapy need further evaluation.
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I've heard and read pits and pieces that sub-q test injections are possible and effective. Anyone tried this? Got literature on it?
I never heard of this.
Test must be taken intramuscular. There are some stuff which can be taken sub-Q, but not Test.
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I never heard of this.
Test must be taken intramuscular. There are some stuff which can be taken sub-Q, but not Test.
According to the study I posted, that's not correct :)
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Well if you read one study this not mean that sub-Q is best way.
I do not know any guy to take test that way. But yes everything is possible. ;)
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First off if you shoot it sub-q you will have to shoot low volumes, 1cc or less, or you risk pockets forming under skin. Yes if you inject into fat it will still get absorbed BUT it will take considerably longer than if you shot it IM. The manufactures say to shoot it IM......why would they not know best? They researched and made the drug.
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Well said Luv. I totaly agree. 8)
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First off if you shoot it sub-q you will have to shoot low volumes, 1cc or less, or you risk pockets forming under skin. Yes if you inject into fat it will still get absorbed BUT it will take considerably longer than if you shot it IM. The manufactures say to shoot it IM......why would they not know best? They researched and made the drug.
You're right, this just doesn't make sense.
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First off if you shoot it sub-q you will have to shoot low volumes, 1cc or less, or you risk pockets forming under skin. Yes if you inject into fat it will still get absorbed BUT it will take considerably longer than if you shot it IM. The manufactures say to shoot it IM......why would they not know best? They researched and made the drug.
I'd rather take Test E via SC shots in two or three pins into fat than one into my quad. And slow absorption results in more stable blood levels. Also if it's Test Suspension being used, that's even better because we all know (those of us who have run a TNE cycle) how quick ED pinning gets old.
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I'd rather take Test E via SC shots in two or three pins into fat than one into my quad.
To each his own
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It would cause bubbles on the skin, plus it will hurt !
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sounds a little sketchy to me to inject test other than (IM) but hey I guess that what trial and error is all about I'd stick to the basics seems to be working for most of us IMO..
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As an expression, SubQ injection of oil based
things like this need to be introduced to dynamic
tissue like (only muscle) to deal with this foreign
matrerial. It seems like it would just sit there,
in a pool and very likely form an abcess
and LARGELY unproductive.
IM injections ARE p r o v e n, have worked for
everyone over the years. Why would you even
want to try something SO unproductive and risky
other just to be different than the mainstream?
SubQ for water based agents that move
or are transported quickly into the system.
Like Hgh, hcg, winny (which i'd drink instead)
NOT for any oil based meds or hormones
I agree with all other wise men that have post...
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I think what it is.....is the guy is scared of the big pins.
Go big or go home :D
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I'd think he's be a litle more scared of having a big fricken Abscess drained by pushing test under his skin instead of into the muscle group. but to each is own...
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I'd rather take Test E via SC shots in two or three pins into fat than one into my quad.
To be honest. You are not ready to run a cycle yet.
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I think what it is.....is the guy is scared of the big pins.
Go big or go home :D
I highly agree! 8)
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To be honest. You are not ready to run a cycle yet.
Yes... because I don't like the feel of a 23g pin in my body, I'm not ready. I put up with it, but it doesn't mean I like it. That's like saying, "I don't like driving a car that gets 15mpg. It gets the job done, but I should never look for a better alternative, because this works."
To be honest. You are not ready to give advice to anyone yet.
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You do not need to worry about giving you advices anymore LOL,...but I am sure I am not the only one here who thinking the same like me 8). I do not want to be rude or anything. You can go with the way as you want, nobody force you to do it the right way. We are here to help each other with suggestions ,..etc but what everyone do is completeley his or her own choice.
Good luck! ;)
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I think if you way bro worked then all of us and the rest of the world would of been doing it your way a long time ago
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I'd think he's be a litle more scared of having a big fricken Abscess drained by pushing test under his skin instead of into the muscle group. but to each is own...
True and that would be the case most likely.
To be honest. You are not ready to run a cycle yet.
True the guy is not even close to ready, especially with the imature attitude.
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yes, because looking for new technology somehow makes me not ready for anything.
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Asking us for help or guidance and
then telling us what you want
to hear - right - wrong -
or indifferent??
WTF? :o
We're all wrong then?
for trying to steer the newbie
in the right (a safer)
direction?
???
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yes, because looking for new technology somehow makes me not ready for anything.
There is nothing wrong with questioning how things are done, that's how we all learn, but at the same time just because the answer to the question is not what you wanted to hear does not mean the answer was not right.
I'd rather take Test E via SC shots in two or three pins into fat than one into my quad. And slow absorption results in more stable blood levels.
There is a problem with this theory, and that problem is that this type of injecting can not provide more stable blood levels, in fact it would be the complete opposite. For example, when you inject directly into fat the level or "speed" of the absorption is imposable to to gauge, in fact it may vary a great deal each and every pin. As mentioned above, there is a good chance some of the liquid may form a pocket around some of the fat, how much? That could vary each injection. Yes, you may not get an infection, and yes, it will eventually absorb, but because of the nature of fatty tissue and its make-up there is absolutely no way you can predict how each injection will be absorbed. Some of these may go perfectly, most will not
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Asking us or help or guidance and
then telling us what you want
to hear - right - wrong -
or indifferent??
WTF? :o
We're all wrong then?
for trying to steer the newbie
in the right (a safer)
direction?
???
Not at all; but if you read the question, I was asking if anyone has tried it, or if anyone has literature. I didn't ask for opinions from people who had not tried it and/or read nothing about it. I wanted something with evidence; no one provides that, simply flaming when I point out that their responses are inadequate because they didn't cover my question. I appreciate the efforts of the well-meaning, but I'd like more than a commonly fed belief. I've read literature where people HAVE--doctors in this case--done SC injections with success. They use gear with different solvents though, so I was curious about the commonly used BA and BB.
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Not at all; but if you read the question, I was asking if anyone has tried it, or if anyone has literature. I didn't ask for opinions from people who had not tried it and/or read nothing about it. I wanted something with evidence; no one provides that, simply flaming when I point out that their responses are inadequate because they didn't cover my question. I appreciate the efforts of the well-meaning, but I'd like more than a commonly fed belief. I've read literature where people HAVE--doctors in this case--done SC injections with success. They use gear with different solvents though, so I was curious about the commonly used BA and BB.
I just have to ask why? Why are you so adamant about doing it this way? Yes challenging convention is good as AJ said it is how we all learn, we are not flaming, just trying to understand your motivation. Why try and reinvent the wheel?
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I just have to ask why? Why are you so adamant about doing it this way? Yes challenging convention is good as AJ said it is how we all learn, we are not flaming, just trying to understand your motivation. Why try and reinvent the wheel?
Well I'm not exactly gung-ho on the idea, but I'm just not against it. I think if it's proven that it can be an effective method of injection, it'd be a lot easier. I mean, I don't bitch about it, but I'm not a fan of IM injections despite having good luck so far (knock on wood) as to never having had a problem. I just figure hey, if it can be done, awesome. If I find it can't, through literature and people's personal experiences, then--just like my IGF this morning--I'll stick with IM.
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I can stick myself with an 18 gauge and it does not hurt at this point, I think you build up a tolarance after years of injecting!
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Holy jesus christ!! You got to be kidding me here. This is one of the dumbest ideas I have ever heard.
Dude people are being way too nice to you IMO, they should be grilling you so you don't get hurt. Go find the person who gave you this idea and commence to bitch-slap them repeatedly. Then slap them again.
If you are the person who thought of it, slap urself. >:(
All joking aside bro, people have given their reasons, which all sound good. Putting anything under the skin is a horrible idea. In fact, when pinning gear that is the LAST thing you want to do, hence the long darts.
If u don't the idea of needle, remember this, there are tons more nerves on the skin than in the muscle. Sub-Q actually hurts more. I can testify, I have shot numerous compounds sub-Q and it sucks.
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No kidding. A-slave just try it and report back to us on the results. Sounds like ur going to try it regardless of what anyone says
Untrue. If I were going to do that, I wouldn't even ask. I simply want documented evidence to support a question I ask. Isn't that what these forums are all about?
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a D E A D thread, for A-slave who IS a deadhead . . .
I cannot believe you contiue with this
f ! ! c k i n g - S T U P I D I D E A . . .
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Untrue. If I were going to do that, I wouldn't even ask. I simply want documented evidence to support a question I ask. Isn't that what these forums are all about?
To be yourself is all that you can do ;)