Author Topic: Christianity Out, Islam In  (Read 4347 times)

Colossus_500

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Christianity Out, Islam In
« on: October 11, 2006, 08:28:59 AM »
According To Some Federal Courts And Public Schools: Christianity Out, Islam In
Tue, Oct 10, 2006

ANN ARBOR, MI – A three-week intensive indoctrination into the Islamic faith by a California public school district was allowed to stand by the U. S. Supreme Court last week. A California federal trial court and the Ninth Circuit Court of Appeals had earlier ruled that such indoctrination was constitutional.
The Thomas More Law Center, a national public interest law firm based in Ann Arbor, Michigan, outraged by the obvious double standard in the application of the Establishment Clause jurisprudence by the Ninth Circuit Court of Appeals, which has held “under God” in the Pledge of Allegiance unconstitutional, but allows this kind of Islamic instruction in public schools, had requested that the Supreme Court review the case.

The materials used by Byron Union School District seventh graders stated, “From the beginning, you and your classmates will become Muslims.” Students were instructed to accept as “fact” that Jihad is “a struggle by Muslims against oppression, invasion, and injustice,” and to accept as “truth” that the Koran “is God’s word as revealed to the Prophet Muhammad.” Students were taught the five duties (Pillars of Faith) all Muslims must fulfill and were required to complete a project for each duty, including fasting, in order to pass.

According to Richard Thompson, President and Chief Counsel of the Law Center, “This three-week course was for the most part propaganda that could be used to unwittingly recruit home grown terrorist. Nevertheless, some public schools are allowing this kind of religious instruction under the guise of diversity instruction.”

Impressionable twelve-year-old students were required to take Islamic names, wear identification tags that displayed their new Islamic name and the Star and Crescent Moon. Students also were handed materials that instructed them to “remember Allah always so that you may prosper,” and memorized and recited the “Bismillah” or “In the name of God, the Merciful, the Compassionate,” which students also wrote on banners that were hung on the classroom walls. Students also had to memorize parts of Islamic prayers and verses from the Koran.

Thompson continued, “No federal court would have permitted a class where public school students were taught to ‘become Catholics’ for three weeks, selected a saint’s name, wore identification tags that displayed their new name and a Crucifix, and engaged in Catholic religious practices. Here, however, students were subjected to Islamic religious indoctrination and propaganda and the courts turned a blind eye. The Supreme Court missed an opportunity to demonstrate that the Establishment Clause is to be applied the same to all religions and is not just a weapon to be used only against Christians.”

Edward L. White III, trial counsel with the Thomas More Law Center who handled the case, commented, “I am surprised the Supreme Court did not accept this case for review. The case presented significant issues of national importance concerning public school education and religious indoctrination of children.”

The Thomas More Law Center defends and promotes the religious freedom of Christians, time-honored family values, and the sanctity of human life through education, litigation, and related activities. It does not charge for its services. The Law Center is supported by contributions from individuals, corporations and foundations, and is recognized by the IRS as a section 501(c)(3) organization. You may reach the Thomas More Law Center at (734) 827-2001 or visit our website at www.thomasmore.org.

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© 2004, Thomas More Law Center 

haider

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Re: Christianity Out, Islam In
« Reply #1 on: October 11, 2006, 10:24:05 AM »

According to Richard Thompson, President and Chief Counsel of the Law Center, “This three-week course was for the most part propaganda that could be used to unwittingly recruit home grown terrorist. Nevertheless, some public schools are allowing this kind of religious instruction under the guise of diversity instruction.”
HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!
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Dos Equis

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Re: Christianity Out, Islam In
« Reply #2 on: October 11, 2006, 10:38:14 AM »
According To Some Federal Courts And Public Schools: Christianity Out, Islam In
Tue, Oct 10, 2006


Impressionable twelve-year-old students were required to take Islamic names, wear identification tags that displayed their new Islamic name and the Star and Crescent Moon. Students also were handed materials that instructed them to “remember Allah always so that you may prosper,” and memorized and recited the “Bismillah” or “In the name of God, the Merciful, the Compassionate,” which students also wrote on banners that were hung on the classroom walls. Students also had to memorize parts of Islamic prayers and verses from the Koran.


This is nuts.  My kids wouldn't have spent two seconds in that class.  I can't believe parents didn't just boycott. 

Colossus_500

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Re: Christianity Out, Islam In
« Reply #3 on: October 11, 2006, 10:52:33 AM »
I was kind of surprised by that too.  Maybe they weren't aware of groups like the ACLJ, Alliance Defense Fund, etc.  I'm with you, BB...no way my kids have to go through something like that.

Nordic Superman

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Re: Christianity Out, Islam In
« Reply #4 on: October 11, 2006, 11:10:03 AM »
Sickening and a disgrace.
الاسلام هو شيطانية

loco

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Re: Christianity Out, Islam In
« Reply #5 on: October 11, 2006, 12:03:48 PM »
It's all a political agenda.  Islam is the fastest growing religion in the US today.  Politicians want those votes.  So they cater to the Muslims.

Likewise, Hispanics are the fastest growing population in the US, most of them illegal aliens.  Politicians want those votes.  So now they want to make them all citizens so that they can vote.  These Hispanics don't want all the attention.  All they want is to work their butts off doing jobs that Americans don't want to do because the working conditions are poor and the pay is terrible.  All these people want is to be left alone so that they can work and send money to their families back home.

Politicians cater to the largest crowd for their votes.  This is wrong, but it happens.

haider

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Re: Christianity Out, Islam In
« Reply #6 on: October 11, 2006, 12:53:30 PM »
It was probably part of a religion class- they probably did that for budhism too. But ofcourse, you will take issue with it when it comes to Islam  ::)
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Nordic Superman

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Re: Christianity Out, Islam In
« Reply #7 on: October 11, 2006, 12:58:04 PM »
It was probably part of a religion class- they probably did that for budhism too. But ofcourse, you will take issue with it when it comes to Islam  ::)

Evidence? Looks like you're jumping to conclusions.
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Colossus_500

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Re: Christianity Out, Islam In
« Reply #8 on: October 11, 2006, 01:00:14 PM »
It was probably part of a religion class- they probably did that for budhism too. But ofcourse, you will take issue with it when it comes to Islam  ::)
I'd take issue if it were buddhism, hinduism, mormonism...whatever.  It's an outrageous double-standard that is pushed when it comes to Christianity and other religious beliefs.  It's anything BUT Christianity.   So, pick your poison, bro.  I take issue with the fact that Christianity is persecuted.  

haider

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Re: Christianity Out, Islam In
« Reply #9 on: October 11, 2006, 01:04:27 PM »
Evidence? Looks like you're jumping to conclusions.
That's why I said PROBABLY. It's hard to tell why the students would be required to do those thigns in the 3 week course otherwise. Colossus would have a good point if indeed a similar course wouldn't be allowed for christianity. But I doubt that would be the case.
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Colossus_500

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Re: Christianity Out, Islam In
« Reply #10 on: October 11, 2006, 01:22:29 PM »
That's why I said PROBABLY. It's hard to tell why the students would be required to do those thigns in the 3 week course otherwise. Colossus would have a good point if indeed a similar course wouldn't be allowed for christianity. But I doubt that would be the case.
Cases like this are coming up all over the place.  You just don't hear about them.  Colleges are now into banning Christian clubs because they are too "bias".  There are so many entities who are trying to wipe out Christianity.  Just the other day I read about how a judge in California ruled that Christian-based prison ministries are unconstitutional, regardless of its insurmountable success rates amongst former prisoners who participated in the programs.  You gotta dig deeper than what you are just hearing on television and reading in a magazine.

Nordic Superman

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Re: Christianity Out, Islam In
« Reply #11 on: October 11, 2006, 01:23:03 PM »
That's why I said PROBABLY. It's hard to tell why the students would be required to do those thigns in the 3 week course otherwise. Colossus would have a good point if indeed a similar course wouldn't be allowed for christianity. But I doubt that would be the case.

I accept your apology, don't let it happen again!
الاسلام هو شيطانية

haider

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Re: Christianity Out, Islam In
« Reply #12 on: October 11, 2006, 08:03:03 PM »
I'd take issue if it were buddhism, hinduism, mormonism...whatever.  It's an outrageous double-standard that is pushed when it comes to Christianity and other religious beliefs.  It's anything BUT Christianity.   So, pick your poison, bro.  I take issue with the fact that Christianity is persecuted.  
You do not think that making children aware of different religions is a good thing? Would you not agree that most of the hatred that exists between religious groups is due to ignorace? Let me ask you this.. would you mind if, during the same course, students were to go through the same routine for all major religions, including chrisitianity?

Just seems to me like this thomas guy is bitter for all the wrong reasons. Why would he say this:
According to Richard Thompson, President and Chief Counsel of the Law Center, “This three-week course was for the most part propaganda that could be used to unwittingly recruit home grown terrorist. Nevertheless, some public schools are allowing this kind of religious instruction under the guise of diversity instruction.”
What an ignorant thing to say. It's ignorant people like him that spread hate with disinformation and ignorant comments like these. How can you as a Christian support a guy like this? I'm pretty sure what he says here is against the tenets of christianity.

What I'm saying here is that he's bitter about Islam being taught in school, which by itself isn't a bad thing (if u agree teaching christianity isnt a bad thing either). He really comes off as a bigoted person. Sure, the double standard (if it exists) is a horrible thing, but the point could be made without making ignorant remarks about another religion.
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Nordic Superman

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Re: Christianity Out, Islam In
« Reply #13 on: October 12, 2006, 01:25:08 AM »
What I'm saying here is that he's bitter about Islam being taught in school, which by itself isn't a bad thing (if u agree teaching christianity isnt a bad thing either). He really comes off as a bigoted person. Sure, the double standard (if it exists) is a horrible thing, but the point could be made without making ignorant remarks about another religion.

Sorry cowbow, from an atheists standpoint the moralities of christianity and islam are worlds apart. Kids most certain should not be taught islam.
الاسلام هو شيطانية

Colossus_500

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Re: Christianity Out, Islam In
« Reply #14 on: October 12, 2006, 06:18:55 AM »
Quote from: haider
You do not think that making children aware of different religions is a good thing? Would you not agree that most of the hatred that exists between religious groups is due to ignorace? Let me ask you this.. would you mind if, during the same course, students were to go through the same routine for all major religions, including chrisitianity?
No problem, but are they doing that?  NO!. Hence this is why I take issue with it.  You dealing with hypotheticals, while I'm talking about something that is actually taking place.  They aren't teaching Christianity, they won't allow it.  I can understand that you've got thin skin on this issue because you've been going round and round with some other folks on getbig in defense of Islam.  Understand is my arguments are for Christianity.   As the article states, Christianity is under persecution, not Islam.  So based on that, the author of this article has a right to be upset about that persecution.  True, he lashes out with that statement about "recruitment for terrorists", but I agree with his dissent of how Christianity is being pushed out of what we teach in this country.

Camel Jockey

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Re: Christianity Out, Islam In
« Reply #15 on: October 12, 2006, 05:19:51 PM »
Unacceptable! No faith should be force upon ANYBODY in a country like the United States.

Those school officials should be fired and jailed.  >:(

haider

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Re: Christianity Out, Islam In
« Reply #16 on: October 12, 2006, 08:09:08 PM »
Sorry cowbow, from an atheists standpoint the moralities of christianity and islam are worlds apart. Kids most certain should not be taught islam.
you dont know shit about either religion. Just being honest  :)
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haider

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Re: Christianity Out, Islam In
« Reply #17 on: October 12, 2006, 10:28:29 PM »
No problem, but are they doing that?  NO!. Hence this is why I take issue with it.  You dealing with hypotheticals, while I'm talking about something that is actually taking place.  They aren't teaching Christianity, they won't allow it.  I can understand that you've got thin skin on this issue because you've been going round and round with some other folks on getbig in defense of Islam.  Understand is my arguments are for Christianity.   As the article states, Christianity is under persecution, not Islam.  So based on that, the author of this article has a right to be upset about that persecution.  True, he lashes out with that statement about "recruitment for terrorists", but I agree with his dissent of how Christianity is being pushed out of what we teach in this country.
No, I'm not really dealing with hypotheticals. The argument being made here is that a similar course would not be allowed for Christianity... You use that hypothetical statement to say that Chrisitanity is being persecuted in this case... which is not the same as christianity just not being part of the curriculum... as most people already are christians. Atleast they know the basics of christianity as opposed to Islam, which most people only have misconceptions about (Many cant even distinguish between the terms "Islam" or "Muslim"..I've been asked many times if I was "Islam", LOL).

Bro, you say I have thin skin abt the isssue but you're the one getting worked up over Islam being taught in a school. Getting defensive about christianity when it's not even in question. It remains to be explained how Islam being taught in that particular school has anything to do with Christianity [being persecuted].

No offense to you or any christians with my remarks above. I would like to see the instances in which u believe christianity is under attack in the school systenm. Is it the teaching of christianity? Issues with the pledge of allegiance? Prayer? Intelligent design?
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Nordic Superman

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Re: Christianity Out, Islam In
« Reply #18 on: October 13, 2006, 02:34:39 AM »
you dont know shit about either religion. Just being honest  :)

I know more than you.
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Colossus_500

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Re: Christianity Out, Islam In
« Reply #19 on: October 13, 2006, 07:45:15 AM »
Is it the teaching of Christianity? Issues with the pledge of allegiance? Prayer? Intelligent design?
You've answered your own question, bro.  These are the religious freedoms that have been stripped from Christians.  It's not about Islam.  I'm saying if you're going to have a curriculum for Islam, you need to allow it for all other religions, INCLUDING Christianity.  What I was trying to articulate to you in my last post is that I don't personally attack or fault Islam. Because I don't agree with it, doesn't mean I'm attacking it.  Remember, my words were that even if Mormonism were part of a curriculum, but Christianity is not allowed, I would take issue.  So, it's not a personal issue about your religion.  If you go back and do the historical research on how this country was founded, you'll see that our foundation is solidly based on Judeo-Christian values.  To be more specific, our values are based solely on the laws from the God of Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob.  There is an obsessive movement to do away with those values, to a more pantheistic viewpoint. 

Colossus_500

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Re: Christianity Out, Islam In
« Reply #20 on: October 13, 2006, 12:26:00 PM »
Quote from: haider
I would like to see the instances in which u believe christianity is under attack in the school systenm.

Read this article.

http://www.worldnetdaily.com/news/printer-friendly.asp?ARTICLE_ID=52420

Dos Equis

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Re: Christianity Out, Islam In
« Reply #21 on: October 14, 2006, 01:34:52 AM »
You've answered your own question, bro.  These are the religious freedoms that have been stripped from Christians.  It's not about Islam.  I'm saying if you're going to have a curriculum for Islam, you need to allow it for all other religions, INCLUDING Christianity.  What I was trying to articulate to you in my last post is that I don't personally attack or fault Islam. Because I don't agree with it, doesn't mean I'm attacking it.  Remember, my words were that even if Mormonism were part of a curriculum, but Christianity is not allowed, I would take issue.  So, it's not a personal issue about your religion.  If you go back and do the historical research on how this country was founded, you'll see that our foundation is solidly based on Judeo-Christian values.  To be more specific, our values are based solely on the laws from the God of Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob.  There is an obsessive movement to do away with those values, to a more pantheistic viewpoint. 

I agree there is an assault on traditional, Christian values.  Our society will pay a heavy price if the trend continues. 

OzmO

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Re: Christianity Out, Islam In
« Reply #22 on: October 14, 2006, 09:00:41 AM »
I agree there is an assault on traditional, Christian values.  Our society will pay a heavy price if the trend continues. 

We are already paying the price.  America's youth is wacked.  I deal with it everyday.

But its not an assault on Christian Values, but rather an ineffectiveness of it's teachings, and attractiveness combined with it's unpractical reasoning for not sinning.  In otherwords it's teachings and reasons for aren't based on root reasons for not doing bad things, instead they are based on "fear". 

For example:

"Don't sin becuase you will go to hell"   rather then "don't "kill. steal, commit adultery, lie etc." becuase it will hurt someoen else and that's not good for your soul, Karma, etc., it's not practical or good to do.

People just don't buy that fear of God crap like they used to. Blame our society, or blame a evolution of intellengence it doesn't matter.   

There has to be a different approach to spreading these "values" of "not killing stealing, adultry, lying etc..."  than the same old "don't do it or you'll go to hell"  religous doctrine that includes "control based sins" such as how you dress, talking with ghosts, who's going ot heaven and who's not bull crap.

Dos Equis

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Re: Christianity Out, Islam In
« Reply #23 on: October 14, 2006, 10:40:43 AM »
We are already paying the price.  America's youth is wacked.  I deal with it everyday.

But its not an assault on Christian Values, but rather an ineffectiveness of it's teachings, and attractiveness combined with it's unpractical reasoning for not sinning.  In otherwords it's teachings and reasons for aren't based on root reasons for not doing bad things, instead they are based on "fear". 

For example:

"Don't sin becuase you will go to hell"   rather then "don't "kill. steal, commit adultery, lie etc." becuase it will hurt someoen else and that's not good for your soul, Karma, etc., it's not practical or good to do.

People just don't buy that fear of God crap like they used to. Blame our society, or blame a evolution of intellengence it doesn't matter.   

There has to be a different approach to spreading these "values" of "not killing stealing, adultry, lying etc..."  than the same old "don't do it or you'll go to hell"  religous doctrine that includes "control based sins" such as how you dress, talking with ghosts, who's going ot heaven and who's not bull crap.

I don't see that much.  Morality-based teaching/training isn't about scaring people.  It's about right and wrong.  I have never told my children they will go to hell if they sin.  I talk to them all the time about honor, integrity, honesty, their reputation, kindness, forgiveness, purity, etc.  I do talk about consequences, which is simply a reality.  You have to tell them the consequences of immoral behavior and they ought to be afraid of the consequences, but that doesn't mean their training is based entirely on fear.  Don't you think it would be odd to talk about stealing without talking about the consequence (jail, etc.)?  Why should morality-based training be any different? 

I use real life examples all the time with my kids.  For instance, a couple months ago some kids were killed in a tragic car accident.  One of their friends who was not in the car had asked his mother by phone whether he could go for a ride with his friends.  The mom said no and the kid didn't go.  Obedience saved his life.  We talked about that at the dinner table. 

Another example is a credit card I found on the ground one night in town.  I called the company to let them know so they could cancel the card, then brought it home and cut it up in front of my kids. 

Those are the kinds of lessons I use with them.   

Nordic Superman

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Re: Christianity Out, Islam In
« Reply #24 on: October 14, 2006, 11:11:40 AM »
As much as a hate to say it, for the west to remain the wonderful conception that it is it MUST be continued to be built on the Christian framework it was founded on. Either that, or go the route of atheism China has.

Has Beach Bum said, society will pay a heavy price if the trend continues.
الاسلام هو شيطانية