Author Topic: Sub-q Test injections?  (Read 9485 times)

Audioslave

  • Getbig III
  • ***
  • Posts: 337
Sub-q Test injections?
« on: September 29, 2006, 03:08:28 PM »
I've heard and read pits and pieces that sub-q test injections are possible and effective. Anyone tried this? Got literature on it?

whitewidow

  • Guest
Re: Sub-q Test injections?
« Reply #1 on: September 29, 2006, 03:38:01 PM »
no- its made for intramuscular injection- not sub cut- it might be effective - nothing id try though.

Audioslave

  • Getbig III
  • ***
  • Posts: 337
Re: Sub-q Test injections?
« Reply #2 on: September 29, 2006, 04:30:34 PM »
Here's one study...

STABLE TESTOSTERONE LEVELS ACHIEVED WITH SUBCUTANEOUS TESTOSTERONE INJECTIONS
M.B. Greenspan, C.M. Chang
Division of Urology, Department of Surgery, McMaster University,
Hamilton, ON, Canada

Objectives: The preferred technique of androgen replacement has been intramuscular (IM) testosterone, but wide variations in testosterone levels are often seen. Subcutaneous (SC) testosterone injection is a novel approach; however, its physiological effects are unclear. We therefore investigated the sustainability of stable testosterone levels using SC therapy. Patients and methods: Between May and September 2005, we conducted a small pilot study involving 10 male patients with symptomatic late-onset hypogonadism.

Every patient had been stable on TE 200 mg IM for 1 year. Patients were instructed to self-inject with testosterone enanthate (TE) 100 mg SC (DELATESTRYL 200 mg/cc, Theramed Corp, Canada) into the anterior abdomen once weekly. Some patients were down-titrated to 50 mg based on their total testosterone (T) at 4 weeks.

Informed consent was obtained as SC testosterone administration is not officially approved by Health Canada. T levels were measured before and 24 hours after injection during weeks 1, 2, 3, and 4, and 96 hours after injection in week 6 and 8.

At week 12, PSA, CBC, and T levels were measured however; the week 12 data are still being collected.

Results: Prior to initiation of SC therapy, T was 19.14+3.48 nmol/l, hemoglobin 15.8+1.3 g/dl, hematocrit 0.47+0.02, and PSA 1.05+0.65 ng/ml. During the first 4 weeks, there was a steady increase in pre-injection T from 19.14+3.48 to 23.89+9.15 nmol/l (p¼0.1). However, after 8 weeks the post-injection T (25.77+7.67 nmol/l) remained similar to that of week 1 (27.46+12.91 nmol/l). Patients tolerated this therapy with no adverse effects.

Conclusions: A once-week SC injection of 50–100 mg of TE appears to achieve sustainable and stable levels of physiological T. This technique offers fewer physician visits and the use of smaller quantity of medication, thus lower costs. However, the long term clinical and physiological effects of this therapy need further evaluation.

MarkyM

  • Getbig III
  • ***
  • Posts: 506
Re: Sub-q Test injections?
« Reply #3 on: September 29, 2006, 11:10:10 PM »
I've heard and read pits and pieces that sub-q test injections are possible and effective. Anyone tried this? Got literature on it?

I never heard of this.
Test must be taken intramuscular. There are some stuff which can be taken sub-Q, but not Test.

Audioslave

  • Getbig III
  • ***
  • Posts: 337
Re: Sub-q Test injections?
« Reply #4 on: September 30, 2006, 12:05:20 AM »
I never heard of this.
Test must be taken intramuscular. There are some stuff which can be taken sub-Q, but not Test.

According to the study I posted, that's not correct :)

MarkyM

  • Getbig III
  • ***
  • Posts: 506
Re: Sub-q Test injections?
« Reply #5 on: September 30, 2006, 01:13:25 AM »
Well if you read one study this not mean that sub-Q is best way.
I do not know any guy to take test that way. But yes everything is possible.  ;)


Luv2Hurt

  • Competitors II
  • Getbig V
  • *****
  • Posts: 6036
Re: Sub-q Test injections?
« Reply #6 on: September 30, 2006, 06:24:15 AM »
First off if you shoot it sub-q you will have to shoot low volumes, 1cc or less, or you risk pockets forming under skin.  Yes if you inject into fat it will still get absorbed BUT it will take considerably longer than if you shot it IM.  The manufactures say to shoot it IM......why would they not know best?  They researched and made the drug.

MarkyM

  • Getbig III
  • ***
  • Posts: 506
Re: Sub-q Test injections?
« Reply #7 on: September 30, 2006, 07:54:49 AM »
Well said Luv. I totaly agree.  8)

Arnold jr

  • Getbig V
  • *****
  • Posts: 7247
  • fleshandiron.com
Re: Sub-q Test injections?
« Reply #8 on: September 30, 2006, 11:01:20 AM »
First off if you shoot it sub-q you will have to shoot low volumes, 1cc or less, or you risk pockets forming under skin.  Yes if you inject into fat it will still get absorbed BUT it will take considerably longer than if you shot it IM.  The manufactures say to shoot it IM......why would they not know best?  They researched and made the drug.
You're right, this just doesn't make sense.

Audioslave

  • Getbig III
  • ***
  • Posts: 337
Re: Sub-q Test injections?
« Reply #9 on: September 30, 2006, 02:41:10 PM »
First off if you shoot it sub-q you will have to shoot low volumes, 1cc or less, or you risk pockets forming under skin.  Yes if you inject into fat it will still get absorbed BUT it will take considerably longer than if you shot it IM.  The manufactures say to shoot it IM......why would they not know best?  They researched and made the drug.

I'd rather take Test E via SC shots in two or three pins into fat than one into my quad. And slow absorption results in more stable blood levels. Also if it's Test Suspension being used, that's even better because we all know (those of us who have run a TNE cycle) how quick ED pinning gets old.

Luv2Hurt

  • Competitors II
  • Getbig V
  • *****
  • Posts: 6036
Re: Sub-q Test injections?
« Reply #10 on: September 30, 2006, 04:45:12 PM »
I'd rather take Test E via SC shots in two or three pins into fat than one into my quad.

To each his own

coolioni

  • Getbig III
  • ***
  • Posts: 419
  • Getbig!
Re: Sub-q Test injections?
« Reply #11 on: October 03, 2006, 06:33:03 PM »
It would cause bubbles on the skin, plus it will hurt !

iron270cal

  • Getbig II
  • **
  • Posts: 137
  • The SHOCKER
Re: Sub-q Test injections?
« Reply #12 on: October 07, 2006, 04:11:46 AM »
sounds a little sketchy to me to inject test other than (IM) but hey I guess that what trial and error is all about  I'd stick to the basics seems to be working for most of us IMO..

mem

  • Getbig III
  • ***
  • Posts: 490
  • lifetime athlete
Re: Sub-q Test injections?
« Reply #13 on: October 07, 2006, 09:24:27 AM »
As an expression, SubQ injection of oil based
things like this need to be introduced to dynamic
tissue
like (only muscle) to deal with this foreign
matrerial. It seems like it would just sit there,
in a pool and very likely form an abcess
and LARGELY unproductive.

IM injections ARE p r o v e n, have worked for
everyone over the years. Why would you even
want to try something SO unproductive and risky
other just to be different than the mainstream?

SubQ for water based agents that move
or are transported quickly into the system.
Like Hgh, hcg, winny (which i'd drink instead)
NOT for any oil based meds or hormones

I agree with all other wise men that have post...

1 life 1 liver

Luv2Hurt

  • Competitors II
  • Getbig V
  • *****
  • Posts: 6036
Re: Sub-q Test injections?
« Reply #14 on: October 07, 2006, 10:02:30 AM »
I think what it is.....is the guy is scared of the big pins.

Go big or go home  :D

iron270cal

  • Getbig II
  • **
  • Posts: 137
  • The SHOCKER
Re: Sub-q Test injections?
« Reply #15 on: October 07, 2006, 10:17:12 AM »
I'd think he's be a litle more scared of having a big fricken Abscess drained by pushing test under his skin instead of into the muscle group. but to each is own...

MarkyM

  • Getbig III
  • ***
  • Posts: 506
Re: Sub-q Test injections?
« Reply #16 on: October 07, 2006, 12:29:34 PM »
I'd rather take Test E via SC shots in two or three pins into fat than one into my quad.

To be honest. You are not ready to run a cycle yet.

MarkyM

  • Getbig III
  • ***
  • Posts: 506
Re: Sub-q Test injections?
« Reply #17 on: October 07, 2006, 12:30:34 PM »
I think what it is.....is the guy is scared of the big pins.

Go big or go home  :D

I highly agree!  8)

Audioslave

  • Getbig III
  • ***
  • Posts: 337
Re: Sub-q Test injections?
« Reply #18 on: October 07, 2006, 10:20:29 PM »
To be honest. You are not ready to run a cycle yet.

Yes... because I don't like the feel of a 23g pin in my body, I'm not ready. I put up with it, but it doesn't mean I like it. That's like saying, "I don't like driving a car that gets 15mpg. It gets the job done, but I should never look for a better alternative, because this works."

To be honest. You are not ready to give advice to anyone yet.

MarkyM

  • Getbig III
  • ***
  • Posts: 506
Re: Sub-q Test injections?
« Reply #19 on: October 07, 2006, 11:54:01 PM »
You do not need to worry about giving you advices anymore LOL,...but I am sure I am not the only one here who thinking the same like me  8). I do not want to be rude or anything. You can go with the way as you want, nobody force you to do it the right way. We are here to help each other with suggestions ,..etc but what everyone do is completeley his or her own choice.

Good luck!  ;)

dirtyman_209

  • Getbig II
  • **
  • Posts: 173
Re: Sub-q Test injections?
« Reply #20 on: October 08, 2006, 12:47:14 AM »
I think if you way bro worked then all of us and the rest of the world would of been doing it your way a long time ago

Luv2Hurt

  • Competitors II
  • Getbig V
  • *****
  • Posts: 6036
Re: Sub-q Test injections?
« Reply #21 on: October 08, 2006, 06:04:02 AM »
I'd think he's be a litle more scared of having a big fricken Abscess drained by pushing test under his skin instead of into the muscle group. but to each is own...

True and that would be the case most likely.

To be honest. You are not ready to run a cycle yet.

True the guy is not even close to ready, especially with the imature attitude.

Audioslave

  • Getbig III
  • ***
  • Posts: 337
Re: Sub-q Test injections?
« Reply #22 on: October 08, 2006, 04:19:12 PM »
yes, because looking for new technology somehow makes me not ready for anything.

mem

  • Getbig III
  • ***
  • Posts: 490
  • lifetime athlete
Re: Sub-q Test injections?
« Reply #23 on: October 08, 2006, 04:35:28 PM »

Asking us for help or guidance and
then telling us what you want
to hear - right - wrong -
or indifferent??
WTF?  :o

We're all wrong then?
for trying to steer the newbie
in the right (a safer)
direction?
 ???
1 life 1 liver

Arnold jr

  • Getbig V
  • *****
  • Posts: 7247
  • fleshandiron.com
Re: Sub-q Test injections?
« Reply #24 on: October 08, 2006, 04:36:34 PM »
yes, because looking for new technology somehow makes me not ready for anything.
There is nothing wrong with questioning how things are done, that's how we all learn, but at the same time just because the answer to the question is not what you wanted to hear does not mean the answer was not right.

I'd rather take Test E via SC shots in two or three pins into fat than one into my quad. And slow absorption results in more stable blood levels.
There is a problem with this theory, and that problem is that this type of injecting can not provide more stable blood levels, in fact it would be the complete opposite. For example, when you inject directly into fat the level or "speed" of the absorption is imposable to to gauge, in fact it may vary a great deal each and every pin. As mentioned above, there is a good chance some of the liquid may form a pocket around some of the fat, how much? That could vary each injection. Yes, you may not get an infection, and yes, it will eventually absorb, but because of the nature of fatty tissue and its make-up there is absolutely no way you can predict how each injection will be absorbed. Some of these may go perfectly, most will not